Welcome to our new website!
June 1, 2021

Why You Should Be Outcome-Oriented in Community College Marketing

Why You Should Be Outcome-Oriented in Community College Marketing

Marketing for community colleges has long focused on affordability and transferability.

But in this episode, Jeffrey Fanter, VP Marketing & Communications at Ivy Tech Community College, explains why community colleges should establish that they are not just launching pads for an education, but also launching pads for a career as well.

What we talked about:

- How community colleges are adapting to changing times

- Showing outcomes and impact in community college marketing

- Focusing less on competition in higher education

- Seeing prospective students and families as customers

Know of a higher education marketing change agent you’d like to hear on the show? Does your university have an interesting story to be featured?

Connect with Bart Caylor or Troy Singer. If you’re not on LinkedIn, check out Caylor Solutions or Think Patented.

To hear more interviews like this one, subscribe to The Higher Ed Marketer on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your preferred podcast platform.
 

The Higher Ed Marketer podcast is sponsored by Caylor Solutions, an Education Marketing and Branding Agency, and by Think Patented, a Marketing Execution, Printing and Mailing provider of Higher Ed solutions.

    

 

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.520 --> 00:00:06.799 You are listening to the Higher Ed Marketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals 2 00:00:06.839 --> 00:00:11.509 in higher education. This show will tackle all sorts of questions related to student 3 00:00:11.550 --> 00:00:15.869 recruitment, don't have relations marketing trends, new technologies and so much more. 4 00:00:16.629 --> 00:00:20.429 If you are looking for conversations centered around where the industry is going, this 5 00:00:20.629 --> 00:00:30.300 podcast is for you. Let's get into the show. Welcome to the Higher 6 00:00:30.300 --> 00:00:34.979 Ed Marketer podcast. I'm choice singer here with our cohost Bart Taylor, and 7 00:00:35.219 --> 00:00:40.009 Barts a secret that might not be a secret by the time this podcast is 8 00:00:40.210 --> 00:00:45.090 released, that we're working on a Webinar that we are very excited about putting 9 00:00:45.090 --> 00:00:48.609 on the finishing touches that is going to have a lot of useful information for 10 00:00:48.649 --> 00:00:53.799 Higher Ed marketers. Would love to hear your perspective and what you're excited most 11 00:00:53.840 --> 00:00:57.799 about it. Yeah, this Webinar and, like you said, it's it's 12 00:00:57.840 --> 00:01:02.000 probably out there for everybody who hasn't didn't have a chance to tend can download 13 00:01:02.000 --> 00:01:04.750 it. But we really are looking forward to talking about managing the tools and 14 00:01:04.790 --> 00:01:08.709 the strategies for High Ed success. So you know, your background is print. 15 00:01:08.870 --> 00:01:11.750 You know, I think patent it does a lot of a marketing execution 16 00:01:11.870 --> 00:01:15.989 through print. I do a lot in print and digital, and what we're 17 00:01:15.989 --> 00:01:18.620 going to do is we're going to talk about how to combine those two to 18 00:01:18.739 --> 00:01:23.939 really make successful direct mail campaigns, whether those are direct mail in a search 19 00:01:23.019 --> 00:01:29.700 campaign, whether it's as part of your comflow, different ways of yet leveraging 20 00:01:29.980 --> 00:01:34.329 the direct mail campaigns to do that through personalization, through print on demand, 21 00:01:34.489 --> 00:01:37.810 through, you know, informed delivery and a lot of mail. Three hundred 22 00:01:37.810 --> 00:01:42.769 and sixty types of things that you can do around the mailing that quite frankly, 23 00:01:42.810 --> 00:01:45.689 up until troy and I got to work together in the last year or 24 00:01:45.769 --> 00:01:49.359 so, I was unfamiliar with that and it's there's a lot of advancements in 25 00:01:49.799 --> 00:01:53.200 in the mailing system and direct mail that are pretty powerful that you can combine 26 00:01:53.239 --> 00:01:57.200 with digital. So really excited about that. Thank you, Bart in. 27 00:01:57.280 --> 00:02:00.829 Yes, and for the record, Bart and I are working on a couple 28 00:02:00.909 --> 00:02:06.989 of projects for customers and that's the reason why we're able to bring this Webinar 29 00:02:07.150 --> 00:02:10.189 to let people know if the successes were having with our current customers and to 30 00:02:10.270 --> 00:02:16.060 see if anyone else would like to benefit from that success. But today really 31 00:02:16.139 --> 00:02:23.020 want to talk about our guests, which is Jeff Banter and he's with Ivy 32 00:02:23.099 --> 00:02:27.460 Tech Community College and Bart you have a history with jets, so you know 33 00:02:27.539 --> 00:02:30.050 him pretty well. Yeah, Jeff and I did some work together several years 34 00:02:30.090 --> 00:02:35.210 ago and I got to know Jeff Pretty well through that. He's a great 35 00:02:35.210 --> 00:02:39.650 guy. He came to ivy tech from a from a background in college athletics 36 00:02:40.289 --> 00:02:45.199 and he's a he's a brilliant marketer. Really does a lot of really good 37 00:02:45.240 --> 00:02:49.919 things for for Ivy Tech. Has really kind of taken them to kind of 38 00:02:49.960 --> 00:02:53.000 a sleepy community, from a sleepy community college, to one of the know 39 00:02:53.159 --> 00:02:58.159 most impactful institutions here in the state of Indiana, and so really am excited 40 00:02:58.199 --> 00:03:00.110 about this conversation we're going to have with in the day. I think he 41 00:03:00.110 --> 00:03:02.310 has a lot of really good information and a lot of really good information for 42 00:03:02.310 --> 00:03:07.189 high end marketers in general, not just specific to community colleges. But I 43 00:03:07.229 --> 00:03:09.550 think he has a lot of really good wisdom to bring to the table. 