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Aug. 30, 2022

The Future of PPC in Higher Ed Marketing

The Future of PPC in Higher Ed Marketing

Since the pandemic, many higher ed marketers have gone to pay-per-click ads to generate leads. In the near future, Google is changing its cookie-based metrics andthe playing field will change significantly. Today’s guests have a new approach to generating leads for institutions. 

PJ Wenzel and Marty Gray are the President and Vice President of Ring Digital, and their goal is to help their clients efficiently and effectively reach their target audience without the reliance on PPC. PJ and Marty will explain these coming changes in PPC marketing and how higher ed marketers can effectively use their data. 

Join us as we discuss:

  • Why real-life targeting can be more effective than online behavioral targeting? 
  • Different examples of how Ring Digital helps higher ed marketers reach their target audience
  • PJ and Marty’s advice that higher ed marketers can use immediately. 

The Higher Ed Marketer podcast is sponsored by Caylor Solutions, an Education Marketing and Branding Agency, and by Think Patented, a Marketing Execution, Printing and Mailing provider of Higher Ed solutions.

    

 

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:06.280 The High Red Marketering podcast is sponsored by the ZEMI APP enabling colleges and universities 2 00:00:06.480 --> 00:00:15.160 to engage interested students before they even apply. You're listening to the Higher Ed 3 00:00:15.240 --> 00:00:20.480 Marketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals in higher education. This show will 4 00:00:20.519 --> 00:00:25.399 tackle all sorts of questions related to student recruitment, donor relations, marketing trends, 5 00:00:25.399 --> 00:00:30.160 new technologies and so much more. If you're looking for conversations centered around 6 00:00:30.199 --> 00:00:34.359 where the industry is going, this podcast is for you. Let's get into 7 00:00:34.359 --> 00:00:45.840 the show. Welcome to the Higher Ed Marketer podcast. Today, Bart and 8 00:00:45.880 --> 00:00:51.600 I speak to P J Winzel and Marty Gray from ring digital and they're going 9 00:00:51.600 --> 00:00:57.359 to help us explain to our listeners the changes that are coming in the ways 10 00:00:57.439 --> 00:01:02.159 that we can execute lead generation. And Yeah, Troy, I think there's 11 00:01:02.200 --> 00:01:06.120 so much, so much attention to going on and I've seen so many clients, 12 00:01:06.200 --> 00:01:11.000 especially since the pandemic, really leaning into paper click campaigns, whether it's 13 00:01:11.040 --> 00:01:15.560 Google and search and display or Meta with facebook and instagram and other ones. 14 00:01:17.079 --> 00:01:21.439 Those are really good tools. Um The playing field is going to change real 15 00:01:21.519 --> 00:01:25.760 soon because Google is doing away with some cookie based Um metrics in the way 16 00:01:25.760 --> 00:01:29.280 that they're tracking people with cookies, and so that's going to really change a 17 00:01:29.319 --> 00:01:33.120 lot of the ways that we're actually doing paper, Click and Um. I 18 00:01:33.159 --> 00:01:34.920 really like the guys that ring because they've they've kind of approached it from a 19 00:01:34.920 --> 00:01:42.120 different standpoint, from a behavioral standpoint of actually understanding those devices that we carry 20 00:01:42.280 --> 00:01:46.000 and and knowing, you know, the location that we're at and what we're 21 00:01:46.560 --> 00:01:49.599 what our spending habits are and actually how we behave and how that might be 22 00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:53.319 a better predictor of a lead for institutions. And so this is a great 23 00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:57.519 conversation. I would really encourage to kind of listen and take some notes. 24 00:01:57.040 --> 00:02:00.560 Yeah, we really appreciate PG and party for helping us get this out to 25 00:02:00.599 --> 00:02:08.120 our listeners. Let's get to that conversation. As we approach all the important 26 00:02:08.120 --> 00:02:13.080 information with P J and Marty, I do want to ask one of you 27 00:02:13.800 --> 00:02:17.800 to tell us if there's anything that you've learned this week that's unique or interesting 28 00:02:17.840 --> 00:02:23.439 that you can share. Yeah, the very important information that I have to 29 00:02:23.439 --> 00:02:25.840 share with you, troy, is that when I don't eat thousands of calories 30 00:02:25.879 --> 00:02:30.400 of carbs every week, I feel really good. I'm on toll thirty and 31 00:02:30.439 --> 00:02:37.400 I'm like, I've never thought so clearly for my clients ever before. Thank 32 00:02:37.479 --> 00:02:39.560 you. I know both thirty is a big thing for a lot of people 33 00:02:39.639 --> 00:02:43.479 and they've had great success. And, by the way, everyone that was 34 00:02:43.560 --> 00:02:47.639 PJ. Both PJ and Marty are from ring digital and they're going to share 35 00:02:47.719 --> 00:02:53.919 some of their wisdom and things that they offer their clients through ring digital. 36 00:02:53.199 --> 00:02:57.080 And Marty, if you would, if you can kind of introduce us to 37 00:02:57.319 --> 00:03:01.400 you and P J and ring digital. