Building Stronger Relationships Using Data w/ JP Spagnolo

WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.879 --> 00:00:07.190 You are listening to the Higher Ed Marketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals 2 00:00:07.230 --> 00:00:11.910 in higher education. This show will tackle all sorts of questions related to student 3 00:00:11.949 --> 00:00:16.230 recruitment, don't a relations, marketing trends, new technologies and so much more. 4 00:00:16.989 --> 00:00:20.230 If you are looking for conversations centered around where the industry is going, 5 00:00:20.750 --> 00:00:29.739 this podcast is for you. Let's get into the show. Welcome to the 6 00:00:29.820 --> 00:00:35.700 High Ed Marketer podcast, where we explore insights and ideas by high reed marketers 7 00:00:36.049 --> 00:00:39.369 for Higher Ed Marketers. My name is Troye singer and I'm here with my 8 00:00:39.490 --> 00:00:43.649 cohost, Bart Kaylor. And Bart, we are five episodes in. What 9 00:00:43.770 --> 00:00:47.490 are your thoughts? You know, it's been quite a ride and it's been 10 00:00:47.490 --> 00:00:51.039 a blessing to be able to just learn so much from all the different guests 11 00:00:51.039 --> 00:00:54.359 we've had. I mean, it's a it's been a journey and I'm excited 12 00:00:54.399 --> 00:00:57.679 that we're going to continue that journey and, you know, I think it's 13 00:00:57.679 --> 00:01:00.799 all the more important that we recognize it. You know, as Higher Ed 14 00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:03.920 marketers what we're not in it alone and we have so much to learn from 15 00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:07.670 one another. So true from the very beginning, one of our goals was 16 00:01:07.150 --> 00:01:11.950 to put higher ed marketers and highlight them, highlight relatable things that they are 17 00:01:12.030 --> 00:01:17.709 doing so others can learn from them. And you have some history with our 18 00:01:17.790 --> 00:01:21.140 guests today. So who are we chatting with? What we're going to be 19 00:01:21.180 --> 00:01:25.620 talking with? JP SPAGNALO. He is the vice president of enrollment and marketing 20 00:01:25.620 --> 00:01:29.900 at capital Universe in Columbus Ohio, and he and I've worked together before and 21 00:01:30.340 --> 00:01:34.730 some of his past places at University of St Francis and and Fort Wayne and 22 00:01:34.450 --> 00:01:38.090 I've gotten a no JP very well and he's a great guy. He has 23 00:01:38.129 --> 00:01:42.409 a lot of interesting stories to tell and it's interesting that he's kind of started 24 00:01:42.489 --> 00:01:47.129 off in the you know, the missions department as as an admissions counselor and 25 00:01:47.159 --> 00:01:49.799 then to grow see him grow along the way, and I was I was 26 00:01:49.799 --> 00:01:53.040 around when he was working on his doctor to kind of arrive at being the 27 00:01:53.079 --> 00:01:56.760 vice president for enrollment in marketing. It's a great story. He's got some 28 00:01:57.000 --> 00:02:00.239 some really fascinating aspects to tell us about. Great and with that said, 29 00:02:00.670 --> 00:02:07.629 let's bring him in. I'm excited to welcome JP speck no loo, vice 30 00:02:07.750 --> 00:02:12.189 president is strategic and rollment management in marketing at Kapital University, to the High 31 00:02:12.229 --> 00:02:15.819 Ed Marketer podcast. Thank you for joining us to day, JP. Oh, 32 00:02:15.099 --> 00:02:19.060 you're welcome. I'm very happy to be here, JP. We're going 33 00:02:19.139 --> 00:02:24.460 to get into a lot of your journey going from dated professional to a marketing 34 00:02:24.500 --> 00:02:29.500 professional and high and now how you marry those together to half the success you 35 00:02:29.659 --> 00:02:31.810 have at capital. But before you do that, can you give us some 36 00:02:31.969 --> 00:02:36.849 little bit of your personal life, maybe one or two aspects that people might 37 00:02:36.889 --> 00:02:39.289 not know about you and cannot see in your linkedin profile? Sure, I 38 00:02:39.370 --> 00:02:43.729 mean it's probably not a big shocker, but I'm a family guy, so 39 00:02:44.319 --> 00:02:46.919 you know I've got a wife and three children. They mean the world to 40 00:02:46.039 --> 00:02:50.840 me and anytime I'm not doing with this work related stuff, we do everything 41 00:02:50.879 --> 00:02:53.199 we can to make sure we're connect and having a great time as a family 42 00:02:53.439 --> 00:02:55.879 and going out and doing the things we enjoy together. That's great. Thanks. 43 00:02:55.960 --> 00:03:00.710 JP. It's great to have you on the podcast and our listeners should 44 00:03:00.710 --> 00:03:04.069 know that you're not known each other for several years now and have done some 45 00:03:04.229 --> 00:03:07.830 work together, and so one of the things that as I was thinking about 46 00:03:07.830 --> 00:03:09.870 guests on this podcast, I remember our conversation you and I had when you 47 00:03:09.909 --> 00:03:14.900 were in the midst of your Doctor Program and I'm just curious about the growth 48 00:03:14.979 --> 00:03:16.939 of your career. I mean I've been around for part of that, and 49 00:03:17.539 --> 00:03:20.699 just tell me a little bit about how you get started in your path to 50 00:03:20.780 --> 00:03:23.620 becoming the vice president of enrollment, of marketing at a capital. Didn't start 51 00:03:23.620 --> 00:03:25.740 out there where, so tell me Atle bit about that. Sure. So 52 00:03:25.979 --> 00:03:30.770 I think for me my path started actually clear back when I was in my 53 00:03:30.889 --> 00:03:35.930 undergraduate experience right at my Alma Mater and in my undergraduate program I had a 54 00:03:35.969 --> 00:03:37.930 different path that I