Nov. 22, 2022

Empathic Storytelling: Identifying Appropriate Content for Your Audience

Empathic Storytelling: Identifying Appropriate Content for Your Audience

In higher ed marketing, it can be a struggle to understand who our target audience is and what their needs are.

Sometimes, that means pausing and stepping back to make space so we can meet them where they are through empathic storytelling.

Cutler Andrews , Senior Associate Vice President for Engagement, Communications, and Marketing at Emory University , shares how his team elevates Emory’s brand through impactful content.

Join us as we discuss:

  • Making digestible marketing content for your target audience (3:37)
  • Redirecting focus to alumni affinity groups (19:20)
  • Challenging assumptions and engaging communities through DEI (27:03)

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

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The Higher Ed Marketer podcast is brought to you by Caylor Solutions, an Education Marketing, and Branding Agency.

    

 

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.919 --> 00:00:07.280 You're listening to The Higher Ed Marketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals in 2 00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:12.480 higher education. This show will tackle all sorts of questions related to student recruitment, 3 00:00:12.720 --> 00:00:16.359 donor relations, marketing trends, new technologies, and so much more. 4 00:00:17.079 --> 00:00:21.480 If you're looking for conversations centered around where the industry is going, this podcast 5 00:00:21.559 --> 00:00:39.200 is for you. Let's get into the show. Welcome to the High Red 6 00:00:39.280 --> 00:00:43.159 Marketer Podcast. My name is Troy Singer. As always, I'm here with 7 00:00:43.280 --> 00:00:48.759 Bart Taylor, a project partner, friend and mentor. Each week we invite 8 00:00:48.799 --> 00:00:54.439 marketers that we admire or sometimes that are recommended to us and have wonderful conversations 9 00:00:54.520 --> 00:00:58.960 that the rest of the marketing community can hopefully benefit, learn from, and 10 00:00:59.000 --> 00:01:03.799 be a little entertained. Today we get all three. We're talking to Cutler 11 00:01:03.880 --> 00:01:08.599 Andrews. He is the Senior Associate VP for Engagement, Communications and Marketing at 12 00:01:08.680 --> 00:01:15.719 Emory University. Cutler is energetic, He's super smart, and you can see 13 00:01:15.719 --> 00:01:21.680 the reason why he leads this advancement and marketing team at Emery. He gives 14 00:01:21.840 --> 00:01:26.000 a lot of information and I can't wait for our listeners the benefit from the 15 00:01:26.079 --> 00:01:29.719 information that he shared. Yeah, it's such a great podcast. I've really 16 00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:32.959 enjoyed getting to know Cutler over these last couple episodes that we've talked to him 17 00:01:32.959 --> 00:01:36.319 and meetings that we've had. Uh. He is very smart, and he 18 00:01:36.359 --> 00:01:38.719 goes into a lot of details about how Emory, you know, a large 19 00:01:38.799 --> 00:01:44.120 R one institution, how they are using storytelling, how they're using content, 20 00:01:44.599 --> 00:01:48.200 the ways that they're thinking about that through their personas, and and even down 21 00:01:48.239 --> 00:01:52.359 to the point of maybe even some of the emotions around that, the empathy 22 00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:56.200 that they try to look at when they when they're putting that content together. 23 00:01:56.239 --> 00:01:59.680 So a lot of really practical, pragmatic things. And and keep in mind 24 00:01:59.680 --> 00:02:04.280 too, a lot of the supplies regardless if you're a big school like Emory 25 00:02:04.400 --> 00:02:07.680 or if you're a small, tiny micro college, which is a new term 26 00:02:07.719 --> 00:02:09.960 I learned this week. Uh, those types of things are going to apply 27 00:02:10.000 --> 00:02:14.280 to you regardless, and so a lot of really good things to talk about 28 00:02:14.280 --> 00:02:19.400 it. Today. I'm happy and proud to bring our conversation to you with 29 00:02:19.479 --> 00:02:24.879 Cutler Andrews Color. We're excited to have the conversation about Emery, excited to 30 00:02:24.919 --> 00:02:30.759 have the conversation with you about what you're doing. But before we get into 31 00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:34.080 it. We always like to start our conversations off with our guests and ask 32 00:02:34.199 --> 00:02:38.280 them if there's something that interesting or something that you've learned this week that you 33 00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:44.439 could share. Yeah, it was. I was traveling this week visiting alumni 34 00:02:44.479 --> 00:02:46.639 and some of our volunteer leaders of the New York this week, and it 35 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:52.159 was a really good reminder as someone who sits back here in the office a 36 00:02:52.159 --> 00:02:55.759 lot, as a marketer and a communicator of the need and the value of 37 00:02:55.800 --> 00:03:00.680 actually being out in the field. I think oftentimes what we do is we 38 00:03:00.759 --> 00:03:02.000 look at data, we look at analytics, we look at you know, 39 00:03:02.039 --> 00:03:06.520 click throughs and open rates, and we analyze it from that standpoint. But 40 00:03:06.560 --> 00:03:10.439 I actually sit down with somebody who's receiving your content and who's experience in it. 41 00:03:10.479 --> 00:03:15.800 From that standpoint, I sometimes forget the value of that. And it 42 00:03:15.879 --> 00:03:21.159 was extremely eye opening this week to be able to do that, to talk 43 00:03:21.280 --> 00:03:25.719 through you know, what does embory feel like and look like to you from 44 00:03:25.719 --> 00:03:30.039 a marketing communication standpoint, and what are the things that we can do better 45 00:03:30.080 --> 00:03:34.280 and to be willing to actually listen to make those changes. And so it 46 00:03:34.280 --> 00:03:37.719 reminded me that I need to do it more and not sit behind the screen 47 00:03:37.879 --> 00:03:42.039 and to really, I mean communication and marketing is two ways, and if 48 00:03:42.080 --> 00:03:46.719 we don't have the mechanism for feedback and return, we're not going to be 49 00:03:46.759 --> 00:03:50.199 able to build value and make the changes that were that we need to make. 50 00:03:52.280 --> 00:03:55.120 Color. I assumed that most people know Emory, but if you would 51 00:03:55.280 --> 00:04:00.159 high level, can you give us a brief description of memory. We are 52 00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:05.840 a research one university, so we have a nine schools within the institution about 53 00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:12.639 a mix of undergraduate and graduate overall. We have a really large academic medical 54 00:04:12.719 --> 00:04:15.279 center as well. We're Division three, so we have a we have a 55 00:04:15.319 --> 00:04:18.879 strong athletics, but their Division three athletics that is not the tail that lags 56 00:04:18.920 --> 00:04:24.160 the dog here um and it is a it's a fascinating it's top twenty five 57 00:04:24.199 --> 00:04:29.199 institution. It's absolutely incredible research, incredible students and faculty to come out of 58 00:04:29.199 --> 00:04:31.879 here as well. Um as folks know, it's in Atlanta, so we're 59 00:04:31.879 --> 00:04:39.000 in