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks so much, 38 00:03:01.960 --> 00:03:07.240 so much, Troy. This is great. So Pj is our president 39 00:03:07.360 --> 00:03:13.280 and CO founder, fearless leader of Ring Digital, and I'm I'm a guy 40 00:03:13.360 --> 00:03:16.879 who, uh, PJ, sought out to say, Hey, I've got 41 00:03:16.919 --> 00:03:22.080 this, this idea on how to bring truth, transparency and accuracy to the 42 00:03:22.120 --> 00:03:27.719 digital space and I would like some help, Um, educating and, Uh 43 00:03:27.840 --> 00:03:31.000 and, like pj said, thinking clearly for his clients. So I've been 44 00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:36.240 guilty of the whole thirty a time or two. Myself. Thank you. 45 00:03:36.599 --> 00:03:40.599 And Ring Digital, tell us a little bit about what you do. Yeah, 46 00:03:40.840 --> 00:03:44.520 absolutely, P j. What are you going to take that? Oh, 47 00:03:44.599 --> 00:03:47.879 yeah, sure, yeah, so, ring. Um, ring was 48 00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:53.479 founded in two thousand and fourteen and Um, we really got heavily into the 49 00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:58.759 digital space a couple of years after that, and primarily what we do is 50 00:03:59.199 --> 00:04:03.759 helping connect our clients better with their target audience. Um. We had clients 51 00:04:03.759 --> 00:04:09.000 who were really frustrated, Um, to put it lightly, that they didn't 52 00:04:09.039 --> 00:04:13.840 know who they were advertising too. We're really unsure about the attribution models that 53 00:04:13.960 --> 00:04:17.720 they were getting and Um. And just to put it very, very frankly, 54 00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:21.040 they didn't know if the ads they were buying we're getting in front of 55 00:04:21.079 --> 00:04:25.040 the right people and they didn't really know how to tell if they were. 56 00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:30.480 and Um. So ring takes an approach that is, we think, rather 57 00:04:30.560 --> 00:04:35.800 unique. Uh, and we we really focus on connecting our our clients with 58 00:04:36.120 --> 00:04:41.519 their target audience in a way that can be measured and that they know, 59 00:04:41.720 --> 00:04:46.120 going in ahead of time who exactly they're targeting. Um, like literally the 60 00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:51.759 names, the addresses and all the information that they need to know about their 61 00:04:51.800 --> 00:04:56.160 target audience. We can actually tell them who they are. Um, in 62 00:04:56.199 --> 00:05:00.040 many cases, Um, we can tell them a lot more, and often 63 00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:02.920 our clients in the Higher Ed space we're going to get into this. I'm 64 00:05:02.920 --> 00:05:06.399 share a little bit. Um, they've got their own data and so we're 65 00:05:06.399 --> 00:05:10.800 helping them use that data in a more effective way. So that's what ring 66 00:05:10.879 --> 00:05:13.360 is all about. It's about, you know, leveraging the power of digital 67 00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:16.199 we think, in the next in the next gen sort of connective way. 68 00:05:17.439 --> 00:05:23.279 Thank you, PJ, and both Bart and I wanted to have you on 69 00:05:23.319 --> 00:05:30.759 the podcast to help us explain and demonstrate to our listeners the difference between behavioral 70 00:05:31.319 --> 00:05:39.040 lead generation models and cookie lead generation models and, uh, which one is 71 00:05:39.079 --> 00:05:42.480 better, which one's in the future, and that's something that your company has 72 00:05:42.519 --> 00:05:47.439 experience with. So we were hoping to educate everyone today on the difference and 73 00:05:47.560 --> 00:05:53.759 where we see the industry, especially for Higher Ed clients, going forward. 74 00:05:54.240 --> 00:05:57.639 So if you would, one of you kind of explain the difference between the 75 00:05:57.680 --> 00:06:01.000 two. Yeah, I'm happy to do that. So you know, on 76 00:06:01.079 --> 00:06:06.759 your last podcast I was listening to you guys, talked to Jay bear and 77 00:06:06.959 --> 00:06:13.319 one of the things that you guys talked about was the need for universities to 78 00:06:13.959 --> 00:06:19.000 be collecting more and more of their own proprietary data. The question is what 79 00:06:19.040 --> 00:06:25.000 to do with said data. What do I do with this? and Uh 80 00:06:25.040 --> 00:06:28.279 so leave that there for a moment. Uh, the importance of that it 81 00:06:28.360 --> 00:06:32.519 will become clear soon. In the past Um and for the last I mean 82 00:06:32.560 --> 00:06:40.279 G's ten, twelve more years than that, the programmatic digital space. So 83 00:06:40.519 --> 00:06:44.879 digital ads, although they're through Um, you know, Google's AD network or 84 00:06:45.000 --> 00:06:49.439 other ad networks, have all been based on a type of behavioral targeting Um, 85 00:06:49.800 --> 00:06:54.480 which is foundationally based on the cookie. So there you know, when 86 00:06:54.480 --> 00:06:57.759 we talk about behavioral Ad Targeting, Um, there's a couple of ways to 87 00:06:57.800 --> 00:07:02.879 think of it. But Online, uh, you know, behaviorally online based 88 00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:09.120 targeting, behavioral online target so how do people behave online? and that is 89 00:07:09.519 --> 00:07:14.120 what cookies have been used to track and basically store that information. Um. 90 00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:19.560 However, with the rise of automation and more and more bought traffic, uh, 91 00:07:19.639 --> 00:07:24.279 and less and more demand, frankly, for transparency, that model has 92 00:07:24.480 --> 00:07:28.600 stopped working. Google has recognized that