Why You Should Be Outcome-Oriented in Community College Marketing

WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.520 --> 00:00:06.799 You are listening to the Higher Ed Marketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals 2 00:00:06.839 --> 00:00:11.509 in higher education. This show will tackle all sorts of questions related to student 3 00:00:11.550 --> 00:00:15.869 recruitment, don't have relations marketing trends, new technologies and so much more. 4 00:00:16.629 --> 00:00:20.429 If you are looking for conversations centered around where the industry is going, this 5 00:00:20.629 --> 00:00:30.300 podcast is for you. Let's get into the show. Welcome to the Higher 6 00:00:30.300 --> 00:00:34.979 Ed Marketer podcast. I'm choice singer here with our cohost Bart Taylor, and 7 00:00:35.219 --> 00:00:40.009 Barts a secret that might not be a secret by the time this podcast is 8 00:00:40.210 --> 00:00:45.090 released, that we're working on a Webinar that we are very excited about putting 9 00:00:45.090 --> 00:00:48.609 on the finishing touches that is going to have a lot of useful information for 10 00:00:48.649 --> 00:00:53.799 Higher Ed marketers. Would love to hear your perspective and what you're excited most 11 00:00:53.840 --> 00:00:57.799 about it. Yeah, this Webinar and, like you said, it's it's 12 00:00:57.840 --> 00:01:02.000 probably out there for everybody who hasn't didn't have a chance to tend can download 13 00:01:02.000 --> 00:01:04.750 it. But we really are looking forward to talking about managing the tools and 14 00:01:04.790 --> 00:01:08.709 the strategies for High Ed success. So you know, your background is print. 15 00:01:08.870 --> 00:01:11.750 You know, I think patent it does a lot of a marketing execution 16 00:01:11.870 --> 00:01:15.989 through print. I do a lot in print and digital, and what we're 17 00:01:15.989 --> 00:01:18.620 going to do is we're going to talk about how to combine those two to 18 00:01:18.739 --> 00:01:23.939 really make successful direct mail campaigns, whether those are direct mail in a search 19 00:01:23.019 --> 00:01:29.700 campaign, whether it's as part of your comflow, different ways of yet leveraging 20 00:01:29.980 --> 00:01:34.329 the direct mail campaigns to do that through personalization, through print on demand, 21 00:01:34.489 --> 00:01:37.810 through, you know, informed delivery and a lot of mail. Three hundred 22 00:01:37.810 --> 00:01:42.769 and sixty types of things that you can do around the mailing that quite frankly, 23 00:01:42.810 --> 00:01:45.689 up until troy and I got to work together in the last year or 24 00:01:45.769 --> 00:01:49.359 so, I was unfamiliar with that and it's there's a lot of advancements in 25 00:01:49.799 --> 00:01:53.200 in the mailing system and direct mail that are pretty powerful that you can combine 26 00:01:53.239 --> 00:01:57.200 with digital. So really excited about that. Thank you, Bart in. 27 00:01:57.280 --> 00:02:00.829 Yes, and for the record, Bart and I are working on a couple 28 00:02:00.909 --> 00:02:06.989 of projects for customers and that's the reason why we're able to bring this Webinar 29 00:02:07.150 --> 00:02:10.189 to let people know if the successes were having with our current customers and to 30 00:02:10.270 --> 00:02:16.060 see if anyone else would like to benefit from that success. But today really 31 00:02:16.139 --> 00:02:23.020 want to talk about our guests, which is Jeff Banter and he's with Ivy 32 00:02:23.099 --> 00:02:27.460 Tech Community College and Bart you have a history with jets, so you know 33 00:02:27.539 --> 00:02:30.050 him pretty well. Yeah, Jeff and I did some work together several years 34 00:02:30.090 --> 00:02:35.210 ago and I got to know Jeff Pretty well through that. He's a great 35 00:02:35.210 --> 00:02:39.650 guy. He came to ivy tech from a from a background in college athletics 36 00:02:40.289 --> 00:02:45.199 and he's a he's a brilliant marketer. Really does a lot of really good 37 00:02:45.240 --> 00:02:49.919 things for for Ivy Tech. Has really kind of taken them to kind of 38 00:02:49.960 --> 00:02:53.000 a sleepy community, from a sleepy community college, to one of the know 39 00:02:53.159 --> 00:02:58.159 most impactful institutions here in the state of Indiana, and so really am excited 40 00:02:58.199 --> 00:03:00.110 about this conversation we're going to have with in the day. I think he 41 00:03:00.110 --> 00:03:02.310 has a lot of really good information and a lot of really good information for 42 00:03:02.310 --> 00:03:07.189 high end marketers in general, not just specific to community colleges. But I 43 00:03:07.229 --> 00:03:09.550 think he has a lot of really good wisdom to bring to the table. 44 00:03:10.189 --> 00:03:19.020 Let's bring Jeff into the conversation. I'm excited welcome Jeffrey Fanter, Vice President 45 00:03:19.180 --> 00:03:23.740 for Marketing in communications at IB Tech Community College, to the show. Welcome 46 00:03:23.780 --> 00:03:27.449 Jeffreys. You to be here. Thank you for the opportunity. It's our 47 00:03:27.530 --> 00:03:30.370 pleasure to have you. If you would tell everyone about your role at I 48 00:03:30.449 --> 00:03:35.849 be tech. Sure I have the pleasure and have had the pleasure for the 49 00:03:35.889 --> 00:03:40.090 last seventeen plus years of serving as a vice president for marketing communications at Ivy 50 00:03:40.129 --> 00:03:45.639 Tech Community College. Sometimes I let her own fact about Ivy Tech Community College 51 00:03:45.639 --> 00:03:51.159 where their largest singly accredited statewide community college system in the country and the largest 52 00:03:51.240 --> 00:03:53.879 post secondary institution of our education in the state of Indiana. And so just 53 00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:58.389 been throughout to be in this role at every Tech Community College. That's great. 