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Sept. 13, 2022

Making the Case for a Liberal Arts Education

Making the Case for a Liberal Arts Education

The liberal arts education has evolved. Students not only need skills developed from classic education subjects for career readiness but also to be able to continuously adjust as the world around them changes. They need the ability to learn how to learn. 

Dr. Lake Lambert began his tenure as the 16th President of Hanover College in 2015 and is the former Dean of the College of Liberal Arts at Mercer University in Macon, Ga. In this episode, Dr. Lambert outlines how Hannover College markets the concept of the liberal arts and gives examples of how to use statistics and stories to reach students.  

Join us as we discuss:

  • What does a well-rounded education mean for career readiness
  • How to market to high school students and parents who are often focused on job readiness 
  • Dr. Lambert's thoughts on the value of liberal arts curriculum 

The Higher Ed Marketer podcast is sponsored by Caylor Solutions, an Education Marketing and Branding Agency, and by Think Patented, a Marketing Execution, Printing and Mailing provider of Higher Ed solutions.

    

 

Transcript

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:06.240 The High Red Marketing podcast is sponsored by the ZEMI APP enabling colleges and universities 2 00:00:06.480 --> 00:00:15.160 to engage interested students before they even apply. You're listening to the Higher Ed 3 00:00:15.240 --> 00:00:20.480 Marketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals in higher education. This show will 4 00:00:20.519 --> 00:00:25.399 tackle all sorts of questions related to student recruitment, donor relations, marketing trends, 5 00:00:25.399 --> 00:00:30.160 new technologies and so much more. If you're looking for conversations centered around 6 00:00:30.199 --> 00:00:34.359 where the industry is going, this podcast is for you. Let's get into 7 00:00:34.359 --> 00:00:46.719 the show. I'm here with Bart Taylor and today we talked to Dr Lake 8 00:00:46.880 --> 00:00:53.840 Lambert from Hanover College, and Dr Lambert makes an excellent case for a liberal 9 00:00:53.920 --> 00:01:00.759 arts education and I think he wouldn't mind if other liberal art educators and marketers 10 00:01:00.280 --> 00:01:06.840 took some of the suggestions that we discuss and rise all boats. What say 11 00:01:06.879 --> 00:01:08.719 you, Bart? I agree with that. I think that Dr Lambert does 12 00:01:08.719 --> 00:01:15.680 a great job of kind of outlining the way that they market the liberal arts 13 00:01:15.760 --> 00:01:19.599 at Hanover College and I think that he's very Um, very clear on that 14 00:01:19.719 --> 00:01:25.200 with with just being able to articulate that well and give some examples of of 15 00:01:25.239 --> 00:01:30.719 how to combine the statistics and the stories with everything. I think it reminds 16 00:01:30.719 --> 00:01:33.599 me a lot of the episode that we had with Scott Feller from wabash college 17 00:01:34.400 --> 00:01:37.879 his passion about the liberal arts as well, and I know that a lot 18 00:01:37.920 --> 00:01:40.760 of schools that are listening to the podcast, I mean you might be a 19 00:01:40.799 --> 00:01:44.159 smaller private and liberal arts are a big part of your DNA, and so 20 00:01:44.200 --> 00:01:47.799 I think that there's a lot of really good practical advice in this episode for 21 00:01:47.879 --> 00:01:52.920 you on how to market that. Here's our conversation with Dr Lake Lambert. 22 00:01:55.159 --> 00:01:57.640 Dr Lambert, before we get into the meat of our conversation, I'd like 23 00:01:57.719 --> 00:02:01.879 to know if you could share with our listeners. Is there anything interesting your 24 00:02:02.319 --> 00:02:08.919 or unique that you've learned recently? Yeah, I was at a meeting with 25 00:02:09.080 --> 00:02:16.360 some other college administrators and heard a really interesting presentation on the validity of the 26 00:02:16.639 --> 00:02:23.520 Bureau of Labor Statistics UH estimates of career growth in certain fields and what their 27 00:02:23.560 --> 00:02:28.360 track record is, which I found very interesting because so many of us in 28 00:02:28.439 --> 00:02:35.080 higher education rely on that data to make decisions about academic programs and career preparation 29 00:02:35.280 --> 00:02:39.439 programs and and I didn't realize how shaky that data really was and has made 30 00:02:39.439 --> 00:02:46.439 me think quite a bit about how much we rely on that data. Thank 31 00:02:46.520 --> 00:02:52.560 you if you would. Please tell everyone about Hanover college and a little bit 32 00:02:52.599 --> 00:02:55.840 about yourself, how long you've been there, et CETERA. Amber College is 33 00:02:55.879 --> 00:03:05.400 a small college located on the Ohio River in southern Indiana. If you we're 34 00:03:05.479 --> 00:03:10.120 traveling by a river, which happened when the college was founded in eighteen we 35 00:03:10.120 --> 00:03:16.120 were located halfway between Louisville, Kentucky and Cincinnati, Ohio, on the Ohio 36 00:03:16.240 --> 00:03:22.039 River, and that's how early students arrived at Hanover, was by riverboat. 