The Magic Is in the Messaging: Content Creation for Higher Ed Marketing

WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.879 --> 00:00:07.190 You were listening to the Higher Ed Marketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals 2 00:00:07.230 --> 00:00:11.910 in higher education. This show will tackle all sorts of questions related to student 3 00:00:11.949 --> 00:00:16.230 recruitment, don'tor relations, marketing trends, new technologies and so much more. 4 00:00:16.989 --> 00:00:20.789 If you are looking for conversations centered around where the industry is going, this 5 00:00:20.989 --> 00:00:29.859 podcast is for you. Let's get into the show. Welcome to the High 6 00:00:29.940 --> 00:00:34.060 Reed Marketer podcast. Well, we invite higher reed marketers that we admire to 7 00:00:34.179 --> 00:00:37.770 share their ideas and insights on how they move the needle in their world. 8 00:00:38.289 --> 00:00:41.289 My name is choice singer and I'm here with my cohost of the show, 9 00:00:41.689 --> 00:00:46.329 Bart Taylor. So, Bart, we both think that today's guests is very 10 00:00:46.409 --> 00:00:50.359 interesting. He's kind of a part of a very small team that puts out 11 00:00:50.359 --> 00:00:54.079 a lot of great content. Could you please share a little bit about them? 12 00:00:54.719 --> 00:00:58.359 Yeah, we we met Dan freeborn and he's the assistant marketing director at 13 00:00:58.399 --> 00:01:03.880 at Northern Michigan University in Marquette, Michigan, the northern it's in the upper 14 00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:08.870 peninsula, and we've just have really come to appreciate Dan and just his pragmatic 15 00:01:08.909 --> 00:01:11.790 approach to his marketing. I think this show is going to be great in 16 00:01:11.870 --> 00:01:15.950 the sense that he's he kind of opens up the hood, shows us around 17 00:01:15.989 --> 00:01:19.739 what he's doing, what's working and what he's learned, and I think it's 18 00:01:19.939 --> 00:01:23.260 I think if you listen closely, you'll take away a lot of really good 19 00:01:23.299 --> 00:01:27.140 things that you can apply to to your marketing at your school. So it's 20 00:01:27.180 --> 00:01:32.700 great. Yes, very generous with this time and with his wisdom, so 21 00:01:33.290 --> 00:01:40.650 let's get him into the show. Today's guest on the podcast is Dan Feborn, 22 00:01:41.129 --> 00:01:46.010 who is the assistant director of marketing and enrollment at Northern Michigan University global 23 00:01:46.090 --> 00:01:49.159 campus. Welcome to the PODCAST, Dan. Thanks for having me. Dan. 24 00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:56.319 Like to start out by you describing your campus at North Michigan and a 25 00:01:56.400 --> 00:02:00.439 little bit about your role there. Yeah, absolutely so. Northern Michigan University 26 00:02:00.519 --> 00:02:05.510 where a midsize regional university, I'll say, with name recognition throughout the Upper 27 00:02:05.549 --> 00:02:10.430 Midwest, mainly Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota Illinois. My role here I work 28 00:02:10.509 --> 00:02:15.509 on our global campus, which facilitates online learning for adult learners, so the 29 00:02:15.780 --> 00:02:20.740 degrees a completed can be completed hundred percent online, and my specific role within 30 00:02:20.819 --> 00:02:24.539 our department is managing our marketing efforts, so everything from email, organic social 31 00:02:24.580 --> 00:02:29.819 paid advertising, and then I'm also the primary contact throughout the admissions funnel for 32 00:02:29.939 --> 00:02:32.169 helping students progress through that, so beca submitting their application, making sure they're 33 00:02:32.210 --> 00:02:37.090 making their marks on enrollment nexteps and everything. So kind of a one man 34 00:02:37.210 --> 00:02:38.969 operation. We're a small team of three and I'm one of the three. 35 00:02:39.289 --> 00:02:42.610 Great, great, well, that was one of the questions that I have 36 00:02:42.729 --> 00:02:45.240 because I'm, as you know, Dan, a lot of the audience that 37 00:02:45.800 --> 00:02:49.719 listen to the podcast and people the troy and I serve our smaller institutions. 38 00:02:49.759 --> 00:02:53.599 I mean you guys are mid midsize public but at the same time it's interesting 39 00:02:53.639 --> 00:02:58.629 with the global campus, you know that you are kind of running that part 40 00:02:58.710 --> 00:03:01.189 of the school and the marketing of that, much like some of our clients 41 00:03:01.229 --> 00:03:05.469 and listeners might do. So in essence, you are the marketing department and 42 00:03:05.509 --> 00:03:07.750 I know that you produce a lot of content and that's really what I think 43 00:03:07.870 --> 00:03:10.750 we want to talk a little bit about today. I think that I'm big 44 00:03:10.789 --> 00:03:15.139 believer in content and I believe, big believer, that content is what really 45 00:03:15.180 --> 00:03:17.620 we're marketing is going to be headed, and it's already there. But your 46 00:03:17.659 --> 00:03:22.419 approached. The amount that you produce and how you how you're ensuring that's effective 47 00:03:22.460 --> 00:03:25.379 is pretty, pretty unique, and so maybe can you describe the time involved 48 00:03:25.580 --> 00:03:29.490 to produce that amount of content that you