54 00:03:58.430 --> 00:04:01.430 Thanks, Jeff. I appreciate that kind of giving us that that rundown. 55 00:04:02.069 --> 00:04:05.270 You know, being here in Indiana, I'm really familiar with Ivy Tech 56 00:04:05.349 --> 00:04:09.349 and I know that you know just in full transparency for everyone. You and 57 00:04:09.389 --> 00:04:14.020 I have done some work before in the past and so but I also just 58 00:04:14.419 --> 00:04:17.139 you know, even growing up here, I know just the significance that ivy 59 00:04:17.180 --> 00:04:23.620 tech has had historically in the state of Indiana and you know it's traditionally you've 60 00:04:23.620 --> 00:04:28.529 established kind of that transfer, an affordability alternative, which isn't necessarily a bad 61 00:04:28.569 --> 00:04:30.290 thing in this day and age. But could you share some of the changes 62 00:04:30.370 --> 00:04:34.290 that advancements of how community college is, like Ivy Tech, are changing and 63 00:04:34.410 --> 00:04:38.449 the way that you are adapting to that. I mean a lot has changed 64 00:04:38.490 --> 00:04:41.120 in higher end in the last several years and thank you. Guys have done 65 00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:46.079 a good job of adapting to impact the students. Certainly, I think one 66 00:04:46.079 --> 00:04:49.040 of the ways, and you touched on the affordabilion and transferability, and certainly 67 00:04:49.079 --> 00:04:53.870 I think the folks has been to establish that and I think we've done a 68 00:04:53.870 --> 00:04:57.790 pretty good job at every tack. And the affordability is that access point for 69 00:04:57.910 --> 00:05:01.350 people to know they can afford to get into higher education and then that transferability 70 00:05:01.389 --> 00:05:04.589 is to move on to a four year institution. But I think what community 71 00:05:04.629 --> 00:05:08.740 college, and especially here in Indiana, have done exceptionally. Why, with 72 00:05:08.819 --> 00:05:14.620 every Tech Community College is established the fact that this is not necessarily just your 73 00:05:14.660 --> 00:05:19.060 launching off place for a four year degree. This this is a launching pad 74 00:05:19.220 --> 00:05:23.970 for a career, and I think that's a little known fact, or is 75 00:05:24.009 --> 00:05:28.490 becoming more of a known fact. But with Community College, people didn't always 76 00:05:28.490 --> 00:05:30.810 see them as the place where I can go to get a great career right 77 00:05:30.850 --> 00:05:34.370 when I leave community college. It's a launching up. Maybe it's a start 78 00:05:34.410 --> 00:05:38.319 of a job, and I really do believe there's difference between a job in 79 00:05:38.439 --> 00:05:43.319 a career. I firmly believe community college have now established themselves as a place 80 00:05:43.399 --> 00:05:46.800 to launch to a career and I think that's something that's the emerge, that 81 00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:49.230 would say over the last us, maybe five to seven years. It certainly 82 00:05:49.269 --> 00:05:56.430 there's more attension nationally and community colleges with respect to this concept of potens who 83 00:05:56.430 --> 00:06:00.230 could they be free across the country to create like a kid of fourteen tight 84 00:06:00.350 --> 00:06:04.420 model, and part of that is because people are knowing and embracing accepting the 85 00:06:04.500 --> 00:06:12.860 fact that community college is trained people to go into a career and sometimes people 86 00:06:12.860 --> 00:06:16.860 associated those careers maybe with some of the trade vocational things, but you know, 87 00:06:16.980 --> 00:06:20.930 we trained more nurses than anybody in the state of Indiana and sometimes people 88 00:06:20.930 --> 00:06:26.569 don't associate community college with that. I think folks are starting to understand more 89 00:06:26.970 --> 00:06:30.290 this is a launching off place point for a career and I think that's what's 90 00:06:30.329 --> 00:06:34.000 different about community college is bar probably in the last five to seven years, 91 00:06:34.120 --> 00:06:38.360 especially here in Indiana. I think it may be different other parts of the 92 00:06:38.399 --> 00:06:43.040 country, but here in Indiana because of the way higher education is kind of 93 00:06:43.079 --> 00:06:46.800 grown up with these regional campus that I you and produe had and in the 94 00:06:46.879 --> 00:06:49.709 role I be tact played more is that trade vocational school. I think it's 95 00:06:49.750 --> 00:06:53.790 changed over the years and I you know, it's been a pleasure to be 96 00:06:53.829 --> 00:06:58.149 a part of that and see people understand that better about ivy tech and the 97 00:06:58.189 --> 00:07:01.660 Roller Community College Boys. Yeah, Great. Out of curiosity, how would 98 00:07:01.660 --> 00:07:05.180 you define the difference between a job and a career? I think a job 99 00:07:05.579 --> 00:07:10.819 is, you know, I think about my own situation with my family. 