and that's why they have started working on 93 00:07:28.959 --> 00:07:31.399 Um. Everything. You know, the the flock, the flock flop, 94 00:07:31.600 --> 00:07:35.279 so to speak. We've heard about and then this this cookie shell for the 95 00:07:35.319 --> 00:07:39.120 cookie cliff, as they call it. You know, cookies are going away. 96 00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:44.839 This model of of targeting Um from an online behavioral standpoint currently is going 97 00:07:44.879 --> 00:07:47.519 away. Um. So the question is, how do we? How do 98 00:07:47.600 --> 00:07:54.800 we target? And that's where the university's data comes in and and, frankly, 99 00:07:54.839 --> 00:08:01.600 other hard data stamp sources. What you know, instead of gathering online 100 00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:07.560 behavioral data from cookies batched into segments by big companies like oracle or Blue Kai, 101 00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:11.279 Um, you know, who are, you know, selling that data 102 00:08:11.360 --> 00:08:18.920 to Google and others, instead of those cookie segments Um being used, what's 103 00:08:18.959 --> 00:08:22.040 going to be used? We think, and we think the more elegant use 104 00:08:22.199 --> 00:08:30.600 is simply to use proprietary hard offline data and match that to Um Hardware specs. 105 00:08:30.680 --> 00:08:33.399 So let's say it's a device, i. d targeting or some other 106 00:08:33.879 --> 00:08:45.200 real, live device type identifier that connects the user, the target, with 107 00:08:45.519 --> 00:08:48.840 the data that the university has, because a lot of cases that data is 108 00:08:48.879 --> 00:08:52.360 really good. and Um, I'll take it. I'll take a step back 109 00:08:52.360 --> 00:08:58.279 there and to say also that the reason why rings started down that road, 110 00:08:58.279 --> 00:09:01.759 and this is because because that's how we talk, is more to do with 111 00:09:01.200 --> 00:09:07.440 the impact that we saw from offline based data, and that is to say 112 00:09:07.639 --> 00:09:09.279 Um, and this is not universally true. So don't push me all the 113 00:09:09.320 --> 00:09:13.799 way through on this, because online behavioral stuff is it's powerful too. But 114 00:09:15.240 --> 00:09:20.679 if I go online to men's health or to you know, MSNBC or whatever, 115 00:09:20.120 --> 00:09:24.399 it doesn't necessarily mean like it doesn't say as much about me as if 116 00:09:24.440 --> 00:09:28.799 I were to go into dixporting goods and purchase something. So, in other 117 00:09:28.799 --> 00:09:31.000 words, what we do with our bodies in the physical world and what we 118 00:09:31.039 --> 00:09:35.120 do with our money in the in the world, whether it's online or in 119 00:09:35.159 --> 00:09:37.440 the physical world, what we do with our money and our time in the 120 00:09:37.480 --> 00:09:45.159 real world has a more significant impact than what we what website, we happen 121 00:09:45.279 --> 00:09:52.720 to click onto or scroll down. And because that is true inherently, we 122 00:09:52.799 --> 00:09:56.200 need to be able to market two people based on that behavior, that real 123 00:09:56.279 --> 00:10:00.799 world behavior, if we really want to have an impact. And so that's 124 00:10:00.799 --> 00:10:03.200 where we start from, and so I hope that's a little bit of, 125 00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:05.840 uh an answer to what you're getting at. That's really good, PJ, 126 00:10:05.919 --> 00:10:09.120 and let me just kind of get my head wrapped around this, because I 127 00:10:09.120 --> 00:10:13.399 mean, you know, I don't think I'm a typical I carry my phone 128 00:10:13.399 --> 00:10:18.000 pretty much everywhere I go. My phone is a piece of hardware that, 129 00:10:18.440 --> 00:10:22.720 if I recall, it's like got a Mac address or some weird name like 130 00:10:22.759 --> 00:10:26.720 that that is unique only to that phone. And what you're telling me is 131 00:10:26.759 --> 00:10:33.279 that that my my data is connected to that, that piece of hardware, 132 00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:37.519 whether I'm sitting in a parking lot or I just drove through campus and I'm 133 00:10:37.519 --> 00:10:41.240 with my kids on vacation and we decided to swing over and just kind of 134 00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:46.159 do a quick walk through campus, but nobody knows that we're there. I 135 00:10:46.240 --> 00:10:50.080 can be you can. You can identify that because I'm part of your database, 136 00:10:50.240 --> 00:10:54.440 or maybe you bought a name and you can say, okay, this 137 00:10:54.679 --> 00:10:58.840 address my home address and I'm connected. My home address is connected to these 138 00:11:00.159 --> 00:11:03.759 pieces of hardware. All of a sudden, now you can start to understand 139 00:11:03.879 --> 00:11:07.799 my behavior based on my my hardware. But not only that, but another 140 00:11:07.840 --> 00:11:11.679 thing you said was that my spending. So the fact that I'm spending everything 141 00:11:11.679 --> 00:11:16.440 with my with my visa or my Master Card, I can also that's another 142 00:11:16.519 --> 00:11:20.279 piece of hardware, if you will, that can be tracked and and that 143 00:11:20.360 --> 00:11:24.960 behavior shows up. Is that correct? And Yeah, that's right. So 144 00:11:26.600 --> 00:11:31.919 the things that we do in the real world have been sold two companies like 145 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:35.440 Visa Mx. you know, all the banks, all