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July 19, 2022

The Key to Successful Content Marketing

The Key to Successful Content Marketing

The goal is not to be good at social media; the goal is to be better in Higher Ed because of social media.  

Jay Bear, founder of Convince & Convert, a content marketing consulting and social media strategy company. Jay is also a bestselling author of 6 content marketing and customer experience, a hall of fame keynote speaker, and an emcee. Jay joins Troy and Bart to offer a wealth of knowledge on how successful content marketing can benefit higher ed.  

Join us as we discuss:

  • Alignment between enrollment and the student experience.
  • Helping universities understand communication modalities.
  • Helping universities understand market research, personal development, and the customer matching journey. 

The Higher Ed Marketer podcast is sponsored by Caylor Solutions, an Education Marketing and Branding Agency, and by Think Patented, a Marketing Execution, Printing and Mailing provider of Higher Ed solutions.

    

 

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:06.320 The High Red Marketer podcast is sponsored by the ZEMI APP enabling colleges and universities 2 00:00:06.519 --> 00:00:14.800 to engage interested students before they even apply. You're listening to the Higher Ed 3 00:00:14.880 --> 00:00:20.120 Marketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals in higher education. This show will 4 00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:25.039 tackle all sorts of questions related to student recruitment, donor relations, marketing trends, 5 00:00:25.039 --> 00:00:29.839 new technologies and so much more. If you're looking for conversations centered around 6 00:00:29.839 --> 00:00:34.000 where the industry is going, this podcast is for you. Let's get into 7 00:00:34.039 --> 00:00:42.719 the show. Welcome to another edition of the Higher Ed Marketer Podcast, where, 8 00:00:42.759 --> 00:00:47.359 each week we interview high reed marketers that we admire for the benefit and 9 00:00:47.520 --> 00:00:52.119 the betterment of the entire Higher Ed Marketing Community. Today, Bart, we 10 00:00:52.159 --> 00:00:57.920 get to talk to one of the leading influencers and minds in higher red marketing, 11 00:00:58.000 --> 00:01:02.079 I should say in marketing for all, Jay Bear, and if you 12 00:01:02.159 --> 00:01:07.879 haven't heard that name, it's a name that you should know and should follow, 13 00:01:07.079 --> 00:01:15.799 because he is a best selling author and just someone that gives great content 14 00:01:15.959 --> 00:01:19.719 around effective marketing. Yeah, I I got introduced to Jay through one of 15 00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:23.719 his books called utility, probably about nearly ten years ago. I think it 16 00:01:23.719 --> 00:01:26.920 came out in two thousand thirteen. It really is one of those things. 17 00:01:26.959 --> 00:01:30.680 You know, and you all know that you know when you when you read 18 00:01:30.680 --> 00:01:34.359 a book and it really kind of changes the way that you think about things, 19 00:01:34.480 --> 00:01:36.719 kind of opens your eyes to a lot of things. That's what Jay's 20 00:01:36.760 --> 00:01:41.359 book did to me, Um, really kind of influenced my my thoughts about 21 00:01:41.400 --> 00:01:44.760 content marketing. Um, you know, I could probably even say that the 22 00:01:44.879 --> 00:01:49.079 genesis of the Higher Ed Marketer happened then, because I realized that there's questions 23 00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:53.040 that people have, there's there's things that they're searching for, and what we 24 00:01:53.079 --> 00:01:56.319 need to do is provide that. And so that's part of the part of 25 00:01:56.319 --> 00:01:59.719 why we do the Higher Ed Marketers, to provide those answers that you might 26 00:01:59.719 --> 00:02:02.799 be seeking and you might not even know those questions yet, and so bringing 27 00:02:02.799 --> 00:02:06.519 on people like Jay to do that. He's been a leading thinker in this. 28 00:02:06.640 --> 00:02:08.639 He's been in the in the space for years. He Um, I 29 00:02:08.639 --> 00:02:13.639 got introduced to him through Ethan Braden, who's another one of our guests who 30 00:02:13.639 --> 00:02:15.360 have been on the on the podcast a couple of times, and so I 31 00:02:15.439 --> 00:02:20.280 really like everything that Jay talks about. I really like to the fact that 32 00:02:20.400 --> 00:02:23.560 Jay has his foot in both higher ed marketing, but he does a lot 33 00:02:23.599 --> 00:02:28.120 of work in corporate too, and I remember, you know, early in 34 00:02:28.159 --> 00:02:30.599 my career I was doing work with with, you know, higher education, 35 00:02:30.960 --> 00:02:34.879 uh schools, but I was also doing work with like motorole in our C 36 00:02:35.039 --> 00:02:38.639 A and consumer brands, and you learn a lot about just the way marketing 37 00:02:38.719 --> 00:02:42.879 works and how to apply that back and forth, and so I think Jay 38 00:02:42.919 --> 00:02:46.759 brings that expertise as well. You'll be a fan after this episode, if 39 00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:50.879 you aren't a fan already of Jay. Here's our conversation with Jay Bear. 40 00:02:54.199 --> 00:02:59.400 We are so excited to welcome to the High Ed Marketer podcast Jay Bear. 41 00:02:59.759 --> 00:03:04.800 With a lot of you know, is a author of six books, best 42 00:03:04.840 --> 00:03:08.639 sellers, also a hall of fame keynote speaker and MC but a lot of 43 00:03:08.800 --> 00:03:14.039 us know him as the business leader. He is the founder of convinced and 44 00:03:14.120 --> 00:03:19.599 convert, which is a content marketing, consulting and Social Media Strategy Company. 45 00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:23.479 Jay, thank you so much for joining the Higher Reed Marketer podcast. Trey 46 00:03:23.479 --> 00:03:27.199 Bart, fantastic to be here. Thanks for having me excited to be on 47 00:03:27.199 --> 00:03:31.639 the show. If you could for those that might not be familiar with convincing 48 00:03:31.680 --> 00:03:37.039 convert. Could you let us know what the company does, especially around Higher 49 00:03:37.039 --> 00:03:40.879 Reed Marketing? Sure you bet. Or a fifteen year old consultancy with strategists 50 00:03:40.879 --> 00:03:49.039 located across the United States. We help midsize sand large organizations do better digital 51 00:03:49.039 --> 00:03:53.080 marketing and better overall customer experience. I have lots of clients in Higher Ed 52 00:03:53.840 --> 00:03:58.800 for whom we help them with social media content marketings. Are Pan Digital Strategy, 53 00:03:58.919 --> 00:04:04.000 digital transfer, Shin customer experience, essentially taking what they're doing and making 54 00:04:04.039 --> 00:04:10.280 it better. We're not a tactical frontline agency in the classic sense. You 55 00:04:10.319 --> 00:04:14.400 know, we're not gonna design your facebook ads, for example, but we'll 56 00:04:14.439 --> 00:04:18.759 tell you what you should be doing in in in paid advertising strategically. That's 57 00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:24.120 great, Troy. I just wanted to jump in and I'm so excited to 58 00:04:24.160 --> 00:04:27.959 have J on here. I've I've I think I was introduced to Jay's work 59 00:04:28.040 --> 00:04:32.160 in two thousand thirteen when he launched his book utility, and it's one that 60 00:04:32.279 --> 00:04:36.480 I kind of really framed the way that I looked at digital marketing and content 61 00:04:36.560 --> 00:04:40.879 marketing. Um, you know, I've I've had a lot of people see 62 00:04:40.920 --> 00:04:45.000 my slides where I have quoted J in those and I've always been struck with 63 00:04:45.040 --> 00:04:47.439 the idea that the key, and I really believe this truly is the key, 64 00:04:47.480 --> 00:04:51.680 to really