Content is where marketing is headed.
How can marketers in higher education mass produce content that is relevant, applicable, and interesting to prospective students?
In this episode of The Higher Ed Marketer, Bart Caylor, President & Founder at Caylor Solutions Inc, and Troy Singer, Senior Account Executive at Think Patented, chat with
Dan Freeborn, Assistant Director of Marketing and Enrollment at Northern Michigan University, about his unique approach to content.
They also talked about:
- How to manage time and resources well in content creation
- What types of content perform best in higher ed
- How to mass produce content with a small team
- What information to collect and how to use it for promotion
Know of a higher education marketing change agent you’d like to hear on the show? Does your university have an interesting story to be featured? Connect with Bart Caylor or Troy Singer. If you’re not on LinkedIn, check the Caylor Solutions or Think Patented websites instead!
To hear more interviews like this one, subscribe to The Higher Ed Marketer on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your preferred podcast platform.
The Higher Ed Marketer podcast is brought to you by Caylor Solutions, an Education Marketing, and Branding Agency.
Transcript
WEBVTT
1
00:00:02.879 --> 00:00:07.190
You were listening to the Higher Ed
Marketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals
2
00:00:07.230 --> 00:00:11.910
in higher education. This show will
tackle all sorts of questions related to student
3
00:00:11.949 --> 00:00:16.230
recruitment, don'tor relations, marketing trends, new technologies and so much more.
4
00:00:16.989 --> 00:00:20.789
If you are looking for conversations centered
around where the industry is going, this
5
00:00:20.989 --> 00:00:29.859
podcast is for you. Let's get
into the show. Welcome to the High
6
00:00:29.940 --> 00:00:34.060
Reed Marketer podcast. Well, we
invite higher reed marketers that we admire to
7
00:00:34.179 --> 00:00:37.770
share their ideas and insights on how
they move the needle in their world.
8
00:00:38.289 --> 00:00:41.289
My name is choice singer and I'm
here with my cohost of the show,
9
00:00:41.689 --> 00:00:46.329
Bart Taylor. So, Bart,
we both think that today's guests is very
10
00:00:46.409 --> 00:00:50.359
interesting. He's kind of a part
of a very small team that puts out
11
00:00:50.359 --> 00:00:54.079
a lot of great content. Could
you please share a little bit about them?
12
00:00:54.719 --> 00:00:58.359
Yeah, we we met Dan freeborn
and he's the assistant marketing director at
13
00:00:58.399 --> 00:01:03.880
at Northern Michigan University in Marquette,
Michigan, the northern it's in the upper
14
00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:08.870
peninsula, and we've just have really
come to appreciate Dan and just his pragmatic
15
00:01:08.909 --> 00:01:11.790
approach to his marketing. I think
this show is going to be great in
16
00:01:11.870 --> 00:01:15.950
the sense that he's he kind of
opens up the hood, shows us around
17
00:01:15.989 --> 00:01:19.739
what he's doing, what's working and
what he's learned, and I think it's
18
00:01:19.939 --> 00:01:23.260
I think if you listen closely,
you'll take away a lot of really good
19
00:01:23.299 --> 00:01:27.140
things that you can apply to to
your marketing at your school. So it's
20
00:01:27.180 --> 00:01:32.700
great. Yes, very generous with
this time and with his wisdom, so
21
00:01:33.290 --> 00:01:40.650
let's get him into the show.
Today's guest on the podcast is Dan Feborn,
22
00:01:41.129 --> 00:01:46.010
who is the assistant director of marketing
and enrollment at Northern Michigan University global
23
00:01:46.090 --> 00:01:49.159
campus. Welcome to the PODCAST,
Dan. Thanks for having me. Dan.
24
00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:56.319
Like to start out by you describing
your campus at North Michigan and a
25
00:01:56.400 --> 00:02:00.439
little bit about your role there.
Yeah, absolutely so. Northern Michigan University
26
00:02:00.519 --> 00:02:05.510
where a midsize regional university, I'll
say, with name recognition throughout the Upper
27
00:02:05.549 --> 00:02:10.430
Midwest, mainly Michigan, Wisconsin,
Minnesota Illinois. My role here I work
28
00:02:10.509 --> 00:02:15.509
on our global campus, which facilitates
online learning for adult learners, so the
29
00:02:15.780 --> 00:02:20.740
degrees a completed can be completed hundred
percent online, and my specific role within
30
00:02:20.819 --> 00:02:24.539
our department is managing our marketing efforts, so everything from email, organic social
31
00:02:24.580 --> 00:02:29.819
paid advertising, and then I'm also
the primary contact throughout the admissions funnel for
32
00:02:29.939 --> 00:02:32.169
helping students progress through that, so
beca submitting their application, making sure they're
33
00:02:32.210 --> 00:02:37.090
making their marks on enrollment nexteps and
everything. So kind of a one man
34
00:02:37.210 --> 00:02:38.969
operation. We're a small team of
three and I'm one of the three.
35
00:02:39.289 --> 00:02:42.610
Great, great, well, that
was one of the questions that I have
36
00:02:42.729 --> 00:02:45.240
because I'm, as you know,
Dan, a lot of the audience that
37
00:02:45.800 --> 00:02:49.719
listen to the podcast and people the
troy and I serve our smaller institutions.