37 00:03:22.080 --> 00:03:29.560 Today Hanover is a college of about eleven hundred students. That includes traditional residential 38 00:03:29.639 --> 00:03:38.319 undergraduates, but then also students in our new doctor of physical therapy program and 39 00:03:38.360 --> 00:03:42.120 I know Hanover is really known, or I shouldn't say really known, but 40 00:03:42.280 --> 00:03:46.039 one of the things that's known for it's this beautiful campus. It is. 41 00:03:46.319 --> 00:03:51.719 Our campus is six fifty acre sitting on a bluff over the Ohio River. 42 00:03:52.439 --> 00:03:57.759 We occupy about a hundred hundred twenty five of those acres. The rest of 43 00:03:57.800 --> 00:04:02.199 it is lush green space. Were over five miles of hiking trails on our 44 00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:08.879 campus and it's just a beautiful place to live and to study, and it's 45 00:04:08.879 --> 00:04:13.840 a great place if you love the outdoors and and you see that is an 46 00:04:13.879 --> 00:04:16.920 important part of your life, in a great way for you to relax and 47 00:04:16.959 --> 00:04:26.439 study too. Would really recommend listeners to research and to go out and look 48 00:04:26.480 --> 00:04:32.079 at some of the images on your website or by googling Hanover Bart and I 49 00:04:32.120 --> 00:04:35.600 would I would even suggest to a little plug for the college tour, because 50 00:04:35.639 --> 00:04:40.399 I know that you guys are are gonna are featured on the college tour and, 51 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:42.800 uh, you know, one of our other guests on the episode, 52 00:04:42.839 --> 00:04:46.360 Alex Boylan, was on campus with you and uh, I'm sure that they 53 00:04:46.360 --> 00:04:48.120 got some gorgeous shots. I saw one of the trailers the other day, 54 00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:51.279 and so that would be another way for everybody to kind of start to Um 55 00:04:53.000 --> 00:04:55.959 to really experience that. So I wanted to kind of get started on the 56 00:04:55.959 --> 00:04:58.279 first question here, Dr Lambert, and it kind of goes a little bit 57 00:04:58.319 --> 00:05:02.279 with what you started to say about what you learned about the Bureau of Labor 58 00:05:02.279 --> 00:05:08.800 Statistics and the idea that so much of of of career readiness and and and 59 00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:14.480 so many times colleges are so focused on which be focused on outcomes, but 60 00:05:14.519 --> 00:05:18.079 sometimes we kind of lose sight of we are preparing students for careers that don't 61 00:05:18.120 --> 00:05:21.560 even exist yet sometimes. And one of the things that I know in my 62 00:05:21.639 --> 00:05:26.879 own background, you know, I went to a small private college that focused 63 00:05:26.879 --> 00:05:30.480 a lot on the liberal arts, much like Hanover, that there's a reality 64 00:05:30.519 --> 00:05:34.879 that the liberal arts has really evolved and it's it's becoming kind of it's coming 65 00:05:34.959 --> 00:05:39.519 back into a very important part of education. Tell us a little bit about 66 00:05:39.519 --> 00:05:42.279 that in your thoughts on that. Certainly, the liberal arts has evolved ever 67 00:05:42.360 --> 00:05:46.120 since their origins in in the Greek and Roman times to now, and even 68 00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:51.920 in an American higher education that's evolved considerably too. When Hanover was founded, 69 00:05:51.920 --> 00:05:58.160 the Liberal Arts Mint that you read great books in Latin and in Greek and 70 00:05:58.240 --> 00:06:01.519 you read the Bible and he rue and the ancient languages, and that's what 71 00:06:01.560 --> 00:06:06.399 an education was and that's really what an education looked like a Hanover for almost 72 00:06:06.439 --> 00:06:13.040 a hundred years from its founding. But then as times changed and we began 73 00:06:13.199 --> 00:06:17.199 to see the value of teaching about the sciences, teaching in English, uh, 74 00:06:17.240 --> 00:06:21.360 and the repertoire of what we consider to be an important part of the 75 00:06:21.399 --> 00:06:27.399 liberal arts has changed. That's Pretty Fascinating, Dr Lambert, and I really 76 00:06:27.920 --> 00:06:31.319 really like the history of of how you just outlaid the liberal arts education. 77 00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:35.439 But I think kind of getting back to kind of the the idea of how 78 00:06:35.480 --> 00:06:39.920 critical it is going into the twenty one century, or now that we're in 79 00:06:39.920 --> 00:06:43.360 the century and we're not going into it, but how critical it is for 80 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:46.279 students to be able to have more of that well rounded education. Um, 81 00:06:46.480 --> 00:06:49.439 why don't we talk a bit about that in the application of what that means 82 00:06:49.560 --> 00:06:56.040 for career readiness? Well, in Hannabal we really like to talk about combining 83 00:06:56.680 --> 00:07:00.160 a liberal arts education with career readiness, that it's not a choice that a 84 00:07:00.199 --> 00:07:05.720 