100 00:07:10.980 --> 00:07:14.100 So I have a I have a nineteen year old daughter and a job for 101 00:07:14.220 --> 00:07:16.290 her as a job that she went to today where she went to a boutique, 102 00:07:16.370 --> 00:07:19.930 she worked in the store, she got paid the ways that she got 103 00:07:19.970 --> 00:07:24.410 paid, but it's not where she's going to be after she graduates from college. 104 00:07:24.410 --> 00:07:26.649 It's a job. It's a place too, frankly, for her. 105 00:07:26.810 --> 00:07:30.120 She's making some extra earnings for the summer. For other people, you know, 106 00:07:30.199 --> 00:07:32.879 a job may potentially be that earnings to frankly, put food on the 107 00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:39.120 table, which is an important thing, but really to then take your family 108 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:45.790 to another level or take your experience as someone who is the bread winner and 109 00:07:45.829 --> 00:07:47.709 your family or the leader of a friendly to another experience. That's a career 110 00:07:47.949 --> 00:07:51.990 to me and I think a career is when you can start to support your 111 00:07:53.029 --> 00:07:57.310 family, supports yourself, support other endeavors that you want to do with in 112 00:07:57.430 --> 00:08:00.300 your life. A career gives you the means to do that. Well, 113 00:08:00.339 --> 00:08:03.459 a job probably gives you an instant satisfaction what you need right at that moment, 114 00:08:05.180 --> 00:08:07.459 and I think that's what's difference between a job and a career and a 115 00:08:07.500 --> 00:08:09.620 job often, I think if you ask that people, they would talk about 116 00:08:09.660 --> 00:08:15.370 how they you change jobs multiple time. To Look, I've had jobs. 117 00:08:15.410 --> 00:08:16.850 I worked at Burger King, I worked at a shoe store. Those are 118 00:08:16.889 --> 00:08:22.089 jobs that not that they're bad places. The work, the great places work 119 00:08:22.129 --> 00:08:24.329 and there are a career passed with those. But when you ask me when 120 00:08:24.370 --> 00:08:28.199 my career is, I've had to career pass my life, one in college 121 00:08:28.240 --> 00:08:31.600 athletics and now on higher education. Those are different than my jobs that I 122 00:08:31.679 --> 00:08:35.759 had when I first came out of when I was in high school, first 123 00:08:35.759 --> 00:08:37.120 come out of high school, where those weren't the path I was going to 124 00:08:37.159 --> 00:08:41.039 be on forever. Okay, not that they weren't bad jobs, but I 125 00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:43.590 what my path was not to, you know, manage and run a burgher 126 00:08:43.590 --> 00:08:46.629 king and manage and run, at that time, Kenney shoes. My career, 127 00:08:46.830 --> 00:08:50.789 though, is where I am. Why isn't in in Conns athletics and 128 00:08:50.909 --> 00:08:54.029 now I'm in higher education? Yeah, that's great. I appreciate you kind 129 00:08:54.029 --> 00:08:58.019 of clarifying that and so many I hear it so much in different angles of 130 00:08:58.139 --> 00:09:01.820 color of higher education, you know, whether it's through the Community College Lens 131 00:09:01.860 --> 00:09:05.820 of Career Ready, and you know there's a lot of a lot of talk 132 00:09:05.899 --> 00:09:09.690 around career ready, around open skills and being able to transfer those credentialing, 133 00:09:09.769 --> 00:09:13.210 those types of things that we do some work with Western governor's university and we're 134 00:09:13.210 --> 00:09:16.570 learning a lot about some of the things that they're leading in that. But 135 00:09:16.970 --> 00:09:22.289 I think it's so important because there is this this idea, I think you 136 00:09:22.370 --> 00:09:24.639 know good, bad or ill, the idea that there's a certain path to 137 00:09:24.679 --> 00:09:28.440 a certain life. But I think that you're trying, you're making the point 138 00:09:28.519 --> 00:09:35.000 that community college is at least with Ivytech, those those paths to careers go 139 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:37.080 different ways. They can neither go through the traditional four year that that people 140 00:09:37.279 --> 00:09:41.870 often do. They can also go through community college and they can do a 141 00:09:41.990 --> 00:09:45.429 combination of both. There's just a lot of ways to careers and I think 142 00:09:45.429 --> 00:09:48.429 that's refreshing to see that that come about. So, as as we kind 143 00:09:48.429 --> 00:09:54.539 of think about that and how the impact community colleges are having, let's kind 144 00:09:54.539 --> 00:09:58.539 of shift a little bit and talk about how to market that impact. I 145 00:09:58.620 --> 00:10:01.179 mean, and I think I just kind of illustrate a little bit, there's 146 00:10:01.179 --> 00:10:05.860 a there's somewhat of a perception out there that that sometimes community colleges have to 147 00:10:05.899 --> 00:10:09.370 overcome. You've mentioned a little bit yourself. Tell us a little bit about 148 00:10:09.370 --> 00:10:13.370 how and different ways that you're marketing ivy tech for that change and and to 149 00:10:13.529 --> 00:10:20.769 help persuade those people who might not want understand higher education and to understand that 150 00:10:20.250 --> 00:10:24.759 it's a path to a career. Well, one of the keys that bark 151 00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:28.200 for us in the steps that we took to the decision that we've made and 152 00:10:28.279 --> 00:10:31.960 what we're calling a brand evolution with respect to every tech community colleges, we 153 00:10:31.039 --> 00:10:37.070 did some research to try to figure out what our external audiences think about community 154 00:10:37.149 --> 00:10:41.870 college. What you said is correct. You know, community colleges across the 155 00:10:41.950 --> 00:10:46.389 country there is there is an element of perception challenge, perception issue. I 156 00:10:46.549 --> 00:10:50.860 call it a perception misunderstanding, but you need to then find out. So 157 00:10:50.019 --> 00:10:54.379 what is that perception and misunderstanding? And we found out from our external audience 158 00:10:54.580 --> 00:11:00.980 is really what the in it's it's a misunderstanding, slash lack of knowledge. 