38
00:02:49.759 --> 00:02:53.599
I mean you guys are mid midsize
public but at the same time it's interesting
39
00:02:53.639 --> 00:02:58.629
with the global campus, you know
that you are kind of running that part
40
00:02:58.710 --> 00:03:01.189
of the school and the marketing of
that, much like some of our clients
41
00:03:01.229 --> 00:03:05.469
and listeners might do. So in
essence, you are the marketing department and
42
00:03:05.509 --> 00:03:07.750
I know that you produce a lot
of content and that's really what I think
43
00:03:07.870 --> 00:03:10.750
we want to talk a little bit
about today. I think that I'm big
44
00:03:10.789 --> 00:03:15.139
believer in content and I believe,
big believer, that content is what really
45
00:03:15.180 --> 00:03:17.620
we're marketing is going to be headed, and it's already there. But your
46
00:03:17.659 --> 00:03:22.419
approached. The amount that you produce
and how you how you're ensuring that's effective
47
00:03:22.460 --> 00:03:25.379
is pretty, pretty unique, and
so maybe can you describe the time involved
48
00:03:25.580 --> 00:03:29.490
to produce that amount of content that
you do, especially since you, you
49
00:03:29.569 --> 00:03:31.330
know, you just describe your role
and you we're kind of a few different
50
00:03:31.370 --> 00:03:35.210
hats. So just tell us a
little bit about what that what's involved in
51
00:03:35.330 --> 00:03:38.409
producing that amount of content? Sure, I mean a lot does go into
52
00:03:38.409 --> 00:03:42.319
it and, kind of echoing what
you did mention, in our unique individual
53
00:03:42.360 --> 00:03:45.120
department, the Global Campas, I'm
the one one guy in charge of,
54
00:03:45.439 --> 00:03:47.439
you know, helping execute all those
things. We do have a centralized marketing
55
00:03:47.479 --> 00:03:53.280
department within the Greater University that primary
focuses on the undergraduate, traditional campus bound
56
00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:57.469
student. So they've been a great
support in all this too. But from
57
00:03:57.550 --> 00:04:01.229
my function within our organization here,
it's really hard to quantify how many hours
58
00:04:01.270 --> 00:04:06.590
are spent on content development and really
what I've had to come to embraces that
59
00:04:06.629 --> 00:04:11.259
it's rather, rather than focusing on
how much time I spend, it's how
60
00:04:11.300 --> 00:04:15.379
am I actually spending the time that
I have to develop content, and it
61
00:04:15.500 --> 00:04:18.540
becomes it can become quite a paradox
for small marketing teams, because so often
62
00:04:18.620 --> 00:04:23.139
and in that kind of setting,
you're really forced into thinking about how efficient
63
00:04:23.220 --> 00:04:25.370
can you be? Let's pump out
as much as we can. We have
64
00:04:25.490 --> 00:04:27.930
to prove that we can still be
competed it of even though we have a
65
00:04:27.970 --> 00:04:30.610
small team. So it becomes this
dynamic that's really almost kind of hard to
66
00:04:30.649 --> 00:04:36.170
wrestle with, and when you're really
focused on pumping out content regardless of strategy
67
00:04:36.170 --> 00:04:39.720
or anything, it becomes more that
you're wasting time at that point. So
68
00:04:39.839 --> 00:04:43.360
what I've really tried to work to
do here is while, yes, I
69
00:04:43.399 --> 00:04:46.000
still try to be efficient, of
course that's a big part of productivity and
70
00:04:46.040 --> 00:04:47.959
a small team, I really want
to focus on how I'm spending my time
71
00:04:48.279 --> 00:04:53.589
and that revolves around being very specific
and how I'm analyzing the data that we
72
00:04:53.709 --> 00:04:58.350
collect. Most all universities have a
plethora of data and I realize every different
73
00:04:58.389 --> 00:05:00.949
position is privy the different amounts of
data. I'm really fortunate in our team
74
00:05:00.990 --> 00:05:04.829
that I get access to a lot
of data about our about our students,
75
00:05:04.829 --> 00:05:09.180
so I make sure to spend the
time to dig into that. How do
76
00:05:09.300 --> 00:05:11.660
our students behave on a whole?