do, especially since you, you 49 00:03:29.569 --> 00:03:31.330 know, you just describe your role and you we're kind of a few different 50 00:03:31.370 --> 00:03:35.210 hats. So just tell us a little bit about what that what's involved in 51 00:03:35.330 --> 00:03:38.409 producing that amount of content? Sure, I mean a lot does go into 52 00:03:38.409 --> 00:03:42.319 it and, kind of echoing what you did mention, in our unique individual 53 00:03:42.360 --> 00:03:45.120 department, the Global Campas, I'm the one one guy in charge of, 54 00:03:45.439 --> 00:03:47.439 you know, helping execute all those things. We do have a centralized marketing 55 00:03:47.479 --> 00:03:53.280 department within the Greater University that primary focuses on the undergraduate, traditional campus bound 56 00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:57.469 student. So they've been a great support in all this too. But from 57 00:03:57.550 --> 00:04:01.229 my function within our organization here, it's really hard to quantify how many hours 58 00:04:01.270 --> 00:04:06.590 are spent on content development and really what I've had to come to embraces that 59 00:04:06.629 --> 00:04:11.259 it's rather, rather than focusing on how much time I spend, it's how 60 00:04:11.300 --> 00:04:15.379 am I actually spending the time that I have to develop content, and it 61 00:04:15.500 --> 00:04:18.540 becomes it can become quite a paradox for small marketing teams, because so often 62 00:04:18.620 --> 00:04:23.139 and in that kind of setting, you're really forced into thinking about how efficient 63 00:04:23.220 --> 00:04:25.370 can you be? Let's pump out as much as we can. We have 64 00:04:25.490 --> 00:04:27.930 to prove that we can still be competed it of even though we have a 65 00:04:27.970 --> 00:04:30.610 small team. So it becomes this dynamic that's really almost kind of hard to 66 00:04:30.649 --> 00:04:36.170 wrestle with, and when you're really focused on pumping out content regardless of strategy 67 00:04:36.170 --> 00:04:39.720 or anything, it becomes more that you're wasting time at that point. So 68 00:04:39.839 --> 00:04:43.360 what I've really tried to work to do here is while, yes, I 69 00:04:43.399 --> 00:04:46.000 still try to be efficient, of course that's a big part of productivity and 70 00:04:46.040 --> 00:04:47.959 a small team, I really want to focus on how I'm spending my time 71 00:04:48.279 --> 00:04:53.589 and that revolves around being very specific and how I'm analyzing the data that we 72 00:04:53.709 --> 00:04:58.350 collect. Most all universities have a plethora of data and I realize every different 73 00:04:58.389 --> 00:05:00.949 position is privy the different amounts of data. I'm really fortunate in our team 74 00:05:00.990 --> 00:05:04.829 that I get access to a lot of data about our about our students, 75 00:05:04.829 --> 00:05:09.180 so I make sure to spend the time to dig into that. How do 76 00:05:09.300 --> 00:05:11.660 our students behave on a whole? You know, looking at two to three 77 00:05:11.660 --> 00:05:15.699 year trends in our perspective student pipeline. How do they act and how do 78 00:05:15.740 --> 00:05:18.500 they behave before they become in rold enrolled students here, and taking the time 79 00:05:18.540 --> 00:05:21.610 to actually dig into that and make sense of it all really helps develop a 80 00:05:21.649 --> 00:05:26.649 strategized plan for how I'm going to execute content. You know how long campaigns 81 00:05:26.649 --> 00:05:29.449 are going to run for what types of content would be most useful, and 82 00:05:29.529 --> 00:05:32.209 I'm finding because I'm doing that, the whole the main picture is in all 83 00:05:32.250 --> 00:05:35.120 complete. Yet the whole pie is not completed. I haven't built everything out 84 00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:38.600 the way I want it to be, but I've been able to make these 85 00:05:38.639 --> 00:05:42.800 small steps in working toward that major goal. So I mean I'm thinking back 86 00:05:42.839 --> 00:05:46.079 to when I initially started in this position. I was really fortunate to have 87 00:05:46.399 --> 00:05:48.680 pretty much a blank slate and there wasn't really a focused marketing effort done for 88 00:05:48.720 --> 00:05:51.910 our online programs yet. So coming into that it was a little bit overwhelming, 89 00:05:51.949 --> 00:05:55.430 but also it was actually really nice to have that freedom to kind of 90 00:05:55.430 --> 00:05:58.149 start from scratch. And initially, you know, I had all these great 91 00:05:58.189 --> 00:06:01.750 ideas of I wanted to have this robust set of email campaigns, social content, 92 00:06:01.829 --> 00:06:04.740 paid advertising, that all linked together, but realizing as a one man 93 00:06:04.819 --> 00:06:08.579 show it's not realistic to do that in the first few months of a new 94 00:06:08.620 --> 00:06:12.180 job. So I took it into small, small, bite sized chunks, 95 00:06:12.300 --> 00:06:15.379 you know, initially like looking through before coming into this position I had about 96 00:06:15.379 --> 00:06:18.889 a five years of experience in undergraduate enrollment and missions and was involved in their 97 00:06:18.930 --> 00:06:23.730 marketing campaigns for email. So I took what I knew from that and understanding 98 00:06:23.769 --> 00:06:28.089 the main touch points that