the travel websites, 146 00:11:35.879 --> 00:11:41.879 all of these folks we have. We have long since made the trade off 147 00:11:41.279 --> 00:11:45.440 that we are okay with people selling our data as long as we get a 148 00:11:45.480 --> 00:11:48.600 really good service, and often it's a free service. I mean that's the 149 00:11:48.759 --> 00:11:52.000 entire backbone of facebook, right. Um. So you know that that theory, 150 00:11:52.240 --> 00:11:58.120 but we've had that theory working in operation in our society for decades now 151 00:11:58.279 --> 00:12:03.960 and that's how the banks and credit card companies make money and in another way. 152 00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:07.200 So that data is all. It's always been available. You know, 153 00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:11.200 the direct mail companies have had it and many other people have had it, 154 00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:16.639 but it's it's not been utilized very well by digital marketers and frankly, Um, 155 00:12:16.720 --> 00:12:20.159 it's, you know, the location based services that you're talking about. 156 00:12:20.200 --> 00:12:22.399 That that's part of the key. And so it's not just and it's not 157 00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:24.960 even just the MAC idea. I mean the people don't realize that there are 158 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:33.120 many identifiers on your phone and when you travel somewhere, uh, the location, 159 00:12:33.159 --> 00:12:37.440 there is going to be an APP that allows for tracking of your location 160 00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:41.720 and that APP will provide that and and it will be in the bidstream and 161 00:12:41.799 --> 00:12:46.879 that stuff will be pulled down and yeah, that's super creepy. But I'll 162 00:12:46.919 --> 00:12:50.240 just say this. People, you know, on one hand they want their 163 00:12:50.240 --> 00:12:52.519 privacy and that's a good thing, but on the other hand, they want 164 00:12:52.519 --> 00:12:58.000 ads their pertinent to them. They don't want ads that are superfluous. I 165 00:12:58.080 --> 00:13:01.919 love getting an ad, for instance, that is going to show me a 166 00:13:01.919 --> 00:13:05.720 new, uh, you know, gadget or something that I might be interested 167 00:13:05.799 --> 00:13:09.080 in. I want ads their target for me. I don't you know, 168 00:13:09.159 --> 00:13:13.600 and that's and that's why I think it's going to be extraordinarily important, um, 169 00:13:13.639 --> 00:13:16.000 you know, for our clients and for others to realize the power of 170 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:20.279 of, you know, that offline data, and it's just connecting everything in 171 00:13:20.320 --> 00:13:22.200 a different way. So it's all this data has always been available and it's 172 00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:26.440 getting better and better, but it's a matter of connecting it in a new 173 00:13:26.480 --> 00:13:28.240 way, if that makes sense. We talk a lot about it on the 174 00:13:28.279 --> 00:13:33.480 show. Schools are really struggling today to make the same at spen work, 175 00:13:33.879 --> 00:13:37.759 CPMS are up eighty nine year over year. On facebook and instagram. Our 176 00:13:37.759 --> 00:13:43.200 College clients are no longer looking for rented audiences. They're looking for an owned 177 00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:46.679 community where they can engage students even before they apply. This is why Zemi 178 00:13:46.759 --> 00:13:52.200 has become so crucial for our clients, with over one million students, close 179 00:13:52.240 --> 00:13:56.960 to ten thou five star ratings consistently ranked as one of the top social laps 180 00:13:56.320 --> 00:14:01.200 and recently, one of Apple's hot APPs of the week. There simply isn't 181 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:03.519 anything out there like it, and we have seen it all. Zem Me 182 00:14:03.559 --> 00:14:09.159 not only provides the best space for student engagement but the most unique and actional 183 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:13.679 data for the one sixty college and university partners. We know firsthand from our 184 00:14:13.679 --> 00:14:18.720 clients that Ze me is a must have strategy for Gen Z. Check them 185 00:14:18.720 --> 00:14:24.440 out now at colleges dot Zem dot com. That's colleges dot Z E M 186 00:14:24.639 --> 00:14:31.080 E dot Com. And yes, tell them Barton Troy sent you. Yeah, 187 00:14:31.159 --> 00:14:33.399 that does. And and so that really starts to open up a whole 188 00:14:33.399 --> 00:14:37.919 lot of different things, because I mean, and I guess I'm curious too, 189 00:14:37.960 --> 00:14:39.879 that, like your example of going to men's health versus, you know, 190 00:14:39.960 --> 00:14:46.200 walking into sporting goods and buying something. Um, I have to guess 191 00:14:46.200 --> 00:14:50.759 that there's some inaccuracies in the data that we're relying on from this this cookie 192 00:14:50.879 --> 00:14:54.240 or you know, I've got a ton of clients that you are ponying up, 193 00:14:54.399 --> 00:14:58.320 you know, a couple five hundred thousand dollars a month to to to 194 00:14:58.480 --> 00:15:01.759 do you know, facebook ads or Google ads and and you know, I've 195 00:15:01.799 --> 00:15:05.639 seen it work very well with bigger budgets, but, you know, smaller 196 00:15:05.639 --> 00:15:09.559 budgets it almost feels like, you know you're