You know, looking at two to three
77
00:05:11.660 --> 00:05:15.699
year trends in our perspective student pipeline. How do they act and how do
78
00:05:15.740 --> 00:05:18.500
they behave before they become in rold
enrolled students here, and taking the time
79
00:05:18.540 --> 00:05:21.610
to actually dig into that and make
sense of it all really helps develop a
80
00:05:21.649 --> 00:05:26.649
strategized plan for how I'm going to
execute content. You know how long campaigns
81
00:05:26.649 --> 00:05:29.449
are going to run for what types
of content would be most useful, and
82
00:05:29.529 --> 00:05:32.209
I'm finding because I'm doing that,
the whole the main picture is in all
83
00:05:32.250 --> 00:05:35.120
complete. Yet the whole pie is
not completed. I haven't built everything out
84
00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:38.600
the way I want it to be, but I've been able to make these
85
00:05:38.639 --> 00:05:42.800
small steps in working toward that major
goal. So I mean I'm thinking back
86
00:05:42.839 --> 00:05:46.079
to when I initially started in this
position. I was really fortunate to have
87
00:05:46.399 --> 00:05:48.680
pretty much a blank slate and there
wasn't really a focused marketing effort done for
88
00:05:48.720 --> 00:05:51.910
our online programs yet. So coming
into that it was a little bit overwhelming,
89
00:05:51.949 --> 00:05:55.430
but also it was actually really nice
to have that freedom to kind of
90
00:05:55.430 --> 00:05:58.149
start from scratch. And initially,
you know, I had all these great
91
00:05:58.189 --> 00:06:01.750
ideas of I wanted to have this
robust set of email campaigns, social content,
92
00:06:01.829 --> 00:06:04.740
paid advertising, that all linked together, but realizing as a one man
93
00:06:04.819 --> 00:06:08.579
show it's not realistic to do that
in the first few months of a new
94
00:06:08.620 --> 00:06:12.180
job. So I took it into
small, small, bite sized chunks,
95
00:06:12.300 --> 00:06:15.379
you know, initially like looking through
before coming into this position I had about
96
00:06:15.379 --> 00:06:18.889
a five years of experience in undergraduate
enrollment and missions and was involved in their
97
00:06:18.930 --> 00:06:23.730
marketing campaigns for email. So I
took what I knew from that and understanding
98
00:06:23.769 --> 00:06:28.089
the main touch points that students had
with the university throughout the enrollment process really
99
00:06:28.209 --> 00:06:31.329
just helped me build a shell of
what our email communication was going to look
100
00:06:31.329 --> 00:06:34.639
like. So looking at when they
submit an application, they should probably get
101
00:06:34.639 --> 00:06:40.160
something initially confirming that we receive their
application what their next step was. Same
102
00:06:40.279 --> 00:06:42.800
with after they were admitted, making
sure they knew what their next steps for
103
00:06:42.839 --> 00:06:46.629
enrollment were. So building out content
related to those specific action steps was my
104
00:06:46.670 --> 00:06:49.750
key point and that allowed me then
to rest a shirt that they were getting
105
00:06:49.750 --> 00:06:53.870
the main points delivered to them,
the main pieces of content they needed,
106
00:06:54.189 --> 00:06:56.350
and then from there I was able
to kind of take a step back and
107
00:06:56.389 --> 00:07:00.670
look more at that information at a
whole and was able to develop the communication
108
00:07:00.750 --> 00:07:03.300
plan much further than building out and
filling out those gaps in between the pieces
109
00:07:03.339 --> 00:07:06.620
of messaging there. So it did
take a lot of time, but I
110
00:07:06.819 --> 00:07:11.660
think taking it in bite size chunks
was the most with the key for me
111
00:07:12.019 --> 00:07:14.579
to be able to do this successfully
resting a shirt that they had the main
112
00:07:14.660 --> 00:07:16.970
points out there and then every so
often, maybe every six or eight months,
113
00:07:16.970 --> 00:07:20.050
I would introduce some more content to
build out these campaigns and flows.
114
00:07:20.250 --> 00:07:24.170
That way it's really good in that
kind of there's some of the takeaways that
115
00:07:24.209 --> 00:07:26.329
I hear you'd sayings that. I
mean, you can't. You have to
116
00:07:26.410 --> 00:07:30.279
start with a strategy, and a
strategy that's informed with data. Is really
117
00:07:30.879 --> 00:07:33.079
big deal on that part. But
tell me a little bit about different types
118
00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:36.480
of content you're producing me and certainly
the email. You talked about email flows.
119
00:07:36.519 --> 00:07:42.160
Are there other parts that you're leveraging
their en amu or what other types
120
00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:45.110
of content have you seen that's working? Yeah, I mean our big focus
121
00:07:45.149 --> 00:07:48.750
has been email because we do primarily
work with online degree seeking students and they're
122
00:07:48.750 --> 00:07:53.550
busy, you know, their adults, and with that then we implemented a
123
00:07:53.629 --> 00:07:56.230
blog, more content based, so
it's a little bit more robust as far
124
00:07:56.230 --> 00:07:59.339
as the information we can get across
and a lot of that blog content is
125
00:07:59.500 --> 00:08:03.660
really designed around action steps in the
funnel. So we realize that you know,
126
00:08:03.699 --> 00:08:05.899
maybe are one of our students.
One of our main personas of a
127
00:08:05.939 --> 00:08:09.100
student were looking at is, I'll
say regular old working adults that want to
128
00:08:09.139 --> 00:08:11.930
come and complete a degree and maybe
they have a smattering of credits from somewhere
129
00:08:11.970 --> 00:08:16.569
else. They're looking to have a
fast track to degree completion here. Maybe
130
00:08:16.569 --> 00:08:18.810
they've been out of school for ten
to twenty years and they're just trying to
131
00:08:18.850 --> 00:08:22.889
get back into things. We realize
that higher education as a whole can be
132
00:08:24.009 --> 00:08:28.000
really confusing for those students coming back
in and things have changed a lot in
133
00:08:28.079 --> 00:08:31.560
that amount of time. So our
learning environment has changed a bit. But
134
00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:35.080
also with that online learning component there
can be a lot of hesitation. So
135
00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:39.159
we've built our blog content out to
kind of help them feel more confident in
136
00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:41.470
their decision and choosing northern walking them
through our system. So when they're talking
137
00:08:41.509 --> 00:08:46.230
about the application for admission, what
should they have on hand as they're going
138
00:08:46.309 --> 00:08:50.350
through that that process? Once they're
in admitted, we talked about all their
139
00:08:50.389 --> 00:08:52.870
next steps, about taking taking advantage
of the online orientation. We have an
140
00:08:52.909 --> 00:08:56.860
online course prep tutorial for them to
take. Okay, what does that look
141
00:08:56.899 --> 00:08:58.100
like? Where does it live?