students had with the university throughout the enrollment process really 99 00:06:28.209 --> 00:06:31.329 just helped me build a shell of what our email communication was going to look 100 00:06:31.329 --> 00:06:34.639 like. So looking at when they submit an application, they should probably get 101 00:06:34.639 --> 00:06:40.160 something initially confirming that we receive their application what their next step was. Same 102 00:06:40.279 --> 00:06:42.800 with after they were admitted, making sure they knew what their next steps for 103 00:06:42.839 --> 00:06:46.629 enrollment were. So building out content related to those specific action steps was my 104 00:06:46.670 --> 00:06:49.750 key point and that allowed me then to rest a shirt that they were getting 105 00:06:49.750 --> 00:06:53.870 the main points delivered to them, the main pieces of content they needed, 106 00:06:54.189 --> 00:06:56.350 and then from there I was able to kind of take a step back and 107 00:06:56.389 --> 00:07:00.670 look more at that information at a whole and was able to develop the communication 108 00:07:00.750 --> 00:07:03.300 plan much further than building out and filling out those gaps in between the pieces 109 00:07:03.339 --> 00:07:06.620 of messaging there. So it did take a lot of time, but I 110 00:07:06.819 --> 00:07:11.660 think taking it in bite size chunks was the most with the key for me 111 00:07:12.019 --> 00:07:14.579 to be able to do this successfully resting a shirt that they had the main 112 00:07:14.660 --> 00:07:16.970 points out there and then every so often, maybe every six or eight months, 113 00:07:16.970 --> 00:07:20.050 I would introduce some more content to build out these campaigns and flows. 114 00:07:20.250 --> 00:07:24.170 That way it's really good in that kind of there's some of the takeaways that 115 00:07:24.209 --> 00:07:26.329 I hear you'd sayings that. I mean, you can't. You have to 116 00:07:26.410 --> 00:07:30.279 start with a strategy, and a strategy that's informed with data. Is really 117 00:07:30.879 --> 00:07:33.079 big deal on that part. But tell me a little bit about different types 118 00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:36.480 of content you're producing me and certainly the email. You talked about email flows. 119 00:07:36.519 --> 00:07:42.160 Are there other parts that you're leveraging their en amu or what other types 120 00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:45.110 of content have you seen that's working? Yeah, I mean our big focus 121 00:07:45.149 --> 00:07:48.750 has been email because we do primarily work with online degree seeking students and they're 122 00:07:48.750 --> 00:07:53.550 busy, you know, their adults, and with that then we implemented a 123 00:07:53.629 --> 00:07:56.230 blog, more content based, so it's a little bit more robust as far 124 00:07:56.230 --> 00:07:59.339 as the information we can get across and a lot of that blog content is 125 00:07:59.500 --> 00:08:03.660 really designed around action steps in the funnel. So we realize that you know, 126 00:08:03.699 --> 00:08:05.899 maybe are one of our students. One of our main personas of a 127 00:08:05.939 --> 00:08:09.100 student were looking at is, I'll say regular old working adults that want to 128 00:08:09.139 --> 00:08:11.930 come and complete a degree and maybe they have a smattering of credits from somewhere 129 00:08:11.970 --> 00:08:16.569 else. They're looking to have a fast track to degree completion here. Maybe 130 00:08:16.569 --> 00:08:18.810 they've been out of school for ten to twenty years and they're just trying to 131 00:08:18.850 --> 00:08:22.889 get back into things. We realize that higher education as a whole can be 132 00:08:24.009 --> 00:08:28.000 really confusing for those students coming back in and things have changed a lot in 133 00:08:28.079 --> 00:08:31.560 that amount of time. So our learning environment has changed a bit. But 134 00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:35.080 also with that online learning component there can be a lot of hesitation. So 135 00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:39.159 we've built our blog content out to kind of help them feel more confident in 136 00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:41.470 their decision and choosing northern walking them through our system. So when they're talking 137 00:08:41.509 --> 00:08:46.230 about the application for admission, what should they have on hand as they're going 138 00:08:46.309 --> 00:08:50.350 through that that process? Once they're in admitted, we talked about all their 139 00:08:50.389 --> 00:08:52.870 next steps, about taking taking advantage of the online orientation. We have an 140 00:08:52.909 --> 00:08:56.860 online course prep tutorial for them to take. Okay, what does that look 141 00:08:56.899 --> 00:08:58.100 like? Where does it live? What can they expect when they're in those 142 00:08:58.139 --> 00:09:03.379 experiences? So it's really just breaking those things apart so it's more accessible to 143 00:09:03.419 --> 00:09:07.139 the students and help them feel more confident before getting there. So that's a 144 00:09:07.220 --> 00:09:09.409 built in kind of to our email communication, but also as a standalone blog 145 00:09:09.570 --> 00:09:13.250 that serves at a laws as as a place to be able to use content, 146 