Transition, Reaction, & Tapping Student Expertise w/ Mary Barr

WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.879 --> 00:00:07.190 You are listening to the Higher Ed Marketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals 2 00:00:07.230 --> 00:00:11.910 in higher education. This show will tackle all sorts of questions related to student 3 00:00:11.949 --> 00:00:16.230 recruitment, don'tor relations, marketing trends, new technologies and so much more. 4 00:00:16.989 --> 00:00:20.789 If you are looking for conversations centered around where the industry is going, this 5 00:00:20.989 --> 00:00:32.820 podcast is for you. Let's get into the show. Welcome to the Higher 6 00:00:32.820 --> 00:00:37.049 Ed Marketer Podcast, where, as always, we interview higher read marketers that 7 00:00:37.130 --> 00:00:41.530 we admire for the benefit and hopefully, the betterment of the entire higher read 8 00:00:41.609 --> 00:00:46.409 community. My name is troy singer and my partner in creation is Bart Taylor, 9 00:00:46.530 --> 00:00:51.359 and today, Bart, we get to talk to Mary Bar from Ball 10 00:00:51.439 --> 00:00:58.000 State University, who is a brand expert within the Higher d community. Can 11 00:00:58.079 --> 00:01:03.439 you tell us what we can hear from her during our conversation? Yeah, 12 00:01:03.560 --> 00:01:07.150 try. I think that I've known married for several years and have had a 13 00:01:07.349 --> 00:01:10.230 have the opportunity to have worked with her, and one of the things I've 14 00:01:10.230 --> 00:01:12.750 always really admired about Mary is that she is such she's got such a pulse 15 00:01:12.909 --> 00:01:19.140 on brand, pulse on storytelling, and I think a lot of the conversation 16 00:01:19.219 --> 00:01:22.540 will talk about today, whether it's about some of the transitions that she's been 17 00:01:22.579 --> 00:01:25.659 in her career and how she's kind of, you know, weathered the storms 18 00:01:25.700 --> 00:01:27.340 of some of these and as well as just, you know, some of 19 00:01:27.420 --> 00:01:32.819 her innovative ways of using, you know, focus groups and research and and 20 00:01:33.010 --> 00:01:36.810 and, you know, in expensive innovative ways. I think everybody could learn 21 00:01:36.810 --> 00:01:38.810 from that. And and then just the idea of, you know, just 22 00:01:38.930 --> 00:01:44.569 kind of how do brands kind of do new things and storytelling around that when 23 00:01:44.569 --> 00:01:47.799 you are doing new things that fit your brand. So it's going to be 24 00:01:47.840 --> 00:01:49.879 a great conversation. I think there's a lot to learn. Yes, and 25 00:01:51.120 --> 00:01:53.480 I don't know Mary as well as you, but what I do know about 26 00:01:53.599 --> 00:01:59.599 her is that she is an idea woman. So let's bring Mary into the 27 00:01:59.719 --> 00:02:07.550 conversation. We are pleased to welcome Mary Bar Chief Marketing Officer at Ball State 28 00:02:07.629 --> 00:02:13.469 University in Muncie, Indiana, to the Higher Ed Marketer podcast. Welcome to 29 00:02:13.750 --> 00:02:16.939 our podcast, land, Mary. Well, thank you, troy and thank 30 00:02:16.979 --> 00:02:22.539 you bar. This is such a thrill and an honor to be invited to 31 00:02:22.659 --> 00:02:27.219 be on your podcast. The pleasure is ours. And before we get started, 32 00:02:27.259 --> 00:02:30.689 if you could give the listeners a little bit about you and your role 33 00:02:30.810 --> 00:02:35.530 at ball state. Well, I would love to. It's Mary Bar I'm 34 00:02:35.610 --> 00:02:39.650 the Chief Marketing Officer at Ball State University and I've been in this role about 35 00:02:39.689 --> 00:02:44.050 about four years. However, I joke I've had a couple of tours of 36 00:02:44.090 --> 00:02:47.240 duty. You're in both states. I was the director of marketing for a 37 00:02:47.360 --> 00:02:53.360 period a left and was recruited away to Roseholman institution, to a technology on 38 00:02:53.400 --> 00:02:57.439 the other side of the state, whereas Vice President of marketing communications there, 39 00:02:57.759 --> 00:03:01.909 and then I returned back to ball state in this current role in two thousand 40 00:03:01.949 --> 00:03:07.590 and fifteen. So been back since then. Very good woman marry. You 41 00:03:07.629 --> 00:03:10.949 and I've known each other for a while and it's it's been a pleasure to 42 00:03:10.990 --> 00:03:15.060 kind of work with you in those different transitions. I know, I think 43 00:03:15.099 --> 00:03:20.139 we met early on through a mutual friend at ball state that I knew before 44 00:03:20.620 --> 00:03:23.460 she arrived at ball state, and so Julie introduced us and then there was 45 00:03:23.539 --> 00:03:27.099 some you know, she end up at Rose Holm and and you were at 46 00:03:27.139 --> 00:03:29.889 Rose Holman and so we did some work together at rose home and and that 47 00:03:30.009 --> 00:03:32.729 I'm proud of. And and so just, you know, just full transparency. 