What can they expect when they're in those
142
00:08:58.139 --> 00:09:03.379
experiences? So it's really just breaking
those things apart so it's more accessible to
143
00:09:03.419 --> 00:09:07.139
the students and help them feel more
confident before getting there. So that's a
144
00:09:07.220 --> 00:09:09.409
built in kind of to our email
communication, but also as a standalone blog
145
00:09:09.570 --> 00:09:13.250
that serves at a laws as as
a place to be able to use content,
146
00:09:13.370 --> 00:09:18.289
like repurpose content for social content as
well. And that kind of goes
147
00:09:18.330 --> 00:09:20.450
back to your question about timing.
When I first started, I thought I
148
00:09:20.730 --> 00:09:24.559
was kind of fell into that trap
of feeling I needed to be everywhere all
149
00:09:24.600 --> 00:09:26.600
the time and pushing out content,
pushing out content. So we had started,
150
00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:31.000
like I mentioned, with email.
We had a facebook account linked in
151
00:09:31.159 --> 00:09:35.840
and instagram and after about two and
a half years and re kind of visiting
152
00:09:35.879 --> 00:09:39.149
strategy for all three of those,
instagram was not performing for us and I
153
00:09:39.629 --> 00:09:41.909
had to pull the plug on it
and it was a hard decision to make
154
00:09:41.950 --> 00:09:43.710
because, you know, there were
some of our students that were involved in
155
00:09:43.789 --> 00:09:48.470
that platform, but it really wasn't
getting the engagement we were we were expecting
156
00:09:48.549 --> 00:09:52.070
or what we wanted to and we
had revisited the strategy a couple times and
157
00:09:52.269 --> 00:09:54.419
we decided to cancel that for now
and put our efforts into the channels that
158
00:09:54.500 --> 00:09:58.100
were working and proving themselves really well. So we wanted to build those up
159
00:09:58.139 --> 00:10:03.179
and gain some more momentum there and
focus our effort and really make good use
160
00:10:03.220 --> 00:10:05.019
of our time. Again, because
I'm a one man show in that regard,
161
00:10:05.500 --> 00:10:09.370
I would rather put the effort into
something I know is working at this
162
00:10:09.409 --> 00:10:13.009
point, with the goal of maybe
reintroducing instagram later on. Right. Great,
163
00:10:13.330 --> 00:10:18.169
Dan, you mentioned earlier that working
adults as a top persona that you
164
00:10:18.889 --> 00:10:24.080
go after. What are some of
the other top personas that you are going
165
00:10:24.200 --> 00:10:28.320
after and what is your approach to
content creation as you try to connect with
166
00:10:28.399 --> 00:10:31.559
them? Yeah, I mean so, like you mentioned, the adult learner
167
00:10:31.639 --> 00:10:33.879
returning to schools is a big one, whether they, and a lot of
168
00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:37.789
them, don't have northern experience,
previous northern experience. So those are their
169
00:10:37.830 --> 00:10:41.789
fresh to northern and then our second, I would say our top two personas
170
00:10:41.830 --> 00:10:43.669
would be that adult learner that doesn't
have northern experience and then a re entry
171
00:10:43.710 --> 00:10:48.509
student to northern that may be stopped
out for some reason, whether it be
172
00:10:48.590 --> 00:10:50.620
because of grades or family situations,
they weren't able to complete their degree and
173
00:10:50.620 --> 00:10:54.340
they're just looking to come back because
they have that affinity with northern. They
174
00:10:54.419 --> 00:10:58.340
know what to expect as far as
education goes. So I mean, I
175
00:10:58.379 --> 00:11:01.659
think that would probably be actually our
top persona that we're that we're after right
176
00:11:01.700 --> 00:11:03.809
now, because it's, I'll say, it's lowhanging fruit. You know,
177
00:11:03.929 --> 00:11:09.090
they have that private previous experience with
Northern, which really really helps their confidence
178
00:11:09.129 --> 00:11:13.450
level in choosing us again to complete. Now the online learning environment is much
179
00:11:13.450 --> 00:11:15.850
different than what they experience, you
know, as a freshman coming in fresh
180
00:11:15.850 --> 00:11:18.049
out of high school. So helping
them understand what that's going to be like
181
00:11:18.210 --> 00:11:22.639
as a challenge. But I think
for both of these these personas, these
182
00:11:22.679 --> 00:11:26.679
avatars, whatever you want to call
them, are, approach to content development
183
00:11:26.720 --> 00:11:31.200
and design is very specific because,
and this really isn't unique just to online
184
00:11:31.240 --> 00:11:35.470
learners, it's it should be common
practice and marketing across the board, I
185
00:11:35.549 --> 00:11:39.350
think. But if we're not focused
on being hyper relevant to our students,
186
00:11:39.789 --> 00:11:45.309
they're going to dismiss us. It's
online learning is becoming much more competitive.