student has to make, but instead they should see it as different parts of 85 00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:13.519 the same path, a question of breath and depth, of what I also 86 00:07:13.639 --> 00:07:18.480 describe as long term thinking and short term thinking, or an immediate impact in 87 00:07:18.519 --> 00:07:23.279 the short term when a student graduates. Yes, absolutely, you need to 88 00:07:23.279 --> 00:07:27.959 be career ready, but to be able to continue to adjust and change as 89 00:07:28.040 --> 00:07:31.920 the world arounds you changes, you need the long term benefits that the liberal 90 00:07:32.040 --> 00:07:38.279 arts curriculum provides, because that was going to develop those great critical thinking skills, 91 00:07:38.319 --> 00:07:42.920 the communication skills and expose you to a variety of subject areas that you're 92 00:07:42.920 --> 00:07:45.480 going to be able to turn to and build on for the rest of your 93 00:07:45.480 --> 00:07:47.279 life. That's great. So I think that kind of what I'm hearing you 94 00:07:47.319 --> 00:07:50.839 say is that you know it's not either or. I mean I think sometimes 95 00:07:50.879 --> 00:07:55.079 people have always thought in the past, at least. You know, thirty 96 00:07:55.120 --> 00:07:57.800 five years ago, forty years ago, when when I went to school, 97 00:07:58.160 --> 00:07:59.920 it was kind of like, well, are you going to go this path 98 00:08:00.160 --> 00:08:03.399 or you're gonna go this path? And I think that even though I went 99 00:08:03.480 --> 00:08:05.879 to one path, it felt like it was the liberal arts, felt a 100 00:08:05.879 --> 00:08:09.879 little bit more like it was bolted on rather than what I'm hearing you describe 101 00:08:09.879 --> 00:08:13.480 as integrated at at Hanover College, and so I think that's I think that 102 00:08:13.680 --> 00:08:16.920 even makes it more relevant. Is that what you're finding with your students? 103 00:08:16.879 --> 00:08:22.120 I think it's about relevancy and and it's also about the reality of how the 104 00:08:22.240 --> 00:08:26.279 world works. Uh. An employer today wants to know that you can make 105 00:08:26.279 --> 00:08:30.759 an immediate impact when you come into their organization. They want to know that 106 00:08:30.879 --> 00:08:33.039 you have a certain set of skills in ways that you can add value when 107 00:08:33.080 --> 00:08:37.639 you arrive. But then also too, you need to know that over the 108 00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:43.200 course of a career in a lifetime that you can adapt to developing into new 109 00:08:43.320 --> 00:08:46.639 careers that don't even exist now. So both of those are essential. And 110 00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:50.600 the idea that you have to choose, I would say that that type of 111 00:08:50.720 --> 00:08:56.639 dualistic thinking is exactly what a liberal arts education always challenges. that. It's 112 00:08:56.679 --> 00:09:01.720 not about you just don't choose either or you always have to think critically about 113 00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:05.120 how it's it can be both and I love that and I and I remember 114 00:09:05.200 --> 00:09:09.159 we had another guest on the episodes on the High Ed Marketer Podcast, Mark 115 00:09:09.240 --> 00:09:13.159 mccrendall. He's one of the leading researchers and and uh, actually the person 116 00:09:13.240 --> 00:09:18.240 who coined the term generation Alpha, which is the next Alpha that's coming. 117 00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:22.360 He was on the podcast number of episodes again and he talked about the idea 118 00:09:22.440 --> 00:09:24.639 that it's being predicted, based on the research that he and his firm are 119 00:09:24.679 --> 00:09:28.840 doing, that generation Alpha students and for everybody who doesn't know, that is 120 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:33.440 the generation after what we know as generation Z. and so those kids right 121 00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:37.399 now are seventh eighth grade, like twelve years old. They will be, 122 00:09:37.879 --> 00:09:39.519 you know, they'll be looking at colleges here in the next two or three 123 00:09:39.559 --> 00:09:43.879 years. So we're gonna make a quick pivot from generation Z to talking a 124 00:09:43.879 --> 00:09:46.919 lot about generation Alpha. But in Mark's research he said that, you know, 125 00:09:48.200 --> 00:09:52.080 it's predicted that those kids will have ten to twelve career changes throughout their 126 00:09:52.120 --> 00:09:54.960 lifetime. Now, certainly they will have longer lives than we do, but 127 00:09:56.120 --> 00:09:58.720 the idea that you know, I remember my dad had one career Um, 128 00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:03.679 you know, and and you know a lot of the boomers have have experienced 129 00:10:03.720 --> 00:10:05.320 that. But when now we're getting ready to go into an Alpha that's going 130 00:10:05.360 --> 00:10:09.519 to have ten to twelve career changes, or at least changes in their job. 131 00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:13.000 So that's, you know, all the more reason to me, it 132 00:10:13.080 --> 00:10:16.399 seems like for the for the basis of a liberal arts education. I agree 133 00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:22.720 completely. It's it's only the world is only accelerating, changes only accelerating and 134 00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:26.240 we have to be ready for that. I think the challenge if you're a 135 00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:31.559 seventeen year old is understanding what long term thinking means versus short term thinking. 