The Future of PPC in Higher Ed Marketing

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:06.280 The High Red Marketering podcast is sponsored by the ZEMI APP enabling colleges and universities 2 00:00:06.480 --> 00:00:15.160 to engage interested students before they even apply. You're listening to the Higher Ed 3 00:00:15.240 --> 00:00:20.480 Marketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals in higher education. This show will 4 00:00:20.519 --> 00:00:25.399 tackle all sorts of questions related to student recruitment, donor relations, marketing trends, 5 00:00:25.399 --> 00:00:30.160 new technologies and so much more. If you're looking for conversations centered around 6 00:00:30.199 --> 00:00:34.359 where the industry is going, this podcast is for you. Let's get into 7 00:00:34.359 --> 00:00:45.840 the show. Welcome to the Higher Ed Marketer podcast. Today, Bart and 8 00:00:45.880 --> 00:00:51.600 I speak to P J Winzel and Marty Gray from ring digital and they're going 9 00:00:51.600 --> 00:00:57.359 to help us explain to our listeners the changes that are coming in the ways 10 00:00:57.439 --> 00:01:02.159 that we can execute lead generation. And Yeah, Troy, I think there's 11 00:01:02.200 --> 00:01:06.120 so much, so much attention to going on and I've seen so many clients, 12 00:01:06.200 --> 00:01:11.000 especially since the pandemic, really leaning into paper click campaigns, whether it's 13 00:01:11.040 --> 00:01:15.560 Google and search and display or Meta with facebook and instagram and other ones. 14 00:01:17.079 --> 00:01:21.439 Those are really good tools. Um The playing field is going to change real 15 00:01:21.519 --> 00:01:25.760 soon because Google is doing away with some cookie based Um metrics in the way 16 00:01:25.760 --> 00:01:29.280 that they're tracking people with cookies, and so that's going to really change a 17 00:01:29.319 --> 00:01:33.120 lot of the ways that we're actually doing paper, Click and Um. I 18 00:01:33.159 --> 00:01:34.920 really like the guys that ring because they've they've kind of approached it from a 19 00:01:34.920 --> 00:01:42.120 different standpoint, from a behavioral standpoint of actually understanding those devices that we carry 20 00:01:42.280 --> 00:01:46.000 and and knowing, you know, the location that we're at and what we're 21 00:01:46.560 --> 00:01:49.599 what our spending habits are and actually how we behave and how that might be 22 00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:53.319 a better predictor of a lead for institutions. And so this is a great 23 00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:57.519 conversation. I would really encourage to kind of listen and take some notes. 24 00:01:57.040 --> 00:02:00.560 Yeah, we really appreciate PG and party for helping us get this out to 25 00:02:00.599 --> 00:02:08.120 our listeners. Let's get to that conversation. As we approach all the important 26 00:02:08.120 --> 00:02:13.080 information with P J and Marty, I do want to ask one of you 27 00:02:13.800 --> 00:02:17.800 to tell us if there's anything that you've learned this week that's unique or interesting 28 00:02:17.840 --> 00:02:23.439 that you can share. Yeah, the very important information that I have to 29 00:02:23.439 --> 00:02:25.840 share with you, troy, is that when I don't eat thousands of calories 30 00:02:25.879 --> 00:02:30.400 of carbs every week, I feel really good. I'm on toll thirty and 31 00:02:30.439 --> 00:02:37.400 I'm like, I've never thought so clearly for my clients ever before. Thank 32 00:02:37.479 --> 00:02:39.560 you. I know both thirty is a big thing for a lot of people 33 00:02:39.639 --> 00:02:43.479 and they've had great success. And, by the way, everyone that was 34 00:02:43.560 --> 00:02:47.639 PJ. Both PJ and Marty are from ring digital and they're going to share 35 00:02:47.719 --> 00:02:53.919 some of their wisdom and things that they offer their clients through ring digital. 36 00:02:53.199 --> 00:02:57.080 And Marty, if you would, if you can kind of introduce us to 37 00:02:57.319 --> 00:03:01.400 you and P J and ring digital. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks so much, 38 00:03:01.960 --> 00:03:07.240 so much, Troy. This is great. So Pj is our president 39 00:03:07.360 --> 00:03:13.280 and CO founder, fearless leader of Ring Digital, and I'm I'm a guy 40 00:03:13.360 --> 00:03:16.879 who, uh, PJ, sought out to say, Hey, I've got 41 00:03:16.919 --> 00:03:22.080 this, this idea on how to bring truth, transparency and accuracy to the 42 00:03:22.120 --> 00:03:27.719 digital space and I would like some help, Um, educating and, Uh 43 00:03:27.840 --> 00:03:31.000 and, like pj said, thinking clearly for his clients. So I've been 44 00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:36.240 guilty of the whole thirty a time or two. Myself. Thank you. 45 00:03:36.599 --> 00:03:40.599 And Ring Digital, tell us a little bit about what you do. Yeah, 46 00:03:40.840 --> 00:03:44.520 absolutely, P j. What are you going to take that? Oh, 47 00:03:44.599 --> 00:03:47.879 yeah, sure, yeah, so, ring. Um, ring was 48 00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:53.479 founded in two thousand and fourteen and Um, we really got heavily into the 49 00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:58.759 digital space a couple of years after that, and primarily what we do is 50 00:03:59.199 --> 00:04:03.759 helping connect our clients better with their target audience. Um. We had clients 51 00:04:03.759 --> 00:04:09.000 who were really frustrated, Um, to put it lightly, that they didn't 52 00:04:09.039 --> 00:04:13.840 know who they were advertising too. We're really unsure about the attribution models that 53 00:04:13.960 --> 00:04:17.720 they were getting and Um. And just to put it very, very frankly, 54 00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:21.040 they didn't know if the ads they were buying we're getting in front of 55 00:04:21.079 --> 00:04:25.040 the right people and they didn't really know how to tell if they were. 56 00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:30.480 and Um. So ring takes an approach that is, we think, rather 57 00:04:30.560 --> 00:04:35.800 unique. Uh, and we we really focus on connecting our our clients with 58 00:04:36.120 --> 00:04:41.519 their target audience in a way that can be measured and that they know, 59 00:04:41.720 --> 00:04:46.120 going in ahead of time who exactly they're targeting. Um, like literally the 60 00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:51.759 names, the addresses and all the information that they need to know about their 61 00:04:51.800 --> 00:04:56.160 target audience. We can actually tell them who they are. Um, in 62 00:04:56.199 --> 00:05:00.040 many cases, Um, we can tell them a lot more, and often 63 00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:02.920 our clients in the Higher Ed space we're going to get into this. I'm 64 00:05:02.920 --> 00:05:06.399 share a little bit. Um, they've got their own data and so we're 65 00:05:06.399 --> 00:05:10.800 helping them use that data in a more effective way. So that's what ring 66 00:05:10.879 --> 00:05:13.360 is all about. It's about, you know, leveraging the power of digital 67 00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:16.199 we think, in the next in the next gen sort of connective way. 68 00:05:17.439 --> 00:05:23.279 Thank you, PJ, and both Bart and I wanted to have you on 69 00:05:23.319 --> 00:05:30.759 the podcast to help us explain and demonstrate to our listeners the difference between behavioral 70 00:05:31.319 --> 00:05:39.040 lead generation models and cookie lead generation models and, uh, which one is 71 00:05:39.079 --> 00:05:42.480 better, which one's in the future, and that's something that your company has 72 00:05:42.519 --> 00:05:47.439 experience with. So we were hoping to educate everyone today on the difference and 73 00:05:47.560 --> 00:05:53.759 where we see the industry, especially for Higher Ed clients, going forward. 