44 00:03:10.189 --> 00:03:19.020 Let's bring Jeff into the conversation. I'm excited welcome Jeffrey Fanter, Vice President 45 00:03:19.180 --> 00:03:23.740 for Marketing in communications at IB Tech Community College, to the show. Welcome 46 00:03:23.780 --> 00:03:27.449 Jeffreys. You to be here. Thank you for the opportunity. It's our 47 00:03:27.530 --> 00:03:30.370 pleasure to have you. If you would tell everyone about your role at I 48 00:03:30.449 --> 00:03:35.849 be tech. Sure I have the pleasure and have had the pleasure for the 49 00:03:35.889 --> 00:03:40.090 last seventeen plus years of serving as a vice president for marketing communications at Ivy 50 00:03:40.129 --> 00:03:45.639 Tech Community College. Sometimes I let her own fact about Ivy Tech Community College 51 00:03:45.639 --> 00:03:51.159 where their largest singly accredited statewide community college system in the country and the largest 52 00:03:51.240 --> 00:03:53.879 post secondary institution of our education in the state of Indiana. And so just 53 00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:58.389 been throughout to be in this role at every Tech Community College. That's great. 54 00:03:58.430 --> 00:04:01.430 Thanks, Jeff. I appreciate that kind of giving us that that rundown. 55 00:04:02.069 --> 00:04:05.270 You know, being here in Indiana, I'm really familiar with Ivy Tech 56 00:04:05.349 --> 00:04:09.349 and I know that you know just in full transparency for everyone. You and 57 00:04:09.389 --> 00:04:14.020 I have done some work before in the past and so but I also just 58 00:04:14.419 --> 00:04:17.139 you know, even growing up here, I know just the significance that ivy 59 00:04:17.180 --> 00:04:23.620 tech has had historically in the state of Indiana and you know it's traditionally you've 60 00:04:23.620 --> 00:04:28.529 established kind of that transfer, an affordability alternative, which isn't necessarily a bad 61 00:04:28.569 --> 00:04:30.290 thing in this day and age. But could you share some of the changes 62 00:04:30.370 --> 00:04:34.290 that advancements of how community college is, like Ivy Tech, are changing and 63 00:04:34.410 --> 00:04:38.449 the way that you are adapting to that. I mean a lot has changed 64 00:04:38.490 --> 00:04:41.120 in higher end in the last several years and thank you. Guys have done 65 00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:46.079 a good job of adapting to impact the students. Certainly, I think one 66 00:04:46.079 --> 00:04:49.040 of the ways, and you touched on the affordabilion and transferability, and certainly 67 00:04:49.079 --> 00:04:53.870 I think the folks has been to establish that and I think we've done a 68 00:04:53.870 --> 00:04:57.790 pretty good job at every tack. And the affordability is that access point for 69 00:04:57.910 --> 00:05:01.350 people to know they can afford to get into higher education and then that transferability 70 00:05:01.389 --> 00:05:04.589 is to move on to a four year institution. But I think what community 71 00:05:04.629 --> 00:05:08.740 college, and especially here in Indiana, have done exceptionally. Why, with 72 00:05:08.819 --> 00:05:14.620 every Tech Community College is established the fact that this is not necessarily just your 73 00:05:14.660 --> 00:05:19.060 launching off place for a four year degree. This this is a launching pad 74 00:05:19.220 --> 00:05:23.970 for a career, and I think that's a little known fact, or is 75 00:05:24.009 --> 00:05:28.490 becoming more of a known fact. But with Community College, people didn't always 76 00:05:28.490 --> 00:05:30.810 see them as the place where I can go to get a great career right 77 00:05:30.850 --> 00:05:34.370 when I leave community college. It's a launching up. Maybe it's a start 78 00:05:34.410 --> 00:05:38.319 of a job, and I really do believe there's difference between a job in 79 00:05:38.439 --> 00:05:43.319 a career. I firmly believe community college have now established themselves as a place 80 00:05:43.399 --> 00:05:46.800 to launch to a career and I think that's something that's the emerge, that 81 00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:49.230 would say over the last us, maybe five to seven years. It certainly 82 00:05:49.269 --> 00:05:56.430 there's more attension nationally and community colleges with respect to this concept of potens who 83 00:05:56.430 --> 00:06:00.230 could they be free across the country to create like a kid of fourteen tight 84 00:06:00.350 --> 00:06:04.420 model, and part of that is because people are knowing and embracing accepting the 85 00:06:04.500 --> 00:06:12.860 fact that community college is trained people to go into a career and sometimes people 86 00:06:12.860 --> 00:06:16.860 associated those careers maybe with some of the trade vocational things, but you know, 87 00:06:16.980 --> 00:06:20.930 we trained more nurses than anybody in the state of Indiana and sometimes people 88 00:06:20.930 --> 00:06:26.569 don't associate community college with that. I think folks are starting to understand more 89 00:06:26.970 --> 00:06:30.290 this is a launching off place point for a career and I think that's what's 90 00:06:30.329 --> 00:06:34.000 different about community college is bar probably in the last five to seven years, 91 00:06:34.120 --> 00:06:38.360 especially here in