136 00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:37.919 I sometimes say that an eighteen year old sooner rise at Hanover College a year 137 00:10:37.080 --> 00:10:41.960 is long term. But uh, and so trying to help understand ancer to 138 00:10:41.039 --> 00:10:46.320 what the differences between long term and short term is uh, it is a 139 00:10:46.440 --> 00:10:50.559 relative and perhaps generational thing too. So we're always trying to educate not only 140 00:10:50.600 --> 00:10:54.679 our students, but then also to educating their families and others who are engaged 141 00:10:54.759 --> 00:10:58.639 in the decision making, about about choosing a college, paying for college, 142 00:10:58.799 --> 00:11:03.919 All all those all those folks are involved in that decision and they need to 143 00:11:03.519 --> 00:11:07.600 think carefully about the help those factors as well. Yeah, what I'm hearing 144 00:11:07.639 --> 00:11:11.440 you say is that idea of, you know, looking at life focused rather 145 00:11:11.519 --> 00:11:13.879 than year to year. Um, that's where, at least for me, 146 00:11:15.000 --> 00:11:18.639 I know with my liberal arts education, you know I can I can manage 147 00:11:18.679 --> 00:11:22.279 people better, I can understand things that are going on in the world better. 148 00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:26.080 You know, having access and have read some of those those great books 149 00:11:26.159 --> 00:11:31.440 and and having a little bit more well rounded. I can even tell now, 150 00:11:31.759 --> 00:11:35.120 you know, thirty years out of my college education, how big a 151 00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:37.960 difference that makes even in my day to day you know what? What I 152 00:11:37.080 --> 00:11:43.039 learned as a technique thirty years ago, Poto graphic design major, and so 153 00:11:43.559 --> 00:11:46.480 the way that we did a technique back then has changed drastically with the computer 154 00:11:46.600 --> 00:11:52.440 age. But what I learned in the way that I thought critically hasn't changed 155 00:11:52.480 --> 00:11:56.279 and I used that more every day. Critical thinking and communication are timeless. 156 00:11:56.840 --> 00:12:03.200 The things that you communicate about and the things that that you think about may 157 00:12:03.320 --> 00:12:07.360 change, but developing those school skills are are essential. And then I'll add 158 00:12:07.399 --> 00:12:13.440 to that then the reality that for a lot of folks as they as they 159 00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:16.639 move up the ladder from a career perspective, one of the key opportunities that 160 00:12:16.759 --> 00:12:20.039 they have to move up and and to make more money for that matter, 161 00:12:20.519 --> 00:12:26.799 is to lead and manage people and those types of skills that you develop in 162 00:12:26.799 --> 00:12:31.120 a little arts education, empathy, Um understanding of others, uh, the 163 00:12:31.240 --> 00:12:39.679 ability to navigate difference, include from different cultures, two different ideas and communicating, 164 00:12:39.879 --> 00:12:45.039 those are all key to being a successful leader too, and that's that's 165 00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:50.480 only going to make someone's career better long term. That's great. I can't 166 00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:54.200 agree more. We talk a lot about it on the show. Schools are 167 00:12:54.240 --> 00:12:58.559 really struggling today to make the same at spend work. CPMS are up over 168 00:12:58.679 --> 00:13:03.600 year on facebook and instagram. Our College clients are no longer looking for rented 169 00:13:03.639 --> 00:13:09.120 audiences. They're looking for an owned community where they can engage students even before 170 00:13:09.159 --> 00:13:13.000 they apply. This is why Zemi has become so crucial for our clients. 