187
00:11:45.549 --> 00:11:48.299
There's a lot more programs and especially
with the pandemic. I think a lot
188
00:11:48.340 --> 00:11:50.860
more institutions have become confident in their
online delivery, so I would expect a
189
00:11:50.940 --> 00:11:56.580
lot more programs and courses will be
popping up. So it makes me kind
190
00:11:56.620 --> 00:12:00.139
of go on the offense of being
how can we be more competitive, how
191
00:12:00.179 --> 00:12:03.330
can we more appealing? How can
we deliver the information in a way that's
192
00:12:03.330 --> 00:12:05.409
very specific to these students? And
that's what really guides my content creation and
193
00:12:07.009 --> 00:12:11.049
I've kind of developed a strategy.
I call it being generally specific. So
194
00:12:11.129 --> 00:12:13.210
I think through all this information I
talked about, these initial emails I set
195
00:12:13.210 --> 00:12:16.279
up talking about just the main touch
points, when they apply, when they're
196
00:12:16.279 --> 00:12:20.080
admitted, once they completed an orientation, that kind of stuff. Those that's
197
00:12:20.159 --> 00:12:24.159
general information everybody needs to know,
helping them get through the process in a
198
00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:26.759
general way just so they can actually
progress. But if you're taking things and
199
00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:31.789
taking that general information and making it
hyper applicable and hyper specific to individual students
200
00:12:31.830 --> 00:12:35.190
and what their needs are, that's
where that magic is going to happen.
201
00:12:35.190 --> 00:12:37.429
And what I mean by this would
be so, for instance, if we
202
00:12:37.509 --> 00:12:41.909
have somebody coming through our initial RFI
form, just raising their hand, they
203
00:12:41.909 --> 00:12:46.740
want to get some information about studying
online at northern and they indicate will use
204
00:12:46.779 --> 00:12:48.860
our Ur ndbsn program as an example. They want to learn more about that
205
00:12:48.940 --> 00:12:54.899
program so the initial email that goes
out to them is delivered within the hour.
206
00:12:54.059 --> 00:12:58.299
Our system has a timing thing,
so that's the soon as we can
207
00:12:58.340 --> 00:13:01.850
get it out, but within an
hour they're delivered a very specific email that
208
00:13:01.929 --> 00:13:05.570
addresses their interest in the URN rndobsn
program online. We take their state of
209
00:13:05.730 --> 00:13:09.970
residency into account as well, so
if they're outside of the state of Michigan,
210
00:13:09.049 --> 00:13:13.200
we have some information we provide that
way. And then we also collect
211
00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:16.879
information on their their student type,
so whether they're an incoming freshman, a
212
00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:20.240
transfer student or re entry northern student
or a post baculaureate. And while the
213
00:13:20.519 --> 00:13:24.120
I sage just still conveying the same
information with the program there are nuances to
214
00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:28.950
each of these programs that would be
relevant to different student types or where they're
215
00:13:28.990 --> 00:13:31.070
from or, you know, their
stage if they're transferring, in kind of
216
00:13:31.110 --> 00:13:35.629
how their credits work. So instead
of just sending them general links to go
217
00:13:35.870 --> 00:13:37.750
and sort out the information themselves,
we do all that work for them and
218
00:13:39.230 --> 00:13:43.179
it's delivered and populates in the emails
for them automatically. So that's where the
219
00:13:43.179 --> 00:13:46.379
time comes in. We're doing all
those work on the back end to really
220
00:13:46.860 --> 00:13:50.740
create content for the student when they're
having this experience in their web browser.
221
00:13:50.059 --> 00:13:52.580
They're going to see what they need
to see right away without having to sort
222
00:13:52.620 --> 00:13:56.009
and get lost, you know,
and we don't want to lose them.
223
00:13:56.090 --> 00:13:58.889
So this is a way that we
can help help them through that and be
224
00:13:58.009 --> 00:14:01.129
relevant. I really like that because
I think that it's so important, and
225
00:14:01.250 --> 00:14:05.129
I talked to a lot of people
about this, as let the computers do
226
00:14:05.250 --> 00:14:07.929
the the tasks and all the other
things so that you can focus more on
227
00:14:07.090 --> 00:14:11.440
the on the relationships and being strategic. I love the fact that you're automating
228
00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:13.720
so much of that because, I
mean, you know, the data is
229
00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:18.360
in the database. The computer should
be able to figure out this person's out
230
00:14:18.360 --> 00:14:20.759
of state, so I'm going to
insert this particular piece of contents that they
231
00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:24.110
have what they need and program specific
and other things like that. So I
232
00:14:24.230 --> 00:14:28.750
think that that's so it's a critical
thing that a lot of people miss is
233
00:14:28.909 --> 00:14:31.750
that really take advantage of these automated
tools. You know, crm's are I
234
00:14:31.830 --> 00:14:35.789
mean, even if you use excel
and word. There's ways to automate different
235
00:14:35.830 --> 00:14:39.299
things and take the time to figure
that out. I think really pays off
236
00:14:39.419 --> 00:14:41.220
in the long run and at the
end of the day it really makes it
237
00:14:41.340 --> 00:14:45.259
a better experience for the user,
which is really what we're talking about.
