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April 26, 2022

Diversify Classrooms Through Authentic Messaging

Diversify Classrooms Through Authentic Messaging

Finding your perfect prospective student will increase your enrollment numbers. 

How do you find your perfect student? 

In this episode, Tim Bohling, Chief Marketing and Graduate Enrollment Officer at University of Notre Dame - Mendoza College of Business, joins the show to talk about how an authentic brand narrative paired with data-driven marketing will increase your chances of connecting with your perfect fit prospective students.  

We discuss:

  • Building a brand narrative to find your prospective students
  • Being authentic and distinctive in your messaging
  • The importance of the enrollment journey 

To hear more interviews like this one, subscribe to Higher Ed Marketer on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your preferred podcast platform.  

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The Higher Ed Marketer podcast is sponsored by Caylor Solutions, an Education Marketing and Branding Agency, and by Think Patented, a Marketing Execution, Printing and Mailing provider of Higher Ed solutions.

    

 

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.919 --> 00:00:07.240 You are listening to the Higher Ed Marketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals 2 00:00:07.280 --> 00:00:12.000 in higher education. This show will tackle all sorts of questions related to student 3 00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:16.800 recruitment, donor relations, marketing trends, new technologies and so much more. 4 00:00:17.079 --> 00:00:21.000 If you are looking for conversations centered around where the industry is going, this 5 00:00:21.039 --> 00:00:29.120 podcast is for you. Let's get into the show. Welcome to the Higher 6 00:00:29.199 --> 00:00:32.880 Ed Marker podcast. I'm troy singer here with my cohost, Bart Taylor, 7 00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:37.520 and every week we interview high reed marketers that we admire for the benefit and 8 00:00:37.560 --> 00:00:42.119 hopefully the betterment of the entire Higher Ed community. Today we have a very 9 00:00:42.320 --> 00:00:47.359 dynamic guest. It's Dr Tim Bowling, who is the chief marketing and graduate 10 00:00:47.479 --> 00:00:53.600 enrollment officer and also a teaching professor at the Mendoza School of Business and marketing 11 00:00:53.600 --> 00:00:59.600 at Notre Dame. He brings it with his presentation today. He really does. 12 00:00:59.640 --> 00:01:03.040 He's got such a dynamic presentation. You can tell that he really knows 13 00:01:03.040 --> 00:01:07.599 what he's talking about. He's developed what he calls the smart marketing playbook out 14 00:01:07.640 --> 00:01:11.760 of his years and years of experience and industry. He's one of those individuals, 15 00:01:11.840 --> 00:01:15.560 like many of the guests that we've had and and people that I know 16 00:01:15.599 --> 00:01:19.439 in highed marketing who have made the transition out of, you know, traditional 17 00:01:19.480 --> 00:01:25.400 business into the ranks of high reed marketers and really passionate about what he's doing 18 00:01:25.439 --> 00:01:29.079 and you can tell that and everything and he says there's a lot packed into 19 00:01:29.120 --> 00:01:32.000 this episode and so I really encourage you to listen to that. And I 20 00:01:32.079 --> 00:01:34.920 also just make a note that Tim is the second guest that we've had on 21 00:01:36.000 --> 00:01:41.159 who has won the American Marketing Association Higher Ed Marketer of the year. He 22 00:01:41.200 --> 00:01:44.359 won it for night if for a two thousand and twenty, one Ethan Braden 23 00:01:44.400 --> 00:01:47.079 from Perdue, one a in two thousand and twenty. And so you know 24 00:01:47.120 --> 00:01:51.239 the caliber of these guests and the wisdom that they can bring. pull out 25 00:01:51.239 --> 00:01:53.920 your notebook because there's a lot of really good things to walk away with. 26 00:01:53.239 --> 00:01:57.680 You can see the common thread in both of them through that passion, through 27 00:01:57.719 --> 00:02:01.920 that expertise and how they deliver it so easily. Yeah, very articulate, 28 00:02:02.040 --> 00:02:08.560 yes, very much so. Here's our interview with Dr Tim Bowling. Please 29 00:02:08.599 --> 00:02:15.560 help me welcome Tim Bowling, chief marketing and graduate enrollment officer and teaching professor 30 00:02:15.599 --> 00:02:19.800 of marketing at the University of Notre Dame to the high reed marketer podcast. 31 00:02:20.120 --> 00:02:24.400 And before we get into the topic, which is how Notre Dame uses this 32 00:02:24.479 --> 00:02:30.960 wonderful smarter marketing and enrollment playbook for massive success, if you would tell us 33 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:35.280 a little bit about the school that you are over, Tim, and I 34 00:02:35.360 --> 00:02:38.080 mean we all know about Notre Dame, but I believe that you are with 35 00:02:38.120 --> 00:02:42.960 the business school that's right to troy, and thank you for that welcome introduction. 