00:09:13.370 --> 00:09:18.289 like repurpose content for social content as well. And that kind of goes 147 00:09:18.330 --> 00:09:20.450 back to your question about timing. When I first started, I thought I 148 00:09:20.730 --> 00:09:24.559 was kind of fell into that trap of feeling I needed to be everywhere all 149 00:09:24.600 --> 00:09:26.600 the time and pushing out content, pushing out content. So we had started, 150 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:31.000 like I mentioned, with email. We had a facebook account linked in 151 00:09:31.159 --> 00:09:35.840 and instagram and after about two and a half years and re kind of visiting 152 00:09:35.879 --> 00:09:39.149 strategy for all three of those, instagram was not performing for us and I 153 00:09:39.629 --> 00:09:41.909 had to pull the plug on it and it was a hard decision to make 154 00:09:41.950 --> 00:09:43.710 because, you know, there were some of our students that were involved in 155 00:09:43.789 --> 00:09:48.470 that platform, but it really wasn't getting the engagement we were we were expecting 156 00:09:48.549 --> 00:09:52.070 or what we wanted to and we had revisited the strategy a couple times and 157 00:09:52.269 --> 00:09:54.419 we decided to cancel that for now and put our efforts into the channels that 158 00:09:54.500 --> 00:09:58.100 were working and proving themselves really well. So we wanted to build those up 159 00:09:58.139 --> 00:10:03.179 and gain some more momentum there and focus our effort and really make good use 160 00:10:03.220 --> 00:10:05.019 of our time. Again, because I'm a one man show in that regard, 161 00:10:05.500 --> 00:10:09.370 I would rather put the effort into something I know is working at this 162 00:10:09.409 --> 00:10:13.009 point, with the goal of maybe reintroducing instagram later on. Right. Great, 163 00:10:13.330 --> 00:10:18.169 Dan, you mentioned earlier that working adults as a top persona that you 164 00:10:18.889 --> 00:10:24.080 go after. What are some of the other top personas that you are going 165 00:10:24.200 --> 00:10:28.320 after and what is your approach to content creation as you try to connect with 166 00:10:28.399 --> 00:10:31.559 them? Yeah, I mean so, like you mentioned, the adult learner 167 00:10:31.639 --> 00:10:33.879 returning to schools is a big one, whether they, and a lot of 168 00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:37.789 them, don't have northern experience, previous northern experience. So those are their 169 00:10:37.830 --> 00:10:41.789 fresh to northern and then our second, I would say our top two personas 170 00:10:41.830 --> 00:10:43.669 would be that adult learner that doesn't have northern experience and then a re entry 171 00:10:43.710 --> 00:10:48.509 student to northern that may be stopped out for some reason, whether it be 172 00:10:48.590 --> 00:10:50.620 because of grades or family situations, they weren't able to complete their degree and 173 00:10:50.620 --> 00:10:54.340 they're just looking to come back because they have that affinity with northern. They 174 00:10:54.419 --> 00:10:58.340 know what to expect as far as education goes. So I mean, I 175 00:10:58.379 --> 00:11:01.659 think that would probably be actually our top persona that we're that we're after right 176 00:11:01.700 --> 00:11:03.809 now, because it's, I'll say, it's lowhanging fruit. You know, 177 00:11:03.929 --> 00:11:09.090 they have that private previous experience with Northern, which really really helps their confidence 178 00:11:09.129 --> 00:11:13.450 level in choosing us again to complete. Now the online learning environment is much 179 00:11:13.450 --> 00:11:15.850 different than what they experience, you know, as a freshman coming in fresh 180 00:11:15.850 --> 00:11:18.049 out of high school. So helping them understand what that's going to be like 181 00:11:18.210 --> 00:11:22.639 as a challenge. But I think for both of these these personas, these 182 00:11:22.679 --> 00:11:26.679 avatars, whatever you want to call them, are, approach to content development 183 00:11:26.720 --> 00:11:31.200 and design is very specific because, and this really isn't unique just to online 184 00:11:31.240 --> 00:11:35.470 learners, it's it should be common practice and marketing across the board, I 185 00:11:35.549 --> 00:11:39.350 think. But if we're not focused on being hyper relevant to our students, 186 00:11:39.789 --> 00:11:45.309 they're going to dismiss us. It's online learning is becoming much more competitive. 187 00:11:45.549 --> 00:11:48.299 There's a lot more programs and especially with the pandemic. I think a lot 188 00:11:48.340 --> 00:11:50.860 more institutions have become confident in their online delivery, so I would expect a 189 00:11:50.940 --> 00:11:56.580 lot more programs and courses will be popping up. So it makes me kind 190 00:11:56.620 --> 00:12:00.139 of go on the offense of being how can we be more competitive, how 191 00:12:00.179 --> 00:12:03.330 can we more appealing? How can we deliver the information in a way that's 192 00:12:03.330 --> 00:12:05.409 very specific to these students? And that's what really guides my content creation and 193 00:12:07.009 --> 00:12:11.049 I've kind of developed a strategy. I call it being generally specific. So 194 00:12:11.129 --> 00:12:13.210 I think through all this information I talked about, these initial emails I set 195 00:12:13.210 --> 00:12:16.279 up talking about just the main touch points, when they apply, when they're 196 00:12:16.279 --> 00:12:20.080 admitted, once they completed an orientation, that kind of stuff. Those that's 197 00:12:20.159 --> 00:12:24.159 general information everybody needs to know, helping them get through the process in a 198 00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:26.759 general way just so they can actually progress. But if you're taking things and 199 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:31.789 taking that general information and making it hyper applicable and hyper specific to individual students 200 00:12:31.830 --> 00:12:35.190 and what their needs are, that's where that magic is going to happen. 