Transcript
WEBVTT
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You're listening to the Higher Ed Marketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals in
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higher education. This show will tackle
all sorts of questions related to student recruitment,
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dontor relations, marketing trends, new
technologies and so much more. If
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you are looking for conversations centered around
where the industry is going, this podcast
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is for you. Let's get into
the show. Welcome to the Higher Ed
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Marketer podcast. I'm troy singer,
along with Bart Taylor, and this week
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the conversation is marketing and utilizing athletics
for stronger enrollment, and I know this
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is something that Bart feels strongly about. Today we speak with Jim Carr,
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who's the president and CEO of the
National Association of Inter Collegiate Athletics, also
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known as in a I A,
and Bart, I think he gives us
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a lot of tips and a lot
of information that some colleges are probably not
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thinking on how to utilize athletics to
grow their enrollment and also to hone in
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on mission fit students. Yeah,
I think you're exactly right on that,
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troy, and the thing I like
about the conversation we have with with Jim
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today is in AIA is focused on
kind of that small college athletic group.
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So most of their members are,
I think Jim says, around eighteen hundred
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students and so and I know that
small schools rely a lot on recruitment of
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athletes for the overall, you know, class fit and to get in there.
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And so jim kind of talks a
little bit about how an AIA is
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supporting their member schools with data,
with with resources and with ways of looking
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at athletics a little bit differently and
helping the schools do that successfully. I
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think there's a lot of good tips
and tricks if you've already got an athletic
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program in your school, on how
you might be able to tweak some things
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to get a better marketing and better
engagement between recruiters and and and coaches.
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But overall I just really like Jim's
approached everything in the way that they kind
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of do things at Anaia. Here's
our conversation with JIM CAR WE WELCOME JIM
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card to the conversation, who is
the CEO and president of the National Association
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of Intercollegiate Athletics, otherwise known as
in a IA, to the Higher Ed
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Marketing podcast. Jim If you could
please introduce us to you and also the
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in AIA. Yeah, thanks,
Troy. Jim Carr, president of a
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A. I have been in that
positions just two thousand and six I've been
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around for a while. Any I
is membership association made up of roughly two
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hundred and fifty colleges and universities across
the country, primarily in the Midwest,
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southeast and our West, and our
membership is made up of about eighty percent
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private institutions, and those institutions on
average of aboubout eighteen hundred and two thousand
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students. Are Really Count on athletics
to be a big driver of enrollment and
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just a big part of the campus, and so we're there to support them
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in all their efforts, especially to
run championships and make sure that student athletes
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on those campuses are eligible to compete. Thank you. And the reason why
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we ask you to be on the
show is to get tips for our listeners
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on how athletics can be used to
strengthen or increase enrollment, and that's a
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conversation that I believe you have on
an ongoing basis with the presidents and leaders
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in the schools that are members of
in AIA. Is that correct? Yeah,
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we do, and it's a conversation
that has grown with frequency and importance.
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I think over the last decade or
so. It used to be something
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that was talked about nearly as much
in terms of the impact that athletes can
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have on enrollment, but I think
schools and leaders of those institutions of particular
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just growing to understand and appreciate the
importance of it. So, you know,
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we talked at every leadership meeting about
it in some regard and we've been
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created a major initiative called reternal athletics. That's that brings in a lot of
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data and assists our schools to not
only understand the potential opportunities and how things
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are working on their own campus,
but then people to compare that with the
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two hundred and fifty other institutions around
the country and and make some make some
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decisions based on on those data.
That's good to know. Jem I'm working
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with several organizations, you know,
the different different groups that support especially private
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education, and I think that shared
data is so important. I think sometimes
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it feels like, why, I'm
out here by myself, what's it like?
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And you kind of think, Oh, I'm competing against that other school
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down the down the road that we
you know that we compete in athletics with,
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but a lot of times we're not
really competing against one another, as
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private schools were competing against the the
other alternatives that the community college is,
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the publics and things like that,
and so the bigger republics, I should
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say, and so I think that
I think that's interesting. I mean,
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what are some of the things that
you kind of tell the schools as far
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as enrollment and and I guess part
of it is even retention? Talk through
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that a little bit, because I
think athletics does provide a little bit of
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a unique solution for some of that. Yeah, you know, we talked
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a lot about and I guess I
first should say that we're only in the
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second year of collecting data from all
of our schools. We had a couple
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of years of a pilot program.
We had eight institutions than forty, but
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this is the we're completing the second
year of a full data set. So
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we're still somewhat is in its empathy. But the things that we've concentrated so
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far was some of our research breeves
and some of the information we're sending out
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or we've been really focusing and retention, as you mentioned, and just trying
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to analyze things like what what size
of a roster and various sports as kind
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of a sweet spot for retention.