74 00:05:54.240 --> 00:05:57.639 So if you would, one of you kind of explain the difference between the 75 00:05:57.680 --> 00:06:01.000 two. Yeah, I'm happy to do that. So you know, on 76 00:06:01.079 --> 00:06:06.759 your last podcast I was listening to you guys, talked to Jay bear and 77 00:06:06.959 --> 00:06:13.319 one of the things that you guys talked about was the need for universities to 78 00:06:13.959 --> 00:06:19.000 be collecting more and more of their own proprietary data. The question is what 79 00:06:19.040 --> 00:06:25.000 to do with said data. What do I do with this? and Uh 80 00:06:25.040 --> 00:06:28.279 so leave that there for a moment. Uh, the importance of that it 81 00:06:28.360 --> 00:06:32.519 will become clear soon. In the past Um and for the last I mean 82 00:06:32.560 --> 00:06:40.279 G's ten, twelve more years than that, the programmatic digital space. So 83 00:06:40.519 --> 00:06:44.879 digital ads, although they're through Um, you know, Google's AD network or 84 00:06:45.000 --> 00:06:49.439 other ad networks, have all been based on a type of behavioral targeting Um, 85 00:06:49.800 --> 00:06:54.480 which is foundationally based on the cookie. So there you know, when 86 00:06:54.480 --> 00:06:57.759 we talk about behavioral Ad Targeting, Um, there's a couple of ways to 87 00:06:57.800 --> 00:07:02.879 think of it. But Online, uh, you know, behaviorally online based 88 00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:09.120 targeting, behavioral online target so how do people behave online? and that is 89 00:07:09.519 --> 00:07:14.120 what cookies have been used to track and basically store that information. Um. 90 00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:19.560 However, with the rise of automation and more and more bought traffic, uh, 91 00:07:19.639 --> 00:07:24.279 and less and more demand, frankly, for transparency, that model has 92 00:07:24.480 --> 00:07:28.600 stopped working. Google has recognized that and that's why they have started working on 93 00:07:28.959 --> 00:07:31.399 Um. Everything. You know, the the flock, the flock flop, 94 00:07:31.600 --> 00:07:35.279 so to speak. We've heard about and then this this cookie shell for the 95 00:07:35.319 --> 00:07:39.120 cookie cliff, as they call it. You know, cookies are going away. 96 00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:44.839 This model of of targeting Um from an online behavioral standpoint currently is going 97 00:07:44.879 --> 00:07:47.519 away. Um. So the question is, how do we? How do 98 00:07:47.600 --> 00:07:54.800 we target? And that's where the university's data comes in and and, frankly, 99 00:07:54.839 --> 00:08:01.600 other hard data stamp sources. What you know, instead of gathering online 100 00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:07.560 behavioral data from cookies batched into segments by big companies like oracle or Blue Kai, 101 00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:11.279 Um, you know, who are, you know, selling that data 102 00:08:11.360 --> 00:08:18.920 to Google and others, instead of those cookie segments Um being used, what's 103 00:08:18.959 --> 00:08:22.040 going to be used? We think, and we think the more elegant use 104 00:08:22.199 --> 00:08:30.600 is simply to use proprietary hard offline data and match that to Um Hardware specs. 105 00:08:30.680 --> 00:08:33.399 So let's say it's a device, i. d targeting or some other 106 00:08:33.879 --> 00:08:45.200 real, live device type identifier that connects the user, the target, with 107 00:08:45.519 --> 00:08:48.840 the data that the university has, because a lot of cases that data is 108 00:08:48.879 --> 00:08:52.360 really good. and Um, I'll take it. I'll take a step back 109 00:08:52.360 --> 00:08:58.279 there and to say also that the reason why rings started down that road, 110 00:08:58.279 --> 00:09:01.759 and this is because because that's how we talk, is more to do with 111 00:09:01.200 --> 00:09:07.440 the impact that we saw from offline based data, and that is to say 112 00:09:07.639 --> 00:09:09.279 Um, and this is not universally true. So don't push me all the 113 00:09:09.320 --> 00:09:13.799 way through on this, because online behavioral stuff is it's powerful too. But 114 00:09:15.240 --> 00:09:20.679 if I go online to men's health or to you know, MSNBC or whatever, 115 00:09:20.120 --> 00:09:24.399 it doesn't necessarily mean like it doesn't say as much about me as if 116 00:09:24.440 --> 00:09:28.799 I were to go into dixporting goods and purchase something. So, in other 117 00:09:28.799 --> 00:09:31.000 words, what we do with our bodies in the physical world and what we 118 00:09:31.039 --> 00:09:35.120 do with our money in the in the world, whether it's online or in 119 00:09:35.159 --> 00:09:37.440 the physical world, what we do with our money and our time in the 120 00:09:37.480 --> 00:09:45.159 real world has a more significant impact than what we what website, we happen 121 00:09:45.279 --> 00:09:52.720 to click onto or scroll down. And because that is true inherently, we 122 00:09:52.799 --> 00:09:56.200 need to be able to market two people based on that behavior, that real 123 00:09:56.279 --> 00:10:00.799 world behavior, if we really want to have an impact. And so that's 124 00:10:00.799 --> 00:10:03.200 where we start from, and so I hope that's a little bit of, 125 00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:05.840 uh an answer to what you're getting at. That's really good, PJ, 126 00:10:05.919 --> 00:10:09.120 and let me just kind of get my head wrapped around this, because I 127 00:10:09.120 --> 00:10:13.399 mean, you know, I don't think I'm a typical I carry my phone 128 00:10:13.399 --> 00:10:18.000 pretty much everywhere I go. My phone is a piece of hardware that, 129 00:10:18.440 --> 00:10:22.720 if I recall, it's like got a Mac address or some weird name like 130 00:10:22.759 --> 00:10:26.720 that that is unique only to that phone. And what you're telling me is 131 00:10:26.759 --> 00:10:33.279 that that my my data is connected to that, that piece of hardware, 132 00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:37.519 whether I'm sitting in a parking lot or I just drove through campus and I'm 133 00:10:37.519 --> 00:10:41.240 with my kids on vacation and we decided to swing over and just kind of 134 00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:46.159 do a quick walk through campus, but nobody knows that we're there. I 135 00:10:46.240 --> 00:10:50.080 can be you can. You can identify that because I'm part of your database, 136 00:10:50.240 --> 00:10:54.440 or maybe you bought a name and you can say, okay, this 137 00:10:54.679 --> 00:10:58.840 address my home address and I'm connected. My home address is connected to these 138 00:11:00.159 --> 00:11:03.759 pieces of hardware. All of a sudden, now you can start to understand 139 00:11:03.879 --> 00:11:07.799 my behavior based on my my hardware. But not only that, but another 140 00:11:07.840 --> 00:11:11.679 thing you said was that my spending. So the fact that I'm spending everything 141 00:11:11.679 --> 00:11:16.440 with my with my visa or my Master Card, I can also that's another 142 00:11:16.519 --> 00:11:20.279 piece of hardware, if you will, that can be tracked and and that 143 00:11:20.360 --> 00:11:24.960 behavior shows up. Is that correct? And Yeah, that's right. So 144 00:11:26.600 --> 00:11:31.919 the things that we do in the real world have been sold two companies like 145 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:35.440 Visa Mx. you know, all the banks, all the travel websites, 146 00:11:35.879 --> 00:11:41.879 all of these folks we have. We have long since made the trade off 147 00:11:41.279 --> 00:11:45.440 that we are okay with people selling our data as long as we get a 148 00:11:45.480 --> 00:11:48.600 really good service, and often it's a free service. I mean that's the 149 00:11:48.759 --> 00:11:52.000 entire backbone of facebook, right. Um. So you know that that theory, 150 00:11:52.240 --> 00:11:58.120 but we've had that theory working in operation in our society for decades now 151 00:11:58.279 --> 00:12:03.960 and that's how the banks and credit card companies make money and in another way. 152 00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:07.200 So that data is all. It's always been available. You know, 153 00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:11.200 the direct mail companies have had it and many other people have had it, 154 00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:16.639 but it's it's not been utilized very well by digital marketers and frankly, Um, 155 00:12:16.720 --> 00:12:20.159 it's, you know, the location based services that you're talking about. 