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Aug. 9, 2022

Why Marketers Should Always Start With Why

Why Marketers Should Always Start With Why

The only way to truly impact is to align particular strategies with particular audiences. To continue pushing the needle forward as marketers, we must think strategically about why we do what we do. 

Chris Bender, the Assistant Dean for Communications at the University of Maryland, joins us today to discuss why marketers should think more strategically. Chris brings a wealth of experience and knowledge in higher ed marketing and talks with us today about how our work as marketers can be strategic and move business forward. 

Join us as we discuss:

  •  How marketers can better differentiate themselves from other schools. 
  •  Why it is essential to present yourself in a way that is strategically linked to the universities goals. 
  •  Why you should let the audience dictate strategy, not tactics. 

The Higher Ed Marketer podcast is sponsored by Caylor Solutions, an Education Marketing and Branding Agency, and by Think Patented, a Marketing Execution, Printing and Mailing provider of Higher Ed solutions.

    

 

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:06.320 The High Red Marketer podcast is sponsored by the ZEMI APP enabling colleges and universities 2 00:00:06.519 --> 00:00:14.560 to engage interested students before they even apply. You're listening to the Higher Ed 3 00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:19.920 Marketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals in higher education. This show will 4 00:00:19.920 --> 00:00:24.800 tackle all sorts of questions related to student recruitment, donor relations, marketing trends, 5 00:00:24.800 --> 00:00:29.559 new technologies and so much more. If you're looking for conversations centered around 6 00:00:29.600 --> 00:00:33.759 where the industry is going, this podcast is for you. Let's get into 7 00:00:33.799 --> 00:00:46.159 the show. Welcome to the High Reed Marketer podcast. I'm troy singer here 8 00:00:46.159 --> 00:00:51.320 with Bart Kaylor. Today we interview Chris Bender, who is the assistant deed 9 00:00:51.359 --> 00:00:57.119 for communications for the Aid James Clark School of Engineering at the University of Maryland 10 00:00:57.679 --> 00:01:03.280 and if you have a conversation with risks, his overall value that he will 11 00:01:03.320 --> 00:01:10.239 bring to that conversation is convincing marketers that they should speak and think more strategically 12 00:01:10.359 --> 00:01:15.480 instead of tactically, and he makes a great case for this within our podcast 13 00:01:15.480 --> 00:01:19.879 today. Yeah, try, I really enjoy the conversations with Chris. I 14 00:01:19.879 --> 00:01:23.079 mean this is you know, we've we've had several conversations with him and leading 15 00:01:23.120 --> 00:01:26.519 up to this podcast recording. But, um, he's so articulate and thoughtful 16 00:01:26.640 --> 00:01:30.840 in what he what he brings to the table and I really appreciate his desire 17 00:01:32.280 --> 00:01:34.400 not only for himself but for really kind of, uh, you know, 18 00:01:34.439 --> 00:01:38.680 illustrating it by example, of really trying to be more strategic in the way 19 00:01:38.719 --> 00:01:42.799 that he does all of his work, whether it's in the way he describes 20 00:01:42.879 --> 00:01:47.760 the management style that he has with his team or whether he's describing how to 21 00:01:47.799 --> 00:01:52.359 communicate, Um, the the impact that the marketing is making to various, 22 00:01:52.640 --> 00:01:56.239 you know, constituents on campus. I really think he brings a lot to 23 00:01:56.319 --> 00:01:59.840 the table. I would encourage you to kind of listen to this and he 24 00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:04.000 has some resources that he points out, a couple you know television shows that 25 00:02:04.079 --> 00:02:07.840 he encourages everyone to watch, as well as a book or two that he 26 00:02:07.920 --> 00:02:12.400 might mention as well. But it's it's such a rich conversation and and again 27 00:02:12.479 --> 00:02:15.800 we're we're kind of taking it to a strategic level on the way that we 28 00:02:15.879 --> 00:02:19.360 think about strategy today. So there's not gonna be a lot of tactics that 29 00:02:19.400 --> 00:02:22.400 you're gonna walk away with, but if there's plenty of notes that you can 30 00:02:22.400 --> 00:02:25.000 take on how to be a better, higher ed marketer. Here's our conversation 31 00:02:25.080 --> 00:02:32.240 with Chris Bender. We really appreciate Chris Coming on the PODCAST and being willing 32 00:02:32.280 --> 00:02:38.759 to share his opinion and knowledge of why marketers should think more strategically. But, 33 00:02:38.960 --> 00:02:42.479 Chris, before we go into the conversation, if you would please share 34 00:02:42.599 --> 00:02:46.680 something new and interesting that you've learned recently? Okay, I have a random 35 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:52.759 one. So this is for anybody that has house plants. So in our 36 00:02:52.800 --> 00:02:59.280 home we have approximately ten, ten, ten or so house plants and this 37 00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:00.759 is, we don't doubt, for a much higher number. This was a 38 00:03:00.840 --> 00:03:07.360 long negotiation process with my wife anyway. So there's a plant in our bedroom 39 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:13.919 that has what plant people I didn't know but I now know as Spider Mites, 40 00:03:13.960 --> 00:03:16.719 and there are these tiny, tiny, tiny bugs and I had no 41 00:03:16.800 --> 00:03:20.520 idea how to get rid of them and I thought I was going to have 42 00:03:20.560 --> 00:03:22.639 to get rid of this plant, which I sort of like. But it 43 00:03:22.639 --> 00:03:25.479 turns out you can treat the plant with a little bit of alcohol, like 44 00:03:25.520 --> 00:03:30.599 you put it on a cute tip and then you rub the leaf and then 45 00:03:30.639 --> 00:03:32.080 you watch it off, and I had no idea you could do that. 46 00:03:32.159 --> 00:03:38.319 I thought alcohol was too Abrasive for a plant, but Kudos to one of 47 00:03:38.360 --> 00:03:43.039 my coworkers, Olga, she sort of turned beyond this solution and now the 48 00:03:43.080 --> 00:03:46.960 plant is in much better shape, so it will stay. Thank you. 49 00:03:46.240 --> 00:03:50.439 Yeah, that is wonderful. And at the end of the podcast when you 50 00:03:50.479 --> 00:03:53.680 give your contact information, it's not only for Higher Ed marketing but it's also 51 00:03:54.360 --> 00:04:01.560 for growing plants. Yeah, if you tell us a little bit about your 52 00:04:01.680 --> 00:04:06.319 role at the University of Maryland? Sure, so. I'm the Assistant Dean 53 00:04:06.400 --> 00:04:13.199 for Communications and I am really fortunate to work with a super talented team of 54 00:04:13.240 --> 00:04:16.399 individuals. They are all really good at what they do. They're all committed. 