And if you get too large, is
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that, I was retention go down
and vice versa, if you're too small,
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what's impact there? And then in
terms of enrollment, things like the
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impact of financial aid or competitive success
out of those impact the ability to attract
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student athletes onto your campus. And
so right now it's because two years does
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not make a trend in most people's
eyes. Were we're we're speculating a little
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bit and then really showing here's our
here's our theory around those kinds of things.
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But is that as we have more
longitudinal data, I think it's going
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to get even stronger and stronger.
But at a minimum it allows leaders on
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campuses to take a step back and
say, I wonder and we thought about
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the maybe I thought about the appropriate
roster size for us, but I didn't
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have any data to help support that
decisions. And now they're starting to think
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about it in that way. Of
course, on their own campus they should
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have data going back even farther to
help them analyze it on their own own
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campus. I like that approach because
I think that it's so important. I
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mean, I think so many times
historically colleges, universities have kind of seen
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athletics, as you know, that's
that's over there, that's the that's the
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ads responsibility. And I'm noticing a
lot more schools are partnering between the Athletics
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Department and the and the admissions and
enrollment department to just start to and to
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degree student life with retention, but
to really just make sure that everyone's talking
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with one another. I know that, you know, a lot of time
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schools, especially smaller privates, rely
a lot on the you know, thirty,
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forty, fifty percent on the recruitment
of the coaches for to fill their
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classes. But talk a little bit
about, you know, how how these
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how departments can be more facilatory with
each other, because I think that's a
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challenge at some schools face. Yeah, I think it's a great, great
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point, Bart and for us most
of our data in that area is going
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of anecdotal at this point. We're
trying to gather various models and talk with
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people about what does what does work
best and how do you how do you
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think about, as you said,
essentially the cooperation between admissions, financial aid
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and the Athletic Department, of the
VP of enrollment coming in to that equation?
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And think the schools that are having
the most success in athletics, and
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by that I don't know Sary meaning
competition, but the right the most success
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in terms of attracting students, do
it in a way this consistent with the
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discount rate they're trying to keep and
in retaining those students at a high percentage.
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Those those schools tend to have great
integration between the admissions and the enrollment
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side of the House and athletics,
and it can be structured in many different
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ways. Some even put their afflets
department most of the coaches and bed them
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in the enrollment area, where others
just have cross functional integration in some way.
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So there's a lot of a lot
of ways to do it. But
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the schools who are are not very
effective that at that crosscommunication, that integration,
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or finding themselves struggling more so than
the other schools. Okay, good,
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and I got a few more questions
about the business of student athletics before
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I get that, before we kind
of move away from this data point.
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Is there a place that people can
access the state it, or is that
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for members, or how does that
work? It is it is right now
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from verse members only. It's a
never benefit. We are in the process
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of creating what we're calling the return
Netflix calculator, which is kind of a
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if you think of a mortgage calculator. You can go into a website of
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a mortgage company and put in your
own data and find out what what it
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might look like if you were to
take out a mortgage with that company were
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we're creating a similar type tool so
that schools who are not members can come
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in and get a little sneak peak
and, if they are is in getting
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more information. It's a pretty worrious
process to give us the exact same data
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that a member would give us,
but we would ask for some smaller data
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set and then be able to give
them a little bit of a snapshot.
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I would like to be in any
I and have access to return athletics,
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but that would be on it.
We've done it in a couple of occasions
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already and we're getting some INC a
division two and division three schools interested in
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learning more, especially as we're getting
the chance, like we are with with
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you all today, to talk a
bit more about it and have people make
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people aware that it's a possibility.
That's great. I love that idea of
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that tools. So we'll make sure
that we've got a note of that for
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everyone, I guess. Moving on, you just mentioned NCAA. You know,
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two and three divisions and I know
that the way the n Ai a
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approaches things. You know a lot
of people are familiar with NCAA and and
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that's kind of the de facto,
but tell me a little bit about the
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different approach that you take. You
know that that people might not quite fully
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understand. Yeah, you know,
are our strategy and our vision for the
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any I is to be the experts
in the business of small college athletics.
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Are Membership is made up of only
small college just essentially. You know,
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we do have a few that might
be north of five or going a couple
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north of ten thousand students, but, as I mentioned earlier, our average
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enrollment is is just under two thousand, and so the ways in which those
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kinds of schools use the athletics is
very different than pick your big state school,
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University of Oklahoma or university to see
they're going to be at a drive
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revenue through, obviously through sponsorships and
their big television contracts and those kinds of
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things that just start available to small
schools. So our belief is, and
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now I think the vast majority of
our membership is an agreement, that they
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need to understand how to use athletics
to drive enrollment and if they can keep
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their discounts and check to be a
net tuition revenue driver and things like that.
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So are we. I want we
also focus on quality competition and making
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sure that our championships are run well
and that only student athletes on the field
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and competition or ones that are membership
agree should be eligible. Kind of distinate
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when people think of as the standard
role of an athletics association. Those things
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are still really important, but if
our schools can't figure out a way to
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be be profitable in the sense and
keep keep the doors open, then none
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of that really matters. Right.