36 00:02:43.240 --> 00:02:46.639 Delighted to be here with both you and Bart Tim Bowling, chief marketing 37 00:02:46.639 --> 00:02:52.360 graduate, Rollman Officer at the Mendoza College of business, of course, which 38 00:02:52.400 --> 00:02:57.000 is part of the University of Notre Dame. We're business school, a steeped 39 00:02:57.000 --> 00:03:00.400 in tradition a hundred years. We just celebrated our centennial and I've been at 40 00:03:00.520 --> 00:03:05.759 Notre Dame since January two thousand and nineteen and it's been just a great, 41 00:03:05.719 --> 00:03:09.080 great journey and we're just getting started. That's wonderful. And we are going 42 00:03:09.120 --> 00:03:15.400 to talk about this wonderful tool that you utilize. It's the smart marketing and 43 00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:21.120 enrollment playbook and in our earlier conversation you mentioned that this actually came out of 44 00:03:21.120 --> 00:03:25.199 the private sector and through your journey of going into Higher Ed, you are 45 00:03:25.280 --> 00:03:30.000 able to bring it in, adapt it and it's still deliver success. Can 46 00:03:30.039 --> 00:03:34.840 you tell us a little bit about that? Sure happy to so. After 47 00:03:34.840 --> 00:03:39.879 spending twenty five years in industry, always having one foot planet in academia, 48 00:03:39.960 --> 00:03:46.439 I decided to put two feet firmly in academia and return to my Alma Mater 49 00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:51.280 I received my doctorate, and that was Georgia State University. At the twenty 50 00:03:51.360 --> 00:03:57.280 plus years and industry, I had the opportunity to test, refine, Bild 51 00:03:57.599 --> 00:04:03.240 deploy best practice is from a customer engagement perspective, and this particular playbook we 52 00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:10.360 call the smarter marketing and recruitment playbook in higher education, akin to a smarter 53 00:04:10.479 --> 00:04:15.560 marketing and sales playbook in the commercial sector. And you know really those key 54 00:04:15.639 --> 00:04:21.279 tenants that work very effectively in industry or commercial space also work in higher education, 55 00:04:21.600 --> 00:04:28.079 that the playbook really is grounded on a couple of key tenants. Certainly 56 00:04:28.319 --> 00:04:33.920 you know knowing thy customer very deeply here from a data driven perspective, with 57 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:39.759 a key depth of understanding of who the target audience is, and higher education 58 00:04:39.759 --> 00:04:45.079 that would be perspective. Students, we then ensure that we deliver a meaningfully 59 00:04:45.199 --> 00:04:49.319 unique and distinct value proposition, a brand narrative, if you will, that 60 00:04:49.399 --> 00:04:54.839 makes a case for why, and you know, delighted here at Notre Dame 61 00:04:54.959 --> 00:05:00.720 we have embarked on ellucinating a new brand narrative, driving a smarter marketing and 62 00:05:00.759 --> 00:05:04.639 recruitment playbook that has been very well received, very well received. Frankly, 63 00:05:04.720 --> 00:05:10.120 when I moved into academia I wasn't sure if it was going to work because 64 00:05:10.160 --> 00:05:14.120 it works so effectively in industry and you know, everyone talks about the differences 65 00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:18.800 between Higher Ed and Industry, but this framework is industry agnostic and is, 66 00:05:18.839 --> 00:05:25.240 you know, really elevating the brand reputation, the the brand equity of Notre 67 00:05:25.319 --> 00:05:30.839 Dame. Similarly for Georgia's state before I decided to come here to Notre Dame, 68 00:05:30.879 --> 00:05:36.720 and I would assert is effective path forward for all institutions, universities, 69 00:05:36.839 --> 00:05:42.319 colleges, state schools, private, you know, and so forth. I 70 00:05:42.360 --> 00:05:46.120 have not yet seen a situation where it doesn't work, which is pretty exciting. 71 00:05:46.519 --> 00:05:49.600 That's great and I really like, you know, some of the premise 72 00:05:49.639 --> 00:05:51.959 that you started out and we're going to kind of peel this back a little 73 00:05:53.000 --> 00:05:54.759 bit and talk a little bit more about this, but I think that the 74 00:05:54.800 --> 00:05:57.800 idea of data driven. You know, you and I both, and all 75 00:05:57.800 --> 00:06:00.000 three of us have been in the industries for four years as I think that 76 00:06:00.040 --> 00:06:04.800 we are living in a little bit of a unique time frame where twenty, 77 00:06:04.839 --> 00:06:08.600 five, thirty years ago we didn't have access to the kind of data that 78 00:06:08.600 --> 00:06:11.759 we have today, and I'm sure that you guys are really utilizing that and 79 00:06:11.759 --> 00:06:14.199 that's a big part of the playbook. Tell us a little bit about some 80 00:06:14.199 --> 00:06:16.839 of the data that you're pulling and utilizing for your messaging and how you're doing 81 00:06:16.839 --> 00:06:21.040 things. Great question barked from a day of perspective. Data is the heartbeat 82 00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:27.560 of modern marketing. It's the the heartbeat of our smarter marketing recruitment playbook. 83 00:06:27.600 --> 00:06:31.079 What data do we look at in leverage? Frankly, on a daily basis. 84 00:06:31.279 --> 00:06:35.800 Let me share with you a couple of real examples. So to determine 85 00:06:35.839 --> 00:06:41.639 what our brand narrative is, we went through a journey, a journey to 86 00:06:41.680 --> 00:06:47.360 really understand what makes no tre dame Mendoza College of business meaningfully distinct, and 87 00:06:47.399 --> 00:06:54.439 we leverage a number of traditional data sources, right surveys, focus groups, 88 00:06:54.480 --> 00:06:58.199 really you know, had a chance, frankly, to read the founding documents 89 00:06:58.319 --> 00:07:03.680 of our our college, really looking to understand what makes us us and makes 90 00:07:03.759 --> 00:07:09.199 us meaningfully different to, you know, everyone else. Right, a lot 91 00:07:09.199 --> 00:07:13.240 of sea of sameness going on across higher education if you look at the messages 92 00:07:13.319 --> 00:07:16.759 that we communicates. Therefore, we