going to vegas and just doing 197 00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:13.519 a little bit of a crap shoot. Um, help me understand a little 198 00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:16.759 bit about how all that changes, because, I mean, if there's inaccurate 199 00:15:16.840 --> 00:15:20.320 data out there, you know there's a lot of things that are coming in 200 00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:26.080 the net that aren't worth anything. That's right, and big companies are able 201 00:15:26.120 --> 00:15:28.879 to do that because of the scale they're able to scale. But I mean 202 00:15:28.879 --> 00:15:33.360 if you're a mid sized business and you're spending maybe a couple hundred thousand dollars 203 00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:37.720 a year, or a university, uh, that maybe is spending, Um, 204 00:15:37.759 --> 00:15:41.799 you know, a million dollars on digital every year or a half a 205 00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:46.759 million. You don't have the luxury, uh, to be able to cast 206 00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:52.279 that wide of the net. Uh, and frankly, nobody should want to 207 00:15:52.320 --> 00:15:56.039 do that. Nobody should want to waste money. The reason why it's become 208 00:15:56.080 --> 00:16:00.720 more and more inaccurate is just having to do with the way that technology has 209 00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:04.559 evolved, and so those cookies, it's all built on the back of a 210 00:16:04.600 --> 00:16:10.679 technology that was never meant to hold this uh, kind of marketing. And 211 00:16:10.720 --> 00:16:14.519 so one way to check you you can check your cookie footprints, so to 212 00:16:14.559 --> 00:16:18.200 speak. You can go to Oracle and request, UM, request that. 213 00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:22.639 So you would be shocked. Uh. You know, I didn't know that 214 00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:25.960 I was also a woman. I didn't know that I was in five age 215 00:16:25.960 --> 00:16:29.960 categories. I thought I was a young guy, but apparently I'm also sixty 216 00:16:30.039 --> 00:16:33.200 five and older. I mean, they've got me in every age category, 217 00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:37.799 Um, and they've got me in both female male. They've got me with 218 00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:41.440 interests that I could care less about. I didn't know I took up fishing, 219 00:16:41.559 --> 00:16:45.200 you know, like all these different things. And so don't forget, 220 00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:48.360 PJ, you live in six different states, I know. I know I'm 221 00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:55.360 very affluent, UM, like. These are the kinds of things, though, 222 00:16:55.399 --> 00:17:00.039 that when we started looking into this, like, but again for a 223 00:17:00.039 --> 00:17:03.519 mid sized business and a small business especially, Um, you know, when 224 00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:08.160 you're targeting your ads this way, you just you don't have the scalability that 225 00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:11.440 you know, an IBM or Dick Sporting goods, to use the example. 226 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:15.400 I mean you don't have thirty five million dollars to to throw into this, 227 00:17:15.799 --> 00:17:21.440 because for them, like, you got to remember it's not just about the 228 00:17:21.480 --> 00:17:25.319 sale, the straight sales conversion. For them it's a branding play and they're 229 00:17:25.319 --> 00:17:27.599 totally willing to brand everybody the same thing with paper click. If you think 230 00:17:27.599 --> 00:17:33.519 about this, the idea is is not just about Um, it's not just 231 00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:40.839 about, you know, targeting a certain segment. With that you're really casting 232 00:17:40.880 --> 00:17:44.640 a wide net because even if you did get a non Bot right bart that 233 00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:48.079 would that would click three of then, if it's a real person, how 234 00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:49.799 do you know? I mean the minute, how do you know they're part 235 00:17:49.799 --> 00:17:53.279 of your target, target audience? Um, the minute you want to do 236 00:17:53.319 --> 00:17:57.920 any kind of targeting, you want to bring targeting into the picture, even 237 00:17:57.920 --> 00:18:03.440 with paper click right, then you are you are layering on the same cookie 238 00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:07.920 back backbone, and so you're still relying on that and and that's a problem. 239 00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:12.240 I mean so that that's what we're trying to kind of just educate people 240 00:18:12.279 --> 00:18:15.319 about and say, like, this might have been an elegant solution, and 241 00:18:15.319 --> 00:18:18.519 it is a really cool solution. If you think about how the cookie model 242 00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:22.880 came together, maybe ten years ago or fifteen years ago, a long time. 243 00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:26.480 It's it's time is flying, but now it's just with the rise of 244 00:18:26.480 --> 00:18:30.359 automation and so many other Um, so many other issues with the data. 245 00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:34.519 It's it's just become less effective and we don't think the universities can really afford 246 00:18:34.599 --> 00:18:42.559 to be that that ineffective with such a competitive atmosphere. PJ and Marty, 247 00:18:42.640 --> 00:18:48.279 so is it accurate when I say that the paper click or the cookie based 248 00:18:48.359 --> 00:18:53.319 model would be described as a real life targeting model versus where we would like 249 00:18:53.440 --> 00:18:57.240 to go or what might be a little more effective as the behavioral model? 