successful content marketing is being able to answer the questions that your 65 00:04:51.759 --> 00:04:56.959 your prospective students want and what they're seeking for. And you know that that 66 00:04:57.000 --> 00:05:00.839 goes all the way across so many things. And and I really think that 67 00:05:00.879 --> 00:05:03.920 when we get into talking about social media strategy, uh, I mean, 68 00:05:03.959 --> 00:05:06.240 that's really where a lot of things start, isn't? Isn't a jam? 69 00:05:06.279 --> 00:05:11.319 Mean we've really got to be able to, you know, understand where the 70 00:05:11.360 --> 00:05:15.360 mindset is of our perspective students and what's going on. Yeah, it's tricky 71 00:05:15.439 --> 00:05:19.920 because the goal is not to be good at social media. The goal is 72 00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:25.160 to be good at at business or higher red because of social media, and 73 00:05:25.199 --> 00:05:28.480 sometimes those work a little bit across purposes. I would I would argue that 74 00:05:28.920 --> 00:05:34.920 higher reed organizations have as difficult of a strategic assignment as any kind of organization 75 00:05:35.319 --> 00:05:40.959 with regards to social media, because there are so many strategic mouths to feat. 76 00:05:41.160 --> 00:05:44.199 Right, you've got an enrollment goal, you've got, uh, an 77 00:05:44.199 --> 00:05:46.319 overall branding goal. Maybe you've got an athletics school, you've got a student 78 00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:50.000 services and student life goal and on. And then you've got individual units and 79 00:05:50.040 --> 00:05:55.120 departments, Um, humanities and everything else. There's just a lot of people 80 00:05:55.600 --> 00:05:59.839 wanting to use social media for a lot of different things, Um, and 81 00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:02.519 you only have so many accounts and figuring out what goes on the main account 82 00:06:02.560 --> 00:06:08.439 and what goes on the individual accounts and how they intersect and and what gets 83 00:06:08.480 --> 00:06:12.399 elevated to the mother ship. It's just a challenge, which is why convinced 84 00:06:12.480 --> 00:06:16.439 convert work works with so many major higher ed organizations to try and solve that 85 00:06:16.519 --> 00:06:19.879 challenge. And there's no right answer. It does depend on campus and sort 86 00:06:19.879 --> 00:06:24.480 of the culture of each organization a little bit, but, Um, it's 87 00:06:24.560 --> 00:06:28.439 it's not an easy problem to solve. Yeah, I think you're exactly right. 88 00:06:28.480 --> 00:06:30.759 And full transparency, Jay, and I met through Ethan Braden, who's 89 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:33.680 been on the podcast a couple of times. He's a friend of the Higher 90 00:06:33.759 --> 00:06:38.639 Ed Marketer and so a purdue. I know that they've leveraged a lot of 91 00:06:38.680 --> 00:06:42.040 your expertise and the work of convinced and convert, but I think that one 92 00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:44.639 of the things you just said that reminded me of a conversation we have with 93 00:06:44.680 --> 00:06:47.560 Brian Kenney who's the CMO at Harvard Business School. Um. We had him 94 00:06:47.560 --> 00:06:51.879 on the podcast a few episodes ago and he's been in you know, he's 95 00:06:51.920 --> 00:06:55.759 he's sat in the CMO seat in a lot of different industries and and he's 96 00:06:55.800 --> 00:06:59.480 convinced that higher Ed is one of the most difficult industries to do marketing, 97 00:06:59.480 --> 00:07:01.839 and primarily for what you just said. There's so many mouths to feed, 98 00:07:01.879 --> 00:07:05.839 there's so many constituent groups that really when you think about it, how many 99 00:07:05.839 --> 00:07:12.040 other how many other firms have to you know why? You know, market 100 00:07:12.079 --> 00:07:15.560 to the wide swath of of all the generations in certain ways, that that 101 00:07:15.560 --> 00:07:20.120 that higher ed does. No question and it's such a good point and really 102 00:07:20.399 --> 00:07:29.000 salient today when you're trying to communicate to, say, a faculty member versus 103 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:33.920 a alum, versus a parent of a current student, versus an existing student 104 00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:41.199 versus a perspective student, those are five colossally different personas. We're lucky at 105 00:07:41.240 --> 00:07:44.519 convinced a convert because we do a lot of higher ed strategy, but also 106 00:07:44.560 --> 00:07:47.920 a lot of strategy and other industries, traveling, tourism, technology, financial 107 00:07:47.959 --> 00:07:51.160 services and on and on and on. And I will tell you, like 108 00:07:51.560 --> 00:07:55.839 Cisco, for example, is a large client of ours. CISCO HAS A 109 00:07:55.879 --> 00:08:00.000 lot of different client types. It's a giant global company, but those client 110 00:08:00.199 --> 00:08:05.000 types and those audiences are far and more similar then what you would find in 111 00:08:05.120 --> 00:08:11.000 any modestly sized, Higher Ed Organization. So you can't really have a strategy. 112 00:08:11.199 --> 00:08:16.600 You've got a whole bunch of other strategy. You've got many specific strategies 113 00:08:16.240 --> 00:08:20.639 that work together. Is really the approach, and I think you mentioned in 114 00:08:20.680 --> 00:08:22.920 Ethan from purduce. They've done a nice job figuring that out right, that 115 00:08:22.959 --> 00:08:30.079 there is a master strategy and then specific strategies and operations plans for each key 116 00:08:30.279 --> 00:08:33.799 unit and even for each key theme or or differentiator that produce has. I 117 00:08:33.840 --> 00:08:37.759 like how you how you articulated that, because I think that that's one of 118 00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:41.240 the keys, especially when we're talking about social media. I mean you've got 119 00:08:41.279 --> 00:08:43.759 so many different audiences to begin with. Then you have the preferred channels that 120 00:08:43.840 --> 00:08:48.519 those audiences like to consume their social media. And you know, I was 121 00:08:48.759 --> 00:08:52.480 I was doing a Prev presentation recently to a group of colleges and and and 122 00:08:52.480 --> 00:08:56.360 and leaders and I was pointing out a slide that I had done in two 123 00:08:56.399 --> 00:09:00.159 thousand sixteen and I said you know my daughter, she's twelve. She's into 124 00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:03.039 this new social media called musically, something you need to be paying attention to 125 00:09:03.159 --> 00:09:07.000 because, you know, I don't know enough about it, but she's really 126 00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:09.039 into it and her friends are into it. Well, guess what it's called 127 00:09:09.039 --> 00:09:13.000 Tiktok today and uh, it's it's one of those things that, you know, 128 00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:16.200 I have so many, so many higher ed marketers that tell me, 129 00:09:16.279 --> 00:09:18.879 boy, I just can't keep up. and Um, I often say, 130 00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:24.000 you know, what are you doing per the segment and are you doing those 131 00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:26.200 well, because there's no sense of you getting into Tiktok if you're not even 132 00:09:26.279 --> 00:09:31.279 doing facebook well for your alumni. Absolutely, yeah, there's no question. 133 00:09:31.039 --> 00:09:37.480 But you may put different people on each of those channels for for different purposes. 134 00:09:37.799 --> 00:09:41.440 And you're right, though. I mean marketing has a very difficult challenge, 135 00:09:43.080 --> 00:09:48.200 and really has since the invention of the Internet, in that the tactics 136 00:09:48.279 --> 00:09:54.200 and the cadence of marketing changes perhaps more than any other element of the enterprise. 