Indiana. I think it may be different other parts of the 92 00:06:38.399 --> 00:06:43.040 country, but here in Indiana because of the way higher education is kind of 93 00:06:43.079 --> 00:06:46.800 grown up with these regional campus that I you and produe had and in the 94 00:06:46.879 --> 00:06:49.709 role I be tact played more is that trade vocational school. I think it's 95 00:06:49.750 --> 00:06:53.790 changed over the years and I you know, it's been a pleasure to be 96 00:06:53.829 --> 00:06:58.149 a part of that and see people understand that better about ivy tech and the 97 00:06:58.189 --> 00:07:01.660 Roller Community College Boys. Yeah, Great. Out of curiosity, how would 98 00:07:01.660 --> 00:07:05.180 you define the difference between a job and a career? I think a job 99 00:07:05.579 --> 00:07:10.819 is, you know, I think about my own situation with my family. 100 00:07:10.980 --> 00:07:14.100 So I have a I have a nineteen year old daughter and a job for 101 00:07:14.220 --> 00:07:16.290 her as a job that she went to today where she went to a boutique, 102 00:07:16.370 --> 00:07:19.930 she worked in the store, she got paid the ways that she got 103 00:07:19.970 --> 00:07:24.410 paid, but it's not where she's going to be after she graduates from college. 104 00:07:24.410 --> 00:07:26.649 It's a job. It's a place too, frankly, for her. 105 00:07:26.810 --> 00:07:30.120 She's making some extra earnings for the summer. For other people, you know, 106 00:07:30.199 --> 00:07:32.879 a job may potentially be that earnings to frankly, put food on the 107 00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:39.120 table, which is an important thing, but really to then take your family 108 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:45.790 to another level or take your experience as someone who is the bread winner and 109 00:07:45.829 --> 00:07:47.709 your family or the leader of a friendly to another experience. That's a career 110 00:07:47.949 --> 00:07:51.990 to me and I think a career is when you can start to support your 111 00:07:53.029 --> 00:07:57.310 family, supports yourself, support other endeavors that you want to do with in 112 00:07:57.430 --> 00:08:00.300 your life. A career gives you the means to do that. Well, 113 00:08:00.339 --> 00:08:03.459 a job probably gives you an instant satisfaction what you need right at that moment, 114 00:08:05.180 --> 00:08:07.459 and I think that's what's difference between a job and a career and a 115 00:08:07.500 --> 00:08:09.620 job often, I think if you ask that people, they would talk about 116 00:08:09.660 --> 00:08:15.370 how they you change jobs multiple time. To Look, I've had jobs. 117 00:08:15.410 --> 00:08:16.850 I worked at Burger King, I worked at a shoe store. Those are 118 00:08:16.889 --> 00:08:22.089 jobs that not that they're bad places. The work, the great places work 119 00:08:22.129 --> 00:08:24.329 and there are a career passed with those. But when you ask me when 120 00:08:24.370 --> 00:08:28.199 my career is, I've had to career pass my life, one in college 121 00:08:28.240 --> 00:08:31.600 athletics and now on higher education. Those are different than my jobs that I 122 00:08:31.679 --> 00:08:35.759 had when I first came out of when I was in high school, first 123 00:08:35.759 --> 00:08:37.120 come out of high school, where those weren't the path I was going to 124 00:08:37.159 --> 00:08:41.039 be on forever. Okay, not that they weren't bad jobs, but I 125 00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:43.590 what my path was not to, you know, manage and run a burgher 126 00:08:43.590 --> 00:08:46.629 king and manage and run, at that time, Kenney shoes. My career, 127 00:08:46.830 --> 00:08:50.789 though, is where I am. Why isn't in in Conns athletics and 128 00:08:50.909 --> 00:08:54.029 now I'm in higher education? Yeah, that's great. I appreciate you kind 129 00:08:54.029 --> 00:08:58.019 of clarifying that and so many I hear it so much in different angles of 130 00:08:58.139 --> 00:09:01.820 color of higher education, you know, whether it's through the Community College Lens 131 00:09:01.860 --> 00:09:05.820 of Career Ready, and you know there's a lot of a lot of talk 132 00:09:05.899 --> 00:09:09.690 around career ready, around open skills and being able to transfer those credentialing, 133 00:09:09.769 --> 00:09:13.210 those types of things that we do some work with Western governor's university and we're 134 00:09:13.210 --> 00:09:16.570 learning a lot about some of the things that they're leading in that. But 135 00:09:16.970 --> 00:09:22.289 I think it's so important because there is this this idea, I think you 136 00:09:22.370 --> 00:09:24.639 know good, bad or ill, the idea that there's a certain path to 137 00:09:24.679 --> 00:09:28.440 a certain life. But I think that you're trying, you're making the point 138 00:09:28.519 --> 00:09:35.000 that community college is at least with Ivytech, those those paths to careers go 139 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:37.080 different ways. They can neither go through the traditional four year that that people 140 00:09:37.279 --> 00:09:41.870 often do. They can also go through community college and they can do a 141 00:09:41.990 --> 00:09:45.429 combination of both. There's just a lot of ways to careers and I think 142 00:09:45.429 --> 00:09:48.429 that's refreshing to see that that come about. So, as as we kind 143 00:09:48.429 --> 00:09:54.539 of think about that and how the impact community colleges are having, let's kind 144 00:09:54.539 --> 00:09:58.539 of shift a little bit and talk about how to market that impact. I 145 00:09:58.620 --> 00:10:01.179 mean, and I