thought I was going to do. I thought I was 55 00:03:37.969 --> 00:03:39.889 going to be a child point therapist and as I got towards the end of 56 00:03:39.930 --> 00:03:44.319 my senior year, I recognize that it wasn't the right thing for me. 57 00:03:44.639 --> 00:03:47.439 But you know, I also had been involved as a student leader and gotten 58 00:03:47.680 --> 00:03:53.319 wellknown across campus as being somebody that cared about the institution and was very committed 59 00:03:53.319 --> 00:03:55.990 to it, and I got an opportunity to start off in a program there 60 00:03:55.990 --> 00:04:00.710 at the university as a coordinator for a mentoring program. So after I graduated 61 00:04:00.789 --> 00:04:04.150 I started in this role of being a coordinator for a mentor program that really 62 00:04:04.189 --> 00:04:10.340 helped first year students connect to the campus through having junior and senior mentors paired 63 00:04:10.379 --> 00:04:13.900 with faculty members to help teach their first year experience course. I think you 64 00:04:13.979 --> 00:04:16.620 know that's that's where I started. I started off in this student services type 65 00:04:17.060 --> 00:04:20.459 path within higher education, trying to be, you know, connected to students 66 00:04:20.500 --> 00:04:25.250 and along the path there, and we've talked about this and telling the story 67 00:04:25.370 --> 00:04:29.410 that, you know, one point in time the institution decided that orientation, 68 00:04:29.689 --> 00:04:31.689 you know, something that such a relational type of thing, was better served 69 00:04:31.730 --> 00:04:34.970 online. And this is queer back in the two thousand range. So you 70 00:04:35.050 --> 00:04:39.040 got to imagine, you what an orientation in two thousand online was like. 71 00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:42.600 You know, that's leading web pages that are just loaded, bitter static. 72 00:04:42.920 --> 00:04:45.600 You know, there wasn't really a lot of video placement and you know, 73 00:04:45.720 --> 00:04:48.000 it just didn't connect well with people. And then after that took place, 74 00:04:48.240 --> 00:04:51.480 it was the first year at this institution in a number of years that they 75 00:04:51.519 --> 00:04:56.550 didn't have growth when they switched over to this online orientation and you know, 76 00:04:56.589 --> 00:04:59.949 they just couldn't quite figure out what when wrong. And the Dina Students, 77 00:04:59.949 --> 00:05:01.870 he kind of had this feeling that it really had to do with that relationship 78 00:05:01.870 --> 00:05:04.589 and that connecting and I think you hear that a lot, probably throughout our 79 00:05:04.589 --> 00:05:09.060 podcast to day, that I really do believe marketing is so relational. Everything 80 00:05:09.100 --> 00:05:12.339 that we do is relational. And as that was taking place, and that 81 00:05:12.459 --> 00:05:15.459 took place, he asked who would be willing to reset this orientation? Let's 82 00:05:15.459 --> 00:05:19.100 get back to doing a traditional orientation, and I think for whatever reason my 83 00:05:19.220 --> 00:05:23.569 hand got raised and or I was a volunt old and not quite sure how 84 00:05:23.569 --> 00:05:27.410 to express that, but I decided to look at this orientation stuff and the 85 00:05:27.490 --> 00:05:30.050 first thing I did is I start asking how do we communicate with people? 86 00:05:30.490 --> 00:05:32.329 And that was really, quite frankly, what moved me on this path, 87 00:05:32.370 --> 00:05:35.480 I think, and asking that question, I started asking what is it that 88 00:05:35.600 --> 00:05:41.040 we're doing to let students know about orientation, and so I started asking about 89 00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:44.480 the data behind it and I start asking questions about how many people are opening 90 00:05:44.480 --> 00:05:47.680 up our emails and how many people are connecting communicating with us, and essentially 91 00:05:47.759 --> 00:05:51.029 that really read to this point where no one had really paid attention to those 92 00:05:51.029 --> 00:05:54.949 data points. So I was able to start looking at it and say, 93 00:05:55.029 --> 00:05:57.670 you know, not only can we create a new orientation, but we really 94 00:05:57.670 --> 00:06:00.709 can get people excited to come and be a part of this relationship and really 95 00:06:00.790 --> 00:06:04.060 enjoy the campus community. And as I did that, it kind of expanded 96 00:06:04.100 --> 00:06:08.139 from there. Wasn't just about getting people the orientation, which we were able 97 00:06:08.139 --> 00:06:11.899 to next year have another growth here at the institution. The yield went right 98 00:06:11.899 --> 00:06:15.180 back up again once we put a good orientation into place. But they started 99 00:06:15.259 --> 00:06:18.370 recognizing that I was asking all these questions about communication and connecting with students and 100 00:06:18.490 --> 00:06:21.529 that really led to my next role within the institution, which became the director 101 00:06:21.529 --> 00:06:26.050 of enrollment marketing at that institution. And so at that point in time I 102 00:06:26.129 --> 00:06:29.769 started to kind of shift and change my balance and started working with the recruitment 103 00:06:29.810 --> 00:06:31.730 side of the House, obviously as a director of enrollment marketing, and really 104 00:06:31.769 --> 00:06:34.480 worked with the recruiters, but I didn't work with the rest of the admissions 105 00:06:34.560 --> 00:06:38.319 areas. So at the same time I wasn't in charge of marketing for the 106 00:06:38.360 --> 00:06:41.879 institution, but I was a steward over marketing for, you know, the 107 00:06:41.959 --> 00:06:45.279 enrollment management and