156 00:12:20.200 --> 00:12:22.399 That that's part of the key. And so it's not just and it's not 157 00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:24.960 even just the MAC idea. I mean the people don't realize that there are 158 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:33.120 many identifiers on your phone and when you travel somewhere, uh, the location, 159 00:12:33.159 --> 00:12:37.440 there is going to be an APP that allows for tracking of your location 160 00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:41.720 and that APP will provide that and and it will be in the bidstream and 161 00:12:41.799 --> 00:12:46.879 that stuff will be pulled down and yeah, that's super creepy. But I'll 162 00:12:46.919 --> 00:12:50.240 just say this. People, you know, on one hand they want their 163 00:12:50.240 --> 00:12:52.519 privacy and that's a good thing, but on the other hand, they want 164 00:12:52.519 --> 00:12:58.000 ads their pertinent to them. They don't want ads that are superfluous. I 165 00:12:58.080 --> 00:13:01.919 love getting an ad, for instance, that is going to show me a 166 00:13:01.919 --> 00:13:05.720 new, uh, you know, gadget or something that I might be interested 167 00:13:05.799 --> 00:13:09.080 in. I want ads their target for me. I don't you know, 168 00:13:09.159 --> 00:13:13.600 and that's and that's why I think it's going to be extraordinarily important, um, 169 00:13:13.639 --> 00:13:16.000 you know, for our clients and for others to realize the power of 170 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:20.279 of, you know, that offline data, and it's just connecting everything in 171 00:13:20.320 --> 00:13:22.200 a different way. So it's all this data has always been available and it's 172 00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:26.440 getting better and better, but it's a matter of connecting it in a new 173 00:13:26.480 --> 00:13:28.240 way, if that makes sense. We talk a lot about it on the 174 00:13:28.279 --> 00:13:33.480 show. Schools are really struggling today to make the same at spen work, 175 00:13:33.879 --> 00:13:37.759 CPMS are up eighty nine year over year. On facebook and instagram. Our 176 00:13:37.759 --> 00:13:43.200 College clients are no longer looking for rented audiences. They're looking for an owned 177 00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:46.679 community where they can engage students even before they apply. This is why Zemi 178 00:13:46.759 --> 00:13:52.200 has become so crucial for our clients, with over one million students, close 179 00:13:52.240 --> 00:13:56.960 to ten thou five star ratings consistently ranked as one of the top social laps 180 00:13:56.320 --> 00:14:01.200 and recently, one of Apple's hot APPs of the week. There simply isn't 181 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:03.519 anything out there like it, and we have seen it all. Zem Me 182 00:14:03.559 --> 00:14:09.159 not only provides the best space for student engagement but the most unique and actional 183 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:13.679 data for the one sixty college and university partners. We know firsthand from our 184 00:14:13.679 --> 00:14:18.720 clients that Ze me is a must have strategy for Gen Z. Check them 185 00:14:18.720 --> 00:14:24.440 out now at colleges dot Zem dot com. That's colleges dot Z E M 186 00:14:24.639 --> 00:14:31.080 E dot Com. And yes, tell them Barton Troy sent you. Yeah, 187 00:14:31.159 --> 00:14:33.399 that does. And and so that really starts to open up a whole 188 00:14:33.399 --> 00:14:37.919 lot of different things, because I mean, and I guess I'm curious too, 189 00:14:37.960 --> 00:14:39.879 that, like your example of going to men's health versus, you know, 190 00:14:39.960 --> 00:14:46.200 walking into sporting goods and buying something. Um, I have to guess 191 00:14:46.200 --> 00:14:50.759 that there's some inaccuracies in the data that we're relying on from this this cookie 192 00:14:50.879 --> 00:14:54.240 or you know, I've got a ton of clients that you are ponying up, 193 00:14:54.399 --> 00:14:58.320 you know, a couple five hundred thousand dollars a month to to to 194 00:14:58.480 --> 00:15:01.759 do you know, facebook ads or Google ads and and you know, I've 195 00:15:01.799 --> 00:15:05.639 seen it work very well with bigger budgets, but, you know, smaller 196 00:15:05.639 --> 00:15:09.559 budgets it almost feels like, you know you're going to vegas and just doing 197 00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:13.519 a little bit of a crap shoot. Um, help me understand a little 198 00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:16.759 bit about how all that changes, because, I mean, if there's inaccurate 199 00:15:16.840 --> 00:15:20.320 data out there, you know there's a lot of things that are coming in 200 00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:26.080 the net that aren't worth anything. That's right, and big companies are able 201 00:15:26.120 --> 00:15:28.879 to do that because of the scale they're able to scale. But I mean 202 00:15:28.879 --> 00:15:33.360 if you're a mid sized business and you're spending maybe a couple hundred thousand dollars 203 00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:37.720 a year, or a university, uh, that maybe is spending, Um, 204 00:15:37.759 --> 00:15:41.799 you know, a million dollars on digital every year or a half a 205 00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:46.759 million. You don't have the luxury, uh, to be able to cast 206 00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:52.279 that wide of the net. Uh, and frankly, nobody should want to 207 00:15:52.320 --> 00:15:56.039 do that. Nobody should want to waste money. The reason why it's become 208 00:15:56.080 --> 00:16:00.720 more and more inaccurate is just having to do with the way that technology has 209 00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:04.559 evolved, and so those cookies, it's all built on the back of a 210 00:16:04.600 --> 00:16:10.679 technology that was never meant to hold this uh, kind of marketing. And 211 00:16:10.720 --> 00:16:14.519 so one way to check you you can check your cookie footprints, so to 212 00:16:14.559 --> 00:16:18.200 speak. You can go to Oracle and request, UM, request that. 213 00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:22.639 So you would be shocked. Uh. You know, I didn't know that 214 00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:25.960 I was also a woman. I didn't know that I was in five age 215 00:16:25.960 --> 00:16:29.960 categories. I thought I was a young guy, but apparently I'm also sixty 216 00:16:30.039 --> 00:16:33.200 five and older. I mean, they've got me in every age category, 217 00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:37.799 Um, and they've got me in both female male. They've got me with 218 00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:41.440 interests that I could care less about. I didn't know I took up fishing, 219 00:16:41.559 --> 00:16:45.200 you know, like all these different things. And so don't forget, 220 00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:48.360 PJ, you live in six different states, I know. I know I'm 221 00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:55.360 very affluent, UM, like. These are the kinds of things, though, 222 00:16:55.399 --> 00:17:00.039 that when we started looking into this, like, but again for a 223 00:17:00.039 --> 00:17:03.519 mid sized business and a small business especially, Um, you know, when 224 00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:08.160 you're targeting your ads this way, you just you don't have the scalability that 225 00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:11.440 you know, an IBM or Dick Sporting goods, to use the example. 