48 00:03:32.889 --> 00:03:37.009 You know you've you and I've worked together before, but I think it's 49 00:03:37.090 --> 00:03:39.770 just interesting that everybody can relate to the fact of a lot of transitions going 50 00:03:39.810 --> 00:03:45.439 on in, you know, in our careers and relationships follow one another two 51 00:03:45.439 --> 00:03:47.159 different places, which I always am grateful for, and it's one of the 52 00:03:47.159 --> 00:03:51.400 reasons why I really try to build relationships as a partner rather than a vendor. 53 00:03:52.319 --> 00:03:54.639 I I've kind of I've known you long enough to know that sometimes these 54 00:03:54.830 --> 00:03:59.550 transitions kind of end up in the middle of other types of transitions, and 55 00:03:59.590 --> 00:04:00.590 I know we talked a little bit about that. Tell us a little bit 56 00:04:00.590 --> 00:04:04.949 about that. Oh my goodness. Yeah, no stranger to transition and of 57 00:04:05.030 --> 00:04:10.979 course it's easier to talk about transition years later, in hindsight, for sure, 58 00:04:11.740 --> 00:04:15.979 but like anything, I feel transition is an education. We can learn 59 00:04:15.979 --> 00:04:20.339 from it, especially as marketers, and kind of leaning into, leaning into 60 00:04:20.379 --> 00:04:24.889 it when we when we can. You know, we're creative people for the 61 00:04:25.250 --> 00:04:29.089 for the generally speaking, for the greater good folks on our marketing teams, 62 00:04:29.529 --> 00:04:32.410 but there is some comfort in routine and following, for example, a brand 63 00:04:32.490 --> 00:04:36.529 style guide. But we can always count on transition. I look at it 64 00:04:36.569 --> 00:04:43.519 as a good thing, especially if you can continue to deliver and stay calm 65 00:04:44.079 --> 00:04:49.480 and learn from the very brilliant people that are around us during those times. 66 00:04:49.839 --> 00:04:54.990 Bart's been my phone of friend a time or two. I had a couple 67 00:04:54.990 --> 00:05:00.149 of presidents at Roseholman. One unfortunately tragically passed away, so there was a 68 00:05:00.230 --> 00:05:05.069 sudden transition there and then, you know, whether it is folks on a 69 00:05:05.189 --> 00:05:13.699 team or retire a campaign or new players that come in, transition always does 70 00:05:13.740 --> 00:05:17.620 seem to be a part of it. The good thing is a brand a 71 00:05:17.899 --> 00:05:24.449 campaign can help identify some of the key players in those transitions. You definitely 72 00:05:24.490 --> 00:05:29.689 need them to be your biggest brand ambassador. Hopefully they're at the table when 73 00:05:29.730 --> 00:05:33.250 a lot of those conversations are happening to help inform it and to help capture 74 00:05:33.250 --> 00:05:38.680 their vision, their strategy and all that too. So yeah, I kind 75 00:05:38.680 --> 00:05:44.160 of joke it's me all the transition. Wherever I go, this transition follows. 76 00:05:44.279 --> 00:05:49.110 But I'm just I say that when I'm teasing. But I think when 77 00:05:49.149 --> 00:05:53.670 we can learn from transition, not be afraid of it, just consider it 78 00:05:53.790 --> 00:05:58.589 another part of a creative evolution, as with anything. Yeah, it's interesting 79 00:05:58.629 --> 00:06:01.069 that you say that. We did a podcast a few months ago with Christy 80 00:06:01.069 --> 00:06:05.379 Jackson. She's at university in North Carolina, and she talked about crisis communications 81 00:06:05.420 --> 00:06:09.740 and obviously crisis communication many times, whether it's a death of a president or 82 00:06:09.819 --> 00:06:14.220 other things, it does require a lot of transition and kind of getting used 83 00:06:14.220 --> 00:06:16.100 to the transition. You know, one of the things that I thought she 84 00:06:16.980 --> 00:06:20.050 kind of articulated well, and I think I hear you in your voice too, 85 00:06:20.170 --> 00:06:23.689 is that, you know, as marketers, as a communicators, we 86 00:06:23.730 --> 00:06:26.490 kind of have to plan that transitions going to happen. I mean we have 87 00:06:26.610 --> 00:06:30.329 to plan and think about those things, that change is going to happen, 88 00:06:30.410 --> 00:06:34.480 transitions going to happen, difficulties are going to happen and and what is it 89 00:06:34.639 --> 00:06:40.639 in our playbook from a brand or from a communication technique that's going to help 90 00:06:40.680 --> 00:06:43.079 us navigate through that? Because, I mean, at the end of the 91 00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:47.629 day, many times those issues and those those challenges end up in the marketing 92 00:06:47.670 --> 00:06:51.389 department, in the Communications Department, and it sounds to me like a lot 93 00:06:51.430 --> 00:06:56.350 of that is just starting to learn to embrace the change, embrace the transitions. 