55 00:04:16.920 --> 00:04:19.720 We have a pretty flat way of operating in that you know at the 56 00:04:19.800 --> 00:04:23.480 end of the day, if the decision needs to get made, the people 57 00:04:23.560 --> 00:04:27.600 that know who need to make those decisions make the decisions. But there's a 58 00:04:27.639 --> 00:04:30.399 lot of collaboration, a lot of discussion. We talk a lot about what 59 00:04:30.439 --> 00:04:34.360 we think is the right thing to do. I, as a management philosophy, 60 00:04:34.560 --> 00:04:38.240 more facilitation philosophy, have this belief that, like, you get the 61 00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:41.759 best ideas when you get the people in the room, and so I think 62 00:04:42.079 --> 00:04:46.600 my job is a couple fold. I think one is to provide strategic direction 63 00:04:46.839 --> 00:04:50.480 for the team. You know, the team, rightfully, is very focused 64 00:04:50.519 --> 00:04:53.519 on, you know, what are we gonna do this week or what are 65 00:04:53.519 --> 00:04:55.959 we gonna do this month, and I think my job as a sort of 66 00:04:56.439 --> 00:04:59.360 push us solid think about where do we want to be in six or twelve 67 00:04:59.360 --> 00:05:02.079 months and then how do we link the day they work that we're doing to 68 00:05:02.279 --> 00:05:05.600 that six to twelve month goal? I think, too, it's to be 69 00:05:05.680 --> 00:05:12.920 a strategic advisor to leadership, so if a slippery situation comes up or an 70 00:05:12.920 --> 00:05:15.879 opportunity comes up, you know, to offer the best advice from the communications 71 00:05:15.920 --> 00:05:20.120 perspective about the right way to manage it. I think three, it's to 72 00:05:20.240 --> 00:05:27.439 represent what we do both internally and externally, and I think externally it's it's 73 00:05:27.439 --> 00:05:30.680 opportunities like this. But I think internally, you know a lot of times, 74 00:05:30.680 --> 00:05:34.399 and we can talk about this more, communicators not just an education but 75 00:05:34.399 --> 00:05:39.680 but generally I think, don't sell themselves as powerfully as they could. And 76 00:05:39.720 --> 00:05:43.680 so I think part of my job is to really make sure that our internal 77 00:05:43.879 --> 00:05:46.839 internal clients, internal partners like understand what we do, understand the value that 78 00:05:46.879 --> 00:05:50.959 we provide understand how we work and understand how best to work with us and 79 00:05:51.000 --> 00:05:55.160 how we could best work with them. And I think the last thing is 80 00:05:55.560 --> 00:05:59.839 to keep an eye on what's going on in the world, not just, 81 00:06:00.120 --> 00:06:02.199 you know, in communications, but generally, like what are the trends? 82 00:06:02.279 --> 00:06:04.720 You know, what's hot, what are people talking about? Where are they 83 00:06:04.720 --> 00:06:10.079 getting information, and like seeing what we can learn for those things and bringing 84 00:06:10.079 --> 00:06:14.519 them to the table. And I think all that is sort of wrapped around 85 00:06:14.560 --> 00:06:19.600 making sure that the group feels, you know, valued, respected Um like 86 00:06:19.600 --> 00:06:24.959 we're meeting their their needs for performance on the job, like we're thinking about 87 00:06:24.959 --> 00:06:28.879 work life balance, that kind of stuff. Thank you, Chris, and 88 00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:31.480 I think you've mentioned a lot that we can touch on during our time together. 89 00:06:31.839 --> 00:06:36.680 The first thing I wanted to ask you is about differentiation. I know 90 00:06:36.720 --> 00:06:42.639 a lot of higher end marketers think it's hard to differentiate themselves from other schools 91 00:06:42.680 --> 00:06:46.839 and would love to get your philosophy on how marketers could better do that. 92 00:06:48.319 --> 00:06:50.879 So, yeah, I think you hit upon it right. You know, 93 00:06:51.279 --> 00:06:56.000 the way I try to think about it is that at the end of the 94 00:06:56.079 --> 00:06:59.199 day, you know, all of us are doing sort of the same thing. 95 00:06:59.360 --> 00:07:01.839 You know, whether you work at a small liberal arts institution or whether 96 00:07:01.879 --> 00:07:06.480 you work at a big R one engineering institution. We're all trying to like, 97 00:07:08.720 --> 00:07:11.800 sell our ideas into the marketplace. And if you think about you know 98 00:07:12.120 --> 00:07:15.920 your audience as a bull's eye. Everyone is trying to get their Arrow into 99 00:07:15.959 --> 00:07:17.360 the middle of the bull's eye. So you have to be thinking about, 100 00:07:17.800 --> 00:07:23.720 you know, what's going to make my Arrow faster or bigger or come from 101 00:07:23.720 --> 00:07:28.560 a different angle, and I think the first way to do that is research. 102 00:07:28.600 --> 00:07:32.399 You've got to have a really good understanding of what what's happening around you. 103 00:07:32.399 --> 00:07:35.759 You know. So me as an example, I need to know what 104 00:07:35.920 --> 00:07:41.279 the other big ten plus engineering schools are doing from marketing perspective and I need 105 00:07:41.319 --> 00:07:44.399 to learn from that. And if I know that we're competing for the same 106 00:07:44.439 --> 00:07:47.800 talent pool, whether it's students or faculty or staff or speakers or donors or 107 00:07:47.839 --> 00:07:53.079 whatever, I need to be thinking about how can we position ourselves in a 108 00:07:53.120 --> 00:07:58.079 way that is unique and different and more powerful. I think a second thing 109 00:07:58.439 --> 00:08:05.480 is really thinking about trends that happen outside education that can influence what we do 110 00:08:05.639 --> 00:08:09.519 education. I think it's easy, whatever industry you're in. Right if you're 111 00:08:09.519 --> 00:08:13.000 in healthcare. I think in healthcare communications, I think it's easy to get 112 00:08:13.040 --> 00:08:18.399 trapped and only looking at what's happening in healthcare communications. If you're in hospitality 113 00:08:18.399 --> 00:08:20.079 communications, I think it's easy to get trapped in looking at what the other 114 00:08:20.120 --> 00:08:24.319 big hotel chains are doing. But I think to be really good at what 115 00:08:24.360 --> 00:08:26.959 all of us do, you know, you've got to be able to take 116 00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:33.279 a step back and say what what's moving the needle these days? What is 117 00:08:33.399 --> 00:08:39.000 unique, what is different, what are people tuning into, and how can 118 00:08:39.039 --> 00:08:41.840 we jump on some of those trends or how can we utilize the lessons from 119 00:08:41.879 --> 00:08:46.679 those trends in a way that works really well for US in communications? I 120 00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:50.480 will give you a quick example, if you don't mind. So we just 121 00:08:50.600 --> 00:08:56.360 opened this fantastic facility called the idea factory that's going to be home to robotics 122 00:08:56.399 --> 00:09:01.440 research, quantum