238
00:14:45.700 --> 00:14:48.299
So I think that's a it's a
really good point. Yeah, and when
239
00:14:48.299 --> 00:14:50.460
you're thinking about the content too,
it's important, I think, to be
240
00:14:50.580 --> 00:14:54.529
thinking about the information you're collecting.
And every institution I know operates very differently.
241
00:14:54.649 --> 00:15:00.009
So their methods of collecting information maybe
a universal, universal form, or
242
00:15:00.169 --> 00:15:01.769
maybe they have the flexibility in the
benefit of having their own where they can
243
00:15:01.769 --> 00:15:07.960
collect whatever information they want. But
really being strategic and thoughtful about what information
244
00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:11.879
you're collecting to inform how your campaigns
are going to be executed is really,
245
00:15:11.879 --> 00:15:13.440
really key. So if you're just
asking for everything and really don't have a
246
00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:16.799
plan for how you're going to use
it information, it's pointless. Right.
247
00:15:16.799 --> 00:15:18.919
It's a waste of the prospects time, it's a waste of your time.
248
00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:20.950
It's almost like the chicken before the
egg. What comes first? Is a
249
00:15:20.990 --> 00:15:24.509
developing these forms of get leads,
or is it thinking about how you're going
250
00:15:24.549 --> 00:15:26.350
to what types of messages you're going
to send to these students to inform how
251
00:15:26.350 --> 00:15:28.549
you're going to build this form?
Yeah, and I think that's a really
252
00:15:28.549 --> 00:15:33.110
a big conversation that needs to happen
within, you know, departments. Yeah,
253
00:15:33.110 --> 00:15:33.950
and I think that that's a really
good point too, because if you
254
00:15:33.990 --> 00:15:37.340
ask too much information, you're going
to scare scare them away and they're going
255
00:15:37.340 --> 00:15:39.899
to be like I I'm not going
to fill out an application just to get
256
00:15:39.940 --> 00:15:43.700
some information. And I think that's
a balance that a lot of schools don't
257
00:15:43.700 --> 00:15:48.419
think about sometimes that you really put
yourself in the in the shoes of your
258
00:15:48.500 --> 00:15:52.090
prospect who's a busy professional, you
know, with with your particular audience,
259
00:15:52.129 --> 00:15:54.889
their busy professionals. They're trying to
get answers to the questions that they have
260
00:15:56.129 --> 00:15:58.490
and they're trying to make some decisions
in the middle of balancing work and life
261
00:15:58.570 --> 00:16:03.289
and and everything else. And if
you're all the sudden asking them, you
262
00:16:03.370 --> 00:16:07.360
know, fifteen or twenty questions on
an RFI, that is you're halfway down
263
00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:10.840
with an application at that point there, it's going to create a wall for
264
00:16:10.919 --> 00:16:14.320
them and I think that you're probably
seeing that kind of thing in your data
265
00:16:14.440 --> 00:16:17.600
and that's probably helping you figure that
out. So maybe you know, you
266
00:16:17.720 --> 00:16:19.309
mentioned data earlier and how you kind
of go in to some of those,
267
00:16:21.029 --> 00:16:23.509
you know, analyzing your data to
Chers to make better decisions, to choose
268
00:16:23.710 --> 00:16:27.309
the content and understand things. Tell
us a little bit more about how you're
269
00:16:27.350 --> 00:16:32.750
using that, how you're how you're
going about your data reviews. Yeah,
270
00:16:32.750 --> 00:16:36.299
that's a great question and it's been
a big learning process and I'm I'm not
271
00:16:36.340 --> 00:16:37.259
going to claim to be an expert. I don't know if this ruins the
272
00:16:37.259 --> 00:16:41.460
episode or not, but it's worked
for me so far. There's always so
273
00:16:41.500 --> 00:16:42.899
much more to learn and I love
learning about this stuff. So I mean
274
00:16:42.899 --> 00:16:47.059
it's great too. That's I appreciate. What appreciate about your show. You
275
00:16:47.139 --> 00:16:48.490
know, can learn so much from
the other professionals that are out there.
276
00:16:48.570 --> 00:16:52.289
But what I found to be helpful
is when I'm looking through this data that
277
00:16:52.370 --> 00:16:56.769
we've collected from the way our students
behave. Obviously I think it's pretty common
278
00:16:56.769 --> 00:17:00.879
to segment into three different different pieces. So the inquiry stage where they haven't
279
00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:04.240
submitted an application yet. You got
that time with a student where they've submitted
280
00:17:04.279 --> 00:17:07.480
an application but they have not been
they've not gotten an omissions decision yet,
281
00:17:07.640 --> 00:17:11.400
and then from those that have gotten
their admission decision, what happens after that,
282
00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:12.680
what steps that they take? So
I've broke it into those three parts
283
00:17:14.200 --> 00:17:18.789
and then I took about a too, because our department was relatively new and
284
00:17:18.869 --> 00:17:22.150
I started. I took about a
two to three year historical look at how
285
00:17:22.190 --> 00:17:26.150
our students behaved in that each of
those stages. So what I was looking
286
00:17:26.190 --> 00:17:30.900
at was how long from their initial
inquiry to when they submitted an application.