94 00:06:56.389 --> 00:06:59.910 Would you agree with that? Yeah, totally. There's, you know, 95 00:07:00.269 --> 00:07:06.579 reactive and proactive work that's always being done embracing things that are you have 96 00:07:06.660 --> 00:07:11.500 to react to and make it the best you can, but then also being 97 00:07:11.660 --> 00:07:17.290 proactive in moving forward and following some long, longer term strategies, for sure, 98 00:07:17.810 --> 00:07:21.649 and when you have this inside feeling that something's not quite hitting the mark, 99 00:07:21.689 --> 00:07:26.930 always going back to those brand messages, to that brand core, that 100 00:07:27.089 --> 00:07:30.439 brand strategy, and that can usually get you back on but also being able 101 00:07:30.759 --> 00:07:35.720 to at least be open minded when a transition comes or maybe a sudden new 102 00:07:35.759 --> 00:07:43.680 initiative or a sudden new plank that's being added on your plates, when you 103 00:07:43.759 --> 00:07:46.550 can really look at it, see it as an opportunity, seeing how it 104 00:07:46.589 --> 00:07:51.389 can help, maybe fill some gaps of some things that you wanted to do 105 00:07:51.589 --> 00:07:55.829 before. Then just trying to make it work, you know for sure. 106 00:07:56.149 --> 00:08:01.540 So, but I think being reactive, it's comes with a territory. This 107 00:08:01.779 --> 00:08:09.300 past year we have had to be reactive in many ways and everyone has. 108 00:08:09.779 --> 00:08:13.970 But also then just keeping an eye on on the strategic plan, on the 109 00:08:13.050 --> 00:08:18.050 strategic planks within your marketing plan, and having that help you stay the course. 110 00:08:18.610 --> 00:08:22.769 That's great. That's great. Thanks for sharing that being vulnerable about that. 111 00:08:22.769 --> 00:08:26.170 I think sometimes it's a you know, dealing with change is always going 112 00:08:26.170 --> 00:08:28.439 to be vulnerable and then talking about it later, I think, is difficult 113 00:08:28.480 --> 00:08:33.919 too. So thanks for doing that. Try marrying a previous conversation that we 114 00:08:33.080 --> 00:08:39.759 had. We likely discussed an idea and the thought that you had that, 115 00:08:39.080 --> 00:08:46.710 similarly as you see in corporate larger brands, how they collaborate brands with one 116 00:08:46.750 --> 00:08:50.590 another for a mutual benefit or for a synergy, how we can do that 117 00:08:50.750 --> 00:08:54.820 within higher education. I would really like to go back into that conversation with 118 00:08:54.940 --> 00:09:00.820 you and get your thoughts around it or any type of initiatives that you think 119 00:09:01.139 --> 00:09:05.980 could come out of something a collaboration within higher education. No, no, 120 00:09:07.139 --> 00:09:11.450 for sure. You had asked me about like what kind of trends I follow 121 00:09:11.450 --> 00:09:16.649 or in marketing and industry, and I seem to love to follow maybe the 122 00:09:16.730 --> 00:09:24.009 greater industries, keeping an eye on music and fashion, the arts, and 123 00:09:24.279 --> 00:09:28.159 you know, there's been a lot of collaborations by some such by celebrities and 124 00:09:28.480 --> 00:09:33.000 consumer brands, for sure, and it's kind of fun. A lot of 125 00:09:33.080 --> 00:09:39.549 them have a short time frame, but they're not just cool but they also 126 00:09:39.789 --> 00:09:46.029 elevate both brands, give introduced new markets, new audiences to each and you 127 00:09:46.070 --> 00:09:50.950 know, often so I've been looking at that. Just thinking gets interesting. 128 00:09:50.429 --> 00:09:56.220 We all know sometimes higher it could be a beat behind consumer marketing. But 129 00:09:56.700 --> 00:10:01.820 make no mistake, we've got audiences, we've got consumers, we got people 130 00:10:01.820 --> 00:10:07.929 who shop and compare our compare prices, compare our myriad of things. So 131 00:10:07.570 --> 00:10:13.210 that's something I've been kind of looking at and I know a lot of universities 132 00:10:13.210 --> 00:10:18.570 are no stranger to, for example, lending a speaker series or a naming 133 00:10:18.649 --> 00:10:24.039 opportunities. Universities do things like that all the time and kind of a donor 134 00:10:24.200 --> 00:10:28.120 relation way. So so maybe there are some aspects of that and Higher Ed. 135 00:10:28.279 --> 00:10:31.840 But you know what are some of those things we can learn from, 136 00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:35.470 some of the things that attract our attention as consumers as we look at our 137 00:10:35.509 --> 00:10:41.950 favorite brands. We're consumers as well. We have to keep our eyes open 138 00:10:43.029 --> 00:10:48.149 for the things that attract us as consumers or marketers. But I may be 139 00:10:48.350 --> 00:10:52.940 interested in the same brands that I that I follow and that I'm loyal to, 140 00:10:54.220 --> 00:10:58.740 and they may have a partnership with musical artists and that opens my eyes 141 00:10:58.059 --> 00:11:03.179 to perhaps following that individual as an artist. And so I think it's it's 142 00:11:03.730 --> 00:11:09.610 good for us to say what's attractive to us, things that we enjoy or 143 00:11:09.169 --> 00:11:13.490 open our eyes with our favorite brands that we follow. I like that I 144 00:11:13.529 --> 00:11:16.490 did marry