159 00:11:01.340 --> 00:11:05.690 They just don't understand what it is that an ivy tech credential can get them. 160 00:11:05.330 --> 00:11:09.409 They understand it's fordable, they understand credits transfer, but they don't understand 161 00:11:09.570 --> 00:11:13.889 what is the value in an ivy tech credential. I say this. So 162 00:11:13.049 --> 00:11:16.250 what question? So what does that detect give me? What does that I 163 00:11:16.370 --> 00:11:22.039 detect credential given? We learned in speaking to our exturnatis is that's the question 164 00:11:22.080 --> 00:11:26.799 they want answered and they don't want to to stay answered with kind of the 165 00:11:26.840 --> 00:11:30.799 Marketing Speaker, the marketing word of it gets you a high wage career, 166 00:11:30.919 --> 00:11:33.750 it gets you a high value job, which are those are the terms we 167 00:11:33.830 --> 00:11:37.149 used today and some of our marketing. They need data and support behind that. 168 00:11:37.470 --> 00:11:41.870 They need to they need proof, they need to see what are those 169 00:11:41.909 --> 00:11:45.750 highways jobs, what are those careers and and show me how much money you're 170 00:11:45.789 --> 00:11:48.779 going to make. So it's very outcomes drive and that's what we found out. 171 00:11:48.860 --> 00:11:54.139 So what we're trying to shift to is informing people this is what an 172 00:11:54.179 --> 00:11:58.259 IV tech degree gets you, based on the amount of money our graduates make, 173 00:11:58.580 --> 00:12:03.250 based on the types of jobs. Ever, graduates have not just potentially 174 00:12:03.370 --> 00:12:07.049 what that type of job can get you, but what somebody who went to 175 00:12:07.169 --> 00:12:09.889 ivy tech that has that type of job gets paid, and I think that's 176 00:12:11.049 --> 00:12:15.049 extremely important because, look, we're in a market where other schools do the 177 00:12:15.090 --> 00:12:18.840 same thing. Our graduates at university x make this much money, they get 178 00:12:18.879 --> 00:12:22.399 this type of signing bonus. This is their media income and that's what they 179 00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:26.679 hear and that's what people digest in here. So we need to then jump 180 00:12:26.759 --> 00:12:30.070 into that market and say, well, this is when an ivy tech one 181 00:12:30.110 --> 00:12:33.509 gets you, and I I'm confident that people are going to be shocked when 182 00:12:33.549 --> 00:12:37.230 they see how much money some of our graduates that left attack within their first 183 00:12:37.269 --> 00:12:41.389 year make, not just not be type of community colleges in general. I 184 00:12:41.470 --> 00:12:43.340 think they're going to be shocked by that. And then, on top of 185 00:12:43.500 --> 00:12:48.539 that, secondary to that, messages all, by the way, it's affordable. 186 00:12:48.940 --> 00:12:52.620 It's more affordable amount of their options that are out there. And to 187 00:12:52.700 --> 00:12:56.620 your point about some careers do require a four year degree. Our credits will 188 00:12:56.659 --> 00:13:01.210 transfer on if, at a later day, you need to go pursue further 189 00:13:01.450 --> 00:13:05.169 education. was certainly is valuable for all of us to do, and our 190 00:13:05.289 --> 00:13:09.129 credits are going to continue you on the path that you don't need to restart. 191 00:13:09.730 --> 00:13:11.250 You know, in nursing and nursing to great example, you may you 192 00:13:11.330 --> 00:13:13.559 may start at one level as a nurse, but then you need to go 193 00:13:13.679 --> 00:13:16.960 and get your bs and we don't start over. You Take Your Ivy Tech 194 00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:20.799 Credits, do you go on? You've already finished two years, you get 195 00:13:20.840 --> 00:13:22.879 your BSN and now you make it even more of my money, more money. 196 00:13:22.919 --> 00:13:26.639 That's what a career is. You continue to progress within that. So 197 00:13:26.269 --> 00:13:31.909 that's the message that we feel confident here in Indiana. People need to know 198 00:13:31.110 --> 00:13:37.549 more about ivy tech and I would suggest you across the country community colleges could 199 00:13:37.549 --> 00:13:43.419 do a better job of talking to people about the outcome of what they're graduates 200 00:13:43.500 --> 00:13:46.980 do when they leave the community counts and really we could try to guess what 201 00:13:46.100 --> 00:13:50.659 that messages. But look, the marketplaces tell on us. I need to 202 00:13:50.700 --> 00:13:52.700 know how much money I'm going to make and I'm need to know what kind 203 00:13:52.740 --> 00:13:56.850 of job I get and I'm going to need to know what types of places 204 00:13:56.889 --> 00:14:00.090 I'm going to work at. Yeah, I think that's so critical and I 205 00:14:00.129 --> 00:14:03.169 think you bring up a point that I've seen a lot of different research studies. 