research, autonomousis research, so on and so forth, and 123 00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:05.720 at the dedication event, which was in May, we did this video, 124 00:09:07.080 --> 00:09:11.159 this kind of two to three minute video tour of the facility, and we 125 00:09:11.240 --> 00:09:16.759 talked a lot about how to do it. But I had watched hard knocks 126 00:09:16.759 --> 00:09:20.720 with the Dallas cowboys the previous summer. Now I'm a San Diego chargers fan. 127 00:09:20.799 --> 00:09:22.200 Noticed I said San Diego, not L A, but I bring this 128 00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:26.159 up because you know, it's sort of a ritual in our house. Like 129 00:09:26.200 --> 00:09:30.360 come football season we watched hard knocks and at the beginning of the second or 130 00:09:30.399 --> 00:09:35.120 third season, sorry, the second or third episode of hard knocks from the 131 00:09:35.159 --> 00:09:39.240 cowboys season, there is a drone fly through of the facility where the cowboys 132 00:09:39.240 --> 00:09:43.279 practice and it is amazing. I would encourage everybody to watch it. It's 133 00:09:43.320 --> 00:09:48.240 like three minutes and the drone just does not stop. It goes in the 134 00:09:48.320 --> 00:09:52.639 door, it goes around the practice facility, it goes in the weight room. 135 00:09:52.720 --> 00:09:56.639 It's it's incredible and I had this idea that like, why don't we 136 00:09:56.720 --> 00:10:01.600 do that for the idea factory, because, like, drones are trending, 137 00:10:01.679 --> 00:10:05.080 it's interestring, it pulls people in and and I don't get the credit for 138 00:10:05.120 --> 00:10:09.720 executing it, our videographer lead did all the hard work. But I think 139 00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:13.559 the point of the matter is the idea came from a totally different place and 140 00:10:13.600 --> 00:10:16.000 we brought it into education and used it in a way that was powerful. 141 00:10:16.080 --> 00:10:20.679 So it's just an example to say like, look around, you know, 142 00:10:20.759 --> 00:10:24.039 see what's happening around you, see what's interesting, see what's unique, see 143 00:10:24.039 --> 00:10:28.320 what turns your head, you know, and then try to pull some of 144 00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:30.919 those things in. Some of them will work, some of them won't, 145 00:10:30.960 --> 00:10:33.320 but but be open to experimenting. I think I love that idea, Chris, 146 00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:37.360 and I I think that, you know, a lot of times I'll 147 00:10:37.399 --> 00:10:39.960 tell my clients to take a look at, you know, what's what's target 148 00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:43.799 doing, what's what's happening out there in, you know, similar industries that 149 00:10:43.840 --> 00:10:48.320 are, you know, targeting you know, generation Z or or your potential 150 00:10:48.399 --> 00:10:50.759 students. I mean, you know, look at what Apple's doing. I 151 00:10:50.759 --> 00:10:54.519 mean apple has been, you know, utilizing the iphone and you know, 152 00:10:54.600 --> 00:10:56.960 back in the day when they were, you know, doing the ipod and 153 00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:01.120 things like that, they had a very nique perspective on how to market to 154 00:11:01.480 --> 00:11:05.120 the same, you know, age frame, and so I think a lot 155 00:11:05.120 --> 00:11:07.759 of times we can do that. Take a nod from what's going on in 156 00:11:07.799 --> 00:11:11.240 corporate take a nod and what's going on in social and I think there's a 157 00:11:11.279 --> 00:11:15.720 lot of opportunities there that. Many times, I think as higher ed marketers, 158 00:11:16.080 --> 00:11:18.240 we kind of tend to start looking too closely to our belly buttons and 159 00:11:18.279 --> 00:11:24.320 not really looking out beyond the education area. I think part of it too, 160 00:11:24.399 --> 00:11:26.519 is is thinking about the work that we do in a different frame. 161 00:11:26.840 --> 00:11:30.840 So, as an example, you know, I think a lot of times 162 00:11:30.919 --> 00:11:33.519 again, regardless of what aspect of communications you're in, you know, if 163 00:11:33.559 --> 00:11:37.639 you're in telecom, you think about you know, we're gonna, we're gonna 164 00:11:37.879 --> 00:11:43.000 market a telecom story we're telling, we're selling telecom products, or if you're 165 00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:45.600 in education, you know we're trying to get people to come here. And 166 00:11:45.720 --> 00:11:48.559 and that's true. But I think again it's like, okay, take that 167 00:11:48.639 --> 00:11:50.399 step back and say to yourself, well, what are we really doing here? 168 00:11:50.840 --> 00:11:54.799 and to me, I think, regardless of whether you're in again, 169 00:11:54.840 --> 00:11:58.159 you know, telecom or hotels or communications for education, like we all are, 170 00:11:58.200 --> 00:12:03.080 like you're selling an idea, right, and the idea for us in 171 00:12:03.159 --> 00:12:09.919 engineering education is that this is a place where you can have access to, 172 00:12:09.080 --> 00:12:13.559 you know, the most cutting edge, interesting people, research facilities that are 173 00:12:13.559 --> 00:12:16.799 going to give you the tools to go change the world, like that's the 174 00:12:16.879 --> 00:12:20.440 idea. And if you step back and say to yourself, okay, so 175 00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:24.159 how do companies, how do it think takes or how do other education institutions 176 00:12:24.200 --> 00:12:30.799 sell ideas. That's really there are probably plenty of people to do that, 177 00:12:30.879 --> 00:12:33.120 but I would challenge people to say, like, think about it that way, 178 00:12:33.159 --> 00:12:37.360 like you're you're selling an idea, you're selling a concept and that is 179 00:12:37.399 --> 00:12:41.919 the concept. And then what do you need to do tactically to drive that? 180 00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:43.720 If that makes sense. It does make sense and you know, one 181 00:12:43.720 --> 00:12:46.639 of the one of the shows I enjoy watching sometimes when I'm traveling is shark 182 00:12:46.679 --> 00:12:50.879 tank, and I think that you know the idea of how they're pitching their 183 00:12:50.919 --> 00:12:56.000 ideas, how they're expressing themselves with these new things. I think there's a 184 00:12:56.000 --> 00:12:58.919 lot that can be gathered from that and learned. Um, I know you 185 00:12:58.960 --> 00:13:03.120 had referenced the Reality Show The pitch from a MC uh in our early pre 186 00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:07.559 pre conversation and I since then I've watched a few episodes of that and I 187 00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:13.519 think that's that gets some different brain cells moving as well. And maybe tell 188 00:13:13.519 --> 00:13:16.120 me a little bit about your experience with watching that, because I think you 189 00:13:16.159 --> 00:13:20.080 applied some of the thinking with that on that particular pilot episode. Yeah, 190 00:13:20.120 --> 00:13:24.399 so, first of all I would encourage everybody, as a laundry folding show, 191 00:13:24.519 --> 00:13:28.399 to watch the pitch if you don't know about the pitch, it's a 192 00:13:28.440 --> 00:13:31.639 show on AMC that ran right about the mad men time frames. So you 193 00:13:31.679 --> 00:13:35.279 know, everyone knows about mad men and if you you don't, then stop 194 00:13:35.320 --> 00:13:39.759 watching right now and go watch mad men and then come back to this podcast. 