want to cut through the clutter make sure 93 00:07:16.800 --> 00:07:24.600 we connect in a very foundational, emotional and transformational level with those right fit 94 00:07:24.680 --> 00:07:28.959 students. So, you know, we embarked upon this journey and landed on 95 00:07:29.120 --> 00:07:32.279 grow the good, and that is our imperative from a the Doza College of 96 00:07:32.279 --> 00:07:34.920 business. In fact, I have it right behind me here. Throw the 97 00:07:34.920 --> 00:07:41.279 good in business. So that's one way in which we determine our brand narrative, 98 00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:43.920 those key messages. But let me add to it what is so, 99 00:07:43.920 --> 00:07:50.120 so important. The data driven orientation from a digital first model perspective enables us 100 00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:56.519 to understand what works and doesn't work. We hear at at Notre Dame Medosa 101 00:07:56.519 --> 00:08:01.480 College of business, have put in market a couple thousand ads. May sound 102 00:08:01.519 --> 00:08:03.319 like a lot, but let me share with you how you get to that. 103 00:08:03.399 --> 00:08:07.680 All of them, you know, on message, all the lattering to 104 00:08:07.680 --> 00:08:11.680 our brand narrative, which speaks to a community mutual advancement, speaks to INTRIGRA 105 00:08:11.839 --> 00:08:16.560 leadership development, speaks to, you know, this notion of experiential learning that 106 00:08:16.600 --> 00:08:22.360 we believe as uniquely at Notre Dame. But from a messaging standpoint, across 107 00:08:22.360 --> 00:08:26.839 a digital ECO system, everything is instrumented, every single touch point is instrumented, 108 00:08:28.519 --> 00:08:33.960 interconnected across an integrated marketing communication plan and spins off intelligence. So the 109 00:08:33.960 --> 00:08:37.000 three eyes, if you will. You know there's nose, an instrumented, 110 00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:45.759 interconnected, intelligent we can, in real time, understand what messages are being 111 00:08:45.759 --> 00:08:50.200 completely ignored and, more importantly, what messages are being engaged with, such 112 00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:56.360 that we double down on what works and we change or stop what doesn't. 113 00:08:56.360 --> 00:09:01.279 Often when I find in across many industry you made a great strategy, but 114 00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:05.720 often we employ, not here at Notre Dame, but often schools grapple with 115 00:09:05.759 --> 00:09:11.039 this what I call a set and forget strategy. Build an incredible strategy and 116 00:09:11.080 --> 00:09:15.360 then put it market and wait and see and wait and see, and then 117 00:09:15.399 --> 00:09:18.399 you know, surprisingly, it may not work. So what we do is 118 00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:24.960 we call sense and respond. Every day we are measuring the degree of engagement 119 00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:28.639 with all of our messages, and let me share the notion of it's not 120 00:09:28.679 --> 00:09:33.080 one message. It's a personalized message based on data back to the persona that 121 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:37.679 is the right fit student. So the message is we deliver, help us 122 00:09:37.679 --> 00:09:43.320 shape the class profiles, enhance the diversity, enhance the women in business where 123 00:09:43.320 --> 00:09:46.519 business school. So you, women in business and so forth, were very 124 00:09:46.519 --> 00:09:50.679 target in these key segments that, you know, we believe can just continue 125 00:09:50.720 --> 00:09:54.480 to elevate the brand equity of Notre Dame Mendoza College of business and certainly, 126 00:09:54.519 --> 00:09:58.600 of course, the programs of themselves. That's great and I know you kind 127 00:09:58.600 --> 00:10:03.320 of mentioned those three eyes and I know in our pre conversation we talked a 128 00:10:03.320 --> 00:10:07.039 little bit about the what the smart marketing playbook is built on. What those 129 00:10:07.080 --> 00:10:09.679 what those tenants are? Are Those three eyes the tenants of the of the 130 00:10:09.679 --> 00:10:13.120 playbook or is there something different that you kind of are using as the tenants 131 00:10:13.120 --> 00:10:18.080 of the playbook? Yeah, so you look at the smarter marketing playbook, 132 00:10:18.120 --> 00:10:22.679 it is absolute data driven. That's central to it. It really really is. 133 00:10:22.799 --> 00:10:28.360 I did on top of it this notion of having a compelling value proposition. 134 00:10:28.399 --> 00:10:33.600 So you know really what is your unique value proposition and you use data 135 00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:37.000 to you deliver that from a digital first perspective. So digital is key. 136 00:10:37.080 --> 00:10:41.840 And then, you know, frankly, talent is everything. It really really 137 00:10:41.919 --> 00:10:43.039 is. So I would just you know, share also, I'm so, 138 00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:46.960 you know, proud of the team that they are just delivering with excellence, 139 00:10:46.960 --> 00:10:52.440 seeing very focused every day, living the values of Notre Dame and and, 140 00:10:52.519 --> 00:10:54.600 you know, being a force for good in the world, if you will, 141 00:10:54.600 --> 00:11:00.039 helping those, you know leaders of today and tomorrow right become the best 142 00:11:00.120 --> 00:11:03.759 versions of themselves and so forth. So that, I think, those are 143 00:11:03.799 --> 00:11:05.639 some of the the key pillars has helped