206 00:14:03.450 --> 00:14:05.889 You know, I work with a lot of with Association of Biblical Higher 207 00:14:05.889 --> 00:14:09.159 Education, and they've they commission bar in a research to do kind of a 208 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:13.480 study on, you know, what's expected from a from that type of degree. 209 00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:16.080 But it all comes down to outcomes. I mean, whether it's the 210 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:20.759 student, whether it's the parents, everyone wants to know what is the return 211 00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:24.230 on my investment? I think everybody understands now that higher education is an investment. 212 00:14:24.909 --> 00:14:28.110 You know, thirty, forty years ago, you know, it was 213 00:14:28.470 --> 00:14:33.789 not the percentage of, you know, annual income that it is today. 214 00:14:33.789 --> 00:14:37.070 I mean, higher education has gotten expensive and I think that people want to 215 00:14:37.110 --> 00:14:41.179 understand if I'm going to put this investment in, what is the outcome? 216 00:14:41.299 --> 00:14:43.700 What what can I expect? And I think that what you guys are doing 217 00:14:43.779 --> 00:14:48.299 to kind of research that and then tell the true stories of what Ivy Tech 218 00:14:48.419 --> 00:14:52.620 is experiencing, what your grads are experiencing. I think that's a really, 219 00:14:52.009 --> 00:14:56.889 really great, you know way to express those outcomes. Let me ask you 220 00:14:56.970 --> 00:15:00.809 this when you are working with other schools, because, I mean we've got 221 00:15:00.809 --> 00:15:03.250 a lot of different schools listening to this and they might say, well, 222 00:15:03.330 --> 00:15:07.399 you know, I've got to we've got articulation agreements with our local community college. 223 00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:13.720 But how is the best way for other schools to market that path for 224 00:15:13.960 --> 00:15:16.200 people? I mean, obviously you've got a lot of the students that are 225 00:15:16.039 --> 00:15:18.960 going to career ready automatically, but you've got a lot of students who either 226 00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:24.870 whether they're in high school taking ape classes or dual credit or doing some things 227 00:15:24.029 --> 00:15:28.509 with Ivy Tech, who are you going to be pulling away with several credits, 228 00:15:28.509 --> 00:15:31.590 even if they go and get an associates or whatever to be able to 229 00:15:31.629 --> 00:15:35.179 transfer? What would you be your suggestion for, you know, the for 230 00:15:35.299 --> 00:15:41.019 year schools to be able to to market to this group of students who are 231 00:15:41.100 --> 00:15:43.980 walking away with a, you know, two years under their belt but want 232 00:15:43.019 --> 00:15:46.779 to continue on. Yeah, well, I think one important thing that we've 233 00:15:46.820 --> 00:15:50.889 seen here in Indian and I think it's the case in other states too, 234 00:15:50.090 --> 00:15:56.850 is let's kind of stop the competition game. But there are plenty of people 235 00:15:56.210 --> 00:16:00.409 in our country who need to be educated and there are plenty of seats in 236 00:16:00.570 --> 00:16:04.279 all of our institutions, by our education that need to be filled. So 237 00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:08.240 its opposed to competing with each other? And if so, for example, 238 00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:15.759 as a community college, you might want to try to garner every corner of 239 00:16:15.879 --> 00:16:18.549 the market with respect to every student. But you know what, there's plenty 240 00:16:18.590 --> 00:16:23.549 of spaces and seats, especially here in Indiana with our our regional campuses that 241 00:16:23.590 --> 00:16:29.070 exist. Let's not be competitors, but let's make sure we share with a 242 00:16:30.070 --> 00:16:33.419 mine. Use this word customer, because they have a choice. They are 243 00:16:33.419 --> 00:16:37.139 a customer right share what the customer with their options are, because if the 244 00:16:37.259 --> 00:16:41.899 customer, potential student, believes they want to for year education, they believe 245 00:16:41.940 --> 00:16:45.899 that's their ticket, then make sure, whether you're the four year institution or 246 00:16:45.940 --> 00:16:48.330 the Community College. In this case, I'll use the for you institution as 247 00:16:48.330 --> 00:16:52.929 an example, if that's what they ultimately want, but you with the four 248 00:16:52.929 --> 00:16:56.529 year institution. It's not the right fit for that individual. Don't try to 249 00:16:56.610 --> 00:16:59.529 fit them into a bucket. That's not going to work for them and you 250 00:16:59.610 --> 00:17:02.639 know that a year later they're not going to be there any longer. Give 251 00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:06.839 them options that maybe the community causes the better rout maybe it's a financial decision, 252 00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:11.200 maybe it's just where