And then about you know, how does
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that work with, you know,
like when we when we all think about,
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you know, DNE schools, it's
all scholarship based. How does that
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work with in Ai Schools? Yeah, so when as a comparison didn't see
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a most people think of us is
kind of a hybrid between NC Division Two
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and division three, and by that
I mean that our scholarship limits and ability
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to give athletic aid is very similar
TONC division to okay, but our schools
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look a little bit more like Inca, a division three schools, and since
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that most Inca schools in c d
three schools are private and small for the
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most part, and so the schools
that are with us, at least some
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of them, like that model.
There they can they compete against like minded
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institutions, so they're not having to
break the bank to compete, right,
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but at the same time there is
some value and being able to give a
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student or let their parents know they're
getting, an athletic scholarship. People can
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draw their own conclusions about what that
says about society that some value an athletic
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scholarship more than an academic scholarship,
but I think that's just that's just the
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way it is these days. And
so yeah, schools are able to use
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that to their advantage in a strategic
way and it's really nice fit or a
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niche for any I good Jim.
When I think about Collegian athletics. Right
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now, image and likeness comes to
the forefront and I'm not sure if it's
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accurate, but when they first announced
it I thought that's going to give the
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bigger schools advantage over the smaller schools
because of the smaller schools might not be
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able to offer as much or offer
some of the same things. Could you
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speak to how smaller schools are taking
advantage of the image and likeness rules?
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Yeah, and Troy, I think
you're your shop. Your assumption is correct
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in the sense that they're just more
dollars available and economics are different at the
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big schools can fair to compare to
smaller schools, but we're seeing and theny
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I we eliminated all of our restrictions
around they image and like this about three
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or four years ago, kind of
a year year and a half before then.
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See a got to that place and
we're kind of forced by the by
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the number of states who fast laws. So we've been at it for for
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quite a while now and we have
thousands of student athletes. We have a
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total of about eightyzero student athletes and
our our estimates are that two to three
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thousand of those at least or in
some way, shape or form taken advantage
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of name, image likeness. Now
for them, typically the the higher dollar
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amounts would be maybe in five figures. There are a few students who might
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be any more than tenzero. So, but that's mostly because they have a
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huge following on social media and mostly
outside of their athletic ability or talent or
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just like they just content. It's
rating videos and other things and influencing.
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But they those things would have been
against the rules five or six years ago
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because the primary restriction that was was
lifted is students weren't allowed to associate themselves
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as being a student athlete, that
of tickular campus, and we all know
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on social media that's almost impossible to
remove that from your profile or whatever else
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maybe a part of. So that's
really open the door for a lot of
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those things. And then, you
know also can give pitching lessons or help
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coach kids and basketball and make some
money again, things that weren't allowed number
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of years ago, and you know
those are make a few hundred bucks here
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and there post of thousands. But
and then we do have the occasional Jo's
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pizza shop that will give all the
offensive limb and Free Pizza, just to
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just as a feel good thing and
to help them out all those some of
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those things you heard one but just
at a smaller, smaller levels. Let's
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work well. We be remiss about
and mention our great partnership with the open
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doors. They were one of the
first companies to come in and create a
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platform that not only helps student athletes
improve their brand and understand how to promote
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themselves in terms of naming megal likeness, but they also have a market place.
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So they're bringing companies in and ANYI
student athletes can reach out to those
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companies just like a d one student
athlete could. And so we have about
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that last count, a couple thousand
kids in that on that platform and we're
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just really starting to market it through
our eligibility center and through other forms.
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So I think that'll grow exponentially in
the next few years. And is that
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something that your organization helps your membership
colleges implement and do better? Do you
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give advice on how their athletes can
go after some of those funds? We
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do, and it's primarily through that
partnership with open doors. There the there
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the experts in it and they're working
with a lot of NCA division one schools,
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but with us, we created a
partnership with them across all of our
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schools. No, it's not mandatory
for a school to use them. If
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they wanted to partner with someone else, they certainly could. But I think
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most of our schools are seeing the
value of this collective market place and all
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the schools coming together to kind of
work together and understand the different strategies for
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their students and it also gives them
out. We don't have a huge compliance
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burden around this, but there are
students need to disclose when they're doing these
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kinds of things and if they're in
the open doors platform, it makes that
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on the seamless. When you sign
one of these deals, is just automatic
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that it goes into the system.
So we do see. So we're assisting
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through the through the efforts of open
doors. Essentially that's great and and I
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guess that kind of leads me to
our next you know, part of the
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conversation that we had talked about was
the idea of you've kind of discussed a
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little bit about, you know,
the difference of the student athletes and in
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AIA versus. Maybe some other associations
tell me a little bit about the demographics.