250 00:18:57.799 --> 00:19:07.200 Well, UM, right now industry speak is a little Um, it's a 251 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:11.839 little fluid. So, for instance, if you specify that, and which 252 00:19:11.880 --> 00:19:15.119 is why I think we're asking good questions, is so important. When people 253 00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:19.359 say behavioral, some we've encountered behavioral as. People think of it as online. 254 00:19:19.640 --> 00:19:26.480 They believe online behavioral based targeting. Like they're thinking online behavioral. So 255 00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:29.400 that's why we have to ask like, well, what kind of behavioral targeting 256 00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:32.880 are you talking about? And so you've just phrased it in a way that 257 00:19:33.279 --> 00:19:37.920 you know we don't encounter as much, but it's probably actually more how it 258 00:19:37.960 --> 00:19:41.839 should be phrased. But yeah, behavioral targeting. That's why you have to 259 00:19:41.839 --> 00:19:45.680 get you like well, do you mean like based on purchase history or credit 260 00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:48.960 score, or you know something that people like? Real data points? Are 261 00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:52.319 you talking about online behavioral like based on the websites that people have visited? 262 00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:55.519 And that those are the kinds of questions you have to get down to. 263 00:19:56.240 --> 00:20:00.279 Thank you, PJ. So, keeping in mind that we're talking to higher 264 00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:06.720 end marketers, if you can kind of guide us in the conversation to what 265 00:20:06.759 --> 00:20:11.160 are you recommending us to go to? Yeah, absolutely, this is Marty. 266 00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:14.400 Sorry, Peter, are you going to say something? I can now 267 00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:18.759 go for it. All right. Well, this is where this is the 268 00:20:18.839 --> 00:20:26.160 part that I absolutely love, is to take these concepts and these ideas that 269 00:20:26.680 --> 00:20:30.799 and bring them to reality for folks. And so you know, there's always 270 00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:33.319 going to be new technology out there. Um. One of the things that 271 00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:38.599 we're doing is uh Um is both creepy but a lot of fun. Whenever 272 00:20:38.599 --> 00:20:41.640 we're talking with people and they say to us, wow, this is really 273 00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:47.079 effective as a consumer. Are really effective as a marketer, but kind of 274 00:20:47.079 --> 00:20:52.640 creepy as a consumer, we know that they've got the concept down Um. 275 00:20:52.680 --> 00:20:56.480 And so what I mean by that is some of the new stuff that we're 276 00:20:56.480 --> 00:21:03.319 doing is automatic content record mission or or, for Short, a C R 277 00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:10.079 and that is just simply put that if you are watching something on your smart 278 00:21:10.119 --> 00:21:15.200 tv in your home and let's say you're a university and your buying ad space 279 00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:22.519 on that on that TV, through the digital means, you see someone get 280 00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:27.559 served with a university a AD. Well, let's say Your University B. 281 00:21:29.079 --> 00:21:33.759 We can actually see what content is being displayed on that TV screen, that 282 00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:38.039 SMART TV screen in that home and then almost like like like race car, 283 00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:44.279 you can Nascar, you can draft and you could then a day later or 284 00:21:44.359 --> 00:21:49.359 to serve an ad for your university because you just saw that that ad was 285 00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:56.519 served for university a. So pretty powerful stuff. But what is really exciting 286 00:21:56.640 --> 00:22:03.400 goes back to this this real world data that PJ was talking about, when 287 00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:08.839 that is the foundational starting point and the Foundational Building Block of what you're doing 288 00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:15.359 the real world behavior. We put that data to work and then we're able 289 00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:19.759 to the gold standard for us is the match back or just the comparison of 290 00:22:21.279 --> 00:22:26.759 spreadsheet as your list of targets and Spreadsheet B is now your list of enrolled 291 00:22:26.799 --> 00:22:30.839 students in your institution. So here's an example of that. We had a 292 00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:36.920 top five sec school come to us and you know, they this won't come 293 00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:38.759 as a surprise to a lot who are listening in on this, and that 294 00:22:38.920 --> 00:22:45.759 is that they spend thousands of dollars every single year on research, and that 295 00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:49.359 research is who are my underserved markets? Who are the people that we need 296 00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:52.400 to be reaching out to? How do we get and then, naturally, 297 00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:56.559 you're left with those questions. How do we get in front of those people? 