171 00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:18.480 With over one million students, close to ten thousand five star ratings, consistently 172 00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:22.840 ranked as one of the top social apps and recently one of Apple's hot APPs 173 00:13:22.879 --> 00:13:26.159 of the week, there simply isn't anything out there like it, and we 174 00:13:26.399 --> 00:13:28.879 have seen it all. Zem Me not only provides the best space for student 175 00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:33.759 engagement, but the most unique and actional data for their one sixty college and 176 00:13:33.960 --> 00:13:39.639 university partners. We know firsthand from our clients that Ze me is a must 177 00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:45.279 have strategy for Gen z check them out now at colleges dot Zem dot com. 178 00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:52.080 That's colleges dot Z E M E dot Com. And yes, tell 179 00:13:52.120 --> 00:13:56.120 them Barton Troy sent you. I believe we're all in agreement to what you 180 00:13:56.200 --> 00:14:01.159 say and how you describe, especially the combination and but let's talk about how 181 00:14:01.279 --> 00:14:07.559 to effectively market that too. Seventeen and eighteen year olds, where, in 182 00:14:07.720 --> 00:14:13.639 my opinion, a lot of them are still thinking job readiness. Well, 183 00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:18.159 I think that if you don't address that, then then you will have missed 184 00:14:18.200 --> 00:14:22.200 your audience, and so you have to come out strong and and and make 185 00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:26.799 the case, and as we do it Hanover, that you're gonna be ready 186 00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:33.519 for work or ready for what's next immediately after after handover college. Maybe that's 187 00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:37.679 advanced education, but maybe that's a job, and we're going to have all 188 00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:41.679 of that for you. But it doesn't stop there. It has to be 189 00:14:41.879 --> 00:14:45.360 much more and it has to be not only this first job and it has 190 00:14:45.399 --> 00:14:48.240 to be that job beyond. So I don't think that you can shy away 191 00:14:48.559 --> 00:14:54.080 from answering that immediate concern. And and there's good reasons for families to have 192 00:14:54.360 --> 00:14:58.279 that immediate concern and for students. Some of that has to do simply with 193 00:14:58.399 --> 00:15:03.240 the cost to higher education. Some of that has to do, I think 194 00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:05.360 we have to be very honest, it has to do with debt and wanting 195 00:15:05.440 --> 00:15:09.799 to know sort of how college debt and career go together. And so unless 196 00:15:09.879 --> 00:15:13.679 we can answer to that question, then I think that we will lose students 197 00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:18.200 and then higher and then liberal arts education will be what it was often accused 198 00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:22.360 of being and only for the elite. And Uh, and that's not what 199 00:15:22.519 --> 00:15:24.480 it is. So so um. So it, how always has to be 200 00:15:24.559 --> 00:15:30.320 this both in but I don't mind leading with career readiness. Now sometimes I 201 00:15:30.360 --> 00:15:33.840 will tell you that my liberal arts faculty aren't happy with that conversation that I'm 202 00:15:33.919 --> 00:15:37.639 that I'm willing to lead and talk about career readiness, but I'm always having 203 00:15:37.759 --> 00:15:43.559 the conversation with them that Um that wanting to make a living and to support 204 00:15:43.600 --> 00:15:48.840 yourself in your family. There's nothing dishonorable in that. It's there's nothing wrong 205 00:15:48.919 --> 00:15:52.000 with that, but on the other hand we have to tell our students that 206 00:15:52.559 --> 00:15:58.159 that the only purpose in life is not to make a living. There's much 207 00:15:58.279 --> 00:16:03.639 more to life than a job up and and money. So those are always 208 00:16:03.679 --> 00:16:07.080 inn the cross points. Yeah, I think that's so good and I know 209 00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:10.000 that when we had Peter Ashley, you know, one of the one of 210 00:16:10.039 --> 00:16:14.159 the members, they're on your team at Hanover, on the podcast last year 211 00:16:14.639 --> 00:16:15.480 and I know one of the things that he talked about was, you know, 212 00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:18.960 the way that you guys kind of manage that tension of being able to 213 00:16:19.480 --> 00:16:23.039 tell the stories and be able to utilize, you know, video and and 214 00:16:23.240 --> 00:16:27.159 very creative means of being able to tell those stories, but also, you 215 00:16:27.200 --> 00:16:30.240 know, recognize that some of those stories are going to include the outcomes the 216 00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:34.879 career readiness, some of them are gonna include the value of what a you 217 00:16:34.919 --> 00:16:40.519 know, what a private education and the value that is inherently there, uh, 218 00:16:40.840 --> 00:16:44.759 that sometimes we get lost in, you know, sticker price and and 219 00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:48.480 and all kinds of things, that we really have to push that value statement 220 00:16:48.559 --> 00:16:52.240 and those those value propositions and then sometimes really kind of being able to clearly 221 00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:56.000 articulate the distinctives. And I know Peter, you