this kind of epicenter of of of commerce and travel and research with the 60 00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:43.120 CDC almost sitting right on our campus. So it's a really unique institution from 61 00:04:43.160 --> 00:04:46.600 that standpoint. Thank you. And at the beginning of the intro, I 62 00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:53.120 did say your title, but if you could for context tell everyone what rolls 63 00:04:53.240 --> 00:04:58.920 up through you. Yeah. So in my area, I oversee our the 64 00:04:58.959 --> 00:05:01.399 in realumni Association and all alumni engagement. On that side, we also have 65 00:05:01.879 --> 00:05:08.680 a team that's called Marketing to donor Participation, which is um comprised of our 66 00:05:08.759 --> 00:05:14.959 marketing and communications team overall of our our creative team or content strategists. We 67 00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:18.040 have a multimedia team as well as from a traditional standpoint, a new giving 68 00:05:18.040 --> 00:05:23.439 teams that focus on the university but also focused on the the acamic medical center 69 00:05:23.519 --> 00:05:29.160 side of the house as well. We manage most of the primary events for 70 00:05:29.199 --> 00:05:35.319 the university also everything from homecoming to commencement, everything and kind of in the 71 00:05:35.360 --> 00:05:39.600 mix there overall, and we also have done a relations in a large project 72 00:05:39.639 --> 00:05:43.439 management team. That's pretty cool. Thank you for sharing all that, Cutler, 73 00:05:43.480 --> 00:05:46.199 and I know that when we had our pre interview and we were talking 74 00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:50.240 about some different iteas and things to talk about with all of those teams reporting 75 00:05:50.279 --> 00:05:54.680 up to you, and I really loved your interview question at the very beginning 76 00:05:54.680 --> 00:05:59.959 about what you've learned and the importance of that two way feedback making content digest 77 00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:01.920 sestable. And I'm sure, that's part of what you know, when you 78 00:06:02.079 --> 00:06:06.279 have that feedback, you know that it's digestible because they are responding back to 79 00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:10.600 you and what you said. Um, let's talk about that a little bit, 80 00:06:10.639 --> 00:06:14.240 because, I mean, the idea of of all those different departments coming 81 00:06:14.279 --> 00:06:16.480 up, there's a lot of content that's coming out of out of where you're, 82 00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:19.839 where you're sitting, what you're doing, and um, you know, 83 00:06:19.879 --> 00:06:26.079 making that digestible and I might even say, you know, intriguing or educational 84 00:06:26.199 --> 00:06:31.399 or entertaining is a big responsibility, especially in today's marketing world, where content 85 00:06:31.519 --> 00:06:34.480 is kind of kind of the king right now and it will be for a 86 00:06:34.480 --> 00:06:36.879 while. So let's talk a little bit about that. How how are you 87 00:06:36.920 --> 00:06:42.160 guys really focused on that and what you're thinking around that idea. Yeah, 88 00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:46.439 it's interesting. When I think about content, I think about it probably a 89 00:06:46.480 --> 00:06:48.519 really broad sense. I mean, I think about the events that we do 90 00:06:48.600 --> 00:06:51.920 as content. I think about kind of an a new giving letter from a 91 00:06:51.959 --> 00:06:56.720 social media there's all of it is content for us. And you know, 92 00:06:56.800 --> 00:07:00.279 for us, we we start from the perspective of the audience, and again 93 00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:03.920 we don't always get it right it is, but at the core we're trying 94 00:07:03.920 --> 00:07:08.839 to you know, design thinking terms or trying to empathize with the audience and 95 00:07:09.360 --> 00:07:15.560 understand outside of the context of emory what's important to them. I think oftentimes 96 00:07:15.560 --> 00:07:19.480 there's a trap in in our industry is that their institution, their alma mater, 97 00:07:19.680 --> 00:07:23.720 is the most important thing in their lives. It's not. I mean, 98 00:07:23.959 --> 00:07:27.360 sorry, they spent four to six years however amount of time here, 99 00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:30.959 and there's a lot of other things that we have to be cognizant of when 100 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:34.079 we when we build that content out, we have to understand what channels are 101 00:07:34.160 --> 00:07:38.639 using, We have to understand what their interests are. Um, we have 102 00:07:38.759 --> 00:07:41.879 to make sure we're kind of meeting them where they're at. We have certain 103 00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:46.319 things that we're really focused on talking about. It doesn't mean they want to 104 00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:50.399 hear it, and I have to somehow kind of it's it's a negotiation. 105 00:07:50.439 --> 00:07:55.879 I've got to kind of get them interested and certain things so almost I hate 106 00:07:55.879 --> 00:07:58.199 to say, like right to come almost click bait, like what is going 107 00:07:58.240 --> 00:08:03.279 to get guard their attend and in order to get them to hear the other 108 00:08:03.399 --> 00:08:07.199 things that we want to talk about. And so we constantly look at it 109 00:08:07.240 --> 00:08:11.560 and when we think we press or we challenge ourselves around the channels that we 110 00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:16.920 use, the length of content, the messages that we do. Do we 111 00:08:16.920 --> 00:08:20.319 we we've used an analects on the front end to kind of build out the 112 00:08:20.360 --> 00:08:24.160 strategy, but then we also use pretty significant reporting and analysis on the back 113 00:08:24.279 --> 00:08:28.360 end to understand what was it effective or not. And like I said earlier, 114 00:08:28.399 --> 00:08:31.000 it's part of it's going out and just talking to people. I mean 115 00:08:31.040 --> 00:08:35.519 it's great I can look at all the data, but I can also hear 116 00:08:35.559 --> 00:08:39.120 the idea, So that mix of qualitative and quantitative data that's critically important. 