287
00:17:30.460 --> 00:17:33.019
On average, how long did it
take a students in that that part of
288
00:17:33.059 --> 00:17:37.140
the funnel to take the next action? And that was really really helpful because
289
00:17:37.180 --> 00:17:41.299
that was able to inform how long
I was going to run an email campaign
290
00:17:41.339 --> 00:17:45.130
for that group of students. And
I think it's also important to like it's
291
00:17:45.490 --> 00:17:48.250
it's easy to want to try to
catch every single person, but realizing if
292
00:17:48.289 --> 00:17:52.250
we're doing that, that's a always
going to be a oneonone system and it's
293
00:17:52.289 --> 00:17:55.690
really hard to do that within an
automated system. You have to kind of
294
00:17:56.410 --> 00:18:00.240
you have to reach the ninety percent
almost, you know, and then backfill
295
00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:03.279
with individual communication for those it maybe
don't fit that. So that's what helps
296
00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:07.519
me build the automations is looking at
that time frame. So what I found
297
00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:10.960
in our information we had about a
twomonth window that a student might be hanging
298
00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:14.509
out there. From an inquiry to
an application, that was about the longest
299
00:18:14.509 --> 00:18:17.710
that they'd be in that that stage. And then from application to admission,
300
00:18:17.829 --> 00:18:21.589
but a two week window, and
then from admitted to enrolled it's another two
301
00:18:21.630 --> 00:18:23.349
months, depending on when they're coming
in. It depends on start terms.
302
00:18:23.349 --> 00:18:26.470
There's a lot of a lot of
variables for sure, as I'm sure a
303
00:18:26.470 --> 00:18:29.259
lot of you understand, but that
just gave me a framework to know.
304
00:18:29.500 --> 00:18:32.539
Okay, so if I've got two
months to run an email campaign for this
305
00:18:32.579 --> 00:18:34.859
specific stage, let's break it apart. Are we doing a monthly email?
306
00:18:34.900 --> 00:18:37.539
Are we doing a weekly email?
What does this look like? And it
307
00:18:37.619 --> 00:18:41.849
just kind of really helped shape that
strategy a bit. So that was the
308
00:18:41.009 --> 00:18:45.609
key thing I was looking at and
then from there it was looking back at
309
00:18:45.650 --> 00:18:48.930
any of the other sources we had
off look at the inquiry stage, for
310
00:18:48.970 --> 00:18:52.210
example, like after after a students
submitted their initial RFI. What other touch
311
00:18:52.289 --> 00:18:55.650
points at the university that did a
lot of them seem to have? Was
312
00:18:55.690 --> 00:18:57.480
a phone calls, was it a
virtual event of some sort, and that
313
00:18:57.559 --> 00:19:00.880
really just kind of helped develop a
strategy a bit more as well. I
314
00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:06.240
liked it. Looking at it from
the funnel phase. I think you've simplified
315
00:19:06.279 --> 00:19:07.920
it down to the three. I
think some schools kind of look at it,
316
00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:12.029
and I'm a big believer that you
have to resell your service every time,
317
00:19:12.309 --> 00:19:15.509
your product every time. I mean
you're doing one type of sale in
318
00:19:15.549 --> 00:19:19.430
the inquiry phrase, you're doing another
type of sale in the application phase,
319
00:19:19.470 --> 00:19:23.819
you're doing another type of sale after
acceptance with deposit and and or getting them
320
00:19:23.900 --> 00:19:26.859
registered and all those things. I
mean there's like four or five different sales
321
00:19:26.900 --> 00:19:32.619
processes even up to matriculation, and
so it's so critical to even you know
322
00:19:32.700 --> 00:19:36.019
whether whether you're looking at ags adult
and graduate students or whether you're looking at
323
00:19:36.019 --> 00:19:40.089
traditional Undergrad or transfer. I think
that there's just so much ways to use
324
00:19:40.130 --> 00:19:41.769
that date and I think that's a
really, really great point. So thanks
325
00:19:41.769 --> 00:19:45.210
for sharing that. Yeah, and
I think related to that to there's such
326
00:19:45.210 --> 00:19:48.529
a tendency, and I keep focusing
on email. That's the big focus that
327
00:19:48.569 --> 00:19:52.089
I have right now is getting that
nailed down. There's a tendency to just
328
00:19:52.210 --> 00:19:56.359
put all this, all these hyper
links into emails. Like, if anybody's
329
00:19:56.400 --> 00:19:59.680
thinking to their inbox, nobody likes
to see any email like that unless you're
330
00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:03.319
like specifically signing up for a newsletter. We were expecting multiple links, but
331
00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:07.789
if we're blasting students with that kind
of information unwarranted, it's it's really not
332
00:20:07.829 --> 00:20:10.349
going to get any performance on that. So if the beauty of that is
333
00:20:10.470 --> 00:20:12.589
okay, so you've got this email
with tons of hyperlinks, like you have
334
00:20:12.750 --> 00:20:15.789
basically the content you need for a
campaign right there. Let's break it apart
335
00:20:15.789 --> 00:20:19.509
in two separate emails, deliver it
to them and small, bite sized chunks.