us deliver on what I call the 144 00:11:05.679 --> 00:11:09.399 QUINTFECTA. So you know from a Quin fact if I made show, I 145 00:11:09.480 --> 00:11:13.759 pivot to that now or do you have a different so quin FECTA. One 146 00:11:13.799 --> 00:11:16.159 day I was sitting in my office and we've got these key metrics on my 147 00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:20.279 white board, you know, key metrics that I would assert every school, 148 00:11:20.279 --> 00:11:24.840 big school, small school, public, private, etc. Should be thinking 149 00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:28.399 about right, and that is, you know, the interest, the reputation 150 00:11:28.799 --> 00:11:31.960 of your institution could be measured, should be measured, at least to some 151 00:11:33.039 --> 00:11:37.000 extent, in terms of, you know, the applications right, what types 152 00:11:37.039 --> 00:11:41.799 of applicants are are being, you know, interested in your institution. And 153 00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:46.080 let me share what the quint fact is across the enrollment journey, and this 154 00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:52.240 enrollment journey is really, really important. The notion of applications submitted. That's 155 00:11:52.279 --> 00:11:58.759 one of the five Quinfecta elements. We've seen a surgeon interest from a application 156 00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:03.559 standpoint, and it's not just applications, although we love to see that increase. 157 00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:09.200 It's the type of applicants that are actually applying. Hence that we're able 158 00:12:09.240 --> 00:12:13.000 to increase our selectivity. What does that mean? We've got student bet you 159 00:12:13.039 --> 00:12:16.360 know, like an elevation, and you know, best fit, right fit 160 00:12:16.440 --> 00:12:20.840 students. In addition to that, the matriculated students have increased. So the 161 00:12:20.879 --> 00:12:26.879 first three of the five Quin fact application submitted increased, selectivity increased, matriculated 162 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:31.720 students increased. In addition to that, I'm very pleased to say the academic 163 00:12:31.879 --> 00:12:37.000 quality, academic readiness has improved as well. So we're business school, graduate 164 00:12:37.039 --> 00:12:39.840 school. Will talk about that here. What does that mean? That needs 165 00:12:39.840 --> 00:12:46.279 a gmat scores, gre scores, undergraduate GPA's average work experience. And the 166 00:12:46.279 --> 00:12:52.159 fifth component of the quint fact that I'm actually most proud of is the diversity 167 00:12:52.159 --> 00:12:56.159 we have elevated, the diversity within our classrooms with women in business, under 168 00:12:56.240 --> 00:13:01.960 represented minorities, is just a fantastic five, four five that you know. 169 00:13:01.960 --> 00:13:05.000 I'm optimistic. Actually we're going to go back to back with the five four 170 00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:07.960 fives, with where we are right now in our enrollment cycle. Some of 171 00:13:07.960 --> 00:13:13.399 our programs already at over a hundred percent increase your to year and applications, 172 00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:18.639 after seeing significant your your increases the last two years since we've deployed the smarter 173 00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:24.159 marketing playbook here at Notre Day. That's great. Would you be able to 174 00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:30.159 share some of the outcomes, positive outcomes that you have realized? Sure, 175 00:13:30.159 --> 00:13:33.720 happy to so. I'll go back to a point I mentioned a moment ago 176 00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:37.399 which I'd encourage everyone listening that's in the higher it space to think about, 177 00:13:37.480 --> 00:13:43.080 and that is this notion of enrollment journey. It's really important to understand who 178 00:13:43.159 --> 00:13:48.759 those right fit perspective students are and their journey to your institutions, knowing of 179 00:13:48.759 --> 00:13:54.159 course they're potentially likely applying to multiple schools. Right. So we look at 180 00:13:54.159 --> 00:14:00.080 from a enrollment journey standpoint is across all of our programs, how are we 181 00:14:00.159 --> 00:14:05.200 showing up at that in query stage when somebody across a digital ECO system, 182 00:14:05.240 --> 00:14:11.200 you know, shares their name, their email address, their phone number perhaps, 183 00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:16.639 reaches out and wants to talk to an emissions leader the notion of in 184 00:14:16.759 --> 00:14:22.240 query stage. Then we look at created APPS, we look at submitted APPS, 185 00:14:22.240 --> 00:14:26.039 we look at admits and then, ultimately enrollment and matriculation. And at 186 00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:30.879 each of those stages in I'll call the enrollment journey, we have key metrics 187 00:14:30.919 --> 00:14:33.960 that we look at program by program and then collectively. Let me give you 188 00:14:33.960 --> 00:14:37.639 a couple of data points here, as you ask. So from a data 189 00:14:37.720 --> 00:14:43.840 point perspective we've delivered a forty percent increase in queries, a twenty five percent 190 00:14:43.879 --> 00:14:48.080 increase in created APPS, twenty nine percent increase in submitted APPS, twenty six 191 00:14:48.120 --> 00:14:52.679 percent increase in admits and thirty percent increase in enrollment. So I look at 192 00:14:52.720 --> 00:14:56.919 this on an ongoing basis those key parameters. And when everything's green, green 193 00:14:58.039 --> 00:15:00.919 is good. We like Green. That I especially you're at notes. Youre 194 00:15:01.039 --> 00:15:05.360 Dame right go I wish green. So those are all green right now and 195 00:15:05.720 --> 00:15:09.639 looking very positive going forward. So those are the specific metrics and of course 196 00:15:09.720 --> 00:15:13.759 we do this at all program level. And then also programmed by program our 197 00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:18.559 MBA program versus are specialized masters, versus are executive programs and so forth. 