117 00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:46.120 We've leaned more heavily into visual content. You know, universities are really good 118 00:08:46.159 --> 00:08:52.799 at long form written content. We're not always great at taking that and digestion 119 00:08:52.840 --> 00:08:56.759 it down. I mean, I think a corresponsibility what we have is to 120 00:08:56.799 --> 00:09:01.360 make complex thoughts and concepts digest a little to a larger audience. Yeah, 121 00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:03.200 it's kind of like that idea of you know, taking the alumni magazine and 122 00:09:03.279 --> 00:09:07.279 turning it into a YouTube short. I mean there's a big, big difference 123 00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:09.879 in that, but that takes a real skill to be able to do that, 124 00:09:09.919 --> 00:09:13.159 and I think that's, uh, that's something to considers. So as 125 00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:15.519 I think about, um, you know, what you guys are doing, 126 00:09:15.799 --> 00:09:18.879 I'm guessing. And this is where I'd like to kind of tease out the 127 00:09:18.879 --> 00:09:22.559 conversation a little bit. So many times we talked about the importance of personas 128 00:09:22.600 --> 00:09:24.039 and starting with that, and I know that for you guys, I mean 129 00:09:24.519 --> 00:09:28.120 big institution, you know, a lot of different schools, a lot of 130 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:31.519 different paths through that, a lot of things that different. And so tell 131 00:09:31.519 --> 00:09:35.679 me a little bit about how you guys are really looking at that alumni persona, 132 00:09:35.720 --> 00:09:37.919 because it's not just one persona, that's correct, I mean, and 133 00:09:39.279 --> 00:09:43.600 really, so we did a formalized percenter project here, so we you know, 134 00:09:43.639 --> 00:09:46.399 we did surveys, we did focus groups, we took analytics, and 135 00:09:46.399 --> 00:09:50.279 we built out and up. We took about you know, thirty five clusters 136 00:09:50.360 --> 00:09:56.720 down to seven personas, and what we talk about personas and press They're just 137 00:09:56.759 --> 00:09:58.639 a tool. They're not true all be all to this. And so I 138 00:09:58.639 --> 00:10:05.120 have to take a persona data overlay it with school data, um action data. 139 00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:07.279 You know, what are what else are they? How are they interacting 140 00:10:07.320 --> 00:10:11.000 with us? So if I can say the Robert over here in the persona 141 00:10:11.039 --> 00:10:13.720 is all these other things. But then I have to overlay all of these 142 00:10:13.720 --> 00:10:18.919 other data points into that, and really where the personas have been valuable is 143 00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:22.320 slowing us down. I think we talked last time around kind of one of 144 00:10:22.360 --> 00:10:26.799 the quotes from cars being you know you sometimes have to slow down to speed 145 00:10:26.879 --> 00:10:31.879 up, And that's it's a struggle for us because the amount of content that 146 00:10:31.919 --> 00:10:35.840 we have to produce. Um, we have deadlines for everything. It's not 147 00:10:35.879 --> 00:10:39.519 like I can move homecoming or I can move a campaign. I have to 148 00:10:39.559 --> 00:10:43.799 get to that point and taken extra time on the front end to really empathize 149 00:10:43.799 --> 00:10:48.559 with the audience and think through this persona sometimes the easiest phase to skip because 150 00:10:48.559 --> 00:10:52.039 we just want to go right to design and right to writing based on what 151 00:10:52.080 --> 00:10:56.279 we know. So that's where I think been the most valuable tool for us. 152 00:10:56.919 --> 00:10:58.480 It is a moment to pause in the moment to think, a moment 153 00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:01.519 to kind of challenge or an assumptions. I like that, and I like 154 00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:05.159 the fact that you talked about those overlays because I can think about you might 155 00:11:05.200 --> 00:11:11.600 have an alumni of the medical center and a medical school who also is a 156 00:11:11.679 --> 00:11:16.200 legacy parent, and so now all that changes that that relationship just just from 157 00:11:16.200 --> 00:11:22.480 that legacy layer, and so I'm sure that's part of that PERSONA exercises recognizing 158 00:11:22.519 --> 00:11:24.919 that there's there's a lot more to it than just the poster on the wall 159 00:11:24.919 --> 00:11:28.879 that you put together in the exercise exactly when we have cards that we have 160 00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:31.759 that are made up of different personas. But to your point, like, 161 00:11:33.440 --> 00:11:37.600 unless you really think about the complexity of each person they're still humans. We 162 00:11:37.639 --> 00:11:41.200 have to acknowledge that, you know, we're humans in are and we're multidimensional, 163 00:11:41.240 --> 00:11:43.639 and you they don't want to fit us into a box, same other 164 00:11:43.679 --> 00:11:46.559 people were trying to talk to and communicate with. We will be right back 165 00:11:46.840 --> 00:11:54.399 after a word from our sponsor. Today's podcast is brought to you by spoke 166 00:11:54.480 --> 00:11:58.080 Note, the simple way to add video to anything. If you're looking for 167 00:11:58.120 --> 00:12:01.279 an innovative, effective way to get someone's attention, you really ought to check 168 00:12:01.279 --> 00:12:05.559 out Spokenote. They make these easy to use QR code stickers that allow you 169 00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:11.480 to record and share personalized videos with anybody. 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That's great, so 177 00:12:48.639 --> 00:12:52.200 as you as we talked about this idea and I kind of alluded to it 178 00:12:52.240 --> 00:12:56.240 earlier, about this idea of making it digestible and whether it's educational entertaining, 179 00:12:56.080 --> 00:13:01.360 tell me a little bit about I think sometimes the academics hired marketers which are 180 00:13:01.399 --> 00:13:05.879 influenced heavily by academics. We can make things really complicated, and you kind 181 00:13:05.879 --> 00:13:09.759 of indicated that with the with the cars analogy. Just you know, tell 182 00:13:09.759 --> 00:13:11.159 me what you're I mean, you're laughing. People can't see that, but 183 00:13:11.200 --> 00:13:15.200 you're laughing. Tell me tell me what you're thinking. Yeah, I mean 184 00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:20.879 we if one thing we're strong at is over complicating simplicity, and it's um 185 00:13:20.919 --> 00:13:24.639 and it's it's just the process of it. I mean, I think there 186 00:13:24.679 --> 00:13:31.320 are nuances to it and it gets in the way of progress sometimes because the 187 00:13:31.399 --> 00:13:35.039 focus is so much on why it won't work as opposed to how do you 188 00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:39.679 make it work? And so really it was a shifting mindset for us. 189 00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:41.600 It's like, okay, well, how do we make this simple? So 190 00:13:41.639 --> 00:13:43.600 we did an exercise the other day one of our leadership team retreats was and 191 00:13:43.639 --> 00:13:48.000 it was basically on two sides of the room, we needed to map out 192 00:13:48.080 --> 00:13:52.440 all of the big, you know, obstacles that were within our control. 193 00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:56.120 What are the challenge that we have as a leadership team, everything that's within 194 00:13:56.120 --> 00:13:58.840 our control, and then we mapped on the other side of the wall every 195 00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:03.000 thing that our challenges that are not in our control. And so then everybody 196 00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:07.440 went around the room and did their top five. But what it allowed us 197 00:14:07.480 --> 00:14:09.480 do is we would walk through those on either side of the wall and say, 198 00:14:09.519 --> 00:14:11.720 okay, well, if it's in our control, how do we as 199 00:14:11.720 --> 00:14:16.799 a group solve it because we have absolutely control over that, and how do 200 00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:20.399 we simplify the process for those things that are not in our control. It 201 00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:24.519 doesn't mean we can't uh make improvements, we just have to work around it. 202 00:14:24.519 --> 00:14:28.679 I mean there's a as you know and uh, I was talking about 203 00:14:28.679 --> 00:14:31.960 Stoic philosophy. There's a concept of you know, the obstacle is the way, 204 00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:35.879 like what we have in front of us, what are the challenges? 