195 00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:43.480 So you can probably want stuff. Um. The pitch is the show 196 00:13:43.600 --> 00:13:48.759 is a reality show about, Um, you know, marketing firms, advertising 197 00:13:48.759 --> 00:13:52.559 agencies, and the concept basically is that there's a client at the beginning of 198 00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:58.120 the show that's got a marketing problem or an advertising problem. Two advertising agencies 199 00:13:58.159 --> 00:14:03.480 are brought in to try and figure out a solution. The show catalogs all 200 00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:07.000 of the creative development they do and then at the end they both pitch and 201 00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:09.840 somebody wins. The reason, you know, clearly I like it because this 202 00:14:09.879 --> 00:14:13.399 is what we do and it's interesting. But the other reason I like it 203 00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:18.360 is like you get a bird's eye view as to how other people approach the 204 00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:22.279 same challenges, you know. So A it's a learning it's a learning opportunity 205 00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:26.600 from the standpoint of watching other people be creative, watching how other teams work, 206 00:14:26.960 --> 00:14:31.320 watching how people collaborate, collaborate and like you could draw things that you 207 00:14:31.360 --> 00:14:33.200 think irrelevant into your work, but to the point. You know, you 208 00:14:33.240 --> 00:14:37.960 were just making Bart. So the first episode, and I'm gonna have to 209 00:14:37.960 --> 00:14:41.559 give a spoiler, I'm so sorry, but the first episode is about subway 210 00:14:41.960 --> 00:14:45.759 and you know, subway is in this episode really trying to think about how 211 00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:50.440 to sell it to breakfast products. And two firms come in and one firm 212 00:14:50.519 --> 00:14:54.440 does this whole like Zombie thing, right, they do this, Um, 213 00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:58.840 they do it. It's called ZAMBIES. It's like breakfast and zombies, zambies, 214 00:14:58.919 --> 00:15:01.679 and it's it's rate. It's first of all, it's great today, 215 00:15:01.720 --> 00:15:05.960 I think, but it was at the time when all the zombies were the 216 00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:09.360 rage and, like you know, so it's timeline. This other firm came 217 00:15:09.399 --> 00:15:13.000 in and they did this campaign that, if I remember it was called like 218 00:15:13.120 --> 00:15:18.279 let's remake breakfast. And you know, you watch the show and I admit 219 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:22.240 I was convinced the Zombie firm was gonna win. Now, maybe the shows 220 00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:24.679 that I'm totally like shower was all into that trend or whatever. But the 221 00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:30.679 other firm one and after the show Tony Pace, who was the guy at 222 00:15:30.679 --> 00:15:33.159 that point that was the CMO for subway, talked about you know, you 223 00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:39.240 gotta go with the durable idea, and it really stuck with me, you 224 00:15:39.279 --> 00:15:43.039 know, because I think what we have to be able to do is find 225 00:15:43.039 --> 00:15:50.000 an idea that has both breakthrough and durable, you know, something that punches 226 00:15:50.080 --> 00:15:52.240 through, punches up, gets out of the clutter, gets into the center 227 00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:54.600 of that bowls light, whatever you want to say, and at the same 228 00:15:54.639 --> 00:16:00.200 time like sticks with people. And again I think it goes back to at 229 00:16:00.279 --> 00:16:03.600 original point we were talking about tenners so minutes ago. At some level, 230 00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:07.639 you know, all of the work that we do is similar, just like 231 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:11.519 all of the work that hotel marketing is similar, just like all of the 232 00:16:11.559 --> 00:16:15.960 work that auto marketing is similar. So, like, what are you gonna 233 00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:18.679 say that's gonna make you stick apart? And I think actually the more fund 234 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:22.000 and on a question is like how are you going to say it that's different? 235 00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:26.039 You know, think about the Lexus or infinity commercials. When they first 236 00:16:26.080 --> 00:16:30.639 hit. They were really unique and like people tuned in just because the delivery 237 00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:33.639 method was really unique. That's great. Yeah, I think there's so many 238 00:16:33.639 --> 00:16:36.919 ways that we can kind of look at that and I agree with you that 239 00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:41.639 I think sometimes looking outside of our own bubble is so valuable and I think 240 00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:45.679 that's a great idea. We talk a lot about it on the show. 241 00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:49.759 Schools are really struggling today that make the same at spend work. CPMS are 242 00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:55.279 up eighty nine year over a year. On facebook and instagram. Our College 243 00:16:55.279 --> 00:16:59.799 clients are no longer looking for rented audiences. They're looking for an own community 244 00:16:59.799 --> 00:17:03.000 where they can engage students even before they apply. This is why Zemi has 245 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:07.400 become so crucial for our clients, with over one million students, close to 246 00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:12.039 ten thou five star ratings, consistently ranked as one of the top social lapps 247 00:17:12.440 --> 00:17:17.720 and recently one of Apple's hot APPs of the week. There simply isn't anything 248 00:17:17.720 --> 00:17:21.039 out there like it, and we have seen it all. Zemy not only 249 00:17:21.079 --> 00:17:25.240 provides the best space for student engagement, but the most unique and action Wal 250 00:17:25.359 --> 00:17:30.759 data for the one sixty college and university partners. We know firsthand from our 251 00:17:30.799 --> 00:17:34.000 clients that Zem me is a must have strategy for Gen z check them out 252 00:17:34.039 --> 00:17:41.240 now at colleges dot Zem dot com. That's colleges dot Z E M E 253 00:17:41.519 --> 00:17:47.480 dot Com. And yes, tell him Barton Troy sent you. If you 254 00:17:47.599 --> 00:17:52.680 have a conversation with Chris, his overall value that he will bring to that 255 00:17:52.799 --> 00:18:00.519 conversation is convincing marketers that they should speak and think more strategically instead of tactically. 