198 00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:22.639 That's great. So you kind of talked a little bit about you touched on 199 00:15:22.679 --> 00:15:26.080 those three different programs that you're kind of utilizing the playbook in. How is 200 00:15:26.120 --> 00:15:30.639 that collaboratively working? I mean, obviously you're doing personas for each of the 201 00:15:30.639 --> 00:15:35.200 different programs. You're developing that enrollment journey and measuring those different programs, but 202 00:15:35.559 --> 00:15:41.039 talk to me a little bit about how those different aspects of the different programs 203 00:15:41.080 --> 00:15:43.919 collaborate underneath all of this. Sure, sure, Bart, so it is 204 00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:48.320 very much a collaborative, transparent process. Frankly, let me share with you 205 00:15:48.440 --> 00:15:52.480 the dashboard, the dashboard that I have on my computer that I, you 206 00:15:52.519 --> 00:15:56.000 know, look at every day, actually is the same dashboard that's on the 207 00:15:56.000 --> 00:16:00.440 Dean's computer as well. Frankly, he doesn't look at it, but if 208 00:16:00.440 --> 00:16:03.279 he wanted to, he certainly can write. And in addition to that, 209 00:16:03.320 --> 00:16:08.000 of course, there's academic program directors, there's marketeers, there's admissions, you 210 00:16:08.039 --> 00:16:11.159 know, and so forth. So we've got, you know, the single 211 00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:12.960 source of the truth, as how I refer to it. That right, 212 00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:18.399 everybody's opinions are welcomed. You know, everyone's entitled to their opinion. I 213 00:16:18.519 --> 00:16:22.240 welcome at all, but they're not entitled to their own set of data. 214 00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:25.879 Right. So we have one single source of the truth. That's then, 215 00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:29.559 you know, a real time dashboard, which has been great, drives tremendous 216 00:16:29.559 --> 00:16:33.879 Trans parency and accountability and team or right, it's a very collaborative it's a 217 00:16:33.879 --> 00:16:37.960 team sport. It really really is. And you know, that's not just 218 00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:44.080 for a dashboard. That's also from a persona perspective. The personas are built 219 00:16:44.120 --> 00:16:49.600 with marketeers, admissions team member, student services, Career Services, academic program 220 00:16:49.639 --> 00:16:56.360 directors, students, as well as those individuals who have applied to Notre Dame 221 00:16:56.639 --> 00:17:00.159 middle of the college in Business and for whatever reason, chose to go somewhere 222 00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:03.799 else. Right. So it's a very kind of wide inputs here from a 223 00:17:03.880 --> 00:17:11.400 data perspective and collaboration on the Personas, on the message, called message hierarchies 224 00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:15.519 or the message maps. We've got personas and message maps built for each of 225 00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:21.759 our programs such that we can deald our personalized messages based on that program and 226 00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:26.200 the right fit students for the program are. NBA students are different than our 227 00:17:26.200 --> 00:17:30.640 fifth year. You know specialized masters. They're different than the executive NBA. 228 00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:34.519 So we've got clarity on who those perspective students are that we would like to 229 00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:40.200 continue to cultivate and see in our classrooms. And you know what messages resonate 230 00:17:40.279 --> 00:17:42.680 and what message don't resonate. Right. So that's how we look at it 231 00:17:42.680 --> 00:17:47.880 from a collaboration standpoint. That's great, and I'm sure even down to the 232 00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:51.319 modality of the delivery of the messaging. I'm sure that you know the way 233 00:17:51.319 --> 00:17:55.720 that you're going to be talking to an executive education prospect and you know corporus. 234 00:17:55.880 --> 00:18:00.359 You See ceio or CFO or CEO is going to be different. Then 235 00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:03.680 you know the modality that you might do. For a moment. You know 236 00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:07.720 an older generation Z who's getting ready to go into their NBA program tell me 237 00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:10.920 a little bit about that. I mean, are there ways that you're doing 238 00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:14.359 that differently? Yeah, so, so you're exactly right, and you know 239 00:18:14.440 --> 00:18:19.079 each program is unique. Each program has their own priorities, if you will. 240 00:18:19.079 --> 00:18:25.119 Even you know, domestic versus international, stand based versus non stand based. 