everything that was going on there. And from there I kind 108 00:06:45.279 --> 00:06:46.829 of you know, had opportunities that were presented to me. I'd came the 109 00:06:46.910 --> 00:06:51.350 director of admissions at the University of St Francis and Port Wayne, Indiana, 110 00:06:51.829 --> 00:06:57.430 and during my tenure there, I had some opportunities for growth and essentially became 111 00:06:57.470 --> 00:07:00.860 the associate vice president for enrollment management. And during those time frames there were 112 00:07:01.100 --> 00:07:04.660 moments where I was kind of helping to stewardship marketing and there were times where 113 00:07:04.899 --> 00:07:08.300 I was, you know, being a partner with others who were leading the 114 00:07:08.339 --> 00:07:12.259 marketing elements of that institution. And then after my time at St Francis, 115 00:07:12.540 --> 00:07:15.209 I came to Capital University and when I first game to Capital University I came 116 00:07:15.250 --> 00:07:18.050 in the role of Vice President for strategic and Roman management, and then, 117 00:07:18.129 --> 00:07:21.370 after I'd been doing that for a number of years, they had a central 118 00:07:21.410 --> 00:07:25.930 marketing department with a different vice president, but they had made the determination that 119 00:07:25.970 --> 00:07:29.970 it was time to consolidate those two things together. So now I have that 120 00:07:30.040 --> 00:07:33.000 opportunity to directly work with both the inrollment management and the marketing elements of the 121 00:07:33.040 --> 00:07:36.040 campus community. So that's kind of my background. It's kind of come full 122 00:07:36.079 --> 00:07:40.000 circle. I mean the whole idea that, you know, why you didn't 123 00:07:40.000 --> 00:07:43.720 necessarily have a marketing degree or what some people would kind of consider, you 124 00:07:43.800 --> 00:07:46.949 know, the path to marketing of creative or business design or other things like 125 00:07:46.990 --> 00:07:51.350 that. I think it's fascinating to me that just by asking the questions, 126 00:07:51.389 --> 00:07:55.389 asking the questions, how are we communicating? How are we doing this? 127 00:07:55.550 --> 00:07:59.139 Why are we doing it this way? That's such a big assence of what 128 00:07:59.300 --> 00:08:01.819 marketing is all about and I think that's pretty fascinating in your story, and 129 00:08:03.339 --> 00:08:05.899 you know it's what's it been like, I guess, to kind of move 130 00:08:05.980 --> 00:08:09.860 it to that position now that you have the ultimate responsibility for all the marketing 131 00:08:09.899 --> 00:08:13.129 work? I mean you had different roles of responsibility at different institutions, but 132 00:08:13.250 --> 00:08:18.089 but now it's kind of like all that rolls up underneath you. I what 133 00:08:18.170 --> 00:08:20.370 does that look like, because I know a lot of times peers, especially 134 00:08:20.610 --> 00:08:26.250 sitting at the cabinet level position, sometimes peers, I think, often see 135 00:08:26.410 --> 00:08:31.040 marketing is a little bit more subjective than maybe objective. How does that how 136 00:08:31.079 --> 00:08:33.759 does that work, and how do you navigate some of that? You know, 137 00:08:33.840 --> 00:08:35.039 and I kind of alluded to this a little bit earlier, but you 138 00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:39.039 know, I truly believe marketing starts in a couple of core things. One 139 00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:41.870 is understanding your messages right, but the messages are all about building relationships, 140 00:08:43.070 --> 00:08:46.190 right. The intent is to be able to strengthen the relationships with the perspective 141 00:08:46.230 --> 00:08:48.789 students, if that's the target market you're working with. In my role, 142 00:08:48.909 --> 00:08:52.789 you know, I serve both the prospective student audience as well as the other 143 00:08:52.230 --> 00:08:56.740 elements of marketing on campus, and in every one of those places it's about 144 00:08:56.779 --> 00:09:00.620 making sure that you have strong relationships and being able to help people understand and 145 00:09:00.740 --> 00:09:03.659 to learn from other people what it is that we're trying to do to create 146 00:09:03.740 --> 00:09:07.139 the right messages right and so I think that's really important. I'd say another 147 00:09:07.179 --> 00:09:09.850 part of it is recognizing where your strengths are and also knowing where you need 148 00:09:09.889 --> 00:09:13.250 to have partners and have other people take the weight and, you know, 149 00:09:13.570 --> 00:09:16.090 make sure that they are able to express, you know, what it is 150 00:09:16.169 --> 00:09:20.330 that they bring the table, and so, you know, I would say 151 00:09:20.330 --> 00:09:22.690 in the role that I have, a lot of it is that ability to 152 00:09:22.769 --> 00:09:26.000 really recognize what the needs are and make sure that we're organizing in a way 153 00:09:26.039 --> 00:09:30.159 that we're using the strengths of those around us to be able to craft our 154 00:09:30.159 --> 00:09:33.679 message in a clear and concise manner to the different audiences that we're trying to 155 00:09:33.720 --> 00:09:35.720 do that with. So we've talked about this a lot of times. I 156 00:09:35.759 --> 00:09:39.909 think to bark both you and I over the years that that does mean in 157 00:09:39.990 --> 00:09:41.669 a role like this, sometimes you need to outsource some of those elements. 