226 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:15.400 I mean you don't have thirty five million dollars to to throw into this, 227 00:17:15.799 --> 00:17:21.440 because for them, like, you got to remember it's not just about the 228 00:17:21.480 --> 00:17:25.319 sale, the straight sales conversion. For them it's a branding play and they're 229 00:17:25.319 --> 00:17:27.599 totally willing to brand everybody the same thing with paper click. If you think 230 00:17:27.599 --> 00:17:33.519 about this, the idea is is not just about Um, it's not just 231 00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:40.839 about, you know, targeting a certain segment. With that you're really casting 232 00:17:40.880 --> 00:17:44.640 a wide net because even if you did get a non Bot right bart that 233 00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:48.079 would that would click three of then, if it's a real person, how 234 00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:49.799 do you know? I mean the minute, how do you know they're part 235 00:17:49.799 --> 00:17:53.279 of your target, target audience? Um, the minute you want to do 236 00:17:53.319 --> 00:17:57.920 any kind of targeting, you want to bring targeting into the picture, even 237 00:17:57.920 --> 00:18:03.440 with paper click right, then you are you are layering on the same cookie 238 00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:07.920 back backbone, and so you're still relying on that and and that's a problem. 239 00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:12.240 I mean so that that's what we're trying to kind of just educate people 240 00:18:12.279 --> 00:18:15.319 about and say, like, this might have been an elegant solution, and 241 00:18:15.319 --> 00:18:18.519 it is a really cool solution. If you think about how the cookie model 242 00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:22.880 came together, maybe ten years ago or fifteen years ago, a long time. 243 00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:26.480 It's it's time is flying, but now it's just with the rise of 244 00:18:26.480 --> 00:18:30.359 automation and so many other Um, so many other issues with the data. 245 00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:34.519 It's it's just become less effective and we don't think the universities can really afford 246 00:18:34.599 --> 00:18:42.559 to be that that ineffective with such a competitive atmosphere. PJ and Marty, 247 00:18:42.640 --> 00:18:48.279 so is it accurate when I say that the paper click or the cookie based 248 00:18:48.359 --> 00:18:53.319 model would be described as a real life targeting model versus where we would like 249 00:18:53.440 --> 00:18:57.240 to go or what might be a little more effective as the behavioral model? 250 00:18:57.799 --> 00:19:07.200 Well, UM, right now industry speak is a little Um, it's a 251 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:11.839 little fluid. So, for instance, if you specify that, and which 252 00:19:11.880 --> 00:19:15.119 is why I think we're asking good questions, is so important. When people 253 00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:19.359 say behavioral, some we've encountered behavioral as. People think of it as online. 254 00:19:19.640 --> 00:19:26.480 They believe online behavioral based targeting. Like they're thinking online behavioral. So 255 00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:29.400 that's why we have to ask like, well, what kind of behavioral targeting 256 00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:32.880 are you talking about? And so you've just phrased it in a way that 257 00:19:33.279 --> 00:19:37.920 you know we don't encounter as much, but it's probably actually more how it 258 00:19:37.960 --> 00:19:41.839 should be phrased. But yeah, behavioral targeting. That's why you have to 259 00:19:41.839 --> 00:19:45.680 get you like well, do you mean like based on purchase history or credit 260 00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:48.960 score, or you know something that people like? Real data points? Are 261 00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:52.319 you talking about online behavioral like based on the websites that people have visited? 262 00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:55.519 And that those are the kinds of questions you have to get down to. 263 00:19:56.240 --> 00:20:00.279 Thank you, PJ. So, keeping in mind that we're talking to higher 264 00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:06.720 end marketers, if you can kind of guide us in the conversation to what 265 00:20:06.759 --> 00:20:11.160 are you recommending us to go to? Yeah, absolutely, this is Marty. 266 00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:14.400 Sorry, Peter, are you going to say something? I can now 267 00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:18.759 go for it. All right. Well, this is where this is the 268 00:20:18.839 --> 00:20:26.160 part that I absolutely love, is to take these concepts and these ideas that 269 00:20:26.680 --> 00:20:30.799 and bring them to reality for folks. And so you know, there's always 270 00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:33.319 going to be new technology out there. Um. One of the things that 271 00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:38.599 we're doing is uh Um is both creepy but a lot of fun. Whenever 272 00:20:38.599 --> 00:20:41.640 we're talking with people and they say to us, wow, this is really 273 00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:47.079 effective as a consumer. Are really effective as a marketer, but kind of 274 00:20:47.079 --> 00:20:52.640 creepy as a consumer, we know that they've got the concept down Um. 275 00:20:52.680 --> 00:20:56.480 And so what I mean by that is some of the new stuff that we're 276 00:20:56.480 --> 00:21:03.319 doing is automatic content record mission or or, for Short, a C R 277 00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:10.079 and that is just simply put that if you are watching something on your smart 278 00:21:10.119 --> 00:21:15.200 tv in your home and let's say you're a university and your buying ad space 279 00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:22.519 on that on that TV, through the digital means, you see someone get 280 00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:27.559 served with a university a AD. Well, let's say Your University B. 281 00:21:29.079 --> 00:21:33.759 We can actually see what content is being displayed on that TV screen, that 282 00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:38.039 SMART TV screen in that home and then almost like like like race car, 283 00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:44.279 you can Nascar, you can draft and you could then a day later or 284 00:21:44.359 --> 00:21:49.359 to serve an ad for your university because you just saw that that ad was 285 00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:56.519 served for university a. So pretty powerful stuff. But what is really exciting 286 00:21:56.640 --> 00:22:03.400 goes back to this this real world data that PJ was talking about, when 287 00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:08.839 that is the foundational starting point and the Foundational Building Block of what you're doing 288 00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:15.359 the real world behavior. We put that data to work and then we're able 289 00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:19.759 to the gold standard for us is the match back or just the comparison of 290 00:22:21.279 --> 00:22:26.759 spreadsheet as your list of targets and Spreadsheet B is now your list of enrolled 291 00:22:26.799 --> 00:22:30.839 students in your institution. So here's an example of that. We had a 292 00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:36.920 top five sec school come to us and you know, they this won't come 293 00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:38.759 as a surprise to a lot who are listening in on this, and that 294 00:22:38.920 --> 00:22:45.759 is that they spend thousands of dollars every single year on research, and that 295 00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:49.359 research is who are my underserved markets? Who are the people that we need 296 00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:52.400 to be reaching out to? How do we get and then, naturally, 297 00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:56.559 you're left with those questions. How do we get in front of those people? 