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I mean obviously there's small private schools
and and there's, you know,
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because they're average size is eighteen hundred. I've got some ideas, but maybe
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just help me under understand a little
bit more about the demographics of the member
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schools and and how that affects,
you know, the student athletes that they
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that they recruit. Yeah, so
in general or two hundred and fifteen members
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and like when a lot of people
that realizes we have close to eightyzero student
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athletes. So if you just do
the math, that's a little bit over
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three hundred student athletes per school.
And obviously some have more, some have
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less, but if you're if you're
a campus of a thousand, one fifteen
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hundred students and you got three or
four hundred student athletes, it's a big
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presence of athletics on your campus,
and so schools are starting to understand just
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the importance, importance of that.
The other demographics that come to mind is
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all we certainly have schools and big
cities like Chicago and Los Angeles. A
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lot of our membership tends to be
in rural areas, which I think all
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for some advantages and some challenges.
To get to get students there. So
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again, athletics can be a nice
driver of that. And we also have
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a lot of pockets, specially in
the Midwest, where we have schools that
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are close to each other and geography
which creates natural rivalries and schools and make
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competing against each other for almost a
hundred years and right fun things that can
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come about through that and really knowing
from an enrollment and finance perspective, but
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just a nice experience for student athlete
and students on campus when a couple thousand
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people come out to basketball game because
they want to see that competition against arrival.
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That's great and I'm guessing that mean
I work with a lot of small
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schools like the ones you've described and
I know a lot of our schools that
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we work with, our our NAI
schools, and I and I often see
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sometimes that you know a lot of
their you know these smaller schools, not
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only in athletics but just the overall
population. It's a lot of first gen
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students, there's a lot of a
lot of pell, pell eligible students,
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and so I'm sure that's kind of
reflected in the athletics as well. Is
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that? Is that what you find
and do you provide any kind of,
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you know, member benefits or or
help that you can help schools to help?
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You know, how can you recruit
these students that are might not quite
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understand, you know, the whole
they don't know how to navigate the college
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experience? Yeah, I would say
part the answers. Yes, in terms
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of First Jens students in their big
part of athletics, and we're we're just
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starting to because the tip of the
iceberg is analogy that comes to mind.
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We're just starting to have some good
data around that. In the first areas
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were tension. We did a comparison
a first gen student athletes compared to all
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other student athletes and the area of
retention in the first Gen students actually attained
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at a higher rate than the non
Firston. So we were pleased to know
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that. And now part of their
equation is why is that what our schools
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doing? Well to retain them at
a higher rate and we want to improve
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retension for all subsets or your people
overall. But I was very encouraged to
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learn that right off the bat and
again want to help schools to understand what's
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working and why that's happening in terms
of how to attract more first in students.
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We certainly something that's on our list
of areas we want to tackle,
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but we just haven't really gotten to
that yet. Yeah, that's great and
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I know a couple weeks ago we
had to the limited foundation for education on
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the PODCAST and they I've done some
work with them over the years and I
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know that they have done some initiatives
around first gen students and one of the
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important things that they they identified and
discovered it some of their research that they
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support are, you know, these
different cohorts that that you know, first
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Gen students can get involved in and
how being in a being in a specific
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cohort sometimes can add you know,
stickiness and retention to those students because you
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know, come end of semester they're
not they're not if they're already in a
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group or where they're not one to
just kind of bail because they're just not
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making the fit. And it seems
to me like student athletics really kind of
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often serves that natural cohort. Is
that kind of what you think too?
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Yeah, I agree that it's a
great point and something we can certainly explorer.
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Hope our data will support that,
but it does. Intuitively that seems
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like a conclusion that I would agree
with and the sense that everyone wants to
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belong somewhere. In the first Jin
students, it's not something that's been talked
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about your family as you were growing
up, and US it's all brand new
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to you as you get to the
campus. To have a have a built
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in family or built in cowork certainly
certainly helps, and we know that for
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the most part our coaches that's part
of the reason they're in their jobs.
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They want to win and they want
to compete, but they're help young people
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grow and going to be successful in
life, and so I know the number
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of our coaches made a special attention
to those who don't families, don't have
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any college experience like that. That's
fits well with the that you're talking about
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and it probably fits well with the
smaller schools to that's just part of the
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ethos sometimes of those smaller schools as
well. But we've talked a little bit
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about student athletes and sometimes I think
we have in our mind a particular type
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of image, whether it be a
female athlete or a male athlete. But
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sometimes I've noticed a lot of associations
are identifying some new student athletes that many
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of us might not recognize a student
athlete's and I'm specifically talking about esports.
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And so tell us a little bit
about esports and and how an AIA is
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starting to kind of look at that, because I know that's another very,
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very popular way. That's that schools
are starting to look at other opportunities for
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recruitment. Yeah, I love to
talk about our esports efforts and audience compare
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with me. I'll go through a
little bit of the history of it.