241 00:18:25.240 --> 00:18:29.440 Right, undergraduates who are liberal arts versus undergraduates or business students. So 242 00:18:29.640 --> 00:18:33.599 we look at all of those characteristic being very cognizant of where we are today 243 00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:37.599 and and where we want to be tomorrow, the notion of really shaping our 244 00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:44.119 classrooms going going forward. And I'd also suggest that it's not just about enrollment. 245 00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:48.039 Of course that's what I have responsibility for from a graduate enrollment is part 246 00:18:48.079 --> 00:18:51.759 of my cheap marketing graduate rollment perspective, but if you talk about marketing in 247 00:18:51.799 --> 00:18:56.400 general, it represents the entire school and all of our stakeholders. From a 248 00:18:56.440 --> 00:19:02.200 curriculum development standpoint, I talked about it in regards to the brand integrity index 249 00:19:02.319 --> 00:19:07.640 or the promise to performance metric. So those brand promises that we're making, 250 00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:11.440 are we delivering on them from a performance standpoint? Right? Are we INSYNC 251 00:19:11.480 --> 00:19:15.480 from an integrity standpoint? And that's helped transform a number of things, frankly, 252 00:19:15.720 --> 00:19:19.000 from curriculum development an example. So you know, one of those key 253 00:19:19.039 --> 00:19:25.240 pillars under that supports our brand imparative to grow the good business is Integra leadership 254 00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:30.720 development. Another is experiential learning on the front lines that how, from a 255 00:19:30.759 --> 00:19:36.160 curriculum perspective, are we delivering on those promises? That's really important and we've 256 00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:41.279 seen some great progress there as we go forward. So the data informs much 257 00:19:41.319 --> 00:19:45.599 more than just graduate enrollment. Just wanted to kind of share that point as 258 00:19:45.680 --> 00:19:52.079 well. That's great. It seems it's evident that this playbook delivers huge success. 259 00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:56.400 But let me ask you, how confident would you be to say we 260 00:19:56.480 --> 00:20:02.599 wanted to double the enrollment and not today? Yeah, so I would say 261 00:20:02.599 --> 00:20:06.079 we could actually do it. In fact, we don't intend to do that 262 00:20:06.119 --> 00:20:10.359 for the right reasons. Right what are classrooms? Only so large and but 263 00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:15.720 importantly, we focus on quality. Quality, is that the most important thing 264 00:20:15.720 --> 00:20:19.440 here? Obviously it's, you know, quality and quantity. Given the curriculum 265 00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:22.880 parameters that we have at play, a number of faculty, size of classrooms 266 00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:26.400 and so forth. We're very purposeful to, you know, be thoughtful in 267 00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:33.000 our growth approaches. This playbook can accelerate tremendous growth, and it has, 268 00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:37.759 but it's thoughtful, discipline growth in those key areas. I'll also add we 269 00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:41.599 have not increased the budget. This is not a matter of increasing budgets. 270 00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:45.680 It's just better use of existing budgets. That's really, really important for a 271 00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:48.039 lot of the listeners. I'm sure they're they're wondering, you know, how 272 00:20:48.039 --> 00:20:51.400 do you get these tremendous results. It's not by increasing the budget, although 273 00:20:51.440 --> 00:20:56.519 that is nice, of course. It's about smaller usage of existing budgets and, 274 00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:00.559 importantly, quantifying the return on investment from said budget, so you can 275 00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:04.160 improve budget based on looking at, you know, return investment metrics. I 276 00:21:04.200 --> 00:21:10.279 could as certain literally the dollar amount that will be required to double our enrollment, 277 00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:14.960 because everything's instrument. We have cost per in query, costper created APP 278 00:21:14.960 --> 00:21:17.960 and it's different bites program all the way through the funnel, of course, 279 00:21:17.960 --> 00:21:22.240 to cost per enrollment from an investment. I actually prefer the word investment to 280 00:21:22.359 --> 00:21:26.160 expense and in cost. Well, that's very exciting. So my next question 281 00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:30.279 if you're not going to use it to double the enrollment at nor to dame, 282 00:21:30.680 --> 00:21:37.279 is this available to other schools, other leaders or's? This is something 283 00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:41.319 that's exclusive to you. Appreciate that that question. I share a couple of 284 00:21:41.319 --> 00:21:47.359 comments. One, I'd be happy to have conversations with your listeners in terms 285 