256 00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:03.759 I think you summed it up in a nutshell. I mean, you 257 00:18:03.799 --> 00:18:07.599 know, Troy, you should print t shirts and just like like that's say, 258 00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:11.160 just that right, and I will say I um, I will say 259 00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:17.839 I learned this lesson from experience. So I have been in the tactical I 260 00:18:17.839 --> 00:18:21.839 had been in the tactical camp for many years and over the course of my 261 00:18:21.880 --> 00:18:25.240 career I figured out why the strategic camp is more power for one and how 262 00:18:25.240 --> 00:18:27.359 to get there. But but here's what I mean. I think that we 263 00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:33.880 in communications do so much good work and I see communications, and I think 264 00:18:33.880 --> 00:18:38.920 other people probably do too, as a business function, not necessarily a service 265 00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:44.559 function, and I don't mean business in the big B like we're here to 266 00:18:44.599 --> 00:18:48.279 make the money. I mean like we're here to help drive an organization forward, 267 00:18:49.279 --> 00:18:52.680 and we will always have a service capacity in that. You know, 268 00:18:52.920 --> 00:18:56.200 if something comes up that's immediate, which it always does in our field, 269 00:18:56.480 --> 00:19:00.559 we jump on that thing, whether it's an opportunity or a lunge. But 270 00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:04.160 a lot of times what happens I think for communicators across the board, not 271 00:19:04.279 --> 00:19:10.799 just an education, is that we think about ourselves in this tactical sense. 272 00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:15.079 So somebody says to us, you know, here's a prime example. You 273 00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:17.920 know, a communicator might say, I want to get us in the New 274 00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:22.160 York Times and you know, leadership might say, well, that sounds great. 275 00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:26.759 You know why? And some communicators, and used to be me, 276 00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:30.319 would say well, because it's The New York Times, it's a really important 277 00:19:30.680 --> 00:19:33.400 media outlet, and that is a true statement. But that is a totally 278 00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:38.759 tactical way of working at it and the people that are outside communications like they 279 00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:42.880 don't think tactically and they don't understand things the way we understand them. You 280 00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:47.119 know, it's it's the same thing as if I set to somebody in leadership. 281 00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:52.599 You know, we got five thousand impressions on this particular ad that inside 282 00:19:52.599 --> 00:19:56.880 a communications meeting. That has value. But like if I'm going to go 283 00:19:56.960 --> 00:20:00.160 talk to someone in leadership or someone in another part of the organization, what 284 00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:04.240 they want to know is, number one, how our work relates to the 285 00:20:04.279 --> 00:20:10.680 strategic goals or the strategic plan for the organization. And too, they want 286 00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:15.960 to know the impact that it had not the reach, the impact, you 287 00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:19.640 know, impressions is reached, people taking action is impact. And so to 288 00:20:19.759 --> 00:20:26.079 me, I think in communications, in marketing, it's really important that we 289 00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:32.799 we present ourselves in a way that is strategic and linked to the overall goals 290 00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:37.039 of the organization. And I think that's especially true in engineering, you know, 291 00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:41.240 just like it is if you work at a pharmaceutical company or you work 292 00:20:41.240 --> 00:20:44.960 at a telecom company, you know Um or you work, you work in 293 00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:51.519 healthcare and education, education, healthcare, those people that work in those disciplines 294 00:20:51.720 --> 00:20:56.319 are process oriented thinkers, right, you know, linear, process oriented thinkers. 295 00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:00.799 Communicators, for the most part, are pecular thinkers, and there's nothing 296 00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:04.039 wrong with that. It takes both to like drive the world forward. But 297 00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:11.200 you can't communicate the work you're doing this way to an audience that thinks this 298 00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:15.680 way. So you've got to find ways to make your work, to describe 299 00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:19.079 your work, excuse me, in a way that is linear and process Orient 300 00:21:19.160 --> 00:21:25.000 and has links back to bigger tent poles and just we're putting up a twitter 301 00:21:25.039 --> 00:21:30.640 post. Sorry, I totally wanted to sell box. No, that's exactly 302 00:21:30.680 --> 00:21:33.359 I mean. That's that's so important because I, you know, I see 303 00:21:33.400 --> 00:21:38.640 so many times, and I think that Um agencies that support higher education are 304 00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:42.640 guilty of this as well, where I'll see reports from different Um, you 305 00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:47.519 know it's a digital agency or whatever, and they so focused on the you 306 00:21:47.559 --> 00:21:51.319 know, the clicks or the or the you know, impressions