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Been Back in two thousand and sixteen, six years ago. It's hardly has
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been that long. But we knew
of six institutions that were jumping in to
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start esports as a varsity sport,
to use the traditional word, and sports
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a meaning they were starting to recruit
students onto campus as opposed to just students
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are already there, allowing them to
play various es sports. So we brought
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in these six institutions and said,
well, why don't we start a an
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association to support esports and starting a
national association with six members. This is
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a leap of faith that you opened, that others will join, but that
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the there was pretty good evidence that
it was going to grow pretty quickly,
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and so five of those happened to
be any schools. One was an NC
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division to school. But they all
agree to join and so we just started
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going down the path, not sure
exactly where I was going to lead us.
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But Pass forwards to a day we
have about two hundred member institutions.
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More than half of those are in
the NCA for their traditional sports, some
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division one like the University Missouri,
a lot of details and d threes,
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and then the about eighty or so
any school. So it's a nice x
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and nice blend and right now size
of institution doesn't doesn't really predict success.
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It depends on what resources they can
smaller schools want to want to put into
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it. But it's been it's been
great for the vast majority of those institutions
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and the way I like to think
of it is that for those naysayers out
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there, because I was a little
skeptical we first started doing it too,
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about all the stereotypes of esports players
being in the basement you eating Gurrito's and
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drinking mountain do but what we found
is that it's just the opposite. When
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you bring it in as part of
the campus ethos and we're talking with them
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a few minutes ago about first Gen
students and wanted to have a sense of
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belonging and have a cohort that they
can can use to keep them on campus.
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I think it's a similar concept with
esports. Now these students are literally
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going from playing esports in the basement
or and apartment somewhere to doing so in
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many cases right in the middle of
the campus and they're they're being seen differently
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by their fellow students and they feel
differently because they now feel like this is
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something that's legitimized and you know,
a lot of schools to or putting in
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physical fitness is a part of this
and getting them giving them some assistance that
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traditional athletes typlicate round academics and other
things. So it's by and large been
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just terrific. And you still have
the concerns about is it really healthy to
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play these Games for twelve hours a
day or whatever some of the students are
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are doing, but my view is
most of them are going to be doing
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that on their own anyway, so
it's better to have a support system to
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help around it. So we would
an answer to say it's just it's fun
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to watch. The actually started a
separate association so we could attract schools that
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were not playing their traditional sports,
and then Ai, and so it's called
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NACE, the National Association of Cleach
D Sports, and it's just going great
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guns and still a very business that's
still maturing and has has a lot of
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growth and a lot of work to
do but by and large great, great
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success. Now are some of the
schools that are members of NACE? Are
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they offering scholarships or is it is
it's kind of similar to an AI,
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where some are somewhere not. It's
part of the financial aid package, depending.
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Yeah, I would say it's.
It's very similar to smaller institutions.
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On the athletic side, they're most
most schools are trying to package some esports
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scholarship is part of their financial aid
offerings out to out the students and there
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are a handful who are giving up
what's close to a full scholarship, but
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that's that's pretty rare. So it's
right stacking on top of academic aid and
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other aid with the maybe a twenty
five hundred dollar esports scholarship for given more
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than that, but it's it's definitely
a partial scholarship model. I think that's
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a very interesting and I applaud you
for stepping into that and I think that
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it can be a little bit of
controversial or, you know, not sure
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about it, but again it's a
it's a reality of our culture, it's
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a reality of life, it's a
reality of Gen Z and Alpha coming down
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the pike and and really being able
to lean into that and and make that
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a part of our our campus culture. I think is is is something that
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we should applaud and I'm glad to
see you guys taken some leadership in that
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at the at the association level.