137 00:09:56.039 --> 00:09:58.759 You never have a quarter, much less a year, much last five 138 00:09:58.840 --> 00:10:01.399 year, like yeah, we're just doing the same thing again, like never. 139 00:10:01.559 --> 00:10:07.960 Right, it's constant, constant optimization and reinvention, and I will tell 140 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:11.320 you some people are totally wired for that Gig and other people just aren't. 141 00:10:11.320 --> 00:10:15.200 And it doesn't make them bad marketers and it certainly doesn't make them bad people, 142 00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:18.440 but it does make them perhaps ill suited for modern marketing, because I 143 00:10:18.440 --> 00:10:20.440 can tell you I've been doing this now for thirty years. I started in 144 00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:26.200 the Internet business when domain names were free, and I can tell you it's 145 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:28.720 not gonna get easier. It's not like you know, oh, but you 146 00:10:28.759 --> 00:10:31.639 know what, in that we're gonna stop having new stuff to worry about. 147 00:10:31.679 --> 00:10:35.480 Nope, it's just gonna get harder. And I love your tiktok example, 148 00:10:35.519 --> 00:10:41.799 because Tiktok is working the exact same pattern that every other social network has worked. 149 00:10:41.039 --> 00:10:45.080 It starts with the youth and then it Broun's its appealed to other people. 150 00:10:45.320 --> 00:10:48.399 To wit. Gentlemen, I am a Tequila teacher. I'm a certified 151 00:10:48.440 --> 00:10:56.240 Tequila Somalia and I've recently started a Tiktok Tequila teaching channel, Tequila Jay Bear. 152 00:10:56.759 --> 00:11:01.679 I just put out a TIKTOK video ten days ago. Eight hundred and 153 00:11:01.720 --> 00:11:07.080 seventy five thousand views on Tiktok me talking to a camera about Tequila. Right 154 00:11:07.159 --> 00:11:11.240 I mean it's it's crazy, crazy, yeah, and I we had we 155 00:11:11.279 --> 00:11:13.720 had Rob Clark on a couple of weeks ago. He's a former director of 156 00:11:13.759 --> 00:11:16.519 admissions at one of the schools that that I'm affiliated with and that's how we 157 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:20.080 met. He since, you know, left his his son is seven one 158 00:11:20.120 --> 00:11:24.320 and so he's a he's a junior in high school and so he's working towards, 159 00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:26.519 you know, d one type of scholarships. But they started a tiktok 160 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:30.679 account called the tall family and, uh, you know, they've had over 161 00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:33.360 your you know who they are, and they've had over a billion views. 162 00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:39.519 And he talked about how how enrollment and and Higher Ed marketers need to approach 163 00:11:39.559 --> 00:11:41.159 this, and I just want to kind of run it past you. He 164 00:11:41.240 --> 00:11:46.039 said we've got to stop acting like this is the alumni magazine and reviewing everything 165 00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:52.080 and getting approvals. You have to basically just kind of work, you know, 166 00:11:52.200 --> 00:11:54.559 get the students involved and just start doing it on a daily basis, 167 00:11:56.000 --> 00:11:58.639 and that's the only way you're gonna gain followers. And I had this conversation 168 00:11:58.720 --> 00:12:01.000 last week on a campus and, you know, the marketing team was like, 169 00:12:01.000 --> 00:12:03.480 well, this is the rules, we're gonna do one TIKTOK per week. 170 00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:07.960 One is by the admissions team and one by the marketing team, and 171 00:12:07.320 --> 00:12:11.919 I'm like, you're never going to get any followers that way because it's it 172 00:12:11.320 --> 00:12:16.960 doesn't fit the model of traditional, you know, marketing brand approval in a 173 00:12:18.080 --> 00:12:22.279 large organization. Yeah, when you think about content, there's a couple of 174 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:28.000 different approaches. There's the filmmaker approach. We're gonna make a movie and that 175 00:12:28.039 --> 00:12:33.600 movie is going to have talented actors and it's going to have a professional director 176 00:12:33.080 --> 00:12:37.360 and we're probably gonna have a lighting crew and a microphone and maybe even like 177 00:12:37.399 --> 00:12:41.600 a table of free food just off camera. Right it's a craft shop. 178 00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:46.240 And then you've got sort of the documentary style, which is we're just walking 179 00:12:46.240 --> 00:12:50.960 around at the camera and we'll fix it in edit. And tiktok very much 180 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:54.960 rewards the latter, not the former. In fact, most people who overproduce 181 00:12:56.679 --> 00:13:00.960 and sort of trying to make their tiktok's quote unquote, profect Chanel uh, 182 00:13:01.080 --> 00:13:05.039 it usually doesn't work as well as if it is a little more run and 183 00:13:05.080 --> 00:13:09.639 gun. There's a level of authenticity there which, frankly, used to be 184 00:13:09.720 --> 00:13:13.240 the case when instagram first came out. was certainly the case when vine first 185 00:13:13.279 --> 00:13:18.120 came out. So a lot of these neo platforms, because they start younger, 186 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:24.879 tend to Um tune their algorithm around kind of unofficial style content and then, 187 00:13:24.919 --> 00:13:28.200 as you get bigger and you've got more AD dollars from larger brands to 188 00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:31.919 play sometimes they start to tilt it back the other way towards a little bit 189 00:13:31.919 --> 00:13:35.480 more structured content. We'll see what happens with TIKTOK. Yeah, yeah, 190 00:13:35.600 --> 00:13:43.399 that's a good point. Another challenge that your company addresses is alignment between enrollments 191 00:13:43.480 --> 00:13:54.720 in either corporate operations or with sorry, thank you very much, Jay. 192 00:13:56.519 --> 00:14:03.159 Another challenge that convinced and convert addresses is alignement between enrollment and also marketing or 193 00:14:03.320 --> 00:14:09.279 corporate organization. Like to know if you could kind of explain the challenges that 194 00:14:09.320 --> 00:14:13.480 you address and how you fix them for organizations. Yeah, I mean one 195 00:14:13.519 --> 00:14:18.679 of the challenges that we see constantly when we work with higher ed is that 196 00:14:18.879 --> 00:14:24.480 many cases the enrollment marketing function and the enrollment marketing team is kind of isolated. 