298 00:22:56.519 --> 00:23:02.480 So this school specifically, as we were talking with them, they came 299 00:23:02.519 --> 00:23:08.519 across Um an underserved universe, as we like to call them, of students, 300 00:23:08.680 --> 00:23:15.480 which was low income gap schools for pell grants, and so what they 301 00:23:15.559 --> 00:23:21.640 had was a list of twenty thousand people that that we're on their pell grant 302 00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:26.119 list, target list, and so what we did was, along with their 303 00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:30.599 direct mail, along with their search engine optimization, their paper click, their 304 00:23:30.640 --> 00:23:37.640 their billboards, TV, radio, we injected this into the sum of all 305 00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:42.160 of their marketing parts, and so what we did was bring to the attention 306 00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:48.000 of these first generation students who thought that they may not be able to attend 307 00:23:48.079 --> 00:23:52.359 the university, that there was a spot for them and in fact the university 308 00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:56.799 wanted them to come to them specifically. So what we ended up doing was 309 00:23:56.839 --> 00:24:03.160 taking that same list and survey, uh, digital display and non skippable pre 310 00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:10.519 roll video ads in browsers and APPs directly into the devices within those same households 311 00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:17.519 that we're on that literal Excel spreadsheet list. And then, Um, we 312 00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:22.920 we narrowed that down to thirty five hundred students who raise their hand and filled 313 00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:29.640 out an application. So we narrowed down applicants or possible applicants, to thirty 314 00:24:29.720 --> 00:24:33.799 five hundred students. And here's what we then found is we then took that 315 00:24:33.880 --> 00:24:40.240 list of thirty five hundred students and started targeting them with different messaging. Now 316 00:24:40.279 --> 00:24:45.599 that you have interest, your real world behavior is I'm interested in your university, 317 00:24:45.079 --> 00:24:49.000 and now we're going to continue to tweak that message and narrow it down 318 00:24:49.119 --> 00:24:53.680 and get to you specifically. So at the end of the campaign, when 319 00:24:53.680 --> 00:24:57.559 we compared the two spreadsheets, it was who did we target? Because we 320 00:24:57.799 --> 00:25:00.920 predetermined that and we know that, just like direct mail, we love to 321 00:25:00.960 --> 00:25:06.079 say all the time this is like direct mail, only for digital. And 322 00:25:06.119 --> 00:25:14.599 so what we do is we found that of the students that enrolled, h 323 00:25:15.599 --> 00:25:19.359 three thousand we targeted, little over three thousand we targeted and as a control 324 00:25:19.400 --> 00:25:26.359 group we left off a little over four hundred to target with only their direct 325 00:25:26.359 --> 00:25:30.599 mail and other meats, but we left digital out. For those folks that 326 00:25:30.759 --> 00:25:38.720 received the injection of our digital marketing, fifty one of those three thousand students 327 00:25:40.599 --> 00:25:47.279 are now enrolled in the institution, compared to only twenties five percent of students 328 00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:52.279 are enrolled who did not receive our digital marketing. So the conversion on that 329 00:25:52.359 --> 00:25:56.240 lift yield as as you know, every this is on the mind of every 330 00:25:56.279 --> 00:26:02.880 admissions and enrollment person in any institution. How do I lift the number of 331 00:26:02.920 --> 00:26:07.240 applicants and then how do I yield or keep the most amount of those possible 332 00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:15.640 as they move through their enrollment matriculation process? So you know, it's having 333 00:26:15.880 --> 00:26:23.720 a lift or a two point to six x increase in their conversion is staggering, 334 00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:30.359 especially when we know that these universities needs to be so careful with their 335 00:26:30.440 --> 00:26:33.480 dollars and a lot of times, you know, these are public dollars and 336 00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:38.119 you need to be able to account for every dollar, every dime, every 337 00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:44.279 penny that's spent on these on these campaigns. So