Yeah, well, thanks. It's exciting
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and I sit on that board and
I'm by far I know the least about
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the esports anyone else and boors of
them graduate. The rest of them are
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there, but I hopefully I can
addle something from running association and just it's
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just a lot of fun to watch
and to be a part of. That's
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great. Jim, at the top
of the podcast you mentioned admissions working well
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with athletics and some of the success
that you have noticed, and I also
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know Bart has examples that he's mentioned
in previous podcast. Wanted to bring that
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conversation back and to encourage both of
you to offer either examples or advice that
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you would get smaller schools on how
they could strengthen that relationship to increase enrollment
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and also help in marketing. Yeah, you know one one institution that comes
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to mind. I can't tell you
a ton about the exact structural campus,
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but Morningside College is great example to
me. They came over to the nil
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over twenty years ago from ins a
division two, and in their division to
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model they had about eight hundred students
total and about half of those athletes and
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many of those were getting full scholarship. So with the way the president,
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John Renders, who's about to retire, explain it to me, as you
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know, the four hundred none athletes
were were having a support the school and
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kind of carry the four hundred athletes
were getting in a lot of cases full
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of scholarships. And so they came
over to then I and built a model
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where now they have about twenty five
hundred students and still have a lot of
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student athletes, but as a percentage
as much lowers and like they have five
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or six hundred student athletes. But
he talked a lot about the importance of
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partnership between admissions and enrollment and and
the Athletic Department and that, you know,
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the coaches understand on the front side
that they're going to try to help
408
00:28:56.319 --> 00:29:00.160
them win and they have. They
just want our football championship and they've won
409
00:29:00.920 --> 00:29:06.599
at a lot of levels a lot
of sports. But for for Dcor rhynders
410
00:29:06.680 --> 00:29:08.519
and for the leadership on campus,
the Board of thing was, you know,
411
00:29:08.519 --> 00:29:11.720
how do we keep how do we
move forward with athletics in a way
412
00:29:11.720 --> 00:29:15.599
that supports the institution? And so
the coaches also understand that it's just not
413
00:29:15.640 --> 00:29:19.359
an open check book, that they
have to do it in a responsible way
414
00:29:19.400 --> 00:29:22.240
and that they are going to give
a good bit of a to one student,
415
00:29:22.319 --> 00:29:26.240
they need to attract some students that
don't need as much aid to come
416
00:29:26.279 --> 00:29:29.680
to come to campus. So let's
one specific example of how worked. And
417
00:29:29.680 --> 00:29:33.240
then I know there are other institutions, as I mentioned before, that actually
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00:29:33.240 --> 00:29:37.519
put the coaches into the into the
abistions office, and I think it's a
419
00:29:37.640 --> 00:29:41.319
it's an interesting model. I'm sure
it has some challenges and I don't have
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00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:45.599
as much interaction with admissions folks or
enrollment people, but I know there were
421
00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:49.279
probably some who might think that's a
bad idea. So you have to have
422
00:29:49.319 --> 00:29:52.799
to figure out how to do it
on campus with politics and other things.
423
00:29:52.839 --> 00:29:56.480
But I think, I think,
as Bart said earlier, coaches there's would
424
00:29:56.480 --> 00:30:00.920
be hard to argue that coaches here
not the best for hooters on campus and
425
00:30:00.920 --> 00:30:03.200
know how to bring kids in,
and so it seems it would seem to
426
00:30:03.240 --> 00:30:07.599
be a shame if you didn't try
to utilize that ability, in that talent,
427
00:30:07.720 --> 00:30:11.160
that expertise and in some way to
a track students in general and even
428
00:30:11.240 --> 00:30:17.160
use some of those tactics and strategies
to attract men athletes. Yeah, and
429
00:30:17.480 --> 00:30:21.559
I think to general add to that
that I believe that sometimes this campus is
430
00:30:21.559 --> 00:30:26.920
that I see that are the most
successful in integrating athletics and enrollment together are
431
00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:32.720
those that align all the way from
from the top down on mission fit,
432
00:30:33.519 --> 00:30:37.720
because I mean I think that it's
it's so critical, especially at some of
433
00:30:37.759 --> 00:30:41.559
these smaller privates, that that are
very mission oriented. I mean every school's
434
00:30:41.559 --> 00:30:45.920
mission oriented. Sometimes it's, you
know, academic is the mission, sometimes
435
00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:48.359
it's, you know, faith,
it's the mission. There's different ways that
436
00:30:48.400 --> 00:30:52.440
you can define mission, but I
think that having alignment throughout all of the
437
00:30:52.480 --> 00:30:59.160
faculty staff, including coaches and recruiters, on what are the best students that
438
00:30:59.160 --> 00:31:03.279
are actually going to, you know, flourish at our institution. And sometimes
439
00:31:03.319 --> 00:31:07.880
that's that's you know they're how there
are some tough decisions to make in that
440
00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:10.400
but I think at the same time, at the end of the day,
441
00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:15.279
a coach that can retain a student
from freshman is senior on a squad or
442
00:31:15.400 --> 00:31:19.400
on a roster is really going to
see more success on the on the quarter,
443
00:31:19.559 --> 00:31:23.720
on the field, in whatever they're
doing, and that's why I think
444
00:31:23.720 --> 00:31:27.119
it's so critical that, you know, mission fit students are the ones that
445
00:31:27.160 --> 00:31:32.119
get recruited and I think that just
adds, ADDS value for everybody. I
446
00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:33.720
mean, you know, the last
thing a student wants to do is end
447
00:31:33.759 --> 00:31:38.160
up at a school that wasn't a
good fit for them and nobody wants that,
448
00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:41.000
and so I think a lot of
times that success. We're well that
449
00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:45.359
way too. Right, I agree
hundred percent. And fit is important.