00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:52.799 of sharing the path rawn and have in fact spent a number of speaking sessions 286 00:21:52.839 --> 00:21:57.799 conveying this this, you know, framework approach that we have underway. Secondly, 287 00:21:59.160 --> 00:22:02.880 there will be a peer review paper coming out here in the next month 288 00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:07.359 or so. That speaks to this, you know, brand narrative, elevation 289 00:22:07.480 --> 00:22:10.880 of brand equity. So look for that coming out and you know. Thirdly, 290 00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:15.279 if you're interested, I actually run a bowling consulting business. My wife 291 00:22:15.319 --> 00:22:18.160 actually is one who runs the business. Does a tremendous, you know, 292 00:22:18.200 --> 00:22:23.400 performance there in helping higher education institutions and you know, other industries as well, 293 00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:30.359 deploy brand strategy and smarter marketing and enrollment or or sales at ativity. 294 00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:33.480 So happy that to help. Very good will. We will give you an 295 00:22:33.480 --> 00:22:38.559 opportunity to give your information so people can contact you, but before we do 296 00:22:38.599 --> 00:22:42.160 we're going to make you give one piece of advice for free. We always 297 00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:48.759 ask our guest if there is one takeaway that you could give that someone could 298 00:22:48.920 --> 00:22:53.440 implement today or Monday that could have some impact. What would that piece of 299 00:22:53.440 --> 00:22:57.599 advice be? Sure, so let me give one piece of free advice and 300 00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:02.200 maybe a second as well. So I really, you know, would encourage 301 00:23:02.279 --> 00:23:07.839 everybody to think about the enrollment journey. Think about this not, as you 302 00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:12.079 know, one moment, but the notion of journeys. That really is is 303 00:23:12.200 --> 00:23:15.319 essential. It really really does. So I'd encourage you to think about that. 304 00:23:15.640 --> 00:23:21.960 Encourage your teams to really think through those activities that take place. You 305 00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:25.279 know, before someone shows up on your website, before they show up in 306 00:23:25.319 --> 00:23:29.759 your your classroom, that that journey is really, really important. And then 307 00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:33.279 the second you know, as I may I add another we've talked about this 308 00:23:33.319 --> 00:23:37.079 already. It's data right. Data, digital first, is the key here. 309 00:23:37.240 --> 00:23:41.680 Right. The world, how we live, work interacting by has fundamentally 310 00:23:41.799 --> 00:23:45.680 changed before the pandemic and even more so, you know, as we continue 311 00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:48.759 to find ourselves working our way out of this pandemic. Right, this no 312 00:23:48.839 --> 00:23:52.960 shit. Digital First, data matters a lot. There's still a lot of 313 00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:56.480 traditional techniques that are taking place across the higher education landscape, and I'd encourage 314 00:23:56.480 --> 00:24:03.640 you to think about digital first and shifting some of your investment accordingly to connect 315 00:24:03.680 --> 00:24:07.359 across that journey. It will, it will yield tremendous success. That would 316 00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:12.480 be my guidance here. Wonderful Tim thank you so much. This is very 317 00:24:12.480 --> 00:24:18.720 exciting. Now would love to give you an opportunity to give our listeners how 318 00:24:18.839 --> 00:24:22.000 they can contact you if they're interested in the playbook, if they're interested in 319 00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:26.000 the peer review or just to simply connect with you. Sure. So, 320 00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:30.559 couple ways. One, I'm on Linkedin. Certainly look for me. They're 321 00:24:30.759 --> 00:24:36.079 on Linkedin. Secondly, tim at Bowling Consultingcom, you can get me there, 322 00:24:36.200 --> 00:24:38.720 or t bowling at indie dotted. You again, happy to you know, 323 00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:44.279 engage to help. You know, really this is such a tremendous profession. 324 00:24:44.319 --> 00:24:48.880 Having, you know, relatively recently moved into higher at after twenty plus 325 00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:52.880 years and industry. I feel it's on us to help your shepherd the next 326 00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:56.839 generation of marketeers and the you know, what a purposeful industry right. So, 327 00:24:57.200 --> 00:25:00.599 anyway I can help, just feel free to reach out. Happy to 328 00:25:00.640 --> 00:25:03.720 have the conversation and see where it goes. Thank you, Tim, and 329 00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:10.599 I do want to make note that bowling is Boh l I g. you've 330 00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:14.880 been a wonderful guest and I look forward to following you. I look forward 331 00:25:14.920 --> 00:25:18.240 to the peer review and to learn more about the playbook. Thank you so 332 00:25:18.319 --> 00:25:22.440 much. As pleasure spending time with you. Bart. What are your last 333 00:25:22.599 --> 00:25:26.519 minute takeaways or thoughts that you can share before we wind up our episode? 