think I just kind of illustrate a little bit, there's 146 00:10:01.179 --> 00:10:05.860 a there's somewhat of a perception out there that that sometimes community colleges have to 147 00:10:05.899 --> 00:10:09.370 overcome. You've mentioned a little bit yourself. Tell us a little bit about 148 00:10:09.370 --> 00:10:13.370 how and different ways that you're marketing ivy tech for that change and and to 149 00:10:13.529 --> 00:10:20.769 help persuade those people who might not want understand higher education and to understand that 150 00:10:20.250 --> 00:10:24.759 it's a path to a career. Well, one of the keys that bark 151 00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:28.200 for us in the steps that we took to the decision that we've made and 152 00:10:28.279 --> 00:10:31.960 what we're calling a brand evolution with respect to every tech community colleges, we 153 00:10:31.039 --> 00:10:37.070 did some research to try to figure out what our external audiences think about community 154 00:10:37.149 --> 00:10:41.870 college. What you said is correct. You know, community colleges across the 155 00:10:41.950 --> 00:10:46.389 country there is there is an element of perception challenge, perception issue. I 156 00:10:46.549 --> 00:10:50.860 call it a perception misunderstanding, but you need to then find out. So 157 00:10:50.019 --> 00:10:54.379 what is that perception and misunderstanding? And we found out from our external audience 158 00:10:54.580 --> 00:11:00.980 is really what the in it's it's a misunderstanding, slash lack of knowledge. 159 00:11:01.340 --> 00:11:05.690 They just don't understand what it is that an ivy tech credential can get them. 160 00:11:05.330 --> 00:11:09.409 They understand it's fordable, they understand credits transfer, but they don't understand 161 00:11:09.570 --> 00:11:13.889 what is the value in an ivy tech credential. I say this. So 162 00:11:13.049 --> 00:11:16.250 what question? So what does that detect give me? What does that I 163 00:11:16.370 --> 00:11:22.039 detect credential given? We learned in speaking to our exturnatis is that's the question 164 00:11:22.080 --> 00:11:26.799 they want answered and they don't want to to stay answered with kind of the 165 00:11:26.840 --> 00:11:30.799 Marketing Speaker, the marketing word of it gets you a high wage career, 166 00:11:30.919 --> 00:11:33.750 it gets you a high value job, which are those are the terms we 167 00:11:33.830 --> 00:11:37.149 used today and some of our marketing. They need data and support behind that. 168 00:11:37.470 --> 00:11:41.870 They need to they need proof, they need to see what are those 169 00:11:41.909 --> 00:11:45.750 highways jobs, what are those careers and and show me how much money you're 170 00:11:45.789 --> 00:11:48.779 going to make. So it's very outcomes drive and that's what we found out. 171 00:11:48.860 --> 00:11:54.139 So what we're trying to shift to is informing people this is what an 172 00:11:54.179 --> 00:11:58.259 IV tech degree gets you, based on the amount of money our graduates make, 173 00:11:58.580 --> 00:12:03.250 based on the types of jobs. Ever, graduates have not just potentially 174 00:12:03.370 --> 00:12:07.049 what that type of job can get you, but what somebody who went to 175 00:12:07.169 --> 00:12:09.889 ivy tech that has that type of job gets paid, and I think that's 176 00:12:11.049 --> 00:12:15.049 extremely important because, look, we're in a market where other schools do the 177 00:12:15.090 --> 00:12:18.840 same thing. Our graduates at university x make this much money, they get 178 00:12:18.879 --> 00:12:22.399 this type of signing bonus. This is their media income and that's what they 179 00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:26.679 hear and that's what people digest in here. So we need to then jump 180 00:12:26.759 --> 00:12:30.070 into that market and say, well, this is when an ivy tech one 181 00:12:30.110 --> 00:12:33.509 gets you, and I I'm confident that people are going to be shocked when 182 00:12:33.549 --> 00:12:37.230 they see how much money some of our graduates that left attack within their first 183 00:12:37.269 --> 00:12:41.389 year make, not just not be type of community colleges in general. I 184 00:12:41.470 --> 00:12:43.340 think they're going to be shocked by that. And then, on top of 185 00:12:43.500 --> 00:12:48.539 that, secondary to that, messages all, by the way, it's affordable. 186 00:12:48.940 --> 00:12:52.620 It's more affordable amount of their options that are out there. And to 187 00:12:52.700 --> 00:12:56.620 your point about some careers do require a four year degree. Our credits will 188 00:12:56.659 --> 00:13:01.210 transfer on if, at a later day, you need to go pursue further 189 00:13:01.450 --> 00:13:05.169 education. was certainly is valuable for all of us to do, and our 190 00:13:05.289 --> 00:13:09.129 credits are going to continue you on the path that you don't need to restart. 191 00:13:09.730 --> 00:13:11.250 You know, in nursing and nursing to great example, you may you 192 00:13:11.330 --> 00:13:13.559 may start at one level as a nurse, but then you need to go 193 00:13:13.679 --> 00:13:16.960 and get your bs and we don't start over. You Take Your Ivy Tech 194 00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:20.799 Credits, do you go on? You've already finished two years, you get 195 00:13:20.840 --> 00:13:22.879 your BSN and now you make it even more of my money, more money. 