or all the 307 00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:52.920 other things, the things you just talked about. But at the end of 308 00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:56.519 the day, I think that, you know, as Higher Ed marketers, 309 00:21:56.559 --> 00:22:00.240 we owe it to ourselves to go to that level of strategy and the strategic 310 00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:04.839 level of thinking and say, how did we move the needle today? And, 311 00:22:04.960 --> 00:22:07.440 like you said, it's like, you know, what is the impact 312 00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:11.960 rather than what's that you know, impression and Um you know, the more 313 00:22:11.960 --> 00:22:15.400 people we have on a school visit or the more people that we have that 314 00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:21.200 have actually taken the called action of applying or, you know, we requesting 315 00:22:21.240 --> 00:22:26.319 more information or depositing or whatever metric we want to use. We've got to 316 00:22:26.359 --> 00:22:30.279 be able to measure that impact and tie that directly back to the tactics that 317 00:22:30.319 --> 00:22:33.759 we did and I think that when we can do that, that's when strategy 318 00:22:33.799 --> 00:22:37.599 starts to happen and when we can be strategic because, you know, we 319 00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:41.279 can spend all day long. You know what I call moving the deck chairs 320 00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:42.799 on the titanic, and it's just like, you know, we have these 321 00:22:42.839 --> 00:22:45.839 impressions, we have this and you know, Oh, isn't it great, 322 00:22:47.000 --> 00:22:48.799 but at the end of the day, if we don't have students showing up 323 00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:55.720 and, you know, and and and moving the the mission of the school 324 00:22:55.759 --> 00:23:00.119 forward, we're just we're just, we're just messing around and we're just doing 325 00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:03.359 a lot of busy work. Yeah, there's a good there's a quit good 326 00:23:03.400 --> 00:23:06.240 test that, you know, I would encourage people to use and I'm sure 327 00:23:06.279 --> 00:23:07.640 there's a lot of the audience that's already using it. You know, when 328 00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:12.440 you're thinking about doing something, whatever this something is, it's easy to ask 329 00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:18.079 yourself what you're doing and it's easy to let me rephrase that. It is 330 00:23:18.160 --> 00:23:22.920 often easier to ask yourself what, but step back and say why. Why 331 00:23:23.079 --> 00:23:27.200 is the relevant question. Are we doing this to drive the strategic plan forward? 332 00:23:27.359 --> 00:23:32.200 Are we doing this because it links to some other higher initiative that we're 333 00:23:32.200 --> 00:23:36.119 trying to launch? Like make sure you've got a good answer to the why, 334 00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:40.319 not only for yourself so that you know what you're doing, but so 335 00:23:40.359 --> 00:23:42.519 that you can explain it to other people in a way that makes sense to 336 00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:47.240 them. Now I love that idea. I love that start with. Why? 337 00:23:47.359 --> 00:23:51.640 I think that's a great way to go with that. There's a book 338 00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:56.759 with the title plane to win that Chris is a big believer in and recommends 339 00:23:56.799 --> 00:24:00.359 to marketers that he speaks to Chris. What is it about this book that 340 00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:06.960 makes it so impactful? So I was first introduced to this book several years 341 00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:11.759 ago when I worked for Nova designs, which is a global biotech company, 342 00:24:11.799 --> 00:24:18.000 and the book basically, at its most foundational level, is about corporate strategy. 343 00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:21.799 But really what the book is about, at least to me as reading 344 00:24:21.799 --> 00:24:26.160 it as a communications person, is how do you think and communicate in a 345 00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:32.559 strategic way? So, as an example, you know most people, let 346 00:24:32.559 --> 00:24:37.000 me rephrase that, there are, there's there's an opportunity in communications when you're 347 00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:40.839 putting together a new initiative, like to think about you know your goal, 348 00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:45.119 okay, you know here's the goal, you know here's the objectives. Great, 349 00:24:45.720 --> 00:24:49.640 but what this book, I think, really forces you to think about 350 00:24:49.720 --> 00:24:52.599 is like, can you think one level up? So, in other words, 351 00:24:52.599 --> 00:24:56.920 what's the ambition? The goally ambition are different, right. The goal 352 00:24:57.000 --> 00:25:00.480 is what you want to get done with the particular effort that you're undertaking. 353 00:25:00.759 --> 00:25:06.400 The ambition is like if everything went to plan, if you had all the 354 00:25:06.440 --> 00:25:10.640 people, all the resources, all the time that you needed, what would 355 00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:14.640 the outcome look like? And the reason it's important to map that out is 356 00:25:14.680 --> 00:25:21.960 because it really makes you think about ultimately what you're driving for, because ultimately 357 00:25:22.240 --> 00:25:26.720 you're not necessarily just driving for that goal. You're driving to move the needle 358 00:25:26.799 --> 00:25:30.119 in some bigger way, like we've just been talking about. And and I 359 00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:36.079 think what the book forces you to think about is, how do I get 360 00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:40.839 into that mindset and then how do I communicate in that mindset, you know, 361 00:25:40.920 --> 00:25:44.759 and it's a really interesting read. Um, so I would encourage folks. 