158 00:09:41.710 --> 00:09:45.909 You need to work with partners that are outside of your institution to be able 159 00:09:45.909 --> 00:09:48.710 to bring in the expertise to make sure that the message that you're creating really 160 00:09:48.750 --> 00:09:52.980 resonates with the audience that you're trying to build that relationship with. And that 161 00:09:52.220 --> 00:09:56.740 goes the same for internally within a campus community as well. So you know, 162 00:09:56.779 --> 00:09:58.299 when you're working with other members of a cabinet or if you're working with 163 00:09:58.580 --> 00:10:01.539 faculty members and different departments, at the end of the day, being able 164 00:10:01.539 --> 00:10:05.820 to build a relationship with them, understand their needs and make sure that you 165 00:10:05.860 --> 00:10:07.570 get the right expert teas to help support you know what it is they're trying 166 00:10:07.570 --> 00:10:11.210 to accomplish. You'll find a lot of success in doing it that way. 167 00:10:11.889 --> 00:10:16.129 And listening to you, I hear a lot of you talk about strings to 168 00:10:16.330 --> 00:10:20.600 talk about communication, you talk about engaging different people that are working with you 169 00:10:20.840 --> 00:10:24.600 and working beneath you. Can you give us a couple of examples of how 170 00:10:24.679 --> 00:10:31.480 that has benefited you and helped you on your journey? Absolutely, you know, 171 00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:35.320 there are so many different times throughout my career where it's been sitting down 172 00:10:35.320 --> 00:10:37.830 with a conversation and somebody else and then, through that connecting and having that 173 00:10:37.950 --> 00:10:41.509 conversation, were able to really, you know, move something forward. That's 174 00:10:41.590 --> 00:10:45.470 that's important. I'm trying to come up with a quick, specific example, 175 00:10:45.629 --> 00:10:48.429 but but there's not one that's jumping right into my mind right off the bat 176 00:10:48.509 --> 00:10:50.340 here. But having said that, you know, I do know that these 177 00:10:50.419 --> 00:10:54.419 moments that we have connecting with each other make a big difference in our ability 178 00:10:54.460 --> 00:10:58.740 to, you know, make things happen within an organization. That's great. 179 00:10:58.539 --> 00:11:01.340 I know that, JP, when we did some work together at University of 180 00:11:01.340 --> 00:11:03.529 St Francis, I know that. You know, you mentioned that you were 181 00:11:03.570 --> 00:11:07.610 kind of the director of admissions at that time and you were working as part 182 00:11:07.610 --> 00:11:09.370 of a team that I would have been asked to come in as a part 183 00:11:09.370 --> 00:11:13.169 of through various means. I know when we kind of talked prior to the 184 00:11:13.409 --> 00:11:16.809 the podcast, you know you kind of kind of notice some things when you 185 00:11:16.850 --> 00:11:22.000 came into the university that that from from a marketing perspective, that needed to 186 00:11:22.039 --> 00:11:24.000 change. And it might be the case for a lot of our schools that 187 00:11:24.039 --> 00:11:28.480 are listening where they might not be aware of maybe some of the things that 188 00:11:28.639 --> 00:11:31.120 need to be changed because they're so focused on brand or so focused on the 189 00:11:31.159 --> 00:11:35.710 way that trying to keep a consistency. Tell us a little bit about what 190 00:11:35.750 --> 00:11:39.669 that story was like and how that impacted the enrollment. Yeah, so when 191 00:11:39.669 --> 00:11:41.990 I first came to the University of St Francis, one of the challenges they 192 00:11:43.029 --> 00:11:46.110 had is that they really weren't clear on how they wanted to execute marketing for 193 00:11:46.179 --> 00:11:50.659 the whole institution. They had for a number of years been working with a 194 00:11:50.779 --> 00:11:54.259 third party company as the marketing team for the entire institution. There wasn't anybody 195 00:11:54.379 --> 00:12:00.139 on campus as a point person for marketing. Instead, the different department heads, 196 00:12:00.460 --> 00:12:03.850 chairs, deans, the enrollment management team, we all would work through 197 00:12:03.850 --> 00:12:05.529 this third party company. That helped to kind of make sure that we were 198 00:12:05.570 --> 00:12:09.929 staying on brand and to support us in our marketing needs. And you know, 199 00:12:09.970 --> 00:12:11.330 I think there were reasons that they were doing it when I came to 200 00:12:11.409 --> 00:12:16.679 the institution, but over time it wasn't really lining up with the institutions needs 201 00:12:16.759 --> 00:12:20.639 to really move to the next level. And a real specific example in the 202 00:12:20.679 --> 00:12:24.360 admission side of things. When I came there they were doing everything other than 203 00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:28.320 the view book itself in just one color print, it was all blue. 204 00:12:28.759 --> 00:12:31.389 Everything was blue with shades of blue, but they didn't have, you know, 205 00:12:31.549 --> 00:12:35.750 for color pieces of material that we're going out there, and I think 206 00:12:35.789 --> 00:12:37.029 some of that was to save some money, but I think some of that 207 00:12:37.190 --> 00:12:41.629 was just that there wasn't quite a connection, a deep enough connection, between 208 00:12:41.710 --> 00:12:45.340 that Third Party Company and the institution. There were some gaps in the communication 209 00:12:45.379 --> 00:12:48.100 about what was necessary in the needs and I would say that one of the 210 00:12:48.139 --> 00:12:52.299 things that happened in that process is that, coming into that role, I 211 00:12:52.419 --> 00:12:54.700 really wanted to make sure that we did the best we could within the way 212 00:12:54.860 --> 00:12:58.690 we are structured, and so I immediately kind of spent some time with that 213 00:13:00.009 --> 