336
00:20:19.509 --> 00:20:23.299
or it's not so overwhelming. And
a lot of times I'm finding even
337
00:20:23.339 --> 00:20:26.740
with other within other departments at the
university, that they already have the content
338
00:20:26.819 --> 00:20:30.900
they need to build out a full
campaign. It's just instead of sending it
339
00:20:30.940 --> 00:20:33.460
in one or two emails, we
can spread it out into nine or ten
340
00:20:33.539 --> 00:20:37.490
maybe to increase the lifespan of that
Daan. We like to close each episode
341
00:20:37.490 --> 00:20:41.089
by asking our guests for a power
nugget, something that you're doing or maybe
342
00:20:41.089 --> 00:20:45.769
you read about that could immediately be
implemented by others. Do you have anything
343
00:20:45.849 --> 00:20:48.490
that you can share her, I
mean without restating the generally specific thing,
344
00:20:48.529 --> 00:20:52.680
has been really helpful for me.
I'd say. The other piece is really
345
00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:56.519
kind of elaborating at what I just
mentioned. would be focusing in an email
346
00:20:56.759 --> 00:21:00.839
on one action step, maybe even
to depending on you know what the actually
347
00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:03.039
emails designed for. But if you're
really looking for student to take an action
348
00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:06.789
in the funnel, that has to
be the primary focus. So don't bog
349
00:21:06.869 --> 00:21:10.549
it down with other things that they
can get distracted on go down different rabbit
350
00:21:10.589 --> 00:21:12.309
holes. If you want them to
apply, make that your your action.
351
00:21:12.789 --> 00:21:15.509
Maybe have a couple links to the
application for admission. If you want them
352
00:21:15.549 --> 00:21:18.380
to fill out a request for information
form, if you're buying lists and things
353
00:21:18.460 --> 00:21:22.859
like that, literally your only action
they can take should be to fill out
354
00:21:22.900 --> 00:21:26.900
that form. There's a bit of
a craft, I guess, with creating
355
00:21:26.940 --> 00:21:30.980
benefit messaging with an action, but
if you keep them pretty short and sweet
356
00:21:30.980 --> 00:21:33.410
there's more likely a chance that they're
going to actually click through and take the
357
00:21:33.450 --> 00:21:37.690
action you want. It's great,
perfect. Thank you, Dan. And
358
00:21:37.569 --> 00:21:41.890
what's the best way for people to
get ahold of you if they would like
359
00:21:41.049 --> 00:21:45.369
to? Probably the easiest way would
be on Linkedin, just you can search
360
00:21:45.369 --> 00:21:48.599
for my name, Dan Freeborne.
I'm there. Feel free to message me
361
00:21:48.680 --> 00:21:51.319
of any questions that you have.
Would love to just hear what everybody's up
362
00:21:51.319 --> 00:21:53.880
to and what strategies are. I
love collaborating that way. Thank you and
363
00:21:53.920 --> 00:21:57.160
Dan, it's been a pleasure speaking
with you today. Thanks for having me,
364
00:21:57.559 --> 00:22:00.509
Bart. Do you have any parting
thoughts? Before we wrap up,
365
00:22:00.630 --> 00:22:03.950
I just want to thank Dan too, just for being a guest on the
366
00:22:03.990 --> 00:22:07.829
show. I think it's been very
valuable, Dan, and I think that
367
00:22:07.150 --> 00:22:11.069
I love the fact that you are
really focused so much on this sun on
368
00:22:11.150 --> 00:22:15.390
the clear content that email can do, and I'm a big believer that the
369
00:22:15.549 --> 00:22:18.180
power hour of email is still there. I think you know, obviously with
370
00:22:18.259 --> 00:22:22.380
a GS, I think that that's
their primary mode of doing that. Whether
371
00:22:22.420 --> 00:22:26.380
your Gen wire, jen x or
boomers, that's the email is going to
372
00:22:26.420 --> 00:22:30.289
be the conduit. But I think
even when you look at Gen Z and
373
00:22:30.569 --> 00:22:33.490
and parents, email can be a
very powerful thing as well. You just
374
00:22:33.609 --> 00:22:37.769
have to kind of look at it
slightly differently for generation Z and augment it
375
00:22:37.849 --> 00:22:40.130
with a few other things. But
if you can copy mom and dad on
376
00:22:40.210 --> 00:22:44.170
that for the traditional you're right back
in the sweet spot with email, and
377
00:22:44.289 --> 00:22:47.519
so I love what you've shared today
and I love the the content that you've
378
00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:52.160
talked about. So thanks again.
Absolutely well said. And now we end
379
00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:56.839
every episode with our commercial. The
High Reed Marketer podcast is sponsored by Kao
380
00:22:56.039 --> 00:23:02.750
Solutions and Education, marketing and branding
agency and by thing patented, a marketing,
381
00:23:02.789 --> 00:23:06.950
execution, printing and mailing provider of
high it solutions. On behalf of
382
00:23:07.109 --> 00:23:11.869
my cohost Bark Taylor, I'm troy
singer. Thank you for listening and supporting
383
00:23:11.950 --> 00:23:18.380
our podcast. You've been listening to
the Higher Ed Marketer. To ensure that
384
00:23:18.500 --> 00:23:22.539
you never miss an episode, subscribe
to the show in your favorite podcast player.
385
00:23:22.420 --> 00:23:26.660
If you're listening with apple PODCASTS,
we'd love for you to leave a
386
00:23:26.700 --> 00:23:30.170
quick rating of the show. Simply
tap the number of stars you think the
387
00:23:30.210 --> 00:23:32.690
podcast deserves. Until next time.