450
00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:49.519
As you mentioned, there every school
as a mission but they're very different depending
451
00:31:49.599 --> 00:31:53.880
on the institution and where you are. And one thing you said trigger for
452
00:31:53.920 --> 00:31:56.680
me. One of the things we're
trying to do with return athletics is is
453
00:31:56.720 --> 00:32:02.680
help people understand that driving enrollment through
athletics and do it in a financially responsible
454
00:32:02.680 --> 00:32:07.000
way doesn't mean that you can't be
competitive, that any of you can do
455
00:32:07.039 --> 00:32:13.039
both, and we're finding a lot
of institutions that are having the most success
456
00:32:13.039 --> 00:32:17.839
in competition or also finding success and
driving enrollment and on the financial side,
457
00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:22.319
and we're we're trying to help them
understand the what's the what's the cause and
458
00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:25.960
effect there, and what's the what's
the connection, because we also have schools
459
00:32:25.960 --> 00:32:30.640
that are spending a lot of money
on athletics and not having success, and
460
00:32:30.680 --> 00:32:36.279
I would an obvious thing to point
out is everybody can't win. Somebody's going
461
00:32:36.319 --> 00:32:38.440
to win and somebody's going to lose
in each competition. But but I think
462
00:32:38.440 --> 00:32:42.079
you know, most of our institutions
can be competitive and do it in a
463
00:32:42.119 --> 00:32:46.759
way that helps helps the financial impact
on campus. Great Gem. That's we
464
00:32:46.839 --> 00:32:51.880
bring the this episode to a close. You'd like to ask you if you
465
00:32:51.920 --> 00:32:55.559
have either an impactful final thought or
a quick tip that you can offer as
466
00:32:55.599 --> 00:33:01.200
it relates to strengthening enrollment and missions
to athletics that you would like to leave
467
00:33:01.359 --> 00:33:06.920
before we close our podcast. Yeah, try. I don't know if it's
468
00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:12.119
anything new from what we've already talked
about, but I it just seems to
469
00:33:12.119 --> 00:33:16.319
me for institutions that look like any
schools, and by that I mean schools
470
00:33:16.319 --> 00:33:24.920
that are around two thousand students and
primarily private institutions, this this topic that
471
00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:29.680
we've since we've been talking about for
the full podcast around how does athletics how
472
00:33:29.720 --> 00:33:35.400
a positive impact on the campus broadly? If schools aren't paying attention to that
473
00:33:35.480 --> 00:33:38.559
and they're in that category, it
just seem I can't understand why, and
474
00:33:38.559 --> 00:33:43.920
I think they're putting themselves and maybe
not in a danger of extinction, but
475
00:33:44.079 --> 00:33:49.480
but certainly are not exploring all the
ways that they can be viable and sustainable
476
00:33:49.559 --> 00:33:53.319
over over time. And so I
know there are some presidents is still aren't
477
00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:57.759
on that, on that train yet, so to speak, but as I
478
00:33:57.799 --> 00:34:00.160
go to see I see presents and
student other places, it's certainly obvious that
479
00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:04.599
more and more thinking about it.
And so if there any presidents out there,
480
00:34:04.599 --> 00:34:07.440
people in leadership positions on campus and
they want to understand how we're looking
481
00:34:07.480 --> 00:34:10.000
at that data and the things that
we're we're trying to do to help our
482
00:34:10.280 --> 00:34:14.840
institutions would love to talk with them
whether they're are in a position to potential
483
00:34:14.840 --> 00:34:19.800
to join any are not. Think
we have some sense of responsibility to just
484
00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:23.480
make sure people understand that better and
we have a guess, a greater responsibility
485
00:34:23.480 --> 00:34:27.440
to our own members in terms of
sharing the date and things like that.
486
00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:30.599
But it's a it's an area that
I'm passionate about out and I think it's
487
00:34:30.639 --> 00:34:32.280
Prooke the important and so the last
thing I would say on that is,
488
00:34:32.440 --> 00:34:37.840
whatever your model is, that the
Cross section, integration, the communication between
489
00:34:37.880 --> 00:34:43.880
athletics and any roll but just continues
to be more and more important. Thank
490
00:34:43.960 --> 00:34:46.599
you, Jim. And for those
presidents or anyone else that would like to
491
00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:53.679
get more information about in AIA or
contact you with further questions that they have
492
00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:58.000
after hearing the podcast, what's the
best way for them to contact you?