196 00:13:22.919 --> 00:13:26.639 That's what a career is. You continue to progress within that. So 197 00:13:26.269 --> 00:13:31.909 that's the message that we feel confident here in Indiana. People need to know 198 00:13:31.110 --> 00:13:37.549 more about ivy tech and I would suggest you across the country community colleges could 199 00:13:37.549 --> 00:13:43.419 do a better job of talking to people about the outcome of what they're graduates 200 00:13:43.500 --> 00:13:46.980 do when they leave the community counts and really we could try to guess what 201 00:13:46.100 --> 00:13:50.659 that messages. But look, the marketplaces tell on us. I need to 202 00:13:50.700 --> 00:13:52.700 know how much money I'm going to make and I'm need to know what kind 203 00:13:52.740 --> 00:13:56.850 of job I get and I'm going to need to know what types of places 204 00:13:56.889 --> 00:14:00.090 I'm going to work at. Yeah, I think that's so critical and I 205 00:14:00.129 --> 00:14:03.169 think you bring up a point that I've seen a lot of different research studies. 206 00:14:03.450 --> 00:14:05.889 You know, I work with a lot of with Association of Biblical Higher 207 00:14:05.889 --> 00:14:09.159 Education, and they've they commission bar in a research to do kind of a 208 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:13.480 study on, you know, what's expected from a from that type of degree. 209 00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:16.080 But it all comes down to outcomes. I mean, whether it's the 210 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:20.759 student, whether it's the parents, everyone wants to know what is the return 211 00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:24.230 on my investment? I think everybody understands now that higher education is an investment. 212 00:14:24.909 --> 00:14:28.110 You know, thirty, forty years ago, you know, it was 213 00:14:28.470 --> 00:14:33.789 not the percentage of, you know, annual income that it is today. 214 00:14:33.789 --> 00:14:37.070 I mean, higher education has gotten expensive and I think that people want to 215 00:14:37.110 --> 00:14:41.179 understand if I'm going to put this investment in, what is the outcome? 216 00:14:41.299 --> 00:14:43.700 What what can I expect? And I think that what you guys are doing 217 00:14:43.779 --> 00:14:48.299 to kind of research that and then tell the true stories of what Ivy Tech 218 00:14:48.419 --> 00:14:52.620 is experiencing, what your grads are experiencing. I think that's a really, 219 00:14:52.009 --> 00:14:56.889 really great, you know way to express those outcomes. Let me ask you 220 00:14:56.970 --> 00:15:00.809 this when you are working with other schools, because, I mean we've got 221 00:15:00.809 --> 00:15:03.250 a lot of different schools listening to this and they might say, well, 222 00:15:03.330 --> 00:15:07.399 you know, I've got to we've got articulation agreements with our local community college. 223 00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:13.720 But how is the best way for other schools to market that path for 224 00:15:13.960 --> 00:15:16.200 people? I mean, obviously you've got a lot of the students that are 225 00:15:16.039 --> 00:15:18.960 going to career ready automatically, but you've got a lot of students who either 226 00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:24.870 whether they're in high school taking ape classes or dual credit or doing some things 227 00:15:24.029 --> 00:15:28.509 with Ivy Tech, who are you going to be pulling away with several credits, 228 00:15:28.509 --> 00:15:31.590 even if they go and get an associates or whatever to be able to 229 00:15:31.629 --> 00:15:35.179 transfer? What would you be your suggestion for, you know, the for 230 00:15:35.299 --> 00:15:41.019 year schools to be able to to market to this group of students who are 231 00:15:41.100 --> 00:15:43.980 walking away with a, you know, two years under their belt but want 232 00:15:43.019 --> 00:15:46.779 to continue on. Yeah, well, I think one important thing that we've 233 00:15:46.820 --> 00:15:50.889 seen here in Indian and I think it's the case in other states too, 234 00:15:50.090 --> 00:15:56.850 is let's kind of stop the competition game. But there are plenty of people 235 00:15:56.210 --> 00:16:00.409 in our country who need to be educated and there are plenty of seats in 236 00:16:00.570 --> 00:16:04.279 all of our institutions, by our education that need to be filled. So 237 00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:08.240 its opposed to competing with each other? And if so, for example, 238 00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:15.759 as a community college, you might want to try to garner every corner of 239 00:16:15.879 --> 00:16:18.549 the market with respect to every student. But you know what, there's plenty 240 00:16:18.590 --> 00:16:23.549 of spaces and seats, especially here in Indiana with our our regional campuses that 241 00:16:23.590 --> 00:16:29.070 exist. Let's not be competitors, but let's make sure we share with a 242 00:16:30.070 --> 00:16:33.419 mine. Use this word customer, because they have a choice. They are 243 00:16:33.419 --> 00:16:37.139 a customer right share what the customer with their options are, because if the 244 00:16:37.259 --> 00:16:41.899 customer, potential student, believes they want to for year education, they believe 245 00:16:41.940 --> 00:16:45.899 that's their ticket, then make sure, whether you're the four year institution or 246 00:16:45.940 --> 00:16:48.330 the Community College. In this case, I'll use the for you institution as 247 00:16:48.330 --> 00:16:52.929 an example, if that's what they ultimately want, but you with the four 248 00:16:52.929 --> 00:16:56.529 year institution. It's not the right fit for that individual. Don't try to 249 00:16:56.610 --> 00:16:59.529 fit them into a bucket. That's not