201 00:12:35.190 --> 00:12:37.429 And what I mean by this would be so, for instance, if we 202 00:12:37.509 --> 00:12:41.909 have somebody coming through our initial RFI form, just raising their hand, they 203 00:12:41.909 --> 00:12:46.740 want to get some information about studying online at northern and they indicate will use 204 00:12:46.779 --> 00:12:48.860 our Ur ndbsn program as an example. They want to learn more about that 205 00:12:48.940 --> 00:12:54.899 program so the initial email that goes out to them is delivered within the hour. 206 00:12:54.059 --> 00:12:58.299 Our system has a timing thing, so that's the soon as we can 207 00:12:58.340 --> 00:13:01.850 get it out, but within an hour they're delivered a very specific email that 208 00:13:01.929 --> 00:13:05.570 addresses their interest in the URN rndobsn program online. We take their state of 209 00:13:05.730 --> 00:13:09.970 residency into account as well, so if they're outside of the state of Michigan, 210 00:13:09.049 --> 00:13:13.200 we have some information we provide that way. And then we also collect 211 00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:16.879 information on their their student type, so whether they're an incoming freshman, a 212 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:20.240 transfer student or re entry northern student or a post baculaureate. And while the 213 00:13:20.519 --> 00:13:24.120 I sage just still conveying the same information with the program there are nuances to 214 00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:28.950 each of these programs that would be relevant to different student types or where they're 215 00:13:28.990 --> 00:13:31.070 from or, you know, their stage if they're transferring, in kind of 216 00:13:31.110 --> 00:13:35.629 how their credits work. So instead of just sending them general links to go 217 00:13:35.870 --> 00:13:37.750 and sort out the information themselves, we do all that work for them and 218 00:13:39.230 --> 00:13:43.179 it's delivered and populates in the emails for them automatically. So that's where the 219 00:13:43.179 --> 00:13:46.379 time comes in. We're doing all those work on the back end to really 220 00:13:46.860 --> 00:13:50.740 create content for the student when they're having this experience in their web browser. 221 00:13:50.059 --> 00:13:52.580 They're going to see what they need to see right away without having to sort 222 00:13:52.620 --> 00:13:56.009 and get lost, you know, and we don't want to lose them. 223 00:13:56.090 --> 00:13:58.889 So this is a way that we can help help them through that and be 224 00:13:58.009 --> 00:14:01.129 relevant. I really like that because I think that it's so important, and 225 00:14:01.250 --> 00:14:05.129 I talked to a lot of people about this, as let the computers do 226 00:14:05.250 --> 00:14:07.929 the the tasks and all the other things so that you can focus more on 227 00:14:07.090 --> 00:14:11.440 the on the relationships and being strategic. I love the fact that you're automating 228 00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:13.720 so much of that because, I mean, you know, the data is 229 00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:18.360 in the database. The computer should be able to figure out this person's out 230 00:14:18.360 --> 00:14:20.759 of state, so I'm going to insert this particular piece of contents that they 231 00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:24.110 have what they need and program specific and other things like that. So I 232 00:14:24.230 --> 00:14:28.750 think that that's so it's a critical thing that a lot of people miss is 233 00:14:28.909 --> 00:14:31.750 that really take advantage of these automated tools. You know, crm's are I 234 00:14:31.830 --> 00:14:35.789 mean, even if you use excel and word. There's ways to automate different 235 00:14:35.830 --> 00:14:39.299 things and take the time to figure that out. I think really pays off 236 00:14:39.419 --> 00:14:41.220 in the long run and at the end of the day it really makes it 237 00:14:41.340 --> 00:14:45.259 a better experience for the user, which is really what we're talking about. 238 00:14:45.700 --> 00:14:48.299 So I think that's a it's a really good point. Yeah, and when 239 00:14:48.299 --> 00:14:50.460 you're thinking about the content too, it's important, I think, to be 240 00:14:50.580 --> 00:14:54.529 thinking about the information you're collecting. And every institution I know operates very differently. 