know, articulated that well 222 00:16:56.039 --> 00:17:00.759 and talked a lot about what you all are doing there. But I guess 223 00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:03.000 what I'm hearing you saying is that sometimes we've got to yoke those statistics, 224 00:17:03.119 --> 00:17:08.359 those data, that outcomes, pull them together into these stories and then we've 225 00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:14.480 that together to really create the whole marketing picture rather than just doing it either 226 00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:18.200 or, which gets back to you know, what the liberal arts is about 227 00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:22.279 is kind of looking at the holistic point of everything and and so maybe you 228 00:17:22.279 --> 00:17:23.880 can kind of speak to that a little bit about just even how you, 229 00:17:25.039 --> 00:17:26.960 when you talk to parents, are kind of doing that a little bit of 230 00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:30.799 that dance of you know, Hey, I've got to talk about career readiness 231 00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:33.720 and I've got to talk about the statistics and the data, but I've also 232 00:17:33.759 --> 00:17:37.279 got to pull in these stories of of of our alumni and how they're how 233 00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:41.720 they're living life. Yeah, it's hard to get excited about statistics. It 234 00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:45.799 doesn't matter what the statistic is, and it doesn't matter even if it's the 235 00:17:47.720 --> 00:17:52.000 if it's the statistic that you want Um or that your brain says is really 236 00:17:52.119 --> 00:17:56.960 good. Uh. And it doesn't mean that those statistics don't matter, but 237 00:17:57.240 --> 00:18:03.319 you have to be able to tell a story about a full and complete LFE 238 00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:10.680 that shapes around that statistics, because statistics are snapshots. They're they're singularly focused 239 00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:14.160 on a certain piece and you can, you can put together a lot of 240 00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:18.240 them. But but humans are holistic, and so telling a story really helps 241 00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:23.359 us to see the holistic picture. And UH. And then yoking those statistics 242 00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:29.039 with stories and and uh or video, especially now. I think that's sort 243 00:18:29.079 --> 00:18:32.720 of the way of the future, to be able to tell what that looks 244 00:18:32.759 --> 00:18:34.480 like. Those are those are great things and that's one of the things that 245 00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:38.599 we're really pleased about the college tour being able to do for us, is 246 00:18:38.680 --> 00:18:44.799 to is to make some of the of the outcomes of handover college that we 247 00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:49.279 will list in our on our website come alive and the stories of students and 248 00:18:49.599 --> 00:18:55.359 and the things that they're doing at Hanover and beyond. Yeah, it's kind 249 00:18:55.359 --> 00:19:00.400 of hard to get emotional about statistics, but stories can really stir our oceans 250 00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:03.640 and stir us to actions. So that's a really good point. Earlier in 251 00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:11.440 the conversation you described UH helping generation Z or future students, understand the difference 252 00:19:11.480 --> 00:19:15.759 between a short term play and a long term play, and would like to 253 00:19:15.880 --> 00:19:19.880 ask you to expand upon some of the ways that you get them thinking about 254 00:19:21.079 --> 00:19:25.400 the long term play as you're marketing to them or even when they're on campus. 255 00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:30.759 Well, oftentimes you start only with the student but also with their families 256 00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:36.480 who are visiting with them and and the we recognize, and I think this 257 00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:40.559 is especially true in Gen Z, that that these are family decisions and so 258 00:19:40.680 --> 00:19:44.960 I think talking to the families, often the family, the family and the 259 00:19:45.079 --> 00:19:48.440 parents could have a better sense of that long term vision. But I think 260 00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:56.680 helping students to understand that your academic major isn't your destiny, being able to 261 00:19:56.799 --> 00:20:02.519 tell stories of alumni of the college had majors in certain areas but then ended 262 00:20:02.599 --> 00:20:06.759 up in careers that they that they would never have imagined. We have a 263 00:20:06.839 --> 00:20:11.839 really good statistical dat to that tracks students and we can say what their their 264 