because I think that, as you said sometimes, and I've said 145 00:11:16.490 --> 00:11:18.960 this many times cut, you know, higher ad is a little bit of 146 00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:22.039 a beat behind. You know sometimes I estimated, you know, five to 147 00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:24.559 ten years, depending on what's going on, and there's, you know, 148 00:11:24.679 --> 00:11:30.159 and I understand that. I mean we're higher Ed, has been and for 149 00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:35.309 hundreds of years. I think that only in the last ten or fifteen years 150 00:11:35.230 --> 00:11:41.230 have they really had to start thinking differently and behaving differently because, I mean, 151 00:11:41.269 --> 00:11:43.389 I mean I'm a Gen xer. I think we all are here on 152 00:11:43.669 --> 00:11:46.940 this podcast is, as far as the three of us, and things changed 153 00:11:48.179 --> 00:11:52.460 kind of after we had our college experience and as we started becoming professionals ourselves. 154 00:11:54.179 --> 00:11:56.100 The world kind of shifted a little bit. I don't know if it 155 00:11:56.100 --> 00:11:58.899 was when millennials came along or if it was when, you know, it 156 00:11:58.980 --> 00:12:01.649 went from the three channels we were used to to cable and everything else. 157 00:12:01.690 --> 00:12:05.690 I mean a lot of things shift at the Internet came online in the mid 158 00:12:05.169 --> 00:12:11.009 S, and so the world shifted and I think that the the consumer brands 159 00:12:11.049 --> 00:12:13.009 the retailers, a lot of other places kind of kept up with that shift. 160 00:12:13.049 --> 00:12:18.000 I think higher ed kind of continued to ride the way of that they 161 00:12:18.039 --> 00:12:20.759 had been on, not realizing that they needed to kind of shift as well 162 00:12:20.840 --> 00:12:24.919 and do the transitions that we were talking about. And so I think sometimes 163 00:12:24.960 --> 00:12:31.669 it's difficult for academia to accept that, you know, our perspective students or 164 00:12:31.750 --> 00:12:35.429 consumers, they have choice, they are shopping, as you've said. I 165 00:12:35.509 --> 00:12:37.669 mean there's there's a lot of things that I think that I remember being in 166 00:12:39.110 --> 00:12:41.230 meetings in the mid S and I would use the term sales or I would 167 00:12:41.230 --> 00:12:45.620 use the term shopping or I would use the term consumer, and, you 168 00:12:45.740 --> 00:12:48.580 know, you needed to pick up the administrators off the floor because, I 169 00:12:48.659 --> 00:12:52.740 mean, they were they were offended by that. And we are we are 170 00:12:52.740 --> 00:12:56.299 academia. We do not talk about things like that. That doesn't apply to 171 00:12:56.379 --> 00:12:58.649 us. I think that's changed, I think that's shifting and I think that's 172 00:12:58.690 --> 00:13:01.929 really healthy, but I think that it still comes down to the fact that 173 00:13:03.169 --> 00:13:05.529 we were still a little bit slow. I was talking to a client the 174 00:13:05.610 --> 00:13:11.769 other day about their social media and missed opportunities because they're messaging wasn't crafted perfectly 175 00:13:11.879 --> 00:13:16.879 and it wasn't. It didn't go through the entire system that they wanted to 176 00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:20.799 and they missed opportunities because they took him three or four days to reply to 177 00:13:20.919 --> 00:13:24.720 something that would needed to be replied to in an hour, especially, you 178 00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:28.950 know, social justice issue. That was the topic at that point. So 179 00:13:28.110 --> 00:13:31.590 we've got a kind of I think it it's a bigger topic. We've got 180 00:13:31.669 --> 00:13:35.590 to be able to kind of adapt and lean into that more. But I 181 00:13:35.669 --> 00:13:39.669 think it comes back to the fact, like you said, paying attention to 182 00:13:39.830 --> 00:13:43.019 those other industries, paying attention to consumer brands and retail and seeing what's going 183 00:13:43.100 --> 00:13:46.259 on. I mean just just paying attention to what happened on that tick tock 184 00:13:46.299 --> 00:13:52.419 video last summer where guys writing a skateboard and drinking ocean spray and and listening 185 00:13:52.700 --> 00:13:56.809 over to fleetwood Mac. Okay, all of a sudden you've got two big 186 00:13:56.889 --> 00:14:00.169 brands that jumped onto that and they did it well. Mean, ocean spray 187 00:14:00.809 --> 00:14:03.409 really did that well, they partnered well, they kind of took care of 188 00:14:03.649 --> 00:14:07.210 that man and they did it well. And I mean obviously he had his 189 00:14:07.289 --> 00:14:11.679 fifteen minutes of glory and fame and obviously it really impacted fleetwood, Mac and 190 00:14:11.759 --> 00:14:15.840 make fleetwood kind of responded in kind and there was a lot of really good 191 00:14:15.879 --> 00:14:18.000 things that