205 00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:41.200 Often the path forward, but so much we focus on why we can't forward 206 00:14:41.240 --> 00:14:46.600 there. So it's a it's a shifting mindst some of us also giving people 207 00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:50.799 the freedom to make mistakes. I think in our space and a lot of 208 00:14:50.840 --> 00:14:58.279 spaces, the fear of being wrong or something an error happening, uh gets 209 00:14:58.279 --> 00:15:01.879 in the way of of innovation and it causes them as a paralysis in that 210 00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:05.200 way. And that's been a huge thing for us to work through. Is 211 00:15:05.399 --> 00:15:07.840 when somebody comes to me that you know, there there's an extra space and 212 00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:11.919 an email. So the salutation was off like it happens. We send it 213 00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:18.279 eleven million emails a year. It's gonna happen, um, and you know, 214 00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:20.159 and the question is, okay, well, how do we mitigate the 215 00:15:20.200 --> 00:15:22.519 next time? And it's not. I mean, I'm glad you brought it 216 00:15:22.600 --> 00:15:26.200 to me, but I don't want that to stifle innovation. Yeah yeah, 217 00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:28.519 And I'm I'm guessing too that along with all of that, and you kind 218 00:15:28.519 --> 00:15:31.679 of indicated in our pre interview was the idea that you've really got this passion 219 00:15:31.720 --> 00:15:37.440 for creating that new knowledge, creating those new discoveries that come out of those 220 00:15:37.480 --> 00:15:41.639 failures, that come out of those you know, those opportunities to know figure 221 00:15:41.639 --> 00:15:43.799 out what we can control and what we have to work around. You know, 222 00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:46.799 tell me about that. I mean, you've got some passion around that. 223 00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:50.559 I think I do, and and really it is I think where I 224 00:15:50.679 --> 00:15:56.399 found most of the discoveries happen is hopefully kind of giving people that space to 225 00:15:56.480 --> 00:16:00.679 bring new ideas to the table. I'm not an expert everything in marketing communications. 226 00:16:00.679 --> 00:16:04.519 I mean, I'm not your I don't understand ux proper ux for a 227 00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:07.399 website the way that somebody who's an expert in that field, if it's social 228 00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:12.960 media strategy. But being able to admit that hats and to be open and 229 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:18.679 to allow people to space to bring new ideas to the table has been critical. 230 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:25.759 And again sometimes the hastiness of everything going on has been a challenge for 231 00:16:25.799 --> 00:16:30.200 that. But I have learned so much from the team by just being able 232 00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:37.559 to step back and sometimes not even reviewing something that goes out, removing myself 233 00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:41.799 as the bottleneck and the review process to speed the process up. And so, 234 00:16:41.960 --> 00:16:44.679 like I said, I don't need to sign off on everything. Um, 235 00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:47.039 if it comes back and there's a problem, I'll take the blame for 236 00:16:47.159 --> 00:16:49.000 it. If it's great, we'll give you the credit for it. Like 237 00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:53.559 that's if it will learn from those things I think. I think as leaders 238 00:16:53.600 --> 00:17:00.000 in this area, giving people the space to do that is critically important for 239 00:17:00.039 --> 00:17:06.079 innovation. That's great. I love that, Cutler. During the conversation about 240 00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:11.480 content, you naturally touched on channels. So we'd like to talk about not 241 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:17.000 only the content, but where these conversations are taking place. We like to 242 00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:21.920 talk about the watering holes. I'm sure that you're as deliberate about the channels 243 00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:26.319 and where these conversations are taking place as you are with the content. Yeah, 244 00:17:26.359 --> 00:17:30.359 I mean, I mean so with external audiences. I mean we're we're 245 00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:33.319 leveraging the same channels probably everybody else's, and we're you know, do we 246 00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:34.880 do it great? I mean we're we're still trying to figure it out. 247 00:17:34.880 --> 00:17:41.279 And we still were heavy print, still email, were heavy email. We're 248 00:17:41.319 --> 00:17:45.200 salesforce marketing cloud now, and so we're leaning heavily into the automation and journeys 249 00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:48.680 and the way we haven't done before. Um. We you know, we 250 00:17:48.759 --> 00:17:55.519 try multiple digital channels, we Kenny, we have not leaned into TikTok yet. 251 00:17:55.640 --> 00:17:59.759 And I the thought around it has been I don't want to just do 252 00:18:00.039 --> 00:18:03.680 it and not have a strategy behind it yet. Um. You know, 253 00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:07.920 it is constantly changing, and I think that's been the hardest thing. I 254 00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:11.000 mean higher it is still a very traditional space in this sector. And you 255 00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:15.160 know, digital strategy is oftentimes seen as just sending out more emails or some 256 00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:19.839 slightly different segmentation and emails or subject liient testing. That's that's ten years old 257 00:18:21.240 --> 00:18:23.880 strategy, um. And so I think we're trying to figure out how to 258 00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:32.640 truly evolve that more um and and overlay those things. And again it's we 259 00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:37.039 have underinvested in many ways into the data side of things. You know, 260 00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:40.559 what is our proper data cleansing process. Do we have the most up todate 261 00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:44.119 email addresses? Do we have the most up to date employment information? Can 262 00:18:44.119 --> 00:18:47.319 we already reaching out to them in the right channels. If I've got five, 263 00:18:47.559 --> 00:18:49.839 you know, four or five email addresses in the system and I'm always 264 00:18:49.880 --> 00:18:56.039 sending it to a Bell South dot net email, It's probably wrong and I've 265 00:18:56.079 --> 00:18:59.440 got a Gmail in there as well. So have we cycled through and tested 266 00:18:59.480 --> 00:19:03.680 those things out in different ways? Um? I think those are those are 267 00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:07.480 growth areas for all of us. UM. And you know, every day 268 00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:11.000 I turn around, there's something new, there's a new strategy out there. 