197 00:14:24.519 --> 00:14:28.360 They oftentimes have their own assignment, their own metrics, their own budget 198 00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:33.320 and that's not necessarily integrated into the enterprise. There's some obvious inefficiencies to do 199 00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:39.080 in marketing that way. But the bigger challenge is that in many cases enrollment 200 00:14:39.159 --> 00:14:45.519 marketing is writing checks that the operations of the university can't cash. So so 201 00:14:45.559 --> 00:14:48.639 they're saying this is what it's like to be a student here and please fill 202 00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:52.480 out this very complicated application that doesn't work on a mobile phone. And then 203 00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:56.200 somebody decides okay, yeah, I'm interested, and then they come for a 204 00:14:56.279 --> 00:14:58.440 tour, but the tour doesn't really say the things that they heard in the 205 00:14:58.519 --> 00:15:01.840 enrollment keeting. And then they show up on campus, they decide to matriculate 206 00:15:01.879 --> 00:15:07.039 and it's a different set of circumstances as well. So in business we wouldn't 207 00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:09.440 do it that way. Right, in a non higher ed world you would 208 00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:13.159 never do it that way. You would have a unified customer journey map that 209 00:15:13.240 --> 00:15:18.840 says, all right, what messages do we say about our business at the 210 00:15:18.879 --> 00:15:22.960 awareness phase? What messages do we say at the interest phase, what messages 211 00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:24.399 do we say at the conversion phase, what messages do we say at the 212 00:15:24.399 --> 00:15:30.200 advocacy phase? And those are aligned so that we're always telling a similar story 213 00:15:30.759 --> 00:15:35.120 and we're and we're changing that story based on funnel stage in Higher Ed. 214 00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:41.200 So often the story changes based on department and that causes some confusion, uh 215 00:15:41.240 --> 00:15:46.600 and and, frankly, some dissatisfaction amongst students and parents later down in the 216 00:15:46.679 --> 00:15:50.679 process. So aligning that and trying to get everybody sitting out of the same 217 00:15:50.759 --> 00:15:52.720 hymnal as one of the things that we've done a lot at convince and convert. 218 00:15:54.080 --> 00:15:58.559 Wouldn't you say to J that, based on that Um? You know, 219 00:15:58.639 --> 00:16:03.200 I've often and I know there's different, different modes of thinking about this 220 00:16:03.240 --> 00:16:04.919 and honestly, I think in the thirty years that I've worked in the Higher 221 00:16:06.039 --> 00:16:08.240 Ed Space, Um, I have seen a big shift in you know, 222 00:16:08.320 --> 00:16:11.759 thirty years ago, you you get a lot of cold stairs if you use 223 00:16:11.799 --> 00:16:15.919 the word customer or sales or anything that had to do. I mean, 224 00:16:15.960 --> 00:16:18.240 it was kind of like taboo to talk about, you know, the business 225 00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:22.840 of of higher education. I see that changing. But I see that in 226 00:16:22.919 --> 00:16:26.799 some like some schools, like, I'm going to use Ethernet per due, 227 00:16:26.200 --> 00:16:30.080 there's chief marketing officers sitting at the table, they are at the at the 228 00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:33.919 top of the table and they are driving a lot of of what's going on. 229 00:16:33.759 --> 00:16:37.039 Um. Other institutions that I work with, though a lot of times 230 00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:41.559 faculty. You are driving that and there's a lot of a lot of tension, 231 00:16:41.720 --> 00:16:45.360 a lot of challenges going on because, I mean, I talked to 232 00:16:45.559 --> 00:16:48.399 a market or the other day that said, Hey, I just got word 233 00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:51.080 that we have a new program that they want filled for fall and I have 234 00:16:51.159 --> 00:16:53.639 to market and fill it for the next three three months and I don't even 235 00:16:53.639 --> 00:16:56.759 know it's if it's market a bowl. I don't know if there's a desire 236 00:16:56.759 --> 00:17:02.080 in the marketplace for this particular program how, how are you working with your 237 00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:04.839 clients about that? I mean, is that something you're experiencing and it's and 238 00:17:04.839 --> 00:17:10.039 and how how do you help? You know that the marketing officers realize that 239 00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:12.240 they've they've got to have a seat there and they've got to have a voice 240 00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:19.200 at some level. We assist with that kind of change management. Uh, 241 00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:23.759 and in fact there's a number of large institutions where we've been really intimately involved 242 00:17:25.359 --> 00:17:29.000 in, I don't want to say centralizing marketing, because sometimes that takes on 243 00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:33.559 a negative connotation inside higher reed, but from a functional standpoint that's a little 244 00:17:33.559 --> 00:17:37.279 bit of how it goes. Like somebody is a CMO and we can decide 245 00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:41.279 what the unified strategy is and then here's what the department strategy is. So 246 00:17:41.319 --> 00:17:42.720 we've done a lot of that work with Arizona State, for example, and 247 00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:47.839 in other organizations that have a little bit more of a business style command and 248 00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:51.759 control structure. And then we've also worked with lots and lots of higher reed 249 00:17:51.839 --> 00:17:56.759 that has more of the traditional decentralized marketing approach that you just mentioned, Bart 250 00:17:56.799 --> 00:18:00.400 when when we are in the decentralized approach, oftentimes we advocate for a little 251 00:18:00.440 --> 00:18:04.359 bit more of a centralized Um way of doing things, but but typically that 252 00:18:04.519 --> 00:18:10.839 is that is a provost in president level decision that that supersedes our ability as 253 00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:15.559 consultants too effectually change. So when we have a decentralized system, the best 254 00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:19.440 thing you can do, in my estimation, is to really leak into centers 255 00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:23.519 of excellence to say look, we've got a whole bunch of of talented marketers 256 00:18:23.839 --> 00:18:29.200 on on staff in a bunch of different units on campus. Let's make sure 257 00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:33.759 that if somebody learns something, everybody learns something. So a lot of knowledge 258 00:18:33.799 --> 00:18:36.480 transfer, a lot of weekly meetings. In a lot of cases my team 259 00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:40.079 will actually create the agendas and run the meetings and say hey, this week 260 00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:45.359 we're gonna do a whole session for every marketer on campus about video, s 261 00:18:45.359 --> 00:18:51.039 e o or whatever the topic is, so that everybody kind of levels up, 262 00:18:51.079 --> 00:18:53.559 because if you don't have a structure where there's managers and directors and VPS, 263 00:18:53.559 --> 00:18:57.920 etcetera, where the knowledge transfer happens waterfowl style, you have to have 264 00:18:57.960 --> 00:19:03.799 a scenario where the knowledge transfer happens horizontally, like river style, and and 265 00:19:03.880 --> 00:19:07.079 that's the best way you can. You can still execute marketing. If somebody 266 00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:11.000 says, Hey, congratulations, you've got two months to Philip Program you've never 267 00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:12.839 heard of. Yeah, exactly, exactly. I think that there's a lot 268 00:19:12.839 --> 00:19:18.319 of common challenges. Whether it's a very small school or whether it's, you 269 00:19:18.359 --> 00:19:21.599 know, a large, d one school, there there's challenges that we all 270 00:19:21.680 --> 00:19:23.559 share. That's part of the reason why we're doing this podcast. So I'm 271 00:19:23.720 --> 00:19:30.720 happy that you're here. Try. Similarly, you're helping universities understand the communication 272 00:19:30.759 --> 00:19:34.799 modalities and how they can best utilize and communicate within them. Can you explain 273 00:19:34.799 --> 00:19:40.160 how you help universities with that? What I say modality, what I actually 274 00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:44.160 mean is the format of the communication. Is it text, is it audio? 