going to work for them and you 250 00:16:59.610 --> 00:17:02.639 know that a year later they're not going to be there any longer. Give 251 00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:06.839 them options that maybe the community causes the better rout maybe it's a financial decision, 252 00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:11.200 maybe it's just where they are with with respect to what they achieved academically 253 00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:15.990 in high school. Maybe it's with respect to they've been out of high school 254 00:17:15.029 --> 00:17:19.069 for a period of time and they really haven't taken many classes. So the 255 00:17:19.269 --> 00:17:23.630 better route maybe to go to the Community College to where there maybe twenty people 256 00:17:23.630 --> 00:17:27.470 in the classroom as opposed to two hundred people in the classroom. Put those 257 00:17:27.509 --> 00:17:32.019 options on the table for the consumer so they can see what they'll all of 258 00:17:32.099 --> 00:17:36.019 those are and let's not compete with each other because in the end we both 259 00:17:36.140 --> 00:17:41.140 can be a terrific resource for that potential student, starting at the Community College 260 00:17:41.220 --> 00:17:45.009 going on to for your susition. Look, I'll tell you that's if my 261 00:17:45.130 --> 00:17:48.809 experience at Ivy tact. So if I worked in admission during marketing at a 262 00:17:48.849 --> 00:17:53.690 four year institution, you can't replace a junior senior if they don't come back 263 00:17:53.730 --> 00:17:57.759 after their sophomore year or their junior year. There's no there's no magical junior 264 00:17:57.759 --> 00:18:02.519 or senior replacement. The place you find them is the community college. So 265 00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:06.119 partner at the Community College and you fill those seats because the data shows you 266 00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:10.680 not everybody that starts with this freshman is going to be the junior. That's 267 00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:14.109 just what the research shows. So partner with the Community College, because there's 268 00:18:14.150 --> 00:18:18.029 no other way to fill your junior seats or three hundred level of courses then 269 00:18:18.150 --> 00:18:21.470 taking people who have one hundred, two hundred level of course experience and where 270 00:18:21.509 --> 00:18:25.069 you're going to find them at a community college. And I think if we 271 00:18:25.230 --> 00:18:27.140 could really partner, and I think Indiana has done a great job of this, 272 00:18:27.339 --> 00:18:33.259 of we're all one seamless higher education system. Let's make sure everybody in 273 00:18:33.339 --> 00:18:37.940 Indiana knows that and you can move from one institution the other and make it 274 00:18:37.019 --> 00:18:41.299 seamless, of make it easy and approach it that way. I think that's 275 00:18:41.339 --> 00:18:45.250 a better approach for people to take and not be afraid that if you're at 276 00:18:45.289 --> 00:18:48.930 a four year and and that student goes home from the summer, it's okay, 277 00:18:48.970 --> 00:18:51.769 they pick up a class at the community college and then bring those cards 278 00:18:51.809 --> 00:18:55.650 back with them because, you know what, it's better that they're staying enrolled 279 00:18:55.720 --> 00:19:00.319 in the summer somewhere and staying in staying in higher education, because data shows 280 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:03.720 that you continue to stay and rolled. They like the hood of your continue 281 00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:07.519 to retain is better. So there's nothing wrong with that. If they don't 282 00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:10.230 choose to take it at your for institution, that choose take it to community 283 00:19:10.269 --> 00:19:12.230 college and bring those credits back. Make it easy, make it seamless for 284 00:19:12.269 --> 00:19:18.269 them to transfer those credits in and you know on your website show you take 285 00:19:18.309 --> 00:19:22.670 this class at community college, acts it's going to transfer to this institution or 286 00:19:22.990 --> 00:19:26.859 to this class at our institution. So I think that's the approach higher education 287 00:19:26.940 --> 00:19:33.859 should take and let's be one product together and kind of compete less with each 288 00:19:33.900 --> 00:19:37.859 other because, as I said earlier to start this, there are plenty of 289 00:19:37.059 --> 00:19:41.170 people in America who can fill the seats that exist in high education. Plenty 290 00:19:41.170 --> 00:19:44.890 of people need it. We just need to be a bit more inviting to 291 00:19:44.970 --> 00:19:47.490 make that happen. I agree with you on that, Jeff. I think 292 00:19:47.529 --> 00:19:49.089 that. I think that not only are there plenty of people who want that, 293 00:19:49.170 --> 00:19:52.730 there are plenty of people who don't know that they need it and it 294 00:19:52.769 --> 00:19:56.920 would be better. We would be better served together in helping people understand the 295 00:19:56.960 --> 00:20:00.160 power of what you know higher it ISM. I'm a first generation college student 296 00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:03.920 in a Troyas as well. We know the difference that higher education can make 297 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:10.069 in a life and the more people that understand that. And you're going to 298 00:20:10.150 --> 00:20:11.349 get me on a soapbox, but I think that that is that is the 299 00:20:11.430 --> 00:20:15.269 message that we need to be doing, as opposed to the the competition. 