00:13:03.210 company and one of the things we did is we talked about it from beginning 214 00:13:03.250 --> 00:13:05.090 and said we really need to make this brand come up into, you know, 215 00:13:05.690 --> 00:13:09.289 today's type of style and market. We need to get this really at 216 00:13:09.330 --> 00:13:11.169 a different level. And the way we did that as we've actually had this 217 00:13:11.289 --> 00:13:16.720 really productive meeting where we came together and before the meeting I actually went around 218 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:20.080 and found a whole bunch of, I would just say, natural design assets 219 00:13:20.120 --> 00:13:24.039 from other types of companies that were out there that we're hitting our youth in 220 00:13:24.120 --> 00:13:26.350 the target market we're trying to accomplish. So I'd gone to the mall and 221 00:13:26.389 --> 00:13:31.029 I picked up a few different catalogs from places like Ambercrombie and Fitch was popular 222 00:13:31.070 --> 00:13:33.149 at the time, the buckle. There are a couple other ones that were 223 00:13:33.190 --> 00:13:35.710 popular, and I brought him in there and said, if this is the 224 00:13:35.789 --> 00:13:37.629 market we're trying to get to, we can't be like these blue smurf pieces 225 00:13:37.750 --> 00:13:41.460 of paper any longer. We really need to get ourselves to a place that 226 00:13:41.500 --> 00:13:45.220 really communicates and connects with them and we need to take some design elements from 227 00:13:45.220 --> 00:13:48.139 what's happening right now and what they're experiencing in the things that are important to 228 00:13:48.179 --> 00:13:50.059 them. And in that moment it was almost like it was a relief, 229 00:13:50.139 --> 00:13:54.700 because I think the agency that we were working with, they also work feeling 230 00:13:54.700 --> 00:13:56.250 kind of frustrated in the way that our brand in design had been and the 231 00:13:56.330 --> 00:14:00.970 communication was what was lacking back and forth. But then being able to build 232 00:14:00.970 --> 00:14:03.730 those relationships, I go back that so many times, and being able to 233 00:14:03.769 --> 00:14:05.529 communicate clearly on what the needs are and then, I think in that moment, 234 00:14:05.610 --> 00:14:09.399 even giving some visual examples of what we were trying to envision really change 235 00:14:09.519 --> 00:14:13.159 things around and we were able to get a whole new brand and fill look 236 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:16.879 for the institution and it made us really get to a different place. And 237 00:14:16.919 --> 00:14:20.200 then, as that kind of progressed over time, we ended up, as 238 00:14:20.200 --> 00:14:22.559 an institution, determining that was best for us to have an internal marketing department 239 00:14:22.919 --> 00:14:26.029 and in my role I got to be very close and work with the vice 240 00:14:26.070 --> 00:14:30.590 president from marketing there and we had those type of same conversations on a regular 241 00:14:30.629 --> 00:14:31.789 basis. So that would be one of those times where, you know, 242 00:14:31.950 --> 00:14:35.509 I was kind of next to the main marketing team, not directly, you 243 00:14:35.590 --> 00:14:39.620 know, in charge of a marketing team. But the important part in all 244 00:14:39.620 --> 00:14:41.379 of it was a communication. An important part in all of it was really 245 00:14:41.820 --> 00:14:45.700 making sure that we were, you know, working towards the same goals and 246 00:14:45.820 --> 00:14:48.139 that we were able to open up our minds of communication in the way that 247 00:14:48.220 --> 00:14:52.210 we were very productive and the things that we're making as a the outcomes of 248 00:14:52.289 --> 00:14:56.769 the work that we're working on. Thank you for sharing that story, JP 249 00:14:56.970 --> 00:15:01.210 and I think that's a story that a lot of higher ed marketers probably have 250 00:15:01.490 --> 00:15:07.090 some commonalities with, since we know that Higher Ed Marketing it's known for beings 251 00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:11.919 being slower to innovation, and one of the reasons that attracted us to you 252 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:16.679 and wanted to have you on the podcast is around your data background. So 253 00:15:16.879 --> 00:15:20.000 we'd like to get back to your roots and ask you how do you see 254 00:15:20.600 --> 00:15:26.389 data impacting marketing and enrollment going forward? Yeah, so that's a really great 255 00:15:26.389 --> 00:15:28.190 question. And now, and I think the data is really one of the 256 00:15:28.350 --> 00:15:31.509 more important aspects of marketing. You know, if you don't have any way 257 00:15:31.509 --> 00:15:35.500 to assess what you're doing, it's not really helping you in any way of 258 00:15:35.620 --> 00:15:39.700 being able to improve the work from where you're at to where you want to 259 00:15:39.779 --> 00:15:43.500 go. And so, you know, we talked about data and almost everything 260 00:15:43.500 --> 00:15:46.100 that we do and in enrollment management, the reality is everything we do is 261 00:15:46.139 --> 00:15:50.450 based on data, even if it's just that basic funnel data. But if 262 00:15:50.490 --> 00:15:54.049 you want to really expound upon that, it gives you an opportunity to be 263 00:15:54.090 --> 00:15:56.129 much more efficient in the way that you communicate with others. And when you 264 00:15:56.169 --> 00:16:00.330 think about it in terms of marketing, there are so many different data points 265 00:16:00.330 --> 00:16:03.490 that can help you to be more successful in the type of marketing you know, 266 00:16:03.610 --> 00:16:06.879 plans that