275 00:19:44.359 --> 00:19:47.079 Is it video? Is it a puppet show? Is it, AH, 276 00:19:47.240 --> 00:19:48.880 you know, a cookie gram? There's a lot of ways to communicate 277 00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:52.720 these these days. Higher Reed has historically, of course, been I don't 278 00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:57.240 want to say addicted to, but certainly a proponent of written communication, and 279 00:19:57.319 --> 00:20:03.480 there's certainly nothing wrong with that. But probably more than any time maybe in 280 00:20:03.559 --> 00:20:10.240 recorded history, we have broader differences in modality preference than we maybe ever have. 281 00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:15.680 It is very, very true that younger people prefer not reading. In 282 00:20:15.720 --> 00:20:18.680 many cases it's I'll tell you a story about that. So when my son, 283 00:20:18.759 --> 00:20:22.119 who's now a junior at Indiana University, when he still lived at home, 284 00:20:22.119 --> 00:20:23.440 it is pretty common that we'd be having breakfast in the morning at the 285 00:20:23.480 --> 00:20:26.880 kind of the breakfast breakfast bar there. I'd be on my phone and he'd 286 00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:30.599 be on his phone and I look over and we'd both be on ESPN DOT 287 00:20:30.680 --> 00:20:33.920 com. We're both big sports fans, and we'd be on the exact same 288 00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:38.279 article, except I'd be reading the article and he'd be watching the video because, 289 00:20:38.319 --> 00:20:41.079 as many people know, it's very common on a site like that that 290 00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:45.799 they put a video on top and then the full text underneath, and I 291 00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:48.799 would be reading it because I am an old and he would be watching the 292 00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:52.319 video because he is a young now that is an oversimplification of reality, but 293 00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:57.799 not very much. The New York Times did a study last year where they 294 00:20:57.880 --> 00:21:03.599 interviewed like two thousand college students about their modality preferences, and my favorite quote 295 00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:07.559 in the whole study was from a college student who said every time I get 296 00:21:07.640 --> 00:21:12.839 an email I feel like I'm being stabbed. It's just something else for me 297 00:21:12.920 --> 00:21:21.480 to do. Yet how often does higher ed rely on email as like the 298 00:21:21.519 --> 00:21:26.039 exclusive means of student communication? And it is not at all atypical, and 299 00:21:26.039 --> 00:21:27.920 you, gentlemen both know this, as do many of your listeners, that 300 00:21:29.160 --> 00:21:33.160 the only reason these students are checking email is because the university might send them 301 00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:37.200 something. Like my son Ethan has like forty D unread emails. I just 302 00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:41.000 saw his phone. He came over for dinner last night and I'm like forty 303 00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:42.799 D unread emails. Who are these from? He's like I don't know, 304 00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:48.240 I don't check my email imminently. So we've just got to understand that we 305 00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:52.680 can't create content only in the formats that we prefer. We have to create 306 00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:57.720 content in the formats that our audience prefers and sometimes that means you've got to 307 00:21:57.720 --> 00:22:02.359 take the same message, the same story and make it in a bunch of 308 00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:07.480 different ways. Take the same message about Your Alumni Association and and what happens 309 00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:11.880 when you graduate in your first part of the Alumni Association. That's an important 310 00:22:11.880 --> 00:22:15.559 piece of communication. Do that in text, but also do it in audio 311 00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:18.240 as a series of podcasts, and also do it as a series of videos 312 00:22:18.440 --> 00:22:21.200 and also do it in direct mail. Do it all the different ways. 313 00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:25.200 There's no right answer. The right answer is making sure you create everything in 314 00:22:25.240 --> 00:22:29.039 the format that people actually want. We talk a lot about it on this 315 00:22:29.119 --> 00:22:33.319 show. Schools are really struggling today that make the same at spend work. 316 00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:38.000 CPMS are up eight nine year over year on facebook and instagram. Our College 317 00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:42.559 clients are no longer looking for rented audiences. They're looking for an owned community 318 00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:47.720 where they can engage students even before they apply. This is why Zemi has 319 00:22:47.759 --> 00:22:52.160 become so crucial for our clients. With over one million students, close to 320 00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:56.839 ten thousand five star ratings, consistently ranked as one of the top social laps 321 00:22:56.160 --> 00:23:00.440 and recently one of Apple's hot APPs of the week. There simply isn't anything 322 00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:04.200 out there like it and we have seen it all. Zem Not only provides 323 00:23:04.240 --> 00:23:08.640 the best space for student engagement but the most unique and actional data for the 324 00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:15.480 sixty college and university partners. We know firsthand from our clients that Zee me 325 00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:19.400 is a must have strategy for Gen z check them out now at colleges dot 326 00:23:19.480 --> 00:23:26.440 Zem dot com. That's colleges dot Z E M E dot Com. And 327 00:23:26.519 --> 00:23:30.400 yes, tell them Barton Troy sent you. I like. I like that 328 00:23:30.440 --> 00:23:37.440 because I think that not only do we need to two recommend or not only 329 00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:41.680 do we need to do recognize, but also, Um, basically allow them 330 00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:44.880 to have the choice and preference of how they do that. I mean, 331 00:23:44.920 --> 00:23:48.440 I love so many times when somebody says, what's your preferred way of communicating? 