happened out of that. That, I think, is we, 192 00:14:18.120 --> 00:14:22.559 as hired marketers, can see how brand's, how influencers, how others kind 193 00:14:22.600 --> 00:14:26.149 of play in the market place and and I use the word play intentionally, 194 00:14:26.269 --> 00:14:31.149 because sometimes it does take play more than it takes work or overthinking something, 195 00:14:31.190 --> 00:14:37.350 and I think that that collaboration between brands is something that we have to start 196 00:14:37.429 --> 00:14:41.259 playing with rather than coming up with this perfect solution. I mean, in 197 00:14:41.379 --> 00:14:43.340 a lot of ways higher it is kind of already created that way, but 198 00:14:43.419 --> 00:14:48.019 we call it articulation agreements. How can we start talking about it more? 199 00:14:48.139 --> 00:14:52.500 Is Collaboration and I find that fascinating to kind of think about that. Yeah, 200 00:14:52.889 --> 00:14:56.529 and you know, that leads me to think Bart two of we've got 201 00:14:56.610 --> 00:15:01.169 some great experts around us, and that's our students, and I like to 202 00:15:01.250 --> 00:15:07.679 turn off into, for example, our tour guys or are admissions for guides, 203 00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:11.480 their experts. They have their finger on the pulse. If we need 204 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:16.720 them to help us articulate some things, let's have a focus group of five 205 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:22.350 with with them or have them film something for us or give us some guidance 206 00:15:22.389 --> 00:15:26.470 on some things. Give us some guidance on swag. You know, Oh, 207 00:15:26.590 --> 00:15:31.269 it's not swag, is merch. They call it merge exactly. Again, 208 00:15:31.549 --> 00:15:37.220 the differences in age. So but yeah, and I think for us 209 00:15:37.419 --> 00:15:43.379 to enjoy that and to just sometimes they can. Hey, they're the extruits. 210 00:15:45.139 --> 00:15:48.539 They know what's attracting them and if we as them, they are very 211 00:15:50.129 --> 00:15:54.210 ready to know. They they can articulate brands. They know how to make 212 00:15:54.250 --> 00:16:00.610 their own brand with their own blogs and their key messages and their look. 213 00:16:00.009 --> 00:16:06.399 So our current students are vary astute to their presentation and so I think when 214 00:16:06.440 --> 00:16:11.240 we can tap into them, or I joke about having my little posse around 215 00:16:11.399 --> 00:16:14.799 me. I had that at Rose Holman. I was not an engineer, 216 00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:18.710 but I had a bunch of engineering students around me and I had about four 217 00:16:18.710 --> 00:16:22.950 or five students I'm tried to create a relationship with that. I could bounce 218 00:16:22.990 --> 00:16:26.429 some ideas off of them from a branding perspective and and all that, if 219 00:16:26.429 --> 00:16:33.179 it would kind of meet their needs, since they have a very specific viewpoint 220 00:16:33.220 --> 00:16:37.500 as they were assessing brands and their high right options. Yeah, that's great 221 00:16:37.539 --> 00:16:41.059 and I think that even doing that you're recognizing them. A lot of them 222 00:16:41.059 --> 00:16:45.659 are influencers in their in their own right. You know, we talked about 223 00:16:45.659 --> 00:16:48.330 influence marketing and but I think that, you know, social media especially has 224 00:16:48.330 --> 00:16:52.409 kind of elevated that, you know, whether it's Youtuber, instagram. You 225 00:16:52.490 --> 00:16:55.610 know, I was talking to one one school. I was at a conference 226 00:16:55.610 --> 00:17:00.570 and they were kind of explaining how they were using instagram and influencer marketing with 227 00:17:00.690 --> 00:17:03.480 some of their students who had some of these students had tenzero followers in and 228 00:17:03.599 --> 00:17:08.519 of themselves as freshman in college. Well, that's the definition of influencer marketing. 229 00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:12.799 And so how do you recruit those students to coexist with your brand? 230 00:17:12.920 --> 00:17:15.589 You know, partner with your brand, partner with the brand of the school, 231 00:17:17.109 --> 00:17:19.430 because obviously they are a consumer of that brand. And so yeah, 232 00:17:19.470 --> 00:17:22.910 I think that's a that's a really interesting thought, Mary, and I know 233 00:17:23.029 --> 00:17:27.190 that even in our preconversation kind of leading into that, you talked about you 234 00:17:27.430 --> 00:17:30.579 just talked a little bit about focus groups and pulling some people together and you 235 00:17:30.700 --> 00:17:34.339 do that a little bit more around orientation for sometimes. Tell us a little 236 00:17:34.339 --> 00:17:38.099 bit about that and I know for sure, and I know many of your 237 00:17:38.180 --> 00:17:42.220 guests on your show or no stranger to research and analytics, and that's that's 238 