298 00:22:56.519 --> 00:23:02.480 So this school specifically, as we were talking with them, they came 299 00:23:02.519 --> 00:23:08.519 across Um an underserved universe, as we like to call them, of students, 300 00:23:08.680 --> 00:23:15.480 which was low income gap schools for pell grants, and so what they 301 00:23:15.559 --> 00:23:21.640 had was a list of twenty thousand people that that we're on their pell grant 302 00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:26.119 list, target list, and so what we did was, along with their 303 00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:30.599 direct mail, along with their search engine optimization, their paper click, their 304 00:23:30.640 --> 00:23:37.640 their billboards, TV, radio, we injected this into the sum of all 305 00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:42.160 of their marketing parts, and so what we did was bring to the attention 306 00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:48.000 of these first generation students who thought that they may not be able to attend 307 00:23:48.079 --> 00:23:52.359 the university, that there was a spot for them and in fact the university 308 00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:56.799 wanted them to come to them specifically. So what we ended up doing was 309 00:23:56.839 --> 00:24:03.160 taking that same list and survey, uh, digital display and non skippable pre 310 00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:10.519 roll video ads in browsers and APPs directly into the devices within those same households 311 00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:17.519 that we're on that literal Excel spreadsheet list. And then, Um, we 312 00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:22.920 we narrowed that down to thirty five hundred students who raise their hand and filled 313 00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:29.640 out an application. So we narrowed down applicants or possible applicants, to thirty 314 00:24:29.720 --> 00:24:33.799 five hundred students. And here's what we then found is we then took that 315 00:24:33.880 --> 00:24:40.240 list of thirty five hundred students and started targeting them with different messaging. Now 316 00:24:40.279 --> 00:24:45.599 that you have interest, your real world behavior is I'm interested in your university, 317 00:24:45.079 --> 00:24:49.000 and now we're going to continue to tweak that message and narrow it down 318 00:24:49.119 --> 00:24:53.680 and get to you specifically. So at the end of the campaign, when 319 00:24:53.680 --> 00:24:57.559 we compared the two spreadsheets, it was who did we target? Because we 320 00:24:57.799 --> 00:25:00.920 predetermined that and we know that, just like direct mail, we love to 321 00:25:00.960 --> 00:25:06.079 say all the time this is like direct mail, only for digital. And 322 00:25:06.119 --> 00:25:14.599 so what we do is we found that of the students that enrolled, h 323 00:25:15.599 --> 00:25:19.359 three thousand we targeted, little over three thousand we targeted and as a control 324 00:25:19.400 --> 00:25:26.359 group we left off a little over four hundred to target with only their direct 325 00:25:26.359 --> 00:25:30.599 mail and other meats, but we left digital out. For those folks that 326 00:25:30.759 --> 00:25:38.720 received the injection of our digital marketing, fifty one of those three thousand students 327 00:25:40.599 --> 00:25:47.279 are now enrolled in the institution, compared to only twenties five percent of students 328 00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:52.279 are enrolled who did not receive our digital marketing. So the conversion on that 329 00:25:52.359 --> 00:25:56.240 lift yield as as you know, every this is on the mind of every 330 00:25:56.279 --> 00:26:02.880 admissions and enrollment person in any institution. How do I lift the number of 331 00:26:02.920 --> 00:26:07.240 applicants and then how do I yield or keep the most amount of those possible 332 00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:15.640 as they move through their enrollment matriculation process? So you know, it's having 333 00:26:15.880 --> 00:26:23.720 a lift or a two point to six x increase in their conversion is staggering, 334 00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:30.359 especially when we know that these universities needs to be so careful with their 335 00:26:30.440 --> 00:26:33.480 dollars and a lot of times, you know, these are public dollars and 336 00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:38.119 you need to be able to account for every dollar, every dime, every 337 00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:44.279 penny that's spent on these on these campaigns. So let me let me just 338 00:26:44.359 --> 00:26:45.359 kind of tease that out a little bit, Marty, because I mean you're 339 00:26:45.400 --> 00:26:48.960 you're talking about some, you know, large sec school and you know, 340 00:26:49.079 --> 00:26:53.720 university type schools. I know for a fact that just about every school, 341 00:26:53.839 --> 00:26:56.359 I mean when when you start even looking at schools that are, you know, 342 00:26:56.680 --> 00:27:02.799 a thousand and above metric metric relation of student population, there you know 343 00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:07.559 everybody does students search and people have been doing student search for decades where, 344 00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:11.319 you know, it used to be the fact that you'd go and buy the 345 00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:15.640 A C T test registration list or the S A t test registration list and 346 00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:19.119 and you know you can still do that. There's other there's other places out 347 00:27:19.119 --> 00:27:23.759 there now that are offering similar lists that you can purchase, whether it's niche 348 00:27:23.839 --> 00:27:29.400 or or um or uh, you know, there's a ton of them. 349 00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:32.400 But the point is is that, you know, people are investing anywhere between, 350 00:27:32.559 --> 00:27:34.359 you know, I don't know how much money, but they're buying five, 351 00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:40.319 fifty thousand names or a hundred thousand names, seniors, junior, sophomores, 352 00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:42.960 and they're typically going through a traditional you know, we're gonna send an 353 00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:47.480 email, we're gonna send them text we're gonna send them postcards, we're gonna 354 00:27:47.519 --> 00:27:51.160 try to generate some leads out of that. But what I hear you saying 355 00:27:51.240 --> 00:27:55.240 is that if I have a list and I have an address, that is 356 00:27:55.279 --> 00:27:57.920 my key to be able to then start to inject this digital elements that you're 357 00:27:57.920 --> 00:28:03.559 that you're talking about, rather than relying on hoping that, my perspective, 358 00:28:03.559 --> 00:28:07.079 student is going to open their email or or, you know, hoping that 359 00:28:07.119 --> 00:28:10.920 they're gonna, you know, look at the direct mail, which is effective. 