332 00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:49.000 Do you want to have a text? You want an email? Do 333 00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:52.319 you want to have a phone call? Well, certain times I'll want to 334 00:23:52.359 --> 00:23:56.599 text, other times I met one a phone call, young, old, 335 00:23:56.640 --> 00:23:59.079 it doesn't matter. We have our own preferences and I think that it's time 336 00:23:59.119 --> 00:24:02.720 that we really start to, you know, honor everybody's preferences, especially since 337 00:24:02.759 --> 00:24:03.920 there's so many ways and, as you said, there's not a right or 338 00:24:04.039 --> 00:24:07.200 wrong way to do it, but it's just a matter of the more we 339 00:24:07.240 --> 00:24:11.200 can do that. We talk so much about personalization Troy, and I've talked 340 00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:14.440 about that a lot. I'm sure you guys talk about that too, Jay, 341 00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:18.920 and the importance of especially for traditional Undergrad but even really anybody. Everybody 342 00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:23.359 likes to feel personalized and they like to feel recognized. Part of that personalization 343 00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:26.279 is not only, you know, serving up content that we know is going 344 00:24:26.319 --> 00:24:30.880 to be relevant to them, but doing it through modality it's going to be 345 00:24:30.880 --> 00:24:36.400 relevant to them as well. Absolutely, personalization is relevance and relevance is respect, 346 00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:41.039 and when you offer that respect, it becomes more useful and you gain 347 00:24:41.079 --> 00:24:45.480 more attention. It's a it's a simple formative but harder to do sometimes day 348 00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:47.880 to day. I would agree with that. I think that's an excellent point. 349 00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:52.160 So along that, thinking of personalization, I know that your company also 350 00:24:52.240 --> 00:25:00.400 helps schools with market research and personal development and the customer journey map being, 351 00:25:00.519 --> 00:25:07.839 and I believe the said Persona Development. How do you help them research that 352 00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:11.640 and develop it and then let them know how to best communicate with those personas? 353 00:25:14.799 --> 00:25:19.359 It's very common troy in in marketing and calms, especially in Higher Ed, 354 00:25:19.519 --> 00:25:26.000 to think of our constituencies based on age. Cohort very, very common 355 00:25:26.039 --> 00:25:30.720 for foundations and alumni associations. You've got the current student cohort, you've got 356 00:25:30.759 --> 00:25:33.920 the recent Grad Cohort, you've got the kind of mid career cohort, the 357 00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:38.160 late career corehor the retired cohort, right, and so you think, all 358 00:25:38.240 --> 00:25:41.839 right, let's look at the audience horizontally based on how old they are and 359 00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:45.680 in prison, wably, their life stage. Well, it turns out that 360 00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:49.400 that doesn't actually work. Um, psychologically right. It's much better off to 361 00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:57.680 understand what the motivations and relationship is between that alum and the university or college 362 00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:00.960 and that relationship up. As it turns out, based on lots of research 363 00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:06.279 we've done from many, many campuses, that relationship is often based on where 364 00:26:06.359 --> 00:26:10.400 they live, what they did in school when they were there, how many 365 00:26:10.480 --> 00:26:12.440 friends they had when they went to school, what activities they were in. 366 00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:17.400 So it's not so much well, if they're fifty, then they should really 367 00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:19.839 be a great candidate for a donation. It's based more so on were they 368 00:26:19.880 --> 00:26:22.720 really active when they're on campus, when they were there, etcetera. Etcetera. 369 00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:30.240 So that kind of research, which is based very much on attitudinal uh 370 00:26:30.920 --> 00:26:34.839 conditions, create richer, more useful personas than just basing it on ape. 371 00:26:34.839 --> 00:26:38.039 I love that and that conversation came up with a couple of clients last week 372 00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:41.200 with the idea that, you know, we've got to necessarily look at what 373 00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:45.799 we were talking about how to gather outcomes, you know, stories that we 374 00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:48.480 want to tell people and uh, you know, I think that sometimes we 375 00:26:48.559 --> 00:26:52.880 forget as higher ed marketers that, you know, really those outcomes are going 376 00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:56.400 to be based on the affinities that they had. And so more than likely, 377 00:26:56.799 --> 00:26:59.640 if they had a professor that was really a mentor to them and a 378 00:26:59.680 --> 00:27:03.759 friend and they've continued that relationship through that person is going to know a lot 379 00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:07.599 more than the official alumni office would. Um, you know, a student 380 00:27:07.640 --> 00:27:11.559 is going to just be communicating on facebook or or through email or through texting 381 00:27:11.599 --> 00:27:15.240 or whatever it is, with their with their mentor and with their those professors 382 00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:18.039 and those relationships that they had in that affinity group, whether it was a 383 00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:22.160 department or, you know, theater group or choral group or whatever it was. 384 00:27:22.519 --> 00:27:26.039 Those relationships are there and so I think it's so important that, as 385 00:27:26.119 --> 00:27:30.279 hired markets, we understand through the personas that you just described, but also 386 00:27:30.359 --> 00:27:33.759 to find out where does that knowledge live? And it usually is going to 387 00:27:33.839 --> 00:27:37.920 live deeper down in those affinity groups than it would in any kind of official 388 00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:41.599 database, and what we've got to do is figure out how to harvest it 389 00:27:41.640 --> 00:27:45.240 out of those places and start leveraging it and collecting it and managing in a 390 00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:49.519 way that we can then start to tell those stories. Yeah, start starting 391 00:27:49.599 --> 00:27:53.880 managing that data and collecting it while they're on campus. Has undergrads so often 392 00:27:53.960 --> 00:27:57.200 we start to collect the data once they leave campus, once they've graduated, 393 00:27:57.400 --> 00:28:02.920 and start doing surveys alumnives, etcetera, etcetera, instead of doing more undergrad 394 00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:06.799 surveys to start to build that profile which then can be used later, and 395 00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:10.720 especially now in this era of third party data going away and we're going to 396 00:28:10.839 --> 00:28:14.480 have to really rely on our own collected first and zero party data. The 397 00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:18.880 time to start learning more about your eventual alums is the second they set foot 398 00:28:18.920 --> 00:28:22.640 on campus for the first time, the day they come on the tour for 399 00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:26.319 the first time. What question did they ask on the tour of the tour 400 00:28:26.359 --> 00:28:29.559 guide? That should be in the database. Now, I understand that requires 401 00:28:29.599 --> 00:28:33.640 a lot of centralized operations that a lot of campuses just aren't ready to do 402 00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:36.880 yet, but that's the direction we're got for sure. Those who have the 403 00:28:36.920 --> 00:28:40.000 best data will win, period. I don't care what business you're in, 404 00:28:40.119 --> 00:28:44.000 because matters higher ed or you're selling cars or you're selling jewelry or selling hamburgers. 