334 00:25:26.599 --> 00:25:30.240 Yeah, I just want to point out a few things that Tim had said 335 00:25:30.279 --> 00:25:32.799 and certainly I encourage you to go back and listen to some of the other 336 00:25:32.839 --> 00:25:36.480 details but a few things Tim's done an excellent job of articulating, I think, 337 00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:38.799 what I would call some basic blocking and tackling from marketing. We're talking 338 00:25:38.839 --> 00:25:44.200 about being authentic and distinctive in your messaging. We're talking about personas, taking 339 00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:48.759 the time to develop those personas per audience and per program within those audiences. 340 00:25:48.799 --> 00:25:51.599 I mean you can't just say, oh, the personas graduate, you know, 341 00:25:51.720 --> 00:25:55.240 students, know it's it's either MBA students or it's, you know, 342 00:25:55.319 --> 00:25:57.680 it's executive NBA. There's a lot of and even within their tim kind of 343 00:25:57.880 --> 00:26:02.799 hinted at that. There's even segments within each of those. So there's women 344 00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:06.000 in business, there's minorities, there's different ways of looking at that. So 345 00:26:06.319 --> 00:26:11.039 the blocking and tackling of authenticity, of distinctiveness of Personas, and especially this 346 00:26:11.079 --> 00:26:14.079 idea of customer journeys be one of the things that we hear a lot about 347 00:26:14.119 --> 00:26:18.160 US customer journeys or enrollment journeys and the mapping of that and taking the time, 348 00:26:18.599 --> 00:26:22.279 just like you would with personas, of actually documenting all of that down 349 00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:25.759 so that you have an idea of what are the questions that your perspective, 350 00:26:25.759 --> 00:26:29.200 students are asking at this part of their journey and how can you create that 351 00:26:29.240 --> 00:26:32.720 messaging in that content that's going to answer those kinds of questions, and so 352 00:26:32.920 --> 00:26:36.279 I think that's really important just to kind of go back and listen to some 353 00:26:36.319 --> 00:26:37.920 of those points again. And then finally, I just want to really focus 354 00:26:37.960 --> 00:26:42.079 on the data. I Love Tim's quote about you know, data equals truth. 355 00:26:42.119 --> 00:26:45.000 You know that is it doesn't matter if you're a big school like Notre 356 00:26:45.079 --> 00:26:48.799 Dame or purdue or University of Kentucky, or you're really tiny school. You 357 00:26:48.839 --> 00:26:52.640 have access to data. You might have to figure it out how to get 358 00:26:52.720 --> 00:26:55.640 to it. You might not be able to have a real fancy dashboard, 359 00:26:55.680 --> 00:26:57.720 you might just be doing it out of excel or Google sheets, but you 360 00:26:57.799 --> 00:27:02.279 have access to day to drive that data. Use that day to look at 361 00:27:02.319 --> 00:27:04.839 that data. Use that data that you've got access to, the funnel data. 362 00:27:04.880 --> 00:27:07.440 You can figure out how many apps you have. You can figure out 363 00:27:07.480 --> 00:27:11.400 how many you know what the quality of those apps. You know how many 364 00:27:11.400 --> 00:27:15.880 people have matriculated. You can put that quinfect it's together for yourself and that's 365 00:27:15.880 --> 00:27:18.599 going to give you a lot more. It's gonna give you vision on what's 366 00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:21.759 going on. And it's only when you have that vision and that clarity that 367 00:27:21.799 --> 00:27:25.119 you can make those good decisions, and so I think that goes back to 368 00:27:25.160 --> 00:27:26.319 a lot of what Tim said. And there at the end just the idea 369 00:27:26.319 --> 00:27:30.400 of being smarter with what you have. I hear so to too many schools, 370 00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:33.640 especially small schools at Beman, about the fact that, Oh, if 371 00:27:33.640 --> 00:27:37.319 we just had a bigger budget, if we were a notre dame boy, 372 00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:38.960 we could do that. No, it's more about the matter of using what 373 00:27:40.039 --> 00:27:42.880 you have and being smarter with it, using the data and apply it accordingly. 374 00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:45.839 So really appreciate your time to day, Tim. It's been a it's 375 00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:48.640 been a wonderful lesson. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure being 376 00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:52.680 with you. I wish you everyone the best. The High Ed Marker podcast 377 00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:57.119 the sponsored by Kaylor solutions and education, marking and branding agency and by Think, 378 00:27:57.160 --> 00:28:03.640 patented, a marketing execution company combining print, data and personalization for campaign 379 00:28:03.720 --> 00:28:08.559 success. On behalf of my cohost Bart Kaylor, I'm troy singer. Thank 380 00:28:08.599 --> 00:28:15.400 you for joining us. You've been listening to the Higher Ed Marketer. To 381 00:28:15.559 --> 00:28:18.319 ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite 382 00:28:18.319 --> 00:28:22.880 podcast player. If you're listening with apple PODCASTS, we'd love for you to 383 00:28:22.960 --> 00:28:26.519 leave a quick rating of the show. Simply tap the number of stars you 384 00:28:26.519 --> 00:28:30.359 think the podcast deserves. Until next time,