493
00:34:58.679 --> 00:35:01.039
Yeah, through our website, any
I dot Org, as the best in
494
00:35:01.119 --> 00:35:05.239
my contact information is on there,
but it's just jake car J AC a
495
00:35:05.800 --> 00:35:08.960
rr at any I dot org and
love to hear from anybody out there as
496
00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:14.440
more questions and certainly could set up
a call or a zoom meeting of that's
497
00:35:14.559 --> 00:35:17.599
interest. Well, thank you for
being a guest on the podcast and helping
498
00:35:17.679 --> 00:35:22.719
us get this message out. I
hope that it does spur more questions and
499
00:35:22.840 --> 00:35:28.079
inquiries that you can follow up on
Bart. Do you have any final thoughts
500
00:35:28.119 --> 00:35:30.960
before we close the show? Yeah, just a couple things that I'm thinking
501
00:35:31.039 --> 00:35:35.760
is that I really like this idea
of the business of student athletics. I
502
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:38.000
think that, you know, so
many times, I think that we forget
503
00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:44.000
and leadership that, especially as we
talk about marketing, that there's an opportunity
504
00:35:44.039 --> 00:35:46.960
to look at different segments of types
of students and how we market to them
505
00:35:47.000 --> 00:35:52.719
and how we recruit them. And
there's a you know, athletics in High
506
00:35:52.719 --> 00:35:57.320
School and club and everything else is
such a big part of our culture and
507
00:35:57.320 --> 00:36:00.519
and a lot of those students will
end up, you know, hope to,
508
00:36:00.679 --> 00:36:06.559
you know, eventually play their continue
their sport into Indo College, and
509
00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:10.280
so I think that the opportunity that
schools have for that level of marketing to
510
00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:14.800
those students and using that for recruitment
is a great thing. And I think
511
00:36:14.840 --> 00:36:16.480
a lot of the things that we
talked about in here is the importance of
512
00:36:16.480 --> 00:36:21.519
making sure that there's, you know, alignment between the the Athletic Department and
513
00:36:21.800 --> 00:36:24.840
the recruitment department and I would also
say alignment within the marketing as well,
514
00:36:24.840 --> 00:36:30.679
because the coaches are going to need
support from marketers in the best ways to
515
00:36:30.719 --> 00:36:32.199
communicate. I mean, there's a
set of rules around, you know,
516
00:36:32.599 --> 00:36:37.480
the recruitment of college students and athletes, and so understanding that and working with
517
00:36:37.480 --> 00:36:40.760
the athletic department, but being able
to provide them, you know, is
518
00:36:40.800 --> 00:36:45.480
it is a separate type of acceptance
package. I mean, you know,
519
00:36:45.519 --> 00:36:47.239
if you've got half of your students
that you're on your campus are going to
520
00:36:47.239 --> 00:36:51.880
be student athletes, you know,
maybe there's a special you know way that
521
00:36:51.920 --> 00:36:55.239
you also tie in the acceptance package. You know, if you're sending a
522
00:36:55.280 --> 00:37:00.039
big folder or big, you know
presentation, maybe you kind of do a
523
00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:04.880
nod and personalize it so it's toward, you know, they're their sports that
524
00:37:04.880 --> 00:37:07.960
they're a part of or their esports
they're a part of. And I really
525
00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:10.360
like the idea of the esports to
and I applaud that because I think that's
526
00:37:10.440 --> 00:37:14.639
one of those things that is taking
a leap of faith. It's going out
527
00:37:14.639 --> 00:37:17.199
a little bit further and doing something
creative. And I would also challenge,
528
00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:21.079
you know, the schools that are
looking at esports. How can you use
529
00:37:21.119 --> 00:37:22.280
that marketing in that as well?
I mean, you know, you think
530
00:37:22.320 --> 00:37:29.079
about their platforms within the esports where
you know you can buy ads even within
531
00:37:29.239 --> 00:37:32.480
the games them selves, and so
what a great place, if you have
532
00:37:32.519 --> 00:37:37.679
an esport program at your school,
to actually be placing digital ads within these
533
00:37:37.719 --> 00:37:40.920
games so that the student says they're, you know, zipping around the racetrack
534
00:37:40.960 --> 00:37:44.840
at six hundred miles an hour they
see the ad up for your school go
535
00:37:44.880 --> 00:37:46.320
by. So there's a lot of
ways that we need to be creative when
536
00:37:46.360 --> 00:37:51.360
we start thinking about the recruitment of
certain segments, and this is a good
537
00:37:51.440 --> 00:37:54.280
conversation about how to do that for
athletes. Thank you, Bart, and
538
00:37:54.320 --> 00:37:59.519
again thank you to Jim car for
helping us get this information out, and
539
00:37:59.559 --> 00:38:06.760
we encourage our listeners to contact him
and the Organization for further conversation. The
540
00:38:06.880 --> 00:38:12.960
High Red Marketer podcast is sponsored by
Kaba Solutions and education marketing and branding agency
541
00:38:13.119 --> 00:38:19.599
and by Think, patented, a
marketing execution company combining print technology and personalization
542
00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:25.079
for deeper engagement with your target audience. On behalf of Bart Taylor, I'm
543
00:38:25.119 --> 00:38:34.840
troy singer. Thank you for your
listen you've been listening to the Higher Ed
544
00:38:34.920 --> 00:38:38.159
Marketer. To ensure that you never
miss an episode, subscribe to the show
545
00:38:38.239 --> 00:38:44.079
in your favorite podcast player. If
you're listening with apple PODCASTS, we'd love
546
00:38:44.159 --> 00:38:46.559
for you to leave a quick rating
of the show. Simply tap the number
547
00:38:46.599 --> 00:38:50.920
of stars you think the podcast deserves. Until next time,