405 00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:48.200 Whoever knows the most will sell the most. I think it's a great 406 00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:49.880 way to put it. I DID A blog post a couple of years ago 407 00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:53.759 that was about kind of the the life cycle of a of a you know, 408 00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:56.640 of of a relationship of a higher ed to a student, and I 409 00:28:56.680 --> 00:29:00.160 started out with, you know, the prospect fae is I think I've figured 410 00:29:00.160 --> 00:29:03.759 out fifty two different, you know, points that they would be, you 411 00:29:03.759 --> 00:29:07.799 know, different persona points that they might be, all the way to a 412 00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:10.640 major donor who has their name on the, you know, a large building 413 00:29:10.640 --> 00:29:14.720 on campus. We have to be able to measure that and keep track of 414 00:29:14.759 --> 00:29:18.480 that and and keep that relationship continuing to grow all the way through. And 415 00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:22.240 No, not every student is going to be a major donor that's going to 416 00:29:22.319 --> 00:29:25.039 have their name on the building. We know that, but we do have 417 00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:27.200 the ability to keep that relationship going and I love that idea that you have 418 00:29:27.279 --> 00:29:32.599 of just being able to figure out that and collect that and and, you 419 00:29:32.640 --> 00:29:37.400 know, quantify and analyze and organize that into data. And, uh, 420 00:29:37.519 --> 00:29:40.720 you know, their tools are out there. It's just the discipline and the 421 00:29:40.759 --> 00:29:44.720 centrality of being able to do that took the words right out of my mouth. 422 00:29:44.759 --> 00:29:47.799 The technology is there right now, today, right it's not a big 423 00:29:47.799 --> 00:29:51.559 deal. It's not our moon launch or anything crazy. It's totally there. 424 00:29:51.599 --> 00:29:56.039 It's just getting the people aligned is so much harder than getting the technology and 425 00:29:56.079 --> 00:30:00.039 perfect. As we bring the episode to a closed, a like to know 426 00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:04.640 if there would be a final thought or an impactful piece of advice that you 427 00:30:04.680 --> 00:30:11.440 could offer our listeners that they could that they could utilize either right away or 428 00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:18.200 within the next week or so. I'll give you two. Uh. One 429 00:30:18.279 --> 00:30:22.039 on the strategy side, I would say it can be really frustrating for higher 430 00:30:22.119 --> 00:30:26.200 end marketers because there's always a very, very long list of things that they 431 00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:32.519 could or should or want to do. Usually the list is longer than their 432 00:30:32.559 --> 00:30:37.359 ability to execute on the list and that creates a lot of Um, I 433 00:30:37.400 --> 00:30:44.480 think, dissatisfaction and and just at some level on happiness amongst marketers in higher 434 00:30:44.559 --> 00:30:47.519 end. And so what I would tell folks out there is, you know, 435 00:30:47.559 --> 00:30:52.519 you can't you can't boil the ocean. Just set out to do a 436 00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:56.000 few things better every ninety days and eventually you'll be on top of it. 437 00:30:56.039 --> 00:30:59.680 When you when you look at the whole list it it seems too daunting. 438 00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:02.440 So you've got to focus on a few things and execute on those. And 439 00:31:02.480 --> 00:31:03.880 that's one of the things that our friend ethane perdue has been so good at. 440 00:31:04.160 --> 00:31:07.359 Say Hey, let's let's not let's not keep all the things in mind. 441 00:31:07.359 --> 00:31:11.240 That's his job at the CMO. Let's execute on a few very specific 442 00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:14.480 things, get those done and then move on to the next two or three 443 00:31:14.519 --> 00:31:17.640 things. It's a much better way to go about it. Uh. And 444 00:31:17.680 --> 00:31:21.880 then the second thing I would say on a more on a more tactical Um 445 00:31:22.119 --> 00:31:29.200 side is to understand that sometimes to get your core messaging seen, you have 446 00:31:29.319 --> 00:31:32.640 to wrap it up in messaging that's not escort. So, for example, 447 00:31:32.680 --> 00:31:37.440 we're working with a hired ED institution, I won't name which one, and 448 00:31:37.480 --> 00:31:40.599 their president said, you know, we're we're doing all this great work in 449 00:31:40.680 --> 00:31:44.799 research. How come when we put messages out in social media about that. 450 00:31:44.839 --> 00:31:47.480 It doesn't go anywhere. I'm like well, because it is great work, 451 00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:52.440 but it's not terribly interesting to everybody. It's a little bit dry. And 452 00:31:52.519 --> 00:31:56.200 so what we explained to this president was what I call the Candy, Candy 453 00:31:56.319 --> 00:32:01.480 Vegetables Philosophy. Candy Candy actables works like this. You put something out in 454 00:32:01.559 --> 00:32:06.720 social media that most people are gonna like. It's a it's a nostalgia post 455 00:32:06.839 --> 00:32:10.200 or it's something from the mascot or it's something that's a little more universally beloved. 456 00:32:10.200 --> 00:32:15.279 It's a campus building, it's a cheese steak restaurant near campus, something 457 00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:19.799 like that. It's a trivia question about something on campus. That gets the 458 00:32:19.799 --> 00:32:22.799 algorithm excited about your content. Then you put out another piece of candy, 459 00:32:22.839 --> 00:32:27.480 which gets the Algorithm even more excited about your content, and then you swoop 460 00:32:27.519 --> 00:32:30.839 in there with the vegetables Um and you get a little extra credit from the 461 00:32:30.839 --> 00:32:35.880 Algorithm because you've given them candy before. So this idea of Candy Candy vegetables 462 00:32:35.920 --> 00:32:39.960 we've actually tested many, many times scientifically and it really really works. Sometimes 463 00:32:40.039 --> 00:32:46.680 it's difficult to get some people in the administration to understand that like. Hey, 464 00:32:47.160 --> 00:32:52.359 it's not frivolity, it's marketing and and sort of understanding the difference. 465 00:32:52.400 --> 00:32:57.000 There's some requires some conversations sometime, but it really works. Thank you very 466 00:32:57.079 --> 00:33:00.559 much, Jay. Thank you so much for the wisdom that you've of into 467 00:33:00.599 --> 00:33:04.839 the half an hour that we've had with you. If someone would like to 468 00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:07.119 contact you, I usually ask this question, but you're truly a person that 469 00:33:07.119 --> 00:33:13.319 could just answer it and say Google me. But if someone really wanted to 470 00:33:13.359 --> 00:33:16.799 ask you a question and contact you personally, what would be the best direct 471 00:33:16.839 --> 00:33:22.400 way for them to do so? I'll give you to troy. I'm trying 472 00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:24.680 to over deliver here. First, go to convince and convert DOT COM. 473 00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:30.000 CONVINCE AND CONVERT DOT COM. That's our main website with lots of resources for 474 00:33:30.079 --> 00:33:34.400 hired specifically in marketers in general. And then I have a newsletter which, 475 00:33:34.400 --> 00:33:38.000 ironically, I put out via email. UH, probably a terrible idea. 476 00:33:38.279 --> 00:33:42.200 It's called the bare facts. Comes out twice a month. There's marketing, 477 00:33:42.279 --> 00:33:46.880 customer experience lessons, Tequila reviews, podcast recommendations like this one, book reviews. 