269 00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:15.079 UM. I mean, you hit our site, we're probably not going to 270 00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:18.319 retarget you, um, which is a loss in a lot of ways. 271 00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:26.480 We're trying to get there. But the Memories web pages are on multiple content 272 00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:30.519 management system so we're ever here on droople A while the central pages on Cascade. 273 00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:33.559 It's hard to kind of cross polity, and every school is on a 274 00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:37.680 different one too. Yeah. I would only imagine that that gets to be 275 00:19:37.720 --> 00:19:41.880 pretty challenging. UM. And and and be able to do that. So 276 00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:44.920 when when you look at your I mean partly we go back to what we 277 00:19:44.920 --> 00:19:48.200 talked about with the personas. Personas can also start to identify where those watering 278 00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:52.720 holes are. And I know that you know there's gonna be some natural watering 279 00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:56.240 holes with homecoming and and events that you have in cities and things like that. 280 00:19:56.720 --> 00:20:00.000 But I think also, um, I think many time highered marketers we 281 00:20:00.279 --> 00:20:06.720 missed the opportunity to really look at those other places that are unique to your 282 00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:11.480 school or your audience that can become those unique you know, watering holes that 283 00:20:11.079 --> 00:20:15.000 might not be for everyone. And you you kind of referred to earlier that 284 00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:18.400 the fact that you've got the CDC in your backyard and there's there's other things 285 00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:22.519 that are unique to Atlanta. I'm sure that you've got some some watering holes 286 00:20:22.519 --> 00:20:26.200 that you've discovered for Emery that you know, if you were to leave Emory 287 00:20:26.240 --> 00:20:30.000 and go to another university might not apply. I mean, what are some 288 00:20:30.039 --> 00:20:32.880 of those things that that are like that that that you could kind of, 289 00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:36.400 you know, have share with everybody that maybe they can start to look at 290 00:20:36.759 --> 00:20:40.039 their environment differently to kind of see where they might be able to go. 291 00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:44.440 Yeah, I mean we've we've had this conversation quite a bit is around what 292 00:20:44.440 --> 00:20:47.599 what pulls people together here. I mean, we don't write, we don't 293 00:20:47.640 --> 00:20:52.880 have athletics in the same way we do have an incredible athletics program, but 294 00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:56.559 it's nothing that that pulls folks in. We do have homecoms, we had 295 00:20:56.559 --> 00:21:00.680 a reposition homecoming reunions, and it is for us, it is because we 296 00:21:00.680 --> 00:21:04.279 don't have a central kind of football game we're all around round. So we 297 00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:08.119 did a food and music festival because that's kind of this essence of Atlanta a 298 00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:11.640 little bit is people will talk about that the music scene and the food scene 299 00:21:11.640 --> 00:21:15.720 here, so we kind of we really acknowledge the depth of who we are 300 00:21:15.839 --> 00:21:21.960 and what that experience was like here When students go out, there's not I 301 00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:23.759 mean, I went to un t Chapel Hill. There's Franklin Street. You 302 00:21:23.799 --> 00:21:29.880 can just walk over there, and that was where everything happened. Here is 303 00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:32.319 not the same way you're getting in a car. You're going to Buckhead, 304 00:21:32.359 --> 00:21:36.440 you're going to Midtown, you're going to the Highlands. And so oftentimes when 305 00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:41.039 folks come back, we recreate those experiences. We we think about that area. 306 00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:45.440 One thing we've also found that is that people want and what brings them 307 00:21:45.480 --> 00:21:51.480 together is access to unique experiences. You know, in New York, we 308 00:21:51.519 --> 00:21:56.160 have a producer, a Broadway producer, so he organized a program there that 309 00:21:56.279 --> 00:22:02.480 gave Emery A Lum's access to kind of stay after and talk to the director 310 00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:07.640 of the play. And it's one of those things that people like that there 311 00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:14.400 there's a unique element to this creativity side, and they like access to researchers 312 00:22:14.519 --> 00:22:18.200 or financial experts, and so how do you cultivate those whether it is in 313 00:22:18.279 --> 00:22:23.240 person or virtually. Are you highlight those in communication? That for us seems 314 00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:26.200 to be those are our stars? Those are kind of the things the hooks 315 00:22:26.200 --> 00:22:30.880 for folks that get them excited when they're coming together. Yeah, that's that's 316 00:22:30.920 --> 00:22:33.759 cool. And I'm guessing that when they come together, whether it's in person 317 00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:40.480 or virtually or around an event, even a virtual event like Giving Day, 318 00:22:40.599 --> 00:22:44.079 that makes a big difference and allows them to kind of get engaged and and 319 00:22:44.359 --> 00:22:48.799 to kind of start to engage that two way conversation. Tell me a little 320 00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:51.160 bit about that. I mean, we talked a little bit earlier about Giving 321 00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:53.759 Day and you kind of have taken a different approach to that. Tell me 322 00:22:53.759 --> 00:22:56.839 a little bit about that. That that thought and the change and the result 323 00:22:56.880 --> 00:23:02.119 that you've seen. Yeah, we so we gone from one kind of fairly 324 00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:04.240 standard Giving Day and we've we've modified it a little bit more and we actually 325 00:23:04.240 --> 00:23:07.640 added it at two. So we did a Giving week here in the fall 326 00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:17.119 basically around which is our campaign um and one more focused on kind of departments 327 00:23:17.160 --> 00:23:21.559 and programs. Because what you find here is that class year is not really 328 00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:25.960 the identifier that people come back to. They were in the department of biology 329 00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:32.640 or English or business that really they connect back or it's Greek life or athletics 330 00:23:32.480 --> 00:23:36.680 affinity groups that they connect with, and you know, we try, like 331 00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:41.640 we want the class of to be really connected, but they're not necessarily and 332 00:23:41.079 --> 00:23:44.720 I think for us to acknowledge that, So we've leveraged a little bit of 333 00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:48.799 commnity's natural affinity groups as we thought about how we build out those programs. 