241 00:14:54.649 --> 00:15:00.009 So their methods of collecting information maybe a universal, universal form, or 242 00:15:00.169 --> 00:15:01.769 maybe they have the flexibility in the benefit of having their own where they can 243 00:15:01.769 --> 00:15:07.960 collect whatever information they want. But really being strategic and thoughtful about what information 244 00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:11.879 you're collecting to inform how your campaigns are going to be executed is really, 245 00:15:11.879 --> 00:15:13.440 really key. So if you're just asking for everything and really don't have a 246 00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:16.799 plan for how you're going to use it information, it's pointless. Right. 247 00:15:16.799 --> 00:15:18.919 It's a waste of the prospects time, it's a waste of your time. 248 00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:20.950 It's almost like the chicken before the egg. What comes first? Is a 249 00:15:20.990 --> 00:15:24.509 developing these forms of get leads, or is it thinking about how you're going 250 00:15:24.549 --> 00:15:26.350 to what types of messages you're going to send to these students to inform how 251 00:15:26.350 --> 00:15:28.549 you're going to build this form? Yeah, and I think that's a really 252 00:15:28.549 --> 00:15:33.110 a big conversation that needs to happen within, you know, departments. Yeah, 253 00:15:33.110 --> 00:15:33.950 and I think that that's a really good point too, because if you 254 00:15:33.990 --> 00:15:37.340 ask too much information, you're going to scare scare them away and they're going 255 00:15:37.340 --> 00:15:39.899 to be like I I'm not going to fill out an application just to get 256 00:15:39.940 --> 00:15:43.700 some information. And I think that's a balance that a lot of schools don't 257 00:15:43.700 --> 00:15:48.419 think about sometimes that you really put yourself in the in the shoes of your 258 00:15:48.500 --> 00:15:52.090 prospect who's a busy professional, you know, with with your particular audience, 259 00:15:52.129 --> 00:15:54.889 their busy professionals. They're trying to get answers to the questions that they have 260 00:15:56.129 --> 00:15:58.490 and they're trying to make some decisions in the middle of balancing work and life 261 00:15:58.570 --> 00:16:03.289 and and everything else. And if you're all the sudden asking them, you 262 00:16:03.370 --> 00:16:07.360 know, fifteen or twenty questions on an RFI, that is you're halfway down 263 00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:10.840 with an application at that point there, it's going to create a wall for 264 00:16:10.919 --> 00:16:14.320 them and I think that you're probably seeing that kind of thing in your data 265 00:16:14.440 --> 00:16:17.600 and that's probably helping you figure that out. So maybe you know, you 266 00:16:17.720 --> 00:16:19.309 mentioned data earlier and how you kind of go in to some of those, 267 00:16:21.029 --> 00:16:23.509 you know, analyzing your data to Chers to make better decisions, to choose 268 00:16:23.710 --> 00:16:27.309 the content and understand things. Tell us a little bit more about how you're 269 00:16:27.350 --> 00:16:32.750 using that, how you're how you're going about your data reviews. Yeah, 270 00:16:32.750 --> 00:16:36.299 that's a great question and it's been a big learning process and I'm I'm not 271 00:16:36.340 --> 00:16:37.259 going to claim to be an expert. I don't know if this ruins the 272 00:16:37.259 --> 00:16:41.460 episode or not, but it's worked for me so far. There's always so 273 00:16:41.500 --> 00:16:42.899 much more to learn and I love learning about this stuff. So I mean 274 00:16:42.899 --> 00:16:47.059 it's great too. That's I appreciate. What appreciate about your show. You 275 00:16:47.139 --> 00:16:48.490 know, can learn so much from the other professionals that are out there. 276 00:16:48.570 --> 00:16:52.289 But what I found to be helpful is when I'm looking through this data that 277 00:16:52.370 --> 00:16:56.769 we've collected from the way our students behave. Obviously I think it's pretty common 278 00:16:56.769 --> 00:17:00.879 to segment into three different different pieces. So the inquiry stage where they haven't 279 00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:04.240 submitted an application yet. You got that time with a student where they've submitted 280 00:17:04.279 --> 00:17:07.480 an application but they have not been they've not gotten an omissions decision yet, 281 00:17:07.640 --> 00:17:11.400 and then from those that have gotten their admission decision, what happens after that, 282 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:12.680 what steps that they take? So I've broke it into those three parts 283 00:17:14.200 --> 00:17:18.789 and then I took about a too, because our department was relatively new and 284 00:17:18.869 --> 00:17:22.150 I started. I took about a two to three year historical look at how 285 00:17:22.190 --> 00:17:26.150 our students behaved in that each of those stages. So what I was looking 286 00:17:26.190 --> 00:17:30.900 at was how long from their initial inquiry to when they submitted an application. 