00:20:11.920 --> 00:20:18.000 fields of endeavor after Hanover have been from that major and and and they're not. 265 00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:22.759 There's not a perfect alignment. And and anyone who has engaged in little 266 00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:26.160 large education knows that just because you're an English major doesn't mean that your only 267 00:20:26.240 --> 00:20:30.079 option is is to be an English teacher and editor or or or something like 268 00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:36.960 that. It your options are almost enlist and and trying to help folks understand 269 00:20:37.079 --> 00:20:41.759 that so that they again can see and think long term. UH, study 270 00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:45.200 and and be passionate about a certain thing that you that you want to study, 271 00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:48.119 but I don't think that that's going to limit your long term options. 272 00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:52.200 I love that. I love that because I've I mean I've I've got a 273 00:20:52.359 --> 00:20:56.160 you know, I've got, you know, two of my children of are 274 00:20:56.519 --> 00:21:00.440 in college, are already graduated. I've got two in high school and you 275 00:21:00.519 --> 00:21:03.319 know part of it. You know, I've got wanted a at a large 276 00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:06.920 state institution, you know, working, you know, on his engineering degree. 277 00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:08.960 I've got another one that went to a private liberal arts school that, 278 00:21:10.119 --> 00:21:12.559 you know, focused on he graduated with a journalism degree. And I think 279 00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:17.079 exactly what you're saying. There's there's that, there's that benefit that I see 280 00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:21.559 that that added element of the liberal arts that that really kind of add and 281 00:21:21.640 --> 00:21:23.039 I know that you know a lot of the state schools will talk about the 282 00:21:23.119 --> 00:21:27.200 general education elements that they're adding, but there is something a little bit deeper 283 00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:33.039 that when you have the the the room and the academic schedule and the room 284 00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:37.160 for some more of the deeper level liberal arts, UH, without having to 285 00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:41.720 get so focused on some of the tactics, tactics of of you know, 286 00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:45.319 a craft or or a you know, a skill, you've got the room 287 00:21:45.359 --> 00:21:47.720 to do that. So I think that's such a such a valuable thing to 288 00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:51.279 talk about that breadth and depth across the way. Well, I I don't. 289 00:21:51.319 --> 00:21:53.920 I think that's exactly right and uh, and it's something that we do 290 00:21:55.039 --> 00:21:57.319 on a regular basis and and then it's something that we have to hear because 291 00:21:57.480 --> 00:22:03.960 it's not a one time sale. The reality is is that students always have 292 00:22:03.039 --> 00:22:07.440 the opportunity. That's sort of when retention is not just about keeping them, 293 00:22:07.480 --> 00:22:11.839 it's about making the sale again year after year that they find value in staying 294 00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:18.400 and you're always making that case for for why this curriculum is valuable. Dr 295 00:22:18.519 --> 00:22:22.559 Lambert, as we closed the episode, would there be either a final thought 296 00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:26.839 that you would like to offer that we didn't cover, or maybe a piece 297 00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:32.720 of advice that uh people within your role, that you can offer them that 298 00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:38.119 they could implement soon after listening to the podcast. The best marketing is to 299 00:22:38.920 --> 00:22:45.680 connect stories and Statistics and the degree to which we can do that and what 300 00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:52.039 we say in how we communicate the message of obstitution, that's really where the 301 00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:56.599 winds are gonna are are going to be found for institutions in recruiting and in 302 00:22:56.720 --> 00:23:03.000 retention long terms. Thank you, Doctor. For those that would like to 303 00:23:03.079 --> 00:23:07.880 reach out to your contact you after they listen to the episode, what would 304 00:23:07.960 --> 00:23:11.160 be the best way for them to do that? Lambert at Andover Dot eedu. 305 00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:17.400 Thank you, and I'd also like to put in a plug that. 306 00:23:17.880 --> 00:23:22.039 You know, following you on social media is a wonderful follow both you and 307 00:23:22.279 --> 00:23:27.359 Hanover College. So we appreciate you putting out what you do. Bart. 308 00:23:27.720 --> 00:23:30.759 Do you have a final thought you'd like to share before we closed the episode? 