334 00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:55.400 Also, and you know, we leverage gamification within giving days and many of 335 00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:59.960 them do. It's like how do you have challenges and matches so people feel 336 00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:03.079 that there's other people who are giving, who are excited around this. I 337 00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:10.680 mean that it's the kind of the concept of UH like audience identification, for 338 00:24:10.839 --> 00:24:15.960 like, I want to see myself in UH the marketing materials. I want 339 00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:19.440 to see myself and those who are already giving or social proofing that if other 340 00:24:19.480 --> 00:24:22.880 people are doing it, then I'm willing to do this as right. So 341 00:24:22.920 --> 00:24:27.240 we lead heavily into those things. UM. We've also everything we do, 342 00:24:29.079 --> 00:24:33.599 we leverage merge in a lot, so like I every chance I have to 343 00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:41.160 give somebody a t shirt, hat, tumble or something Emery. I go 344 00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:42.160 for it, and people are, well, why are we giving away some 345 00:24:42.160 --> 00:24:45.759 of my stuff? It's marketing. It is somebody's women. I'm wearing an 346 00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:49.599 Emery shirt right now. I want to see that. I want to I 347 00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:52.680 want to walk down the street in New York, Atlanta, Des Moines, 348 00:24:52.759 --> 00:25:00.680 Iowa and see somebody wearing Emery gear because it means they mean they consciously put 349 00:25:00.759 --> 00:25:04.119 something not and Troy it's got a highest state on like that conscious decision to 350 00:25:04.319 --> 00:25:08.839 wear, to have a cover. It makes you think about it in a 351 00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:11.599 different way. And I think it's kind of an underutilized I mean place like 352 00:25:11.640 --> 00:25:15.559 Emory. It's I walk around I was just a walk around campus and I 353 00:25:15.599 --> 00:25:21.160 see UH gear from other schools more than Amory. It's one of those things. 354 00:25:22.200 --> 00:25:23.039 So at home coming this year, we had, you know, almost 355 00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:27.160 seven thousand people signed up for homecoming. We gave out five thousand shirts, 356 00:25:27.960 --> 00:25:32.039 and I flew out the next day and I see people wearing him an airport. 357 00:25:32.119 --> 00:25:36.880 That's exactly. I'm just curious, what's the most sought after merch that 358 00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:41.720 you've had one of our It's not really a mascot, but there's Duly here. 359 00:25:42.200 --> 00:25:49.079 So Duley's the skeleton um figure that is really known to undergraduates, and 360 00:25:49.079 --> 00:25:52.960 it's it's so unique to me. And I don't call it a mask. 361 00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:56.519 I don't really know even what to call it, but it's one of the 362 00:25:56.519 --> 00:26:00.440 most identifiable things about Emory. Swooper is our mascot, but really is focused 363 00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:03.799 a lot on an athletics time or some of it that is there. But 364 00:26:03.880 --> 00:26:11.920 when you talk to undergrounds, if they see Duly and Duly merchandise because it's 365 00:26:11.960 --> 00:26:15.119 really hard to get there's not much in the store, they love it. 366 00:26:15.720 --> 00:26:18.400 Besides that, it's always hats, like we'll go, we can give hats 367 00:26:18.440 --> 00:26:22.000 away left or right because you want to work about sizes. Everybody loves them. 368 00:26:22.079 --> 00:26:26.519 That's cool, thank you. That's great, I know for me and 369 00:26:26.559 --> 00:26:30.000 a lot of people. And I won't make you say this, Cutler, 370 00:26:30.119 --> 00:26:33.799 But when you think of Emery and its brand, you think of it being 371 00:26:33.880 --> 00:26:38.200 as one of the elite colleges in the South. And I'm sure that there's 372 00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:45.559 a standard that you have to live up to through messaging and from the alumni 373 00:26:45.640 --> 00:26:52.720 Advancement chair, if you can share some of the deliberate nous or you know, 374 00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:57.279 the differences that you can make and building that brand from the messaging that 375 00:26:57.359 --> 00:27:02.240 you do. Yeah, well, it only one correction of that. It's 376 00:27:02.279 --> 00:27:07.799 it's one of the most elite universities period, regardless of region. Um I 377 00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:14.079 stand corrected. I stand corrected as a Northerner, and when I think of 378 00:27:14.119 --> 00:27:18.640 the South. Yes, it's it's a great question. I mean for us, 379 00:27:18.680 --> 00:27:22.839 it's how we tell those stories. I mean, I think Emory is 380 00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:29.839 sometimes humbled to a fault. I always said, Emory we're doers. We 381 00:27:29.839 --> 00:27:32.920 we the a problem, we go solve it, and we move on to 382 00:27:33.039 --> 00:27:37.079 the next problem. We don't talk about it. We've just we were onto 383 00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:41.039 the next thing. You know. When COVID happened, like our team leaned 384 00:27:41.119 --> 00:27:48.839 in and tried to find the best solutions possible and create vaccines. And you 385 00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:55.279 know, I mean Emory Hospital had they see the lowest mortality rate of anybody 386 00:27:55.319 --> 00:27:59.920 who went on UM and I see you are on a respirator who is COVID 387 00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:03.039 positive. And so those are the things that we just do. I mean 388 00:28:03.079 --> 00:28:07.480 with a bull of patient. We're the first university hospital to accept the bull 389 00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:11.480 of patients when they came in. And so my job is to help tell 390 