287 00:17:30.460 --> 00:17:33.019 On average, how long did it take a students in that that part of 288 00:17:33.059 --> 00:17:37.140 the funnel to take the next action? And that was really really helpful because 289 00:17:37.180 --> 00:17:41.299 that was able to inform how long I was going to run an email campaign 290 00:17:41.339 --> 00:17:45.130 for that group of students. And I think it's also important to like it's 291 00:17:45.490 --> 00:17:48.250 it's easy to want to try to catch every single person, but realizing if 292 00:17:48.289 --> 00:17:52.250 we're doing that, that's a always going to be a oneonone system and it's 293 00:17:52.289 --> 00:17:55.690 really hard to do that within an automated system. You have to kind of 294 00:17:56.410 --> 00:18:00.240 you have to reach the ninety percent almost, you know, and then backfill 295 00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:03.279 with individual communication for those it maybe don't fit that. So that's what helps 296 00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:07.519 me build the automations is looking at that time frame. So what I found 297 00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:10.960 in our information we had about a twomonth window that a student might be hanging 298 00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:14.509 out there. From an inquiry to an application, that was about the longest 299 00:18:14.509 --> 00:18:17.710 that they'd be in that that stage. And then from application to admission, 300 00:18:17.829 --> 00:18:21.589 but a two week window, and then from admitted to enrolled it's another two 301 00:18:21.630 --> 00:18:23.349 months, depending on when they're coming in. It depends on start terms. 302 00:18:23.349 --> 00:18:26.470 There's a lot of a lot of variables for sure, as I'm sure a 303 00:18:26.470 --> 00:18:29.259 lot of you understand, but that just gave me a framework to know. 304 00:18:29.500 --> 00:18:32.539 Okay, so if I've got two months to run an email campaign for this 305 00:18:32.579 --> 00:18:34.859 specific stage, let's break it apart. Are we doing a monthly email? 306 00:18:34.900 --> 00:18:37.539 Are we doing a weekly email? What does this look like? And it 307 00:18:37.619 --> 00:18:41.849 just kind of really helped shape that strategy a bit. So that was the 308 00:18:41.009 --> 00:18:45.609 key thing I was looking at and then from there it was looking back at 309 00:18:45.650 --> 00:18:48.930 any of the other sources we had off look at the inquiry stage, for 310 00:18:48.970 --> 00:18:52.210 example, like after after a students submitted their initial RFI. What other touch 311 00:18:52.289 --> 00:18:55.650 points at the university that did a lot of them seem to have? Was 312 00:18:55.690 --> 00:18:57.480 a phone calls, was it a virtual event of some sort, and that 313 00:18:57.559 --> 00:19:00.880 really just kind of helped develop a strategy a bit more as well. I 314 00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:06.240 liked it. Looking at it from the funnel phase. I think you've simplified 315 00:19:06.279 --> 00:19:07.920 it down to the three. I think some schools kind of look at it, 316 00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:12.029 and I'm a big believer that you have to resell your service every time, 317 00:19:12.309 --> 00:19:15.509 your product every time. I mean you're doing one type of sale in 318 00:19:15.549 --> 00:19:19.430 the inquiry phrase, you're doing another type of sale in the application phase, 319 00:19:19.470 --> 00:19:23.819 you're doing another type of sale after acceptance with deposit and and or getting them 320 00:19:23.900 --> 00:19:26.859 registered and all those things. I mean there's like four or five different sales 321 00:19:26.900 --> 00:19:32.619 processes even up to matriculation, and so it's so critical to even you know 322 00:19:32.700 --> 00:19:36.019 whether whether you're looking at ags adult and graduate students or whether you're looking at 323 00:19:36.019 --> 00:19:40.089 traditional Undergrad or transfer. I think that there's just so much ways to use 324 00:19:40.130 --> 00:19:41.769 that date and I think that's a really, really great point. So thanks 325 00:19:41.769 --> 00:19:45.210 for sharing that. Yeah, and I think related to that to there's such 326 00:19:45.210 --> 00:19:48.529 a tendency, and I keep focusing on email. That's the big focus that 327 00:19:48.569 --> 00:19:52.089 I have right now is getting that nailed down. There's a tendency to just 328 00:19:52.210 --> 00:19:56.359 put all this, all these hyper links into emails. Like, if anybody's 329 00:19:56.400 --> 00:19:59.680 thinking to their inbox, nobody likes to see any email like that unless you're 330 00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:03.319 like specifically signing up for a newsletter. We were expecting multiple links, but 331 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:07.789 if we're blasting students with that kind of information unwarranted, it's it's really not 332 00:20:07.829 --> 00:20:10.349 going to get any performance on that. So if the beauty of that is 333 00:20:10.470 --> 00:20:12.589 okay, so you've got this email with tons of hyperlinks, like you have 334 00:20:12.750 --> 00:20:15.789 basically the content you need for a campaign right there. Let's break it apart 335 00:20:15.789 --> 00:20:19.509 in two separate emails, deliver it to them and small, bite sized chunks. 