362 00:25:44.759 --> 00:25:47.160 You know, I know that we don't all have a lot of free 363 00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:51.079 time, but you know, if if you have downtime and books on like 364 00:25:51.160 --> 00:25:55.079 corporate strategy like that are interesting for you, check it out. There's a 365 00:25:55.119 --> 00:26:00.319 process that it talks through about how to think in a in a strategy Egypt, 366 00:26:00.359 --> 00:26:03.759 way from like big too much more focused, and there's a way that 367 00:26:03.880 --> 00:26:08.039 I found to adapt it for communications that works really well and I'm sure other 368 00:26:08.039 --> 00:26:11.440 people will be able to do the same, but it is. It is 369 00:26:11.480 --> 00:26:15.279 really good in helping to train people to think in the ways we've been talking 370 00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:18.799 about for the last couple of minutes. there. That's great. I think 371 00:26:18.839 --> 00:26:23.039 that resources like that Um that. I think that you know that. That 372 00:26:23.079 --> 00:26:26.119 book, I think, is a great way kind of moving yourself up on 373 00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:30.160 the ambition. But then also, like we talked earlier about, you know, 374 00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:33.279 the pitch and other looking for those places outside of what we do every 375 00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:37.119 day to kind of challenge us to move, move up the ladder for strategy. 376 00:26:37.119 --> 00:26:40.799 I think is is so critical. So that's that's great, good, 377 00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:44.240 good, and and there's an I mean there's another relevant example on that. 378 00:26:44.279 --> 00:26:47.160 You know. Okay, so a lot of times when let me again rephrase 379 00:26:47.200 --> 00:26:49.200 that. Sometimes I don't want to say I don't I don't want to overgeneralize. 380 00:26:49.640 --> 00:26:53.799 Sometimes we in communications have this tendency that we think about, you know, 381 00:26:53.920 --> 00:26:59.519 okay, here's our strategy, you know, here's the audience and then 382 00:26:59.519 --> 00:27:02.319 here the pctics we're under deploy. You know, first of all those should 383 00:27:02.359 --> 00:27:06.319 really be flipped. The audience should dictate the strategy. But the second thing 384 00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:10.759 is that sometimes we get in this this mode where we go like regardless of 385 00:27:10.799 --> 00:27:12.759 the different audience segments, we're going to run the same strategy and the same 386 00:27:12.759 --> 00:27:15.799 tactics and like that. Again, that's not a strategic way of looking at 387 00:27:15.839 --> 00:27:18.680 it. So you've got to say to your stuff, okay, for for 388 00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:22.240 this particular effort, whatever the effort is, there's three distinct audiences. If 389 00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:26.519 there are three distinct audiences, we need to have three distinct strategies and three 390 00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:32.519 distinct lines of tactics, three sets of deliberals, three sets of measures. 391 00:27:32.519 --> 00:27:33.519 That, like, that's the only way, you know, you really move 392 00:27:33.599 --> 00:27:41.039 the needle, and it's it's more granular than I think sometimes we force ourselves 393 00:27:41.079 --> 00:27:45.759 to go. But you know, to to Bart's point earlier about like impact, 394 00:27:47.279 --> 00:27:52.160 it's the only way to really make impact is to align the very particular 395 00:27:52.200 --> 00:27:56.759 things with the very particular audience. So it just again, it goes back 396 00:27:56.799 --> 00:27:59.519 to the idea from the book and it goes back to the thing we talked 397 00:27:59.519 --> 00:28:03.640 about early. You're about being strategic versus tactical. The more you can force 398 00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:07.640 yourself to be granular and linear and link back to big things, the more 399 00:28:07.880 --> 00:28:15.880 detailed and well thought your strategy will go. Chris, we end every episode 400 00:28:15.880 --> 00:28:19.240 by asking this question to our guest. If there's a piece of advice or 401 00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:26.759 an idea that you could share with marketers that would have immediate impact for their 402 00:28:26.839 --> 00:28:32.240 career or life or their processes, what would that be? Can I share 403 00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:37.839 it too? Absolutely all right. Um, one would be and I am 404 00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:41.839 sure there are plenty of really, really good folks out there doing this already, 405 00:28:41.880 --> 00:28:45.319 but it's just, I think, a good reminder. Do everything you 406 00:28:45.400 --> 00:28:51.519 can to put your team's Co workers, student workers, all of it, 407 00:28:52.240 --> 00:28:56.279 in a position where they've got good work life balance, where they feel valued, 408 00:28:56.119 --> 00:29:00.279 Um, where they have room to do what it is that they do 409 00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:04.480 best. You know, I I there are plenty of things that I think 410 00:29:04.640 --> 00:29:07.400 I do well as a as a leader. There's plenty of things that I 411 00:29:07.759 --> 00:29:11.079 know I need to work on as a leader, but I think one of 412 00:29:11.079 --> 00:29:12.839 the things that I try to do is like just get out of my people's 413 00:29:12.839 --> 00:29:17.640 way, like removal roadblocks, and like let them do what they're good at 414 00:29:17.640 --> 00:29:22.119 doing, and I would just encourage everybody as much as you can do that. 415 00:29:22.319 --> 00:29:26.119 It just you know, you've got great people, let him work. 416 00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:32.400 Second, much more tactically, keep a folder on your desk of great ideas. 417 00:29:33.240 --> 00:29:34.680 You know it can be things that you pull out of a magazine. 418 00:29:36.200 --> 00:29:40.799 It can be I mean my my wife and I were at this restaurant in 419 00:29:40.799 --> 00:29:44.000 New York and they had this coaster that I thought, from a design perspective, 420 00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:45.640 is really cool. I took the coaster. You know, they looked 421 00:29:45.680 --> 00:29:51.319 at me a little nuts when I told them. You know, Um, 422 00:29:51.359 --> 00:29:53.400 it can be things that you see online and pronout. It can be photos 423 00:29:53.400 --> 00:29:59.319 you take and just pronount. But like have a a physical not not a 424 00:29:59.359 --> 00:30:06.240 computer. I've like have a physical idea folder and anytime you're thinking, you 425 00:30:06.279 --> 00:30:11.799 know, let me rephrase that, once once every regular interval, whatever that 426 00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:14.519 is for you, once every two weeks or whatever, once a month, 427 00:30:14.640 --> 00:30:18.160 go in there and thumb through it. Invariably you will see something that will 428 00:30:18.200 --> 00:30:22.400 spur a thought. It may not work for you at that particular time. 429 00:30:22.519 --> 00:30:23.759 You made his bookmark it going. I'm going to come back to that, 430 00:30:23.839 --> 00:30:30.000 but it is the best way I have found to like very practically, going 431 00:30:30.039 --> 00:30:34.039 back to the beginning of our conversation, find things that help set you apart. 