they are with with respect to what they achieved academically 253 00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:15.990 in high school. Maybe it's with respect to they've been out of high school 254 00:17:15.029 --> 00:17:19.069 for a period of time and they really haven't taken many classes. So the 255 00:17:19.269 --> 00:17:23.630 better route maybe to go to the Community College to where there maybe twenty people 256 00:17:23.630 --> 00:17:27.470 in the classroom as opposed to two hundred people in the classroom. Put those 257 00:17:27.509 --> 00:17:32.019 options on the table for the consumer so they can see what they'll all of 258 00:17:32.099 --> 00:17:36.019 those are and let's not compete with each other because in the end we both 259 00:17:36.140 --> 00:17:41.140 can be a terrific resource for that potential student, starting at the Community College 260 00:17:41.220 --> 00:17:45.009 going on to for your susition. Look, I'll tell you that's if my 261 00:17:45.130 --> 00:17:48.809 experience at Ivy tact. So if I worked in admission during marketing at a 262 00:17:48.849 --> 00:17:53.690 four year institution, you can't replace a junior senior if they don't come back 263 00:17:53.730 --> 00:17:57.759 after their sophomore year or their junior year. There's no there's no magical junior 264 00:17:57.759 --> 00:18:02.519 or senior replacement. The place you find them is the community college. So 265 00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:06.119 partner at the Community College and you fill those seats because the data shows you 266 00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:10.680 not everybody that starts with this freshman is going to be the junior. That's 267 00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:14.109 just what the research shows. So partner with the Community College, because there's 268 00:18:14.150 --> 00:18:18.029 no other way to fill your junior seats or three hundred level of courses then 269 00:18:18.150 --> 00:18:21.470 taking people who have one hundred, two hundred level of course experience and where 270 00:18:21.509 --> 00:18:25.069 you're going to find them at a community college. And I think if we 271 00:18:25.230 --> 00:18:27.140 could really partner, and I think Indiana has done a great job of this, 272 00:18:27.339 --> 00:18:33.259 of we're all one seamless higher education system. Let's make sure everybody in 273 00:18:33.339 --> 00:18:37.940 Indiana knows that and you can move from one institution the other and make it 274 00:18:37.019 --> 00:18:41.299 seamless, of make it easy and approach it that way. I think that's 275 00:18:41.339 --> 00:18:45.250 a better approach for people to take and not be afraid that if you're at 276 00:18:45.289 --> 00:18:48.930 a four year and and that student goes home from the summer, it's okay, 277 00:18:48.970 --> 00:18:51.769 they pick up a class at the community college and then bring those cards 278 00:18:51.809 --> 00:18:55.650 back with them because, you know what, it's better that they're staying enrolled 279 00:18:55.720 --> 00:19:00.319 in the summer somewhere and staying in staying in higher education, because data shows 280 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:03.720 that you continue to stay and rolled. They like the hood of your continue 281 00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:07.519 to retain is better. So there's nothing wrong with that. If they don't 282 00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:10.230 choose to take it at your for institution, that choose take it to community 283 00:19:10.269 --> 00:19:12.230 college and bring those credits back. Make it easy, make it seamless for 284 00:19:12.269 --> 00:19:18.269 them to transfer those credits in and you know on your website show you take 285 00:19:18.309 --> 00:19:22.670 this class at community college, acts it's going to transfer to this institution or 286 00:19:22.990 --> 00:19:26.859 to this class at our institution. So I think that's the approach higher education 287 00:19:26.940 --> 00:19:33.859 should take and let's be one product together and kind of compete less with each 288 00:19:33.900 --> 00:19:37.859 other because, as I said earlier to start this, there are plenty of 289 00:19:37.059 --> 00:19:41.170 people in America who can fill the seats that exist in high education. Plenty 290 00:19:41.170 --> 00:19:44.890 of people need it. We just need to be a bit more inviting to 291 00:19:44.970 --> 00:19:47.490 make that happen. I agree with you on that, Jeff. I think 292 00:19:47.529 --> 00:19:49.089 that. I think that not only are there plenty of people who want that, 293 00:19:49.170 --> 00:19:52.730 there are plenty of people who don't know that they need it and it 294 00:19:52.769 --> 00:19:56.920 would be better. We would be better served together in helping people understand the 295 00:19:56.960 --> 00:20:00.160 power of what you know higher it ISM. I'm a first generation college student 296 00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:03.920 in a Troyas as well. We know the difference that higher education can make 297 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:10.069 in a life and the more people that understand that. And you're going to 298 00:20:10.150 --> 00:20:11.349 get me on a soapbox, but I think that that is that is the 299 00:20:11.430 --> 00:20:15.269 message that we need to be doing, as opposed to the the competition. 