let me let me just 338 00:26:44.359 --> 00:26:45.359 kind of tease that out a little bit, Marty, because I mean you're 339 00:26:45.400 --> 00:26:48.960 you're talking about some, you know, large sec school and you know, 340 00:26:49.079 --> 00:26:53.720 university type schools. I know for a fact that just about every school, 341 00:26:53.839 --> 00:26:56.359 I mean when when you start even looking at schools that are, you know, 342 00:26:56.680 --> 00:27:02.799 a thousand and above metric metric relation of student population, there you know 343 00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:07.559 everybody does students search and people have been doing student search for decades where, 344 00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:11.319 you know, it used to be the fact that you'd go and buy the 345 00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:15.640 A C T test registration list or the S A t test registration list and 346 00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:19.119 and you know you can still do that. There's other there's other places out 347 00:27:19.119 --> 00:27:23.759 there now that are offering similar lists that you can purchase, whether it's niche 348 00:27:23.839 --> 00:27:29.400 or or um or uh, you know, there's a ton of them. 349 00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:32.400 But the point is is that, you know, people are investing anywhere between, 350 00:27:32.559 --> 00:27:34.359 you know, I don't know how much money, but they're buying five, 351 00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:40.319 fifty thousand names or a hundred thousand names, seniors, junior, sophomores, 352 00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:42.960 and they're typically going through a traditional you know, we're gonna send an 353 00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:47.480 email, we're gonna send them text we're gonna send them postcards, we're gonna 354 00:27:47.519 --> 00:27:51.160 try to generate some leads out of that. But what I hear you saying 355 00:27:51.240 --> 00:27:55.240 is that if I have a list and I have an address, that is 356 00:27:55.279 --> 00:27:57.920 my key to be able to then start to inject this digital elements that you're 357 00:27:57.920 --> 00:28:03.559 that you're talking about, rather than relying on hoping that, my perspective, 358 00:28:03.559 --> 00:28:07.079 student is going to open their email or or, you know, hoping that 359 00:28:07.119 --> 00:28:10.920 they're gonna, you know, look at the direct mail, which is effective. 360 00:28:11.640 --> 00:28:17.440 You're telling me that I can also uploade these lists to a tool like 361 00:28:17.480 --> 00:28:22.440 what you guys do, and then start injecting ads into the household as part 362 00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:27.119 of that campaign. Yes, and that's going to get the quickest return, 363 00:28:27.279 --> 00:28:32.880 because that's the lift, yield, nurture part of this Um. So you're 364 00:28:33.799 --> 00:28:37.880 spot on. And then P J mentioned the data aspect of this is, 365 00:28:38.079 --> 00:28:41.319 you know, a lot of institutions that we're talking with, both large and 366 00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:45.759 smaller institutions, a lot of folks that used to be a requirement to have 367 00:28:45.880 --> 00:28:49.599 your a C T and s a t score, so they would buy those 368 00:28:49.680 --> 00:28:55.319 lists specifically. Well, a lot of institutions have have dropped that because they 369 00:28:55.359 --> 00:29:00.000 see it as a barrier to entry for the student. And so because, 370 00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:03.200 as you know, the all this data that PJ was mentioning. You know 371 00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:07.599 we have. This goes back to the creepy part. Like there's up to 372 00:29:07.640 --> 00:29:14.359 a thousand different data points in our dictionaries of of of identify Rs, of 373 00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:19.279 who people are, household income, Um, you know, credit score, 374 00:29:19.880 --> 00:29:22.680 Um, you know what type of gas do you put in your car? 375 00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:26.440 I should probably stop before people like it's so creeped out that they click end 376 00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:32.400 on this thing. Um, but you know it's so we can really do 377 00:29:32.519 --> 00:29:37.720 both. The quickest return, however, that higher education is going to receive 378 00:29:37.599 --> 00:29:45.039 through through a partnership in doing something like this, is is through their lift 379 00:29:45.119 --> 00:29:51.200 yield lists, because we we all know this right. It's it's easier to 380 00:29:51.200 --> 00:29:56.119 to have a conversation with someone or to start a conversation or continue with someone 381 00:29:56.119 --> 00:30:00.920 who's interested versus someone who is off the Ray. do or may not know 382 00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:06.079 you will trust the institution or the brand just yet. And so, to 383 00:30:06.160 --> 00:30:08.359 your point, you know we have. We have, you know, smaller 384 00:30:08.559 --> 00:30:18.000 university relationships where they've they've purchased nine plus names and they're excited to put that 385 00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:21.960 data to work. And you can, you can bifurcate those lists, you 386 00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:