you create and the way that you actually utilize the different types 267 00:16:06.919 --> 00:16:11.279 of ways to communicate with outside audiences, and so whether that's understanding how your 268 00:16:11.320 --> 00:16:14.840 social media is connecting with the audiences out there, what things seem to be 269 00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:18.480 working, what things are not working in terms of looking at the relevant data 270 00:16:18.519 --> 00:16:22.230 to it, or whether you're looking at other things like finding a way to 271 00:16:22.350 --> 00:16:26.629 communicate your scholarships, there's data that can help support that and one thing, 272 00:16:26.830 --> 00:16:30.669 you know, I'd like to share with you as a good example of utilizing 273 00:16:30.710 --> 00:16:33.980 data kind of ties some of the enrollment management theory into the marketing. And 274 00:16:34.460 --> 00:16:38.460 when I first came to Capital University, we recognize that one of our points 275 00:16:38.539 --> 00:16:45.100 of challenge in our recruitment, in our enrollment funnel was attracting the student body 276 00:16:45.220 --> 00:16:48.730 or the people that we wanted to come to campus that weren't Pale eligible. 277 00:16:48.049 --> 00:16:52.730 You know, that they were at a point where they didn't receive any additional 278 00:16:52.970 --> 00:16:56.009 resources from the federal government or the state and they also weren't at a point 279 00:16:56.009 --> 00:16:59.330 where they were wealthy enough that they could just write a check to come to 280 00:16:59.409 --> 00:17:02.799 college. And so as we're looking at our scholarshipping in our models, we 281 00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:06.640 were saying, what's the best way for us to really support this group and 282 00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:11.680 the data actually made us kind of really recognize which proportion of our audience we 283 00:17:11.799 --> 00:17:15.869 needed to connect with and in looking at that data we thought it about what 284 00:17:15.029 --> 00:17:18.829 do we do well at capital that would also be able to help them under 285 00:17:18.990 --> 00:17:22.950 stand that there are scholarships available to them that work with them. We came 286 00:17:23.150 --> 00:17:26.630 up with this great concept. It was called the good guarantee, and the 287 00:17:26.710 --> 00:17:33.460 good guarantee is essentially if a student whose parent works in a nonprofit or a 288 00:17:33.579 --> 00:17:37.779 public service type of a role chooses to come to capital university, they will 289 00:17:37.819 --> 00:17:41.339 never pay more than fifty percent in tuition, which is a pretty simple message. 290 00:17:41.819 --> 00:17:44.369 But it was data informed. It was built out of our own data 291 00:17:44.730 --> 00:17:47.490 and then, as we started thinking about that, we took it another step. 292 00:17:47.529 --> 00:17:49.329 It wasn't just about a scholarship, but the reason we called it a 293 00:17:49.450 --> 00:17:55.170 good guarantee is because it was about the institution and our old history in our 294 00:17:55.170 --> 00:17:57.640 mission has always been about preparing people to help them to go out into the 295 00:17:57.680 --> 00:18:02.039 world and to get a better place, and if you look at some of 296 00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:06.319 our earliest mission statements there are references to this idea of for the greater good 297 00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:11.079 and helping people to prepare for the betterment of society, and this greater good 298 00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:14.509 concept really came together for us. And so when we actually put this all 299 00:18:14.549 --> 00:18:18.390 together from a marketing perspective, really what we talked about was a mission identity 300 00:18:18.509 --> 00:18:22.150 thing, even though it was an intentionally built out of a data informed decision, 301 00:18:22.670 --> 00:18:26.309 and it really resonated with that audience. We had students that came to 302 00:18:26.430 --> 00:18:29.740 us that next year specifically in that area, where we hadn't had them come 303 00:18:29.779 --> 00:18:32.059 in the past. They hadn't yielded in the past at the same level, 304 00:18:32.420 --> 00:18:34.539 and I think a lot of that came from the very fact that that wasn't 305 00:18:34.539 --> 00:18:37.740 just a scholarship, but it was a scholarship, and even that was a 306 00:18:38.220 --> 00:18:41.410 scholarship that was very helpful to them. It helped them understand the value of 307 00:18:41.450 --> 00:18:45.089 the institution and who we are and it was very mission oriented and that was 308 00:18:45.130 --> 00:18:49.089 all tied together in some really good marketing elements that we put together and being 309 00:18:49.130 --> 00:18:52.690 able to express what the good guarantee was all about and having that clear marketing 310 00:18:52.730 --> 00:18:57.240 message tied to something that was data informed. I think is a great example 311 00:18:57.519 --> 00:19:02.240 of where, you know, marketing can really be lifted when you're thinking about 312 00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:04.440 things from a data perspective. So I'd say that's one example of it. 313 00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:08.519 Another example of it is really making sure that your systems are working in a 314 00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:11.789 way that you can actually leverage them to communicate and to be better. I 315 00:19:11.910 --> 00:19:15.029 know that you every person, you've probably talked to him these podcasts. There's 316 00:19:15.069 --> 