00:17:42.380 --> 00:17:48.849 great. I know we got to have that. But almoso tradition that we 239 00:17:48.009 --> 00:17:55.849 do here is in during incoming for incoming students, during during orientation. Boy, 240 00:17:56.049 --> 00:18:00.720 here are people who have just been on a constant flow of marketing from 241 00:18:02.519 --> 00:18:06.759 ball state and others, and so we always just want to have a check 242 00:18:06.839 --> 00:18:11.680 step with them during orientation, incoming freshmen and their families. And Yeah, 243 00:18:11.869 --> 00:18:17.910 obviously it worked. So we're learning from the folks that it was effective with, 244 00:18:18.269 --> 00:18:22.430 and so every year we have a different agenda with with them. I'm 245 00:18:22.509 --> 00:18:26.900 doing it right now. I've already conducted three groups and have three more groups 246 00:18:26.980 --> 00:18:32.259 and the upcoming weeks. And you know, we try to get PREPS, 247 00:18:32.380 --> 00:18:36.900 current messages in front of them to see what resonates. Perhaps it's a new 248 00:18:37.019 --> 00:18:44.650 program for incoming freshman or for the first year experience. That is a trend 249 00:18:44.809 --> 00:18:48.650 in high right now, how to brand a first year experience so students meet 250 00:18:48.769 --> 00:18:52.049 their milestones during the year. So as we're rolling out some new things, 251 00:18:52.089 --> 00:18:59.279 asking at audience, I've even showed them billboards and TV commercials and things along 252 00:18:59.359 --> 00:19:03.359 those lines just for them to rate what their favorite ones are and have the 253 00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:08.079 conversation around it, and then that's always helpful when perhaps leadership or our internal 254 00:19:08.279 --> 00:19:12.470 clients have, you know, really love something and you're like, well, 255 00:19:12.509 --> 00:19:17.309 you know, what are our brand of student? They really like to see 256 00:19:17.789 --> 00:19:19.910 this type of thing, and when we can point to that and have some 257 00:19:19.990 --> 00:19:23.779 of the narrative around it, sometimes that's all we need to kind of change 258 00:19:23.859 --> 00:19:26.339 course a little bit because, again, yeah, they're the experts. They've 259 00:19:26.380 --> 00:19:30.940 just been on the receiving end of a lot of our work. That's great 260 00:19:30.940 --> 00:19:33.740 and I what I like about that and when we talked earlier, I just 261 00:19:33.859 --> 00:19:37.220 thought it was not only is it a build and check in and just kind 262 00:19:37.220 --> 00:19:41.329 of that process of, you know, there's already a group of people there 263 00:19:41.369 --> 00:19:44.849 that we can talk to and I think sometimes when people hear the word focus 264 00:19:44.930 --> 00:19:49.450 groups they think of think of two way mirrors and dark rooms and thirty seven 265 00:19:49.450 --> 00:19:52.359 people there that, you know, it's costs a lot of money, but 266 00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:56.720 I think the way that you're kind of approaching it, you don't have to 267 00:19:56.920 --> 00:19:59.960 say, well, we don't have the resources to do focus groups. Well, 268 00:20:00.039 --> 00:20:03.079 you've got the focus group already there. You just have to pull them 269 00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:07.230 together and ask them, and I think sometimes just that you know that that's 270 00:20:07.269 --> 00:20:10.710 that's a vulnerable thing to ask for somebody's opinion and be willing to hear it. 271 00:20:11.269 --> 00:20:14.349 I think sometimes that keeps us from doing it and we use excuses of 272 00:20:14.549 --> 00:20:18.430 cost and effort and everything else. And so I think that I like what 273 00:20:18.549 --> 00:20:21.460 you're saying. It's being vulnerable with ourselves to be able to say we might 274 00:20:21.500 --> 00:20:26.019 not know everything, but we do have some people that know more. Right 275 00:20:26.220 --> 00:20:32.099 now, frankly, it's really not that expensive. Sometimes it's just the cost 276 00:20:32.140 --> 00:20:34.809 of lunch and t shirt. And I'll tell you what, when you offer 277 00:20:34.849 --> 00:20:38.849 a free lunch and a t shirt, many people raise their hands and need 278 00:20:38.970 --> 00:20:44.809 those orientation leaders to help just get the amount that we need. And but 279 00:20:44.849 --> 00:20:48.650 yeah, keeping it small to the one we had the other day was to 280 00:20:48.849 --> 00:20:52.279 students and at first I thought, Oh boy, but boy, we could 281 00:20:52.279 --> 00:20:56.839 really drill in and they were fantastic and it was very enlightening and I brought 282 00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:03.079 some piece of feedback back that day and leadership changed a message, you know, 283 00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:06.309 over it, because we were kind of sort of about something. So 284 00:21:06.430 --> 00:21:11.829 so it's inexpensive. It's right in front of