478 00:33:47.119 --> 00:33:52.880 It's the bare facts dot com. B A e R. Sign Up. 479 00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:55.559 I'd love to have you a list everyone who is familiar with you is 480 00:33:55.599 --> 00:34:00.039 not surprised that you over deliver with everything you do and keep very much for 481 00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:07.599 being a guest cast part. Any final thoughts from you? Yeah, I 482 00:34:07.599 --> 00:34:09.440 just want to kind of pull out a few things of that I really think 483 00:34:09.480 --> 00:34:13.320 was valuable in this and I would encourage people to, you know, re 484 00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:15.320 listen to this. I mean there's so many really good nuggets in here that 485 00:34:15.320 --> 00:34:19.119 that Jay gave us today and uh, I really appreciate that, Jay. 486 00:34:19.159 --> 00:34:21.360 But a couple of things I just want to point out is that, you 487 00:34:21.400 --> 00:34:23.320 know, when you start tooking looking at this and you start looking at social 488 00:34:23.360 --> 00:34:28.159 media, when you look at content, you've got to understand that there's you 489 00:34:28.199 --> 00:34:30.000 know, yes, you can create that content, but several things that Jay 490 00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:32.360 said I want to really point out. There's three things. One is the 491 00:34:32.360 --> 00:34:36.480 modality understanding, you know, the different ways of doing it, and I 492 00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:38.159 really love the comment that he made about the fact that, you know what, 493 00:34:38.199 --> 00:34:40.920 you might have that one message, but I might need to go in 494 00:34:42.079 --> 00:34:45.280 email, texting, video, audio, there might be several different ways of 495 00:34:45.320 --> 00:34:50.159 delivering that message. Don't rely on just one. Don't think that Oh, 496 00:34:50.159 --> 00:34:52.079 we we told him, well, you told him, but you didn't tell 497 00:34:52.119 --> 00:34:55.119 them in their preference. And that goes to the second thing of starting to 498 00:34:55.119 --> 00:35:00.320 really identify who are the personas that we're talking to, whether that's spect of 499 00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:04.199 students that are traditional undergrad whether it's alumni, you know, moving beyond that 500 00:35:04.320 --> 00:35:07.079 what j called the horizontal, you know grouping of everything, but really kind 501 00:35:07.079 --> 00:35:10.960 of looking at that affinity grouping, really trying to kind of then identify those 502 00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:15.880 personas. And then that third item is just really starting to understand how you're 503 00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:17.000 going to do that and the ways you're going to do that. I really 504 00:35:17.039 --> 00:35:22.400 particularly like that Candy, Candy Vegetable example, where you know you've got to 505 00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:23.760 be able to do that, and that's I mean we talked about it being 506 00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:27.280 the algorithms and we talked about it with social media, but you know what, 507 00:35:27.320 --> 00:35:29.760 we all kind of like that. I mean, at the at the 508 00:35:29.840 --> 00:35:34.159 end of the day, our brains are wired to kind of look at things 509 00:35:34.159 --> 00:35:36.840 that we really enjoy and then look at things that we really need to look 510 00:35:36.880 --> 00:35:38.679 at, and that's why a lot of us suffer from some of the things 511 00:35:38.760 --> 00:35:42.840 we suffer from, whether it's a you know, not having the attention that 512 00:35:42.880 --> 00:35:45.760 we need to or or whatever that might be. That's just the way that 513 00:35:45.800 --> 00:35:47.960 we're wired sometimes, and being able to kind of understand that and work within 514 00:35:49.039 --> 00:35:52.199 that is really good, and so I'm just really grateful for for j being 515 00:35:52.199 --> 00:35:53.960 on here today. I would just also remind you, Um, you know, 516 00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:58.519 as I mentioned before, I first learned about J and I've learned a 517 00:35:58.519 --> 00:36:00.239 lot from J through his books. But you know, a couple that I 518 00:36:00.320 --> 00:36:04.400 really you know three that I'm going to point out. Utility, really good 519 00:36:04.440 --> 00:36:07.199 basics of content marketing and and and some of the social media elements. Hug 520 00:36:07.239 --> 00:36:10.320 Your haters, you know how to really kind of engage in relationships and how 521 00:36:10.360 --> 00:36:15.400 those things happen and how you you know, how you respond to those things. 522 00:36:15.719 --> 00:36:17.480 And then the talk triggers, you know, complete guide to creating customers 523 00:36:17.559 --> 00:36:21.119 with word of mouth. said, we didn't really talk about that today, 524 00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:23.920 but I think that's another really big element, especially when you talk about perspective 525 00:36:23.960 --> 00:36:30.159 students and and that generation Z um and and as we talk about generation Alpha 526 00:36:30.159 --> 00:36:31.519 coming. I mean, you know we've talked about that a few times. 527 00:36:31.519 --> 00:36:35.239 We had mark mccrendall on a few episodes ago with the idea of, you 528 00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:37.679 know, he's the leading expert in the world on generation Alpha. He talked 529 00:36:37.719 --> 00:36:40.360 to us about how that's going to be different from any other generation we're working 530 00:36:40.440 --> 00:36:45.480 with, and so start to educate yourself on that, understand that, because 531 00:36:45.519 --> 00:36:49.119 that's gonna be a big part of this word of mouth marketing. Um and 532 00:36:49.119 --> 00:36:52.320 and UH and again, just thank you, Jay. Really appreciate the time 533 00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:57.559 today. My pleasure. Thanks to both of you and everybody listening. If 534 00:36:57.960 --> 00:37:00.320 my team and I can help you, be glady to do so. Thanks 535 00:37:00.320 --> 00:37:06.039 so much. Are leading sponsor for the High Ed Marketer Podcast Zem, where 536 00:37:06.079 --> 00:37:13.480 students share stories and connecting exclusive college communities. Also by Kala solutions and education 537 00:37:13.559 --> 00:37:17.960 marketing and branding agency and finally by Think, patented, a marketing execution company 538 00:37:19.239 --> 00:37:27.039 combining print technology and personalization for higher engagement for colleges and universities. On behalf 539 00:37:27.159 --> 00:37:30.000 of Bart Kaylor, my co host. I'm troy singer. Thank you for 540 00:37:30.159 --> 00:37:37.639 listening. You've been listening to the Higher Ed Marketer. To ensure that you 541 00:37:37.719 --> 00:37:42.559 never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. 542 00:37:43.480 --> 00:37:45.960 If you're listening with apple podcasts. We'd love for you to leave a quick 543 00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:50.159 rating of the show. Simply tap the number of stars. Do you think 544 00:37:50.159 --> 00:37:52.760 the podcast deserves. Until next time,