300 00:20:15.390 --> 00:20:17.990 So I appreciate that. Jeff, so try. I know you had a 301 00:20:18.029 --> 00:20:21.269 couple questions that you wanted to kind of jump in. Yeah, there's one, 302 00:20:21.859 --> 00:20:25.859 Jeff, that Barton knows, that I ask as we close every episode. 303 00:20:26.539 --> 00:20:29.660 You've been very generous and we appreciate the information you given us, but 304 00:20:30.059 --> 00:20:33.220 we also ask for one additional nugget. So let's assume that you're speaking to 305 00:20:33.700 --> 00:20:40.250 other successful community colleges leaders and if there would be an additional tip or idea 306 00:20:40.450 --> 00:20:44.250 that you've heard of maybe wanted to act upon, that you could share that 307 00:20:44.329 --> 00:20:48.130 they could implement rather quickly. What would that be? That's a great question 308 00:20:48.650 --> 00:20:52.039 and I think for me, and remember I mentioned to you, like my 309 00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:56.960 career tracks. First I came from college athletics and they moved into higher education. 310 00:20:56.039 --> 00:21:06.029 Might tip would be have honest conversations at your campus that these potential students, 311 00:21:06.549 --> 00:21:11.150 they have choices, their customers. You can't be afraid of that word. 312 00:21:11.230 --> 00:21:15.910 I think sometimes higher education is afraid of that word might tip would be 313 00:21:15.349 --> 00:21:22.180 it's okay, it's not a bad word in this space because they have choice. 314 00:21:22.259 --> 00:21:26.859 In the choice isn't always to pursue another institution, because I think sometimes 315 00:21:26.900 --> 00:21:30.500 people default to that. As customer know, the choice can be I choose 316 00:21:30.579 --> 00:21:33.930 not to choose higher education, just like as a customer of any product, 317 00:21:33.609 --> 00:21:37.490 often the choice isn't you bought another product. Often the choices you didn't buy 318 00:21:37.490 --> 00:21:41.690 the product at all, and I think that is something we can't be afraid 319 00:21:41.730 --> 00:21:48.799 of and we need to come into their space to to certainly make sure they 320 00:21:48.839 --> 00:21:51.440 know what the Roi on it is, what that return on investment is, 321 00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:55.880 and really convince them that this is the right move for you. And here 322 00:21:56.000 --> 00:22:00.920 is why, just like every day, we are marketed to as consumers and 323 00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:04.549 customers and people are trying to convince us as to why we should buy this 324 00:22:04.710 --> 00:22:07.990 product or buy that product. You know, higher education, that they don't 325 00:22:07.990 --> 00:22:11.670 always hear this as a product. Now it's probably as important of a product 326 00:22:11.670 --> 00:22:18.180 as any that's out there, but there's a reason why hospitals view patients as 327 00:22:18.259 --> 00:22:21.500 customers, because they have choice. But we all know and we all believe 328 00:22:21.500 --> 00:22:26.339 I think we'd all agree healthcare is something that's extremely important. But you see, 329 00:22:26.380 --> 00:22:30.849 it's funny. I related to you know you see billboards for hospitals telling 330 00:22:30.849 --> 00:22:33.809 you how long the ere weight time is. Well, they're clearly trying to 331 00:22:33.849 --> 00:22:37.410 talk to you as a customer because they know why you don't go to that 332 00:22:37.529 --> 00:22:41.210 hospital because it takes me too longer than they are. So that's how they 333 00:22:41.250 --> 00:22:44.440 position themselves. Higher education can make a different. I'm not saying we need 334 00:22:44.440 --> 00:22:45.759 to have a weight time on our education, but you know, it's interesting 335 00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:49.400 and higher education now we do talk to you about how quickly you can get 336 00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:52.480 you to agree and how quickly you get into the workforce. Is that maybe 337 00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:56.839 our weight time? I don't know, but I think that would be the 338 00:22:56.880 --> 00:23:00.230 advice I'd give. Try Is it's treated. It's okay to use that word. 339 00:23:00.230 --> 00:23:03.829 It's and let's have that on this conversation within our inner circles of higher 340 00:23:03.829 --> 00:23:07.269 education. It's not a bad thing, faculty member, when we use that 341 00:23:07.390 --> 00:23:11.269 word. It's okay. That's powerful and a great way to end our episode 342 00:23:11.670 --> 00:23:15.380 this week. So thank you, Jeff. If anyone would like to reach 343 00:23:15.380 --> 00:23:18.779 out to you for a question or maybe just to connect with you. What 344 00:23:18.900 --> 00:23:22.819 would be the best way for them to do that? The best way is 345 00:23:22.900 --> 00:23:26.019 my email at Jafanser, and that's a J F is in Frank A and 346 00:23:26.250 --> 00:23:32.569 tea isn't Tom be are. I detected out to you on my email constantly 347 00:23:32.609 --> 00:23:36.809 and I really enjoy having conversations with folks who reach out to me just for 348 00:23:36.930 --> 00:23:41.369 ideas, and also I'll coution you if I give you an idea, I 349 00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:45.079 wont one back in return. So I love ARN cover stations, because by 350 00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:49.119 no means am I an expert. I love to have conversations. My best 351 00:23:49.160 --> 00:23:53.200 ideas are those that I probably stilled from others. So as long as we 352 00:23:53.240 --> 00:23:56.990 can have a two way street and I can get something from you, welcome 353 00:23:56.029 --> 00:23:59.710 people to reach out. That's well. For the record, I think I 354 00:23:59.829 --> 00:24:03.670 owe you one because I'm taking that idea of that line and I'm running again. 