us and for me it's also 285 00:21:11.589 --> 00:21:17.589 educational and humbling to people that I work with. You know I often need 286 00:21:17.630 --> 00:21:22.619 a note taker and if I could have someone either on the team or an 287 00:21:22.700 --> 00:21:26.500 internal client help take notes for them to hear things firsthand, to I think 288 00:21:26.500 --> 00:21:30.460 it's helpful for them and then their ambassadors of the research and all that. 289 00:21:30.700 --> 00:21:36.410 And so it has come at least at ball state people even through the year 290 00:21:36.410 --> 00:21:38.769 SEC ay. Well, need to test that during focus groups and I love 291 00:21:38.809 --> 00:21:44.730 it when some of our internal colleagues are mentioning it and instead of us, 292 00:21:44.769 --> 00:21:48.039 always bring it up to so it is an expensive it's right under our nose 293 00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:55.079 and it is a great check step, positive or negative, constructive criticism that 294 00:21:55.119 --> 00:21:59.440 we can learn. That's great. That's very good. Sounds like you get 295 00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:04.750 a lot of pertinent information on your marketing through that research. Very inexpensively for 296 00:22:04.869 --> 00:22:08.869 sure. Mary, thank you for everything that you've shared with us today, 297 00:22:10.109 --> 00:22:12.269 but again, I can be a little greedy. So before we close, 298 00:22:12.750 --> 00:22:18.339 whether it be one nugget or idea that we didn't get a chance to mention 299 00:22:18.660 --> 00:22:22.940 that you think could be applicable for other marketers out there, oh gosh. 300 00:22:22.220 --> 00:22:26.059 Well, we did cover a lot and I can talk about marketing and I 301 00:22:26.259 --> 00:22:32.089 read and ball state all day. But one thing that's maybe a little random, 302 00:22:32.329 --> 00:22:36.809 I guess, is a little bit about recycling and recycling our vinyl. 303 00:22:37.450 --> 00:22:41.210 I don't know about other folks but under my perview is a lot of campus 304 00:22:41.250 --> 00:22:47.880 banners and billboards and a lot of vinyl on campus, even some of the 305 00:22:47.920 --> 00:22:52.359 things in the athletic facilities. You know, we generate a lot of that. 306 00:22:52.960 --> 00:22:59.829 Of course all universities have good recycling protocols in place, but it's still 307 00:23:00.109 --> 00:23:04.470 plastic after all. So one of the things we have done here, is 308 00:23:06.269 --> 00:23:11.069 here at ball state, is we took one of our vinyl banners that was 309 00:23:11.230 --> 00:23:18.299 displayed very prominently in the Indianapolis International Airports During our centennial celebration and we took 310 00:23:18.339 --> 00:23:23.220 that down, we cut it up, we had some experts at a local 311 00:23:23.299 --> 00:23:30.730 company make them into little zipped pouches that we then used as gifts and we 312 00:23:30.809 --> 00:23:34.009 use with a little card in them with a little bit of the story that 313 00:23:34.170 --> 00:23:41.039 this was a centennial banner that hung in the airport and it's recycled and hopefully 314 00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:45.839 you can have a little piece of our untilnal celebration and then gave a little 315 00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:51.319 life and another nice little story that we could pass on. So he passed 316 00:23:51.400 --> 00:23:56.309 those out some key downers and some key folks who worked really closely with the 317 00:23:56.390 --> 00:24:02.269 campaign, the centennial campaign, as a thank you gift. That is a 318 00:24:02.349 --> 00:24:06.589 wonderful idea, as I think about it, as we produce things like that 319 00:24:06.869 --> 00:24:12.700 for other colleges, universities, finals everywhere, and I hope someone else skills 320 00:24:12.779 --> 00:24:17.980 that nugget. If I may ask, was that you or someone on your 321 00:24:17.980 --> 00:24:21.619 campus, a student? How did that idea come about? Yeah, no, 322 00:24:22.420 --> 00:24:23.890 I've been kind of tuned in. I don't know if I should name 323 00:24:23.930 --> 00:24:27.809 the company, but up, it's a nonprofit. It Indianapolis, Indiana. 324 00:24:29.569 --> 00:24:32.690 I've had a relationship with them through the years just through some of my other 325 00:24:32.769 --> 00:24:41.440 volunteer work and pop stands for people for urbidden progress and they do a lot 326 00:24:41.480 --> 00:24:47.279 of that work with sports outlets and other entities that do produce a lot of 327 00:24:47.319 --> 00:24:53.910 vinyl. So they are a really wonderful recycler of materials and so I had 328 00:24:53.910 --> 00:25:00.470 a relationship with them before and so I was always seeing vinyl and I've always 329 00:25:00.470 --> 00:25:03.549 wanted to do a project with them and I was thrilled that I could. 