432 00:30:34.400 --> 00:30:37.519 It's easy to like say that get lost, but if you make it 433 00:30:37.599 --> 00:30:42.359 really practical and really easy, it can actually be kind of a fun journey. 434 00:30:45.440 --> 00:30:47.839 That's great, Chris. I have to tell you that you brought that 435 00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:52.039 up in our pre interview and everybody can't see it because we aren't on video, 436 00:30:52.440 --> 00:30:55.839 but I have. I have created my idea folder and I've already started 437 00:30:55.839 --> 00:30:59.559 putting things in it this past week. So thanks for that real practical to 438 00:30:59.599 --> 00:31:03.839 do it, Chris. For any of our listeners that would like to reach 439 00:31:03.880 --> 00:31:07.000 out to you, what would be the best way for them to do that? 440 00:31:07.960 --> 00:31:11.480 You are welcome to email me. My email is C S Bender B 441 00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:15.519 E N D E R at U, M D dot e D U, 442 00:31:17.200 --> 00:31:18.799 or you can hit me up on Linkedin. Either one of those works. 443 00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:23.880 Thank you, Chris. You are so fun to talk to and to listen 444 00:31:23.960 --> 00:31:30.039 to, and thank you for sharing the impactful wisdom that you did. By 445 00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:33.440 all means. I really appreciate the opportunity to chat with everybody and I'm gonna 446 00:31:33.480 --> 00:31:40.200 go check on my house plan. Bart, what are your final thoughts? 447 00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:45.200 I just wanna again thank Chris for being on the show today. I think 448 00:31:45.240 --> 00:31:49.079 he's just brought a wealth of experience and knowledge to the to the PODCAST, 449 00:31:49.119 --> 00:31:52.160 and I'm grateful for that. This is one of those episodes that we didn't 450 00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:56.519 necessarily get into tactics of hey, here's six of the ways that you can 451 00:31:56.559 --> 00:32:00.759 do social media better, or here's, you know, nine ways to better 452 00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:04.799 do your messaging. Those are tactics and I think those have places and a 453 00:32:04.799 --> 00:32:07.240 lot of our episodes have that. But one of the things I think that 454 00:32:07.279 --> 00:32:09.599 this episode particularly did that I that I really value, and I've I've had 455 00:32:09.640 --> 00:32:13.920 that from other guests as well, is is taking us to that next level 456 00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:16.440 up of of the why, and I think that Chris made some really good 457 00:32:16.480 --> 00:32:21.799 points about, you know, really starting with that why and and even even 458 00:32:21.839 --> 00:32:23.920 to the point of, you know, why do we do this podcast? 459 00:32:23.960 --> 00:32:27.799 What? Why are we doing what we're doing? It's it's to really impact 460 00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:31.279 hired marketers and and everyone who's listening, to to do our job better, 461 00:32:31.759 --> 00:32:37.440 to Um, have a greater voice at the table. Um. You know, 462 00:32:37.519 --> 00:32:38.680 we've talked to a lot of different people, whether it's, you know, 463 00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:44.319 Ethan Braden at purdue or Jamie Hunt at at Miami, these different chief 464 00:32:44.319 --> 00:32:50.039 marketing officers, and how quickly they say how important it is for for marketers 465 00:32:50.079 --> 00:32:52.480 to have a voice at the table and to really be able to represent that 466 00:32:52.559 --> 00:33:00.839 well and and be able to help everyone understand that that what we do does 467 00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:05.519 move business forward, as as Chris kind of illustrated in there. So I 468 00:33:05.559 --> 00:33:08.319 think that's really important and it's also very important, as we really become more 469 00:33:08.319 --> 00:33:15.000 strategic, that we show how our work has strategic impact rather than just, 470 00:33:15.200 --> 00:33:17.240 you know, sometimes we get kind of UH. I always we've always talked 471 00:33:17.240 --> 00:33:21.559 about it before and my company is, you know, we like to wear 472 00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:23.160 the Beret sometimes and it's like, okay, you know, it's it's fun 473 00:33:23.160 --> 00:33:28.200 to wear the Beret and when the when the art awards and the design awards, 474 00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:30.480 but at the end of the day, are we impacting the bottom line 475 00:33:30.519 --> 00:33:36.160 of our institutions and are we really moving forward what the institution is all about? 476 00:33:36.200 --> 00:33:38.240 And I really think that was some great things that that Chris brought up 477 00:33:38.599 --> 00:33:42.960 and I really love the idea of of really kind of moving beyond just our 478 00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:45.079 goals and and looking at ambition. You know what what is at the end 479 00:33:45.079 --> 00:33:47.920 of the day that when we put our heads on our pillows at night, 480 00:33:49.319 --> 00:33:51.279 what are we most proud of that we can say, you know what, 481 00:33:51.599 --> 00:33:54.880 this really happened and this was something that that my team was able to do 482 00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:59.200 and and make a big, big impact, and not only the lives of 483 00:33:59.200 --> 00:34:01.279 our institution, it in the lives of the students that we serve. So, 484 00:34:01.480 --> 00:34:06.160 Chris, thanks again for for bringing your wisdom to the show and you're 485 00:34:06.160 --> 00:34:08.480 welcome back anytime. Thank you very much. I hope everyone's you know, 486 00:34:08.639 --> 00:34:13.000 learn something and I'm looking forward to learning from your other guests and your audience 487 00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:19.239 as well. Great thanks. The Higher End Marketer podcast is brought to you 488 00:34:19.280 --> 00:34:23.920 by Kaylor solutions and education, marketing and branding agency and by Think, patented, 489 00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:30.480 a Marketing Execution Company combining print and digital assets for higher impact within your 490 00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:35.800 communications. On behalf of Bark Kaylor, I'm troy singer. Thank you for 491 00:34:35.920 --> 00:34:42.760 joining us. You've been listening to the Higher Ed Marketer. To ensure that 492 00:34:42.800 --> 00:34:45.840 you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. 493 00:34:46.719 --> 00:34:50.920 If you're listening with apple PODCASTS, we'd love for you to leave a 494 00:34:51.000 --> 00:34:53.400 quick rating of the show. Simply tap the number of stars do you think 495 00:34:53.440 --> 00:35:00.480 the podcast deserves. UNTIL NEXT TIME, all L