00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:15.079 those stories. And you know we're not folks are not going to be see 391 00:28:15.079 --> 00:28:19.440 proud of um certain elements because we don't. They're not going to rally around 392 00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:27.960 a final four play or national championship, will rally around transformative research. And 393 00:28:29.000 --> 00:28:33.319 I think true impact on on the world. I mean, I think that 394 00:28:33.599 --> 00:28:38.440 is that global impact to something I've got. My my responsibility, the weight 395 00:28:38.480 --> 00:28:44.880 that we carry as a marketing communications team and with my partners in central Communications 396 00:28:44.920 --> 00:28:49.359 and marketing as well, is to make sure we have identified what those stories 397 00:28:49.400 --> 00:28:55.319 are, that we tell them in a way that reaches the widest audience possible 398 00:28:56.240 --> 00:29:00.359 UM and continues to engage people and look at us in a different a way. 399 00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:03.519 I mean it's great. I mean it's not the researchers. I wanted 400 00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:07.359 them to keep doing that. I want the students to keep pushing the envelope 401 00:29:07.480 --> 00:29:14.680 and our alumni to keep doing great things. My responsibility, our responsibility is 402 00:29:14.720 --> 00:29:18.920 too through brand elevation. Is that impact. I mean we talked last time 403 00:29:18.960 --> 00:29:23.079 a little bit um Michael Elliots, our former dean uh in Ree College, 404 00:29:23.079 --> 00:29:26.440 he's now president at Amherst, and he said this one time, it is 405 00:29:26.720 --> 00:29:32.680 always resonating. I was like two weeks on the jobs that our responsibility is 406 00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:36.920 to create and share knowledge. It is that is at the core of what 407 00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:41.920 we do UM and we have that responsibility. We're not sharing the knowledge to 408 00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:45.319 the broadest audience possible. We are delinquent in our mission and I think that 409 00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:52.640 is ultimately what we we should continue to do. It's great. I just 410 00:29:52.720 --> 00:30:00.279 came back from a conference of marketers and the number one topic that was discussed 411 00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:07.000 was d e I and wanted to know if you could share what types of 412 00:30:07.079 --> 00:30:11.960 conversations, uh, what you're doing at Emory in regard to d e I. 413 00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:18.759 It is a focus of ours here and it is a It is not 414 00:30:18.920 --> 00:30:22.799 something that is an indestination. It is a constant journey and some you can't 415 00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:29.279 you have to work at. I think you can't be a proficient marketer or 416 00:30:29.359 --> 00:30:34.240 communicator unless you focus on d e I because it is about seeing people for 417 00:30:34.400 --> 00:30:38.359 who they are, understanding the journeys they have been on, the obstacles that 418 00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:42.480 are in their way, how you communicate, how you how you're relevant, 419 00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:49.039 and so it means listening more than talking, and I think too long and 420 00:30:49.440 --> 00:30:52.519 that's been the challenge of the work that we do is that we talk a 421 00:30:52.519 --> 00:30:56.279 lot, and our job is to talk, is to send out messages, 422 00:30:56.960 --> 00:31:02.720 and oftentimes we don't hear or pause, and personas are one way to do 423 00:31:02.799 --> 00:31:07.079 this, to think through this, to think through experiences. I was talking 424 00:31:07.119 --> 00:31:12.160 to some colleagues at an institution as an international institution, and they have students 425 00:31:12.160 --> 00:31:15.480 and faculty from a hundred different countries, and they were talking about the unique 426 00:31:15.559 --> 00:31:22.960 challenges of how they think about UH marketing communications. And I said and asked 427 00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:25.920 me what I would do. I said, well, you have to go 428 00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:30.000 engage with those communities. You have to be open to that feedback, You 429 00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:33.559 have to challenge your own assumptions. You constantly have to work. There's trainings, 430 00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:37.359 but it is being empathetic at your core. Not to get too far 431 00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:41.039 back, but I started my workout at a at a great crisis center. 432 00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:45.039 I worked on the crisis line of the community education work is kind of how 433 00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:49.200 I got into the nonprofit sector, and large part of that training was to 434 00:31:49.359 --> 00:31:52.079 listen. Is that we've talked about constant act of listening to the person in 435 00:31:52.119 --> 00:31:56.400 front of you, How do you understand that person in front of you? 436 00:31:56.160 --> 00:32:00.599 And then you have to scale too, And so I think those are the 437 00:32:00.599 --> 00:32:06.319 the core elements that come to d I. You you're going to be uncomfortable. 438 00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:10.039 That's okay, I mean it is there are uncomfortable conversations, but and 439 00:32:10.119 --> 00:32:15.799 you should have those if you want to be able to build a diverse team. 440 00:32:15.079 --> 00:32:20.200 It is a it is a conscious effort and is something you have to 441 00:32:20.240 --> 00:32:22.640 work at. You can't be passive and wait for it to come. So 442 00:32:22.680 --> 00:32:28.319 I think it's we're never gonna fully be there, but it is something we 443 00:32:28.359 --> 00:32:31.839 will always strive for. Yeah, that's such a great reminder, Cutler. 444 00:32:31.880 --> 00:32:35.920 I think that, um, you know, it gets to the point of 445 00:32:35.960 --> 00:32:39.079 empathy. And I've often told people many many times. I mean, I 446 00:32:39.279 --> 00:32:45.759 honestly think that d e I has been taken hostage by politics sometimes and honestly, 447 00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:47.920 when you get back to it, and I made this comment in a 448 00:32:49.599 --> 00:32:52.279 webinar did recently, is that it's really about doing the right thing. It's 449 00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:57.680 it's it's really more about golden rule type of thinking than it is anything specific 450 00:32:57.720 --> 00:33:00.160 to d E I. And I I'm really glad to hear you say that 451 00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:04.720 and and talk about it from an empathy standpoint, because I think that's where 452 00:33:04.720 --> 00:33:07.119 it needs to start. And um, and I really appreciate you sharing that. 453 00:33:07.160 --> 00:33:15.720 Thanks. We closed each show by asking our guests that gives us so 454 00:33:15.799 --> 00:33:20.559 much during the show, if there was one last piece of advice that you 455 00:33:20.599 --> 00:33:24.640 could give that someone could implement immediately, what would that piece of advice be? 456 00:33:27.240 --> 00:33:30.319 Ye? Again, I think I'll go back to what I said earlier. 