355 00:24:03.869 --> 00:24:07.789 Thank you, Jeff. As we wind up, Bart do you have 356 00:24:07.950 --> 00:24:11.619 any additional thoughts or comments that you would like to make? Yeah, I 357 00:24:11.740 --> 00:24:14.140 just wanted to kind of underscore some of the things that Jeff said. I 358 00:24:14.259 --> 00:24:18.859 think the idea of really kind of looking at our prospective students our perspective, 359 00:24:18.900 --> 00:24:22.700 families, you know, the different stakeholders that we have as high red marketers, 360 00:24:22.099 --> 00:24:26.130 seeing them as customers, because I think that, as Jeff pointed out, 361 00:24:26.170 --> 00:24:29.490 they have a choice. They have a choice on your school, they 362 00:24:29.529 --> 00:24:32.289 have a choice on how they engage with your school, whether they end up 363 00:24:32.329 --> 00:24:34.650 on campus, whether they commute, whether they do a number of different things, 364 00:24:34.690 --> 00:24:37.759 and so we can't take for granted the fact that, Oh, you 365 00:24:37.839 --> 00:24:41.279 know, this is just where we are and this is what's going on. 366 00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:44.440 And I really like Jeff Point about the fact that, you know, customers 367 00:24:44.519 --> 00:24:47.799 not a it's not a bad word. I you know, I started my 368 00:24:47.880 --> 00:24:51.000 career in corporate I learned a lot of different things and I remember, I 369 00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:53.710 remember the late S I was doing a lot of work with Motorola and I 370 00:24:53.750 --> 00:24:57.069 would go up to Chicago and there in their war room and we would be 371 00:24:57.109 --> 00:25:00.910 up there kind of seeinging the you know, the upcoming secret mobile phones. 372 00:25:00.950 --> 00:25:03.910 I mean they were they were just launching mobile phones at that time and and 373 00:25:04.990 --> 00:25:10.380 they had all these ideas of how to market to teenagers for those. And 374 00:25:10.900 --> 00:25:12.420 you know, I was also working in higher head at that time and so 375 00:25:12.619 --> 00:25:15.220 I would go back and you know, I wasn't giving any secrets, but 376 00:25:15.259 --> 00:25:18.660 I'd be like, Hey, what if we did this to these teenagers, 377 00:25:18.700 --> 00:25:22.089 because obviously motor roles put a lot of money and free searching that. I 378 00:25:22.289 --> 00:25:27.289 think that thinking of your prospective students as customers opens up your ability to look 379 00:25:27.289 --> 00:25:30.569 at a lot of business books that have to do with marketing and and be 380 00:25:30.690 --> 00:25:36.680 able to apply your role as a highed marketer in into those business books. 381 00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:40.880 And so I think that just trying to really kind of understand the whole nature 382 00:25:40.880 --> 00:25:45.000 of the way business works, the way customers work, the way choice works 383 00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:48.799 can certainly apply to Highad so I think those are some really second points. 384 00:25:48.319 --> 00:25:52.950 I agree and I hope from this conversation maybe we get feedback to either one 385 00:25:52.990 --> 00:25:59.789 of you directly about viewing the students as a customer and maybe we'll started something 386 00:25:59.869 --> 00:26:03.710 here. So again, thanks to both of you. Bart, I just 387 00:26:03.869 --> 00:26:07.819 realize we always to ask our guests the best way to reach them, but 388 00:26:07.859 --> 00:26:10.660 we should be telling people the best way to reach us. I know I 389 00:26:11.019 --> 00:26:15.700 am active on Linkedin and that's where I spend most of my time and I'm 390 00:26:15.740 --> 00:26:22.049 most responsive to new inquiries. So just search troy singer on Linkedin and I'll 391 00:26:22.089 --> 00:26:25.130 come up. Bart. That would be the same. For me, I'm 392 00:26:25.130 --> 00:26:27.690 very active on Linkedin, I think. Also email. I like Jeff, 393 00:26:27.690 --> 00:26:33.359 I'm on email all the time. So Kaylor at Kaylor Solutionscom and would love 394 00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:38.039 to continue the conversations there, and thank you both for this great conversation. 395 00:26:38.920 --> 00:26:45.160 The High Ed Marketer podcast is sponsored by Barts Company, Kaylor solutions and education, 396 00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:48.869 marketing and branding agency and by Think, patented, a marketing, execution, 397 00:26:49.190 --> 00:26:55.750 printing and mailing provider of Higher Ed Solutions. On behalf of Bart Kaylor 398 00:26:55.990 --> 00:27:02.660 and myself, troy singer, thank you for joining us. You've been listening 399 00:27:02.740 --> 00:27:06.420 to the Higher Ed Marketer. To ensure that you never miss an episode, 400 00:27:06.700 --> 00:27:11.259 subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you're listening with apple 401 00:27:11.259 --> 00:27:14.339 PODCASTS, we'd love for you to leave a quick rating of the show. 402 00:27:14.380 --> 00:27:18.450 Simply tap the number of stars you think the podcast deserves. Until next time. 403 -->