360 00:28:11.640 --> 00:28:17.440 You're telling me that I can also uploade these lists to a tool like 361 00:28:17.480 --> 00:28:22.440 what you guys do, and then start injecting ads into the household as part 362 00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:27.119 of that campaign. Yes, and that's going to get the quickest return, 363 00:28:27.279 --> 00:28:32.880 because that's the lift, yield, nurture part of this Um. So you're 364 00:28:33.799 --> 00:28:37.880 spot on. And then P J mentioned the data aspect of this is, 365 00:28:38.079 --> 00:28:41.319 you know, a lot of institutions that we're talking with, both large and 366 00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:45.759 smaller institutions, a lot of folks that used to be a requirement to have 367 00:28:45.880 --> 00:28:49.599 your a C T and s a t score, so they would buy those 368 00:28:49.680 --> 00:28:55.319 lists specifically. Well, a lot of institutions have have dropped that because they 369 00:28:55.359 --> 00:29:00.000 see it as a barrier to entry for the student. And so because, 370 00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:03.200 as you know, the all this data that PJ was mentioning. You know 371 00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:07.599 we have. This goes back to the creepy part. Like there's up to 372 00:29:07.640 --> 00:29:14.359 a thousand different data points in our dictionaries of of of identify Rs, of 373 00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:19.279 who people are, household income, Um, you know, credit score, 374 00:29:19.880 --> 00:29:22.680 Um, you know what type of gas do you put in your car? 375 00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:26.440 I should probably stop before people like it's so creeped out that they click end 376 00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:32.400 on this thing. Um, but you know it's so we can really do 377 00:29:32.519 --> 00:29:37.720 both. The quickest return, however, that higher education is going to receive 378 00:29:37.599 --> 00:29:45.039 through through a partnership in doing something like this, is is through their lift 379 00:29:45.119 --> 00:29:51.200 yield lists, because we we all know this right. It's it's easier to 380 00:29:51.200 --> 00:29:56.119 to have a conversation with someone or to start a conversation or continue with someone 381 00:29:56.119 --> 00:30:00.920 who's interested versus someone who is off the Ray. do or may not know 382 00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:06.079 you will trust the institution or the brand just yet. And so, to 383 00:30:06.160 --> 00:30:08.359 your point, you know we have. We have, you know, smaller 384 00:30:08.559 --> 00:30:18.000 university relationships where they've they've purchased nine plus names and they're excited to put that 385 00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:21.960 data to work. And you can, you can bifurcate those lists, you 386 00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:26.000 can you can sparse them out and say to the sophomores that we want to 387 00:30:26.039 --> 00:30:33.079 start having a conversation with, let's send them drip campaigns of, you know, 388 00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:37.519 just you know, less frequent contact, but we're still getting in front 389 00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:41.799 of them. And then the juniors you intensify that a little bit and the 390 00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:45.920 seniors you really ramp that up. And so you can do both. So 391 00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:49.960 to answer your question, you really can do both, with the nurturing and 392 00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:55.720 also the prospecting. But the nurture is absolutely where you're going to have the 393 00:30:55.839 --> 00:31:02.480 quickest return, because folks are already interested in having a conversation. There's an 394 00:31:02.480 --> 00:31:07.240 interesting thing that happens to in the mark in the digital marketing world, with 395 00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:11.799 when it comes to lists, um to. Just to clarify, it's not 396 00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:19.200 that traditional digital agencies haven't been able to take lists and use lists before Um, 397 00:31:19.240 --> 00:31:22.599 but there is. So if you were to talk to an agency, 398 00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:25.440 can you take this s a t list? Can you take this intender's list? 399 00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:27.559 Can you take this list, Field List? They'll say yes, but 400 00:31:27.720 --> 00:31:32.880 it's what do you do with that list? And so there's a difference between, 401 00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:37.720 for instance, this this new way of approaching digital advertising that Marty just 402 00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:40.799 described. For one of our universities. There's a difference between that and what 403 00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:45.400 traditionally folks have done with lists, because in the past they might inject that 404 00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:48.319 list, they might take that but what they will do is they'll take it 405 00:31:48.359 --> 00:31:52.440 to somewhere like a live ramp, which still is using a cookie based model. 406 00:31:52.680 --> 00:31:56.400 But what they'll do is they'll take that list of hard names addresses and 407 00:31:56.480 --> 00:32:00.319 they will model on top of that cookie, say egments. So they'll say 408 00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:07.160 we want to match these names and addresses to profiles based on online behavioral data 409 00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:10.440 that, let's say, an oracle or someone else has. So what you're 410 00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:17.000 doing is you're taking really good data and you're you're you're adding a level of 411 00:32:17.279 --> 00:32:22.039 uncertainty and really, at this point in the game, bad targeting. You 412 00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:28.279 know, uh, you remember caddyshack, bag caddying, like you're adding some 413 00:32:28.400 --> 00:32:31.200 bad caddying into it. Um. So this, this is this is Um, 414 00:32:31.599 --> 00:32:35.279 it's just something for you know, if you're a marketer and you're a 415 00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:37.519 marketing director and you're saying my agency, I'll ask my agency if they can 416 00:32:37.519 --> 00:32:39.720 do this, ask them like, well, were you taking that data? 417 00:32:39.759 --> 00:32:45.079 How are you going to approach this with this data? Because that's a really 418 00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:47.400 telling thing. If they're just going to like upload it to live ramp or 419 00:32:47.440 --> 00:32:52.359 somewhere else, then essentially it's all wasted. It's it's that you're you're back 420 00:32:52.400 --> 00:32:59.440 to square one essentially. Okay, so just one thing I want to kind 421 00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:00.720 of clarify little bit, Marty, on what you said. You said you 422 00:33:00.759 --> 00:33:06.359 talked about these hundreds and thousands of data points. One thing that kind of 423 00:33:06.400 --> 00:33:08.960 went away. Um, and I've got a lot of people that are listening 424 00:33:09.039 --> 00:33:13.599 on this this show that are going to be faith based institutions and up until 425 00:33:13.640 --> 00:33:15.400 about three or four years ago, part of the A C T S, 426 00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:22.640 a t, you know, pre you know test questionnaire was about your religious 427 00:33:22.640 --> 00:33:25.599 affiliation and your denomination. A lot of kids didn't understand that. A lot 428 00:33:25.599 --> 00:33:29.559 of kids didn't know what that to put in, but it was some data 429 00:33:29.640 --> 00:33:32.079 that they could say, I want to be able to buy a list of, 430 00:33:32.839 --> 00:33:36.000 you know, students who are part of the Baptist Church or part of 431 00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:39.279 the Presbyterian Church or whatever that is. That's went away and so there's there's 432 00:33:39.279 --> 00:33:43.000 a there's a blind spot now and there's there's places that they can go and 433 00:33:43.039 --> 00:33:47.119 get that and things like that. Does your data