300 00:20:15.390 --> 00:20:17.990 So I appreciate that. Jeff, so try. I know you had a 301 00:20:18.029 --> 00:20:21.269 couple questions that you wanted to kind of jump in. Yeah, there's one, 302 00:20:21.859 --> 00:20:25.859 Jeff, that Barton knows, that I ask as we close every episode. 303 00:20:26.539 --> 00:20:29.660 You've been very generous and we appreciate the information you given us, but 304 00:20:30.059 --> 00:20:33.220 we also ask for one additional nugget. So let's assume that you're speaking to 305 00:20:33.700 --> 00:20:40.250 other successful community colleges leaders and if there would be an additional tip or idea 306 00:20:40.450 --> 00:20:44.250 that you've heard of maybe wanted to act upon, that you could share that 307 00:20:44.329 --> 00:20:48.130 they could implement rather quickly. What would that be? That's a great question 308 00:20:48.650 --> 00:20:52.039 and I think for me, and remember I mentioned to you, like my 309 00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:56.960 career tracks. First I came from college athletics and they moved into higher education. 310 00:20:56.039 --> 00:21:06.029 Might tip would be have honest conversations at your campus that these potential students, 311 00:21:06.549 --> 00:21:11.150 they have choices, their customers. You can't be afraid of that word. 312 00:21:11.230 --> 00:21:15.910 I think sometimes higher education is afraid of that word might tip would be 313 00:21:15.349 --> 00:21:22.180 it's okay, it's not a bad word in this space because they have choice. 314 00:21:22.259 --> 00:21:26.859 In the choice isn't always to pursue another institution, because I think sometimes 315 00:21:26.900 --> 00:21:30.500 people default to that. As customer know, the choice can be I choose 316 00:21:30.579 --> 00:21:33.930 not to choose higher education, just like as a customer of any product, 317 00:21:33.609 --> 00:21:37.490 often the choice isn't you bought another product. Often the choices you didn't buy 318 00:21:37.490 --> 00:21:41.690 the product at all, and I think that is something we can't be afraid 319 00:21:41.730 --> 00:21:48.799 of and we need to come into their space to to certainly make sure they 320 00:21:48.839 --> 00:21:51.440 know what the Roi on it is, what that return on investment is, 321 00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:55.880 and really convince them that this is the right move for you. And here 322 00:21:56.000 --> 00:22:00.920 is why, just like every day, we are marketed to as consumers and 323 00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:04.549 customers and people are trying to convince us as to why we should buy this 324 00:22:04.710 --> 00:22:07.990 product or buy that product. You know, higher education, that they don't 325 00:22:07.990 --> 00:22:11.670 always hear this as a product. Now it's probably as important of a product 326 00:22:11.670 --> 00:22:18.180 as any that's out there, but there's a reason why hospitals view patients as 327 00:22:18.259 --> 00:22:21.500 customers, because they have choice. But we all know and we all believe 328 00:22:21.500 --> 00:22:26.339 I think we'd all agree healthcare is something that's extremely important. But you see, 329 00:22:26.380 --> 00:22:30.849 it's funny. I related to you know you see billboards for hospitals telling 330 00:22:30.849 --> 00:22:33.809 you how long the ere weight time is. Well, they're clearly trying to 331 00:22:33.849 --> 00:22:37.410 talk to you as a customer because they know why you don't go to that 332 00:22:37.529 --> 00:22:41.210 hospital because it takes me too longer than they are. So that's how they 333 00:22:41.250 --> 00:22:44.440 position themselves. Higher education can make a different. I'm not saying we need 334 00:22:44.440 --> 00:22:45.759 to have a weight time on our education, but you know, it's interesting 335 00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:49.400 and higher education now we do talk to you about how quickly you can get 336 00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:52.480 you to agree and how quickly you get into the workforce. Is that maybe 337 00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:56.839 our weight time? I don't know, but I think that would be the 338 00:22:56.880 --> 00:23:00.230 advice I'd give. Try Is it's treated. It's okay to use that word. 339 00:23:00.230 --> 00:23:03.829 It's and let's have that on this conversation within our inner circles of higher 340 00:23:03.829 --> 00:23:07.269 education. It's not a bad thing, faculty member, when we use that 341 00:23:07.390 --> 00:23:11.269 word. It's okay. That's powerful and a great way to end our episode 342 00:23:11.670 --> 00:23:15.380 this week. So thank you, Jeff. If anyone would like to reach 343 00:23:15.380 --> 00:23:18.779 out to you for a question or maybe just to connect with you. What 344 00:23:18.900 --> 00:23:22.819 would be the best way for them to do that? The best way is 345 00:23:22.900 --> 00:23:26.019 my email at Jafanser, and that's a J F is in Frank A and 346 00:23:26.250 --> 00:23:32.569 tea isn't Tom be are. I detected out to you on my email constantly 347 00:23:32.609 --> 00:23:36.809 and I really enjoy having conversations with folks who reach out to me just for 348 00:23:36.930 --> 00:23:41.369 ideas, and also I'll coution you if I give you an idea, I 349 00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:45.079 wont one back in return. So I love ARN cover stations, because by 350 00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:49.119 no means am I an expert. I love to have conversations. My best 351 00:23:49.160 --> 00:23:53.200 ideas are those that I probably stilled from others. So as long as we 352 00:23:53.240 --> 00:23:56.990 can have a two way street and I can get something from you, welcome 353 00:23:56.029 --> 00:23:59.710 people to reach out. That's well. For the record, I think I 354 00:23:59.829 --> 00:24:03.670 owe you one because I'm taking that idea of that line and I'm running again. 