00:19:18.029 some level where it gets to a point of talking about the crm right and 317 00:19:18.349 --> 00:19:22.150 how are you having that relationship management system? It's helping people to connect and 318 00:19:22.230 --> 00:19:25.539 to be able to, you know, work through the process of getting to 319 00:19:25.579 --> 00:19:29.180 know a university. And the reality is, if you really build your CR 320 00:19:29.259 --> 00:19:33.779 in the right way, then it really does provide so many additional advantages to 321 00:19:33.819 --> 00:19:37.180 being able to craft and create the right messages and, again, to know 322 00:19:37.299 --> 00:19:41.490 who's listening, who's responding, who's looking at them, and get them engaged 323 00:19:41.529 --> 00:19:44.809 again. And I think you know that's really the points where data really can 324 00:19:44.849 --> 00:19:48.369 be very consistent. And so knowing how to do that, choosing a system 325 00:19:48.410 --> 00:19:51.089 that's the right type of system, setting it up in a way that you 326 00:19:51.130 --> 00:19:55.599 can extract that data and then using that data to develop the messages moving forward 327 00:19:56.039 --> 00:19:59.200 really or very powerful ways to connect with your audience and to really make a 328 00:19:59.240 --> 00:20:03.319 marketing team go from, you know, a functional team to a highly functional 329 00:20:03.359 --> 00:20:06.319 team right and changing it to another level. And then, if you're working 330 00:20:06.319 --> 00:20:08.589 with outside partners and vendors, you can actually talk to them about what your 331 00:20:08.630 --> 00:20:11.029 needs are and what your gaps are. So you're not just going out there 332 00:20:11.069 --> 00:20:14.750 and saying we have a problem fixed our marketing, but you actually can go 333 00:20:14.829 --> 00:20:18.029 and talk about here's what we're challenged in the marketing here's the areas that we 334 00:20:18.109 --> 00:20:19.670 need to have a little more help and strength. Can you help us to 335 00:20:19.710 --> 00:20:22.180 figure out why we can't get our social media where we need to go, 336 00:20:22.259 --> 00:20:26.299 for example, or can you help us in some other former manner and making 337 00:20:26.339 --> 00:20:30.140 sure that this particular message that we've been developing has more interest and people look 338 00:20:30.180 --> 00:20:33.339 at it and really connect it back to the institution? So I know, 339 00:20:33.619 --> 00:20:36.769 when I think about the date of thing, I think it's so important and 340 00:20:37.130 --> 00:20:38.289 there's so many different ways. I could tell other stories about it, but 341 00:20:38.569 --> 00:20:42.210 I think those are some good examples of really sharing how data really can help 342 00:20:42.410 --> 00:20:47.490 lift and help support a person that's really trying to make sure their marketing messages 343 00:20:47.569 --> 00:20:48.809 resume. And it does tie back to the very beginning story. I mean 344 00:20:48.849 --> 00:20:52.920 the reality, I got down this path because looking at those data points and 345 00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:56.119 I didn't know how we're communicating and when I was looking at and back then, 346 00:20:56.200 --> 00:20:57.960 what I didn't really share earlier in the podcast is that the open rate 347 00:20:59.079 --> 00:21:02.000 on it was so businally low on the way that we're communicating the students at 348 00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:03.430 that time frame. But that's why I felt like we had to change the 349 00:21:03.470 --> 00:21:07.109 messages to get them even interested to coming to orientation. So there's a connection 350 00:21:07.150 --> 00:21:11.230 in my entire career that comes around this data question, for sure. Well, 351 00:21:11.630 --> 00:21:15.509 I certainly could talk about urns and data all the time and you never 352 00:21:15.630 --> 00:21:19.700 have to apologize for speaking about it. Yes, we talked about crns and 353 00:21:19.740 --> 00:21:23.339 we talk about data with other guests, but the way you articulated it, 354 00:21:23.500 --> 00:21:30.420 with the passion and the expertise, that was a wonderful story and that's probably 355 00:21:30.539 --> 00:21:34.369 reason why you've been so successful in your career. Also wanted to touch on 356 00:21:34.529 --> 00:21:41.730 the good guarantee. I think that was an exemplary example of how you position 357 00:21:42.049 --> 00:21:48.720 data and position things that were at capital university and put a great spin on 358 00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:53.079 it and went to the community with it with much success. I think this 359 00:21:53.359 --> 00:21:59.000 next question, which I usually end with, is probably selfish caause you gave 360 00:21:59.079 --> 00:22:03.029 me two great examples. But we always like to end by asking if there 361 00:22:03.230 --> 00:22:07.789 is one thought, one specific thing that you could leave before we close that 362 00:22:07.029 --> 00:22:11.950 other marketers can take right away, either an idea or an insight, something 363 00:22:12.069 --> 00:22:17.140 that's applicable. Yeah, what would that be? So that's a great question 364 00:22:17.339 --> 00:22:21.140 and I think the very first part of this he always have to be looking 365 00:22:21.140 --> 00:22:26.259 at at what's happening and how people are consuming information and really try to be 366 00:22:26.420 --> 00:22:27.900 cutting edge. I mean you have to take risks, we have to try 367 00:22:27.940 --> 00:22:30.250 a few things sometimes and not all of them are going to work. But 368 00:22:30.410 --> 00:22:34.890 one example I'd give that we've done in recent past to capital university is we 369 00:22:36.009 --> 00:22:38.170 developed a cap chat podcast. So not on like what you're doing right here 370 00:22:38.289 --> 00:22:42.210 right. I mean you're connecting with your audience through this medium of podcasts, 371 00:22:42.329 --> 00:22:45.599 and we did the same thing. It was called the cap chat podcast and 372 00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:49.119 the design of it and intent of it was really to help with both the 373 00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:55.039 student and the parents in that yielding processes they're making that final decision to come 374 00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:57.400 to campus and really opening up the campus in a way where they could have 375 00:22:57.589 --> 00:23:02.910 more experiences through the storytelling of our current students of our faculty, Our staff 376 00:23:02.950 --> 00:23:06.990 are coaches and athletics, and so we created a two series, a two 377 00:23:07.069 --> 00:23:10.670 season series of podcasts. In the first season we kind of hit up some 378 00:23:10.710 --> 00:23:14.059 of the initial things that you normally would expect to hit from an enrollment management 379 00:23:14.059 --> 00:23:18.099 we talked about financial aid and understanding financial aid better. We talked about athletics 380 00:23:18.140 --> 00:23:19.819 and what it's like to be a d three athlete because we're dthree campus. 381 00:23:21.180 --> 00:23:23.539 We talked about some other really good topics or pertinent to our audience, but 382 00:23:23.779 --> 00:23:27.369 really helping him see that next layer and really connect with people that are living 383 00:23:27.410 --> 00:23:30.569 that with us. And then when we went from there into the next season, 384 00:23:30.609 --> 00:23:33.529 we started realizing all the other types of things that we could really help 385 00:23:33.569 --> 00:23:37.289 to connect the community that were sometimes hard to get out in short messages, 386 00:23:37.369 --> 00:23:41.039 right and emails and other things that we were utilizing to connect with our audiences. 387 00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:45.279 It's not the same medium and so you know, I think in using 388 00:23:45.319 --> 00:23:49.039 that cap chat podcast it allowed for our institution to connect with a different way 389 00:23:49.119 --> 00:23:52.559 with our audience and it did help us. I think at the end of 390 00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:55.519 the day, the day to reflects that we had good conversion Yo grads of 391 00:23:55.599 --> 00:23:57.910 that came out of those two years of building that we've continued to see improvement 392 00:23:57.950 --> 00:24:02.029 in that particular air of an our enrollment funnel. I don't think it's the 393 00:24:02.109 --> 00:24:03.789 sole thing that's helped us get there, but I do think that it definitely 394 00:24:03.829 --> 00:24:07.670 was one factor that was a driving variable or driving force that helped us to 395 00:24:07.710 --> 00:24:11.099 get there. So, you know, I would say take risks, be 396 00:24:11.220 --> 00:24:14.099 innovative, think about what's happening in the world, pay attention. The example 397 00:24:14.180 --> 00:24:15.339 that I gave right now is, you know, if you can get the 398 00:24:15.380 --> 00:24:18.619 right group of people together and do something like a podcast, it gives a 399 00:24:18.700 --> 00:24:22.700 whole different Lens and Larry a way for you to tell your story, and 400 00:24:22.819 --> 00:24:26.849 so that's one that I share with you for today. Thank you, dynamic 401 00:24:26.930 --> 00:24:30.809 response. TP. If someone wanted to reach you, how would they best 402 00:24:30.890 --> 00:24:33.329 do that? Sure the easiest way to reach me is we just connect to 403 00:24:33.450 --> 00:24:40.839 me through my capital communication channels, my emails, JP SPAGNOLO at capital Edu. 404 00:24:41.559 --> 00:24:42.960 That's probably the easiest way to reach me. You could go to the 405 00:24:44.039 --> 00:24:47.880 website and search me within the directory. I'd be right there and you know, 406 00:24:47.920 --> 00:24:49.680 I welcome it. You know, I do believe that that's the seven 407 00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:52.710 a few times thround. It relationship building makes us successful. So if there's 408 00:24:52.710 --> 00:24:56.829 anybody out there listening that would feel like it would be beneficial to have a 409 00:24:56.869 --> 00:25:00.710 conversation about anything we talked about today, you know I'm open and I'd love 410 00:25:00.750 --> 00:25:02.869 to be, you know, able to build that network with you. So 411 00:25:03.470 --> 00:25:06.470 thanks for asking about that for sure. Well again. Thank you, JP 412 00:25:07.220 --> 00:25:11.299 and for everyone else. That ends another higher end marketing podcast which is sponsored 413 00:25:11.339 --> 00:25:18.539 by Kabo Solutions and Education Marketing Brandy Agency and by think patent did a marketing 414 00:25:18.660 --> 00:25:22.250 execution, printing and mailing provider of highate solutions. On behalf of my cohost 415 00:25:22.289 --> 00:25:29.130 Bart Taylor, I'm Troye singer. Thank you for joining us. You've been 416 00:25:29.170 --> 00:25:33.250 listening to the Higher Ed Marketer. To ensure that you never miss an episode, 417 00:25:33.529 --> 00:25:37.720 subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you're listening with 418 00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:41.160 apple PODCASTS, we'd love for you to leave a quick rating of the show. 419 00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:45.039 Simply tap the number of stars you think the podcast deserves. Until next 420 00:25:45.079 --> time,