provide you does does your 434 00:33:49.400 --> 00:33:52.039 the tools provide with big data? I mean, if we if we're getting 435 00:33:52.039 --> 00:33:55.720 down into, you know, the details of credit scores and things like that, 436 00:33:57.359 --> 00:34:00.359 I'm sure there's some ways to be able to identify or affiliate some kind 437 00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:08.920 of religious activity as well. Is that true? That is yes, yeah, 438 00:34:09.079 --> 00:34:12.880 so in the data. You know. We've, you know, even 439 00:34:13.079 --> 00:34:16.119 been asked to do that before and have executed it. So it's absolutely in 440 00:34:16.159 --> 00:34:20.599 the data. Okay, because that brings me to my next question. Is 441 00:34:20.599 --> 00:34:22.039 that now, all of a sudden, if I bought this list, you 442 00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:27.440 know, and I've got a hundred thousand names, it seems to me like 443 00:34:27.519 --> 00:34:30.000 I can give that list to someone like yourselves, or somebody does the work 444 00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:34.039 that you do be able to then come back and say, okay, I 445 00:34:34.039 --> 00:34:36.599 want you to take this list and I want you to identify those people that 446 00:34:36.679 --> 00:34:38.840 have these key elements that I want. I want to have, you know, 447 00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:44.960 this kind of UH income, household income, because I do, I 448 00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:47.519 do want my first Gen students and my pel grant students, but I also 449 00:34:47.559 --> 00:34:52.920 kind of want full paced, you know, students that that I can kind 450 00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:55.920 of, you know, make it make some net revenue on for my university. 451 00:34:57.079 --> 00:34:59.519 I want to identify, you know that. I want to identify some 452 00:34:59.599 --> 00:35:05.840 religious affiliation and understand there that that household does have that as a part of 453 00:35:05.880 --> 00:35:07.920 their lifestyle. And and then I want to be able to then take that 454 00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:13.639 hundred thousand lists and now I'm down to let's say now I want to do 455 00:35:13.719 --> 00:35:17.960 something with that, even if it's a brand awareness campaign before they get into 456 00:35:19.039 --> 00:35:22.679 my you know, my my yield campaign that I'm going to do after they 457 00:35:22.679 --> 00:35:27.400 get accepted. Is that a possibility to that I'm starting to serve brand awareness 458 00:35:27.440 --> 00:35:30.280 ads, you know, in on Hulu and things like that, to those 459 00:35:30.320 --> 00:35:36.719 households. Yeah, absolutely. The the awareness factor is also, like you 460 00:35:36.760 --> 00:35:40.159 said, very important. And when it comes to the TV, there are 461 00:35:40.519 --> 00:35:45.880 lots of different ways, Um, to get in front of people. But 462 00:35:45.079 --> 00:35:51.280 it goes to what PJ said before. Any time you take that list, 463 00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:57.119 I like to think of it as Um. There's that that list is powerful 464 00:35:57.360 --> 00:36:00.639 because that list is direct. It normally has as a first name, a 465 00:36:00.760 --> 00:36:05.679 last name, physical street address, city, state, Zip, you know, 466 00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:09.079 enter phone number, whether it's, you know, your mobile phone or 467 00:36:09.119 --> 00:36:13.320 your second mobile phone. Um, you know in a whole host of other 468 00:36:13.400 --> 00:36:17.559 things. And when, like PJ said, when you are taking that list 469 00:36:17.639 --> 00:36:22.840 and you're uploading it to a live ramp, for example, you're you're immediately 470 00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:30.559 diluting the power when their directness of of that data. And so what this 471 00:36:30.679 --> 00:36:35.639 does is then is then say whether you're a large school or you're a small 472 00:36:35.679 --> 00:36:40.239 school. Like there's to your in state, out of state point or question. 473 00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:45.440 Um, it's really interesting. There was a Midwest University and they actually 474 00:36:45.440 --> 00:36:52.840 gave us three lists and those three lists they there. Their priority list was 475 00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:59.519 number two, and priority list number two was was out of state students, 476 00:36:59.559 --> 00:37:04.079 trying to get them to come to the university. And so we did advertising 477 00:37:04.159 --> 00:37:09.119 for seventy five days and UM, when we advertise for seventy five days list 478 00:37:09.320 --> 00:37:16.400 they had thirty nine students in role from all three lists, but thirty three 479 00:37:16.559 --> 00:37:22.400 of the thirty nine students those were students from list number two that were out 480 00:37:22.440 --> 00:37:27.239 of state students. So you can just like you said, do you want 481 00:37:27.280 --> 00:37:30.960 to bring awareness to your in state students, to your out of state students, 482 00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:36.159 to your stopout students, to your pel grant students? What it transfers 483 00:37:36.199 --> 00:37:38.880 students? There's a ton of cool things that you can do, especially when 484 00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:44.320 it comes to transfer students. And Uh, I think the other thing to 485 00:37:44.400 --> 00:37:47.239 keep in mind here is especially when it comes to the to the TV, 486 00:37:47.599 --> 00:37:52.000 and honestly, guys like TV is probably a whole another segment in and of 487 00:37:52.079 --> 00:37:55.719 itself. Um, so I won't I won't delve into that too much here, 488 00:37:55.760 --> 00:38:02.920 but being able to actually not target an area by by a demographic or 489 00:38:04.920 --> 00:38:10.440 media. Yeah, so being able to actually go into the household and target 490 00:38:10.519 --> 00:38:17.280 on someone's TV based off of the list of that starting point gives supreme confidence 491 00:38:17.960 --> 00:38:22.960 in in the directness of whether it is branding or it is specifically for the 492 00:38:23.000 --> 00:38:34.199 purpose of Um of enrollment. That's awesome. Thank you, Marty, and 493 00:38:35.199 --> 00:38:38.519 just listening to you and unfortunately we're going to have to bring our show to 494 00:38:38.599 --> 00:38:43.679 a close, but you just opened up another chapter that I'm sure that we 495 00:38:43.719 --> 00:38:46.639 could talk about for fifteen or twenty minutes and in a few minutes I want 496 00:38:46.639 --> 00:38:51.360 to give you an opportunity to share your contact information for those who would be 497 00:38:51.400 --> 00:38:55.400 interested in that next chapter. But we love to end our episodes of the 498 00:38:55.440 --> 00:39:02.960 podcast by asking if there's a piece of advice dealing with what we've discussed today 499 00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:09.079 that you could give a higher red marketer that they could implement easily. Yeah, 500 00:39:09.119 --> 00:39:14.480 I would the advice. I to two pieces of advice. The first 501 00:39:14.480 --> 00:39:20.719 one would be PJ alluded to this earlier, but ask good questions. When 502 00:39:20.800 --> 00:39:24.760 you turn over a list, do you even whether you're turning so if it's 503 00:39:24.800 --> 00:39:29.239 your list, Um, what are you doing with that list? What are 504 00:39:29.280 --> 00:39:32.000 you doing with that data? How are you using that list and data? 505 00:39:32.559 --> 00:39:37.239 If it's not your list or it's not your data and you are using it, 506 00:39:37.280 --> 00:39:38.760 do you own it? Are you leasing it? Like what is what 507 00:39:38.960 --> 00:39:45.280 is happening when you you hand over any of your information or when you do 508 00:39:45.760 --> 00:39:49.639 so called by something from another organization in terms of data? Do you own 509 00:39:49.639 --> 00:39:52.760 it and those