330 00:25:03.549 --> 00:25:07.259 At the time one of their founders was of all stigalum, so that add 331 00:25:07.660 --> 00:25:14.019 added to the story as well. But yeah, there's they are amazing nonprofit 332 00:25:14.460 --> 00:25:18.859 located at Indianapolis. I'm sure there's some other folks or sometimes even internally with 333 00:25:19.140 --> 00:25:26.730 a pail design program fashion design. Sometimes you may have some resources right into 334 00:25:26.730 --> 00:25:30.970 your nose as well and again adds to the story for something that might be 335 00:25:30.049 --> 00:25:36.480 kind of fun and unusual for a fundraising campaign or a special event. Thank 336 00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:40.240 you, Mary. That was a wonderful example. If someone would like to 337 00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:44.599 contact you about that idea or anything else, what would the best way for 338 00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:48.480 them to get in touch with you be? Gosh, probably my old school 339 00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:53.990 email. I'm easy to find. Em Bar and Bar at bsudded you. 340 00:25:56.390 --> 00:26:00.910 Thank you very much for your time and all the wonderful wisdom that you gave 341 00:26:00.990 --> 00:26:03.470 us today. Barred, before we get out of here, do you have 342 00:26:03.630 --> 00:26:07.299 any parting words? Yeah, I just wanted to thank Mary and for all 343 00:26:07.339 --> 00:26:11.140 that she's offered us today and I think that knowing her for so long as 344 00:26:11.180 --> 00:26:15.660 I have and just in this conversation, I think everyone can kind of understand 345 00:26:15.700 --> 00:26:18.650 and know that she's a brand expert and I think one of the expertise of 346 00:26:19.170 --> 00:26:23.369 recognizing that and somebody who really understands brand is how willing they're able to kind 347 00:26:23.369 --> 00:26:27.250 of talk about stories, and I love the fact that a lot of what 348 00:26:27.329 --> 00:26:32.049 we talked about today, whether it was the use of some focus groups, 349 00:26:32.170 --> 00:26:34.920 whether it's about, you know, the stories of some of the transitions that 350 00:26:36.039 --> 00:26:38.799 she's been a part of and what that means and how to how to navigate 351 00:26:38.960 --> 00:26:42.440 that. The idea of, you know, what stories can do brands together 352 00:26:42.599 --> 00:26:45.920 tell and even down to the story of, you know, hey, we 353 00:26:47.039 --> 00:26:49.230 want to recycle something, but not only do we want to recycle it because 354 00:26:49.230 --> 00:26:52.349 it's the right thing, but how can that then support our brand, because 355 00:26:52.549 --> 00:26:56.710 our brand is all about empowering people. It's about, you know, ball 356 00:26:56.750 --> 00:26:59.829 states brand is a lot more than just recruiting students. There's a lot of 357 00:26:59.990 --> 00:27:03.339 things that Mary has kind of talked about today that I think is reflected in 358 00:27:03.940 --> 00:27:07.700 her conversations and things that they're doing a ball state that go deeper and telling 359 00:27:07.740 --> 00:27:11.460 those stories to help articulate the brand, I think is so important and I 360 00:27:11.500 --> 00:27:15.500 think that Mary does a great job of doing that, whether it's through a 361 00:27:15.539 --> 00:27:18.250 billboard that you see on interstate sixty nine or whether it's just through this conversation 362 00:27:18.329 --> 00:27:23.009 about, you know, the recycled elements and utilizing a local nonprofit to do 363 00:27:23.170 --> 00:27:27.289 that and making those into meaningful gifts for donors. I think there's a there's 364 00:27:27.289 --> 00:27:30.960 a chance for all of us to tell our story better, and if you 365 00:27:30.039 --> 00:27:33.480 want to learn how to do that, I would observe what's going on a 366 00:27:33.559 --> 00:27:34.759 ball state. And so those are those are some really good ideas. So 367 00:27:34.920 --> 00:27:37.960 thank you again, Mary. Oh Gosh. Well, thank you bart and 368 00:27:38.039 --> 00:27:41.799 thank you troy, and thank you for all the work that you both do 369 00:27:41.160 --> 00:27:49.029 in our industry and help us look great our pleasure and want to remind everyone 370 00:27:49.190 --> 00:27:56.109 that the sponsors of this podcast. Number one is barts company, Kaylor solutions 371 00:27:56.509 --> 00:28:02.460 and education, marketing and branding agency and by Think, patented a marketing, 372 00:28:02.539 --> 00:28:07.819 execution, printing and mailing provider of higher it solutions. On behalf of Bart 373 00:28:07.859 --> 00:28:14.769 Kaylor and myself, troy singer, thank you for joining us. You've been 374 00:28:14.809 --> 00:28:18.930 listening to the Higher Ed Marketer. To ensure that you never miss an episode, 375 00:28:18.170 --> 00:28:22.369 subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you're listening with 376 00:28:22.450 --> 00:28:26.849 apple PODCASTS, we'd love for you to leave a quick rating of the show. 377 00:28:26.849 --> 00:28:30.720 Simply tap the number of stars you think the podcast deserves. Until next 378 00:28:30.720 --> time,