457 00:33:30.519 --> 00:33:36.119 It is giving yourself the space and the time and to really slow down 458 00:33:36.559 --> 00:33:42.039 and to really pause for a second and try to understand who you're talking to 459 00:33:42.400 --> 00:33:45.319 and and really and when I say understand, it is not just you know 460 00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:49.480 all the standard things, it's who they are, what are they experience on 461 00:33:49.519 --> 00:33:52.039 a daily basis? UM trying to how do I figure out how to meet 462 00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:58.680 them where they're at UH and challenge your assumptions around that and giving yourself the 463 00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:04.200 space to do that is critically important. We talk here a lot kind of 464 00:34:04.240 --> 00:34:08.519 around UM. We have James Rapers, or head of kind of health and 465 00:34:08.559 --> 00:34:13.920 wellness services on campus UM, and he talks about the The goal is not 466 00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:17.039 happiness. The goal is to acknowledge your human and we've taken a set for 467 00:34:17.159 --> 00:34:21.159 us. The goal is to acknowledge the other person's human as well, and 468 00:34:21.239 --> 00:34:24.480 so understanding yourself and understand the other person. UM, it'll it'll make you 469 00:34:24.559 --> 00:34:29.239 stronger in the field, and it will make you understand your audience better. 470 00:34:29.280 --> 00:34:32.039 It'll make you a better market communicator, leader, colleague, and everything. 471 00:34:34.679 --> 00:34:37.400 Thank you Cudler, and thank you for your time that you've given us, 472 00:34:37.480 --> 00:34:42.760 the wisdom, the energy that you gave us that wisdom through. I'm sure 473 00:34:42.760 --> 00:34:45.639 there are people that we're not familiar with you but would love to reach out 474 00:34:45.719 --> 00:34:50.039 to you. For them, what would be the best way for them to 475 00:34:50.159 --> 00:34:53.159 reach out and connect with you. I love connecting with people in the field, 476 00:34:53.239 --> 00:34:58.440 so whether it's LinkedIn or email, I'm fairly easy to get in touch 477 00:34:58.519 --> 00:35:02.280 with. UM may not always respond right away, so don't hesitate to pay 478 00:35:02.360 --> 00:35:07.679 me again just because of schedules, but that's actually the best part about this. 479 00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:12.000 So feel free to shoot me a message via linked in or email. 480 00:35:12.639 --> 00:35:15.639 I'll be there. My email is easy. It's just cutlor dot Andrews at 481 00:35:15.639 --> 00:35:20.639 Emory dot EEDU. There's not many of us out there. Thank you, 482 00:35:21.400 --> 00:35:23.519 Bart. Do you have any closing comments you would like to make before we 483 00:35:23.559 --> 00:35:28.320 close our show? Yeah, this has been an incredible episode. I mean 484 00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:32.639 we've talked about everything from content to a lot of emotional intelligence, uh, 485 00:35:32.760 --> 00:35:37.679 you know, through through empathy and through patients, you know, slowing down 486 00:35:37.719 --> 00:35:40.039 to speed up those types of things. And then one thing I really appreciated 487 00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:44.239 that that Cutler said, and I'm going to focus on this for just a 488 00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:46.559 moment because I you know, I work with a lot of faith based schools. 489 00:35:46.760 --> 00:35:51.480 A lot of schools are similar to what Cutler is talking about, where 490 00:35:51.480 --> 00:35:57.039 we're humbled to a fault sometimes and I think that while that is very admirable 491 00:35:57.119 --> 00:36:00.119 trait, sometimes when we need to tell the stories and move the move the 492 00:36:00.159 --> 00:36:05.440 bricks for our university, we need to actually talk about it in a greater 493 00:36:05.559 --> 00:36:07.440 context. And so you know, I was talking to a faith based school 494 00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:10.519 the other day and we talked about it in the context of Kingdom work type 495 00:36:10.519 --> 00:36:14.760 of thing, and that's more of a religious area and angle to it. 496 00:36:15.079 --> 00:36:17.239 But I think from from Cutler standpoint, whether you're at a state school or 497 00:36:17.280 --> 00:36:21.719 other place, talk about the impact that it has for your university. For 498 00:36:21.800 --> 00:36:28.400 those alumni that are proud of their h that and actually gain some worth from 499 00:36:28.519 --> 00:36:31.360 their degree, um there there's some some worth in that for them, and 500 00:36:31.400 --> 00:36:37.119 so being being able to kind of move beyond maybe that personal humility to more 501 00:36:37.159 --> 00:36:40.280 of that greater good for the for the for the university or the college is 502 00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:43.480 a little bit something that we need to look at, especially when we tell 503 00:36:43.480 --> 00:36:47.440 the stories, when we talk about how those stories might impact them. You 504 00:36:47.440 --> 00:36:51.960 know, I love the story about Dooley and the fact that there's a there's 505 00:36:51.519 --> 00:36:55.039 a sub story within Emory. Finding those and being able to tell those I 506 00:36:55.039 --> 00:36:58.960 think are so important and I I really liked you know, there were three 507 00:36:59.000 --> 00:37:02.519 points that that Kelor made there at the end was identifying the stories, telling 508 00:37:02.559 --> 00:37:07.079 them through the appropriate channels with empathy, and then also keeping them evergreen so 509 00:37:07.119 --> 00:37:10.360 that they can kind of continue on and making that impact. And I guess 510 00:37:10.360 --> 00:37:15.199 that's the overall idea, is that let's be able to tell our stories to 511 00:37:15.239 --> 00:37:20.000 make a greater impact than just what we might feel ourselves. So thanks again, 512 00:37:20.079 --> 00:37:24.079 Keyler, this has been such a good conversation. Bart Cutler, thank 513 00:37:24.159 --> 00:37:30.920 you both. The Hired Marketer podcast is sponsored by Kaylor Solutions and Education marketing 514 00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:37.480 and branding agency. Also by Ring Digital, a marketing firm that specializes in 515 00:37:37.519 --> 00:37:43.760 boosting lifting yield for higher ed with unique, targeted and accurate digital marketing campaigns, 516 00:37:43.800 --> 00:37:49.679 and by Thing Patented a marketing execution company combining direct mail and unique digital 517 00:37:49.760 --> 00:37:53.719 stacks for higher ED outreach success. On behalf of Bart kaylor my co host, 518 00:37:54.000 --> 00:38:00.599 I'm Troy Singer. Thank you for listening. You've been listening to the 519 00:38:00.679 --> 00:38:06.039 Higher ED Marketer. To ensure that you never miss an episode, Subscribe to 520 00:38:06.079 --> 00:38:09.599 the show in your favorite podcast player. If you're listening with Apple Podcasts, 521 00:38:09.880 --> 00:38:14.440 we'd love for you to leave a quick rating of the show. Simply tap 522 00:38:14.440 --> 00:38:17.199 the number of stars you think the podcast deserves. Until next time.