kinds of things. But ask good questions and you know, 510 00:39:53.079 --> 00:39:59.079 most most of the folks that that we uh come, you know come up 511 00:39:59.119 --> 00:40:01.519 against. It is probably the the wrong phrasing, but a lot of folks 512 00:40:01.599 --> 00:40:07.760 like there. You know, they're they're open to describing what they do and 513 00:40:07.800 --> 00:40:10.920 how they do it. So have that conversation and Um, and look for 514 00:40:10.960 --> 00:40:15.760 ways that you can fill gaps. Um. As far as the advice that 515 00:40:15.800 --> 00:40:21.440 I would give, when it comes to all of the lists that people have 516 00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:28.079 in any institution, they're low hanging fruit, so to speak, is going 517 00:40:28.119 --> 00:40:32.320 to be their lift yield list. Those who know the university have some trust 518 00:40:32.360 --> 00:40:37.880 in the institution, those are the people, especially because there are there are 519 00:40:37.960 --> 00:40:45.519 fewer students and therefore more institutions going after those fewer students. Injecting this into 520 00:40:45.559 --> 00:40:50.199 a lift yield campaign. That would be my advice, is how how they 521 00:40:50.280 --> 00:40:59.960 can use this to instantly see the return to to help set their their enroll 522 00:41:00.360 --> 00:41:09.559 in motion in a predictable and demonstrable way. Marty, thank you very much 523 00:41:09.599 --> 00:41:15.400 for that. Both you and PJ have given us and our listeners a lot 524 00:41:15.480 --> 00:41:17.360 to think about and, I think, a lot to follow up on. 525 00:41:19.039 --> 00:41:23.840 With that in mind, would you both offer contact information for those listeners who 526 00:41:23.920 --> 00:41:28.360 would like to reach out to learn more about this topic? Or maybe some 527 00:41:28.400 --> 00:41:31.199 of US absolutely want to go first. I'm just going to offer your information. 528 00:41:36.079 --> 00:41:37.760 Okay. So, so here's what I'm going back to the beginning of 529 00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:43.199 the show here. What I've learned is if you want more to do, 530 00:41:43.960 --> 00:41:49.280 call PJ, because every time I have a conversation with this guy I find 531 00:41:49.320 --> 00:41:52.239 myself with more to do than when I called them before I called him. 532 00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:58.000 So, with that in mind, sure, yeah, my email address is 533 00:41:58.119 --> 00:42:04.719 Marty m a R why at Ring Dot Digital, R I N G dot 534 00:42:04.800 --> 00:42:08.679 digital, and it's there's no dot com. We get asked that all the 535 00:42:08.719 --> 00:42:14.199 time. It's just Marty at ring dot digital, and the same thing is 536 00:42:14.239 --> 00:42:19.079 true for our website. If you check out ring dot digital Um and then 537 00:42:19.559 --> 00:42:25.960 forward slash higher education Um, that is another great way to just to check 538 00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:30.159 out how we've done some some pretty neat things in the Higher Ed space. 539 00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:36.639 So and and really we we love to educate. That's the most important thing. 540 00:42:36.719 --> 00:42:40.159 We love to educate and we love to see people succeed and as long 541 00:42:40.199 --> 00:42:44.599 as those two things are happening, than you know, the world's the world's 542 00:42:44.639 --> 00:42:53.079 a better place. Thank you, Marty. Also, PJ, thank you 543 00:42:53.159 --> 00:43:00.199 for helping us get this message out and hopefully broadening some minds and giving marketers 544 00:43:00.280 --> 00:43:05.159 something else to think about and letting them know what's in store for them in 545 00:43:05.199 --> 00:43:07.400 the future. Yeah, there's so many really good things on this episode and 546 00:43:07.400 --> 00:43:09.400 I would encourage you to go back and listen to some of it, and 547 00:43:09.559 --> 00:43:12.880 you might even want to go back and listen to a few other episodes. 548 00:43:12.920 --> 00:43:16.239 I Remember Roosevelt Smith talked about big data on an episode a few a few 549 00:43:16.239 --> 00:43:21.920 months ago, Jay Bears, pja referenced earlier. Um. We talked about 550 00:43:21.920 --> 00:43:23.800 that, I think, on episode sixty nine, and I think that there's 551 00:43:23.840 --> 00:43:29.800 also a really good um discussion in some of this with with the University of 552 00:43:29.800 --> 00:43:31.840 Illinois as well, and so take a look at those and listen to those 553 00:43:31.880 --> 00:43:35.280 episodes. But I think the thing I want everybody to walk away with and 554 00:43:35.320 --> 00:43:38.719 think about is that what you've known as kind of the gold standard, with 555 00:43:38.760 --> 00:43:44.320 the cookie based type of ways of of you know lead generation and generating you 556 00:43:44.360 --> 00:43:47.159 know, PPC ads, that's gonna Change whether we like it or not. 557 00:43:47.559 --> 00:43:52.159 Google's policy of cookie is gonna is going to really change things, uh, 558 00:43:52.199 --> 00:43:55.519 in the summer of nine three, and so we've got to really be ready 559 00:43:55.519 --> 00:43:59.159 and we've got to start looking and I think PJ's comment about, you know, 560 00:43:59.199 --> 00:44:02.360 asking the questions and and really starting to educate yourself is a really good 561 00:44:02.360 --> 00:44:06.079 way to look at that and then also kind of open your mind too. 562 00:44:06.599 --> 00:44:08.519 I mean I spend my wife and I are kind of addicted to a couple 563 00:44:08.519 --> 00:44:12.880 of Um, Hulu episodes, you know Hulu shows, and we watch a 564 00:44:12.880 --> 00:44:17.559 Canadian serial show called the Murdoch mysteries and and, uh, they run ads 565 00:44:17.639 --> 00:44:21.119 during that and I know that those ads are targeted to my home. I 566 00:44:21.119 --> 00:44:23.239 can tell that when I watched the ads, Um. But I think there's 567 00:44:23.280 --> 00:44:27.400 a lot of creative things going on and over the top television with the streaming 568 00:44:27.440 --> 00:44:30.960 devices, and I think there's also creative divide things going on within our home 569 00:44:31.519 --> 00:44:35.960 that are being targeted to our I. P into our to our different devices. 570 00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:39.199 And so just start to take a take, Um, take a break 571 00:44:39.239 --> 00:44:43.840 and look at that and start to observe how you're being marketed to as a 572 00:44:43.840 --> 00:44:45.840 consumer and then kind of flip that around and say, how can I do 573 00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:50.079 that for my for my institution? And so I think this has been a 574 00:44:50.079 --> 00:44:53.039 great conversation. Thank you, PG, thank you, Marty, and appreciate 575 00:44:53.079 --> 00:45:02.400 a lot. Absolutely. Yeah, thank you, guys. The hired marketer 576 00:45:02.559 --> 00:45:08.920 podcast is sponsored by Kaylor's solutions and education, marketing and branding agency and by 577 00:45:08.920 --> 00:45:16.440 think packing don I almost made it without a mistake. What's the time stamp, 578 00:45:16.480 --> 00:45:23.480 Bart? Thank you. I'm going to start that again. The Higher 579 00:45:23.599 --> 00:45:30.159 Ed Marketer podcast is sponsored by Kaylor solutions and education, marketing and branding agency 580 00:45:30.559 --> 00:45:36.159 and by think patented a marketing execution, printing and mailing provider of Higher Ed 581 00:45:36.280 --> 00:45:39.639 Solutions. On behalf of my co host Bart Kaylor, I'm troy singer. 582 00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:45.400 Thanks again for joining us. You've been listening to the Higher Ed Marketer. 583 00:45:46.079 --> 00:45:50.679 To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your 584 00:45:50.719 --> 00:45:54.559 favorite podcast player. If you're listening with apple PODCASTS, we'd love for you 585 00:45:54.639 --> 00:45:59.119 to leave a quick rating of the show. Simply tap the number of stars 586 00:45:59.119 --> 00:46:14.079 do you think the podcast deserves. Until next time, H