355 00:24:03.869 --> 00:24:07.789 Thank you, Jeff. As we wind up, Bart do you have 356 00:24:07.950 --> 00:24:11.619 any additional thoughts or comments that you would like to make? Yeah, I 357 00:24:11.740 --> 00:24:14.140 just wanted to kind of underscore some of the things that Jeff said. I 358 00:24:14.259 --> 00:24:18.859 think the idea of really kind of looking at our prospective students our perspective, 359 00:24:18.900 --> 00:24:22.700 families, you know, the different stakeholders that we have as high red marketers, 360 00:24:22.099 --> 00:24:26.130 seeing them as customers, because I think that, as Jeff pointed out, 361 00:24:26.170 --> 00:24:29.490 they have a choice. They have a choice on your school, they 362 00:24:29.529 --> 00:24:32.289 have a choice on how they engage with your school, whether they end up 363 00:24:32.329 --> 00:24:34.650 on campus, whether they commute, whether they do a number of different things, 364 00:24:34.690 --> 00:24:37.759 and so we can't take for granted the fact that, Oh, you 365 00:24:37.839 --> 00:24:41.279 know, this is just where we are and this is what's going on. 366 00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:44.440 And I really like Jeff Point about the fact that, you know, customers 367 00:24:44.519 --> 00:24:47.799 not a it's not a bad word. I you know, I started my 368 00:24:47.880 --> 00:24:51.000 career in corporate I learned a lot of different things and I remember, I 369 00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:53.710 remember the late S I was doing a lot of work with Motorola and I 370 00:24:53.750 --> 00:24:57.069 would go up to Chicago and there in their war room and we would be 371 00:24:57.109 --> 00:25:00.910 up there kind of seeinging the you know, the upcoming secret mobile phones. 372 00:25:00.950 --> 00:25:03.910 I mean they were they were just launching mobile phones at that time and and 373 00:25:04.990 --> 00:25:10.380 they had all these ideas of how to market to teenagers for those. And 374 00:25:10.900 --> 00:25:12.420 you know, I was also working in higher head at that time and so 375 00:25:12.619 --> 00:25:15.220 I would go back and you know, I wasn't giving any secrets, but 376 00:25:15.259 --> 00:25:18.660 I'd be like, Hey, what if we did this to these teenagers, 377 00:25:18.700 --> 00:25:22.089 because obviously motor roles put a lot of money and free searching that. I 378 00:25:22.289 --> 00:25:27.289 think that thinking of your prospective students as customers opens up your ability to look 379 00:25:27.289 --> 00:25:30.569 at a lot of business books that have to do with marketing and and be 380 00:25:30.690 --> 00:25:36.680 able to apply your role as a highed marketer in into those business books. 381 00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:40.880 And so I think that just trying to really kind of understand the whole nature 382 00:25:40.880 --> 00:25:45.000 of the way business works, the way customers work, the way choice works 383 00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:48.799 can certainly apply to Highad so I think those are some really second points. 384 00:25:48.319 --> 00:25:52.950 I agree and I hope from this conversation maybe we get feedback to either one 385 00:25:52.990 --> 00:25:59.789 of you directly about viewing the students as a customer and maybe we'll started something 386 00:25:59.869 --> 00:26:03.710 here. So again, thanks to both of you. Bart, I just 387 00:26:03.869 --> 00:26:07.819 realize we always to ask our guests the best way to reach them, but 388 00:26:07.859 --> 00:26:10.660 we should be telling people the best way to reach us. I know I 389 00:26:11.019 --> 00:26:15.700 am active on Linkedin and that's where I spend most of my time and I'm 390 00:26:15.740 --> 00:26:22.049 most responsive to new inquiries. So just search troy singer on Linkedin and I'll 391 00:26:22.089 --> 00:26:25.130 come up. Bart. That would be the same. For me, I'm 392 00:26:25.130 --> 00:26:27.690 very active on Linkedin, I think. Also email. I like Jeff, 393 00:26:27.690 --> 00:26:33.359 I'm on email all the time. So Kaylor at Kaylor Solutionscom and would love 394 00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:38.039 to continue the conversations there, and thank you both for this great conversation. 395 00:26:38.920 --> 00:26:45.160 The High Ed Marketer podcast is sponsored by Barts Company, Kaylor solutions and education, 396 00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:48.869 marketing and branding agency and by Think, patented, a marketing, execution, 397 00:26:49.190 --> 00:26:55.750 printing and mailing provider of Higher Ed Solutions. On behalf of Bart Kaylor 398 00:26:55.990 --> 00:27:02.660 and myself, troy singer, thank you for joining us. You've been listening 399 00:27:02.740 --> 00:27:06.420 to the Higher Ed Marketer. To ensure that you never miss an episode, 400 00:27:06.700 --> 00:27:11.259 subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. 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