336 00:20:19.509 --> 00:20:23.299 or it's not so overwhelming. And a lot of times I'm finding even 337 00:20:23.339 --> 00:20:26.740 with other within other departments at the university, that they already have the content 338 00:20:26.819 --> 00:20:30.900 they need to build out a full campaign. It's just instead of sending it 339 00:20:30.940 --> 00:20:33.460 in one or two emails, we can spread it out into nine or ten 340 00:20:33.539 --> 00:20:37.490 maybe to increase the lifespan of that Daan. We like to close each episode 341 00:20:37.490 --> 00:20:41.089 by asking our guests for a power nugget, something that you're doing or maybe 342 00:20:41.089 --> 00:20:45.769 you read about that could immediately be implemented by others. Do you have anything 343 00:20:45.849 --> 00:20:48.490 that you can share her, I mean without restating the generally specific thing, 344 00:20:48.529 --> 00:20:52.680 has been really helpful for me. I'd say. The other piece is really 345 00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:56.519 kind of elaborating at what I just mentioned. would be focusing in an email 346 00:20:56.759 --> 00:21:00.839 on one action step, maybe even to depending on you know what the actually 347 00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:03.039 emails designed for. But if you're really looking for student to take an action 348 00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:06.789 in the funnel, that has to be the primary focus. So don't bog 349 00:21:06.869 --> 00:21:10.549 it down with other things that they can get distracted on go down different rabbit 350 00:21:10.589 --> 00:21:12.309 holes. If you want them to apply, make that your your action. 351 00:21:12.789 --> 00:21:15.509 Maybe have a couple links to the application for admission. If you want them 352 00:21:15.549 --> 00:21:18.380 to fill out a request for information form, if you're buying lists and things 353 00:21:18.460 --> 00:21:22.859 like that, literally your only action they can take should be to fill out 354 00:21:22.900 --> 00:21:26.900 that form. There's a bit of a craft, I guess, with creating 355 00:21:26.940 --> 00:21:30.980 benefit messaging with an action, but if you keep them pretty short and sweet 356 00:21:30.980 --> 00:21:33.410 there's more likely a chance that they're going to actually click through and take the 357 00:21:33.450 --> 00:21:37.690 action you want. It's great, perfect. Thank you, Dan. And 358 00:21:37.569 --> 00:21:41.890 what's the best way for people to get ahold of you if they would like 359 00:21:41.049 --> 00:21:45.369 to? Probably the easiest way would be on Linkedin, just you can search 360 00:21:45.369 --> 00:21:48.599 for my name, Dan Freeborne. I'm there. Feel free to message me 361 00:21:48.680 --> 00:21:51.319 of any questions that you have. Would love to just hear what everybody's up 362 00:21:51.319 --> 00:21:53.880 to and what strategies are. I love collaborating that way. Thank you and 363 00:21:53.920 --> 00:21:57.160 Dan, it's been a pleasure speaking with you today. Thanks for having me, 364 00:21:57.559 --> 00:22:00.509 Bart. Do you have any parting thoughts? Before we wrap up, 365 00:22:00.630 --> 00:22:03.950 I just want to thank Dan too, just for being a guest on the 366 00:22:03.990 --> 00:22:07.829 show. I think it's been very valuable, Dan, and I think that 367 00:22:07.150 --> 00:22:11.069 I love the fact that you are really focused so much on this sun on 368 00:22:11.150 --> 00:22:15.390 the clear content that email can do, and I'm a big believer that the 369 00:22:15.549 --> 00:22:18.180 power hour of email is still there. I think you know, obviously with 370 00:22:18.259 --> 00:22:22.380 a GS, I think that that's their primary mode of doing that. Whether 371 00:22:22.420 --> 00:22:26.380 your Gen wire, jen x or boomers, that's the email is going to 372 00:22:26.420 --> 00:22:30.289 be the conduit. But I think even when you look at Gen Z and 373 00:22:30.569 --> 00:22:33.490 and parents, email can be a very powerful thing as well. You just 374 00:22:33.609 --> 00:22:37.769 have to kind of look at it slightly differently for generation Z and augment it 375 00:22:37.849 --> 00:22:40.130 with a few other things. But if you can copy mom and dad on 376 00:22:40.210 --> 00:22:44.170 that for the traditional you're right back in the sweet spot with email, and 377 00:22:44.289 --> 00:22:47.519 so I love what you've shared today and I love the the content that you've 378 00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:52.160 talked about. So thanks again. Absolutely well said. And now we end 379 00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:56.839 every episode with our commercial. The High Reed Marketer podcast is sponsored by Kao 380 00:22:56.039 --> 00:23:02.750 Solutions and Education, marketing and branding agency and by thing patented, a marketing, 381 00:23:02.789 --> 00:23:06.950 execution, printing and mailing provider of high it solutions. On behalf of 382 00:23:07.109 --> 00:23:11.869 my cohost Bark Taylor, I'm troy singer. Thank you for listening and supporting 383 00:23:11.950 --> 00:23:18.380 our podcast. You've been listening to the Higher Ed Marketer. To ensure that 384 00:23:18.500 --> 00:23:22.539 you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. 385 00:23:22.420 --> 00:23:26.660 If you're listening with apple PODCASTS, we'd love for you to leave a 386 00:23:26.700 --> 00:23:30.170 quick rating of the show. Simply tap the number of stars you think the 387 00:23:30.210 --> 00:23:32.690 podcast deserves. Until next time.