309 00:23:32.200 --> 00:23:33.319 Yeah, I just want to highlight a couple of things that Dr Lambert 310 00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:37.079 said that I thought were so, so really good, and I really like 311 00:23:37.240 --> 00:23:40.200 that last element that he talked about with you know, if you have to, 312 00:23:40.519 --> 00:23:42.160 you know, leaving this afternoon and going out and and being able to 313 00:23:42.200 --> 00:23:45.079 start looking at how can I start combining the data in the stories? How 314 00:23:45.160 --> 00:23:49.640 can I start making this data turn it into poll a story of somebody that's 315 00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:53.200 on campus that's actually living out the piece of data that you're trying to communicate 316 00:23:53.680 --> 00:23:56.400 and create emotion around that? I think that's gonna be one of the key 317 00:23:56.480 --> 00:24:00.440 elements. And then I also really liked what what Dr Lambert talked about. 318 00:24:00.519 --> 00:24:03.759 Is that, you know, all of us, when we talk about retention, 319 00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:06.599 sometimes we get so excited about marketing at the beginning, you know, 320 00:24:06.680 --> 00:24:10.720 during the admissions funnel, when they're that senior high school, and then we're 321 00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:12.920 getting them to matriculate as freshman in high school. I loved what Dr Lambert 322 00:24:12.960 --> 00:24:15.519 said about, you know, we have to do the sale year after year 323 00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:18.640 and I think sometimes we miss that as marketers, that we we think, 324 00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:22.000 okay, well, I've done my part, I've got them in the in 325 00:24:22.119 --> 00:24:26.200 the job and now it's student life responsibility, or now it's the professor's responsibility 326 00:24:26.200 --> 00:24:29.920 and faculty to kind of keep them around. Actually it's all of us and 327 00:24:30.359 --> 00:24:33.880 putting in marketing programs and ways to kind of continue to sell them on. 328 00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:37.920 that. I think is so critical and I really appreciate Dr we're kind of 329 00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:40.119 pointing that out. And then, finally, I just want to make sure 330 00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:44.000 that so many schools that are listening to this are smaller schools and they are 331 00:24:44.079 --> 00:24:47.400 going to be Um really trying to think about how do I differentiate myself? 332 00:24:47.480 --> 00:24:49.319 How do I how do I? You know, I'm small, I can't 333 00:24:49.359 --> 00:24:52.640 do this, I don't have budgets, those types of things. I think 334 00:24:52.680 --> 00:24:55.480 a lot of what Dr Lambert has talked about, and especially the smaller schools, 335 00:24:55.519 --> 00:25:00.119 you're probably already doing a lot of liberal arts education. Lean into that. 336 00:25:00.559 --> 00:25:02.640 Use that as one of your distinctives. Use that as a way to 337 00:25:02.839 --> 00:25:07.319 articulate what is different about you than you know, most small privates are competing 338 00:25:07.319 --> 00:25:11.960 against the community colleges and the state schools more than they are competing against the 339 00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:15.880 other schools, and so how can you differentiate yourself and really help people to 340 00:25:15.960 --> 00:25:18.079 see the value in that? So thanks again, Dr Lambert, for being 341 00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:22.640 on the show today. It's been such a blessing and a great pleasure to 342 00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:27.480 have you on. Thank you both. The Higher Ed Marketer podcast is sponsored 343 00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:33.200 by Kaylor solutions and education, marketing and branding agency and by thing patented, 344 00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:40.200 a marketing execution company combining direct mail and unique digital stacks for Higher Ed outreach 345 00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:45.480 success. I'm troy singer on behalf of my co host, Bart Kaylor. 346 00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:52.319 Thank you for listening. You've been listening to the Higher Ed Marketer. To 347 00:25:52.519 --> 00:25:56.279 ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite 348 00:25:56.319 --> 00:26:00.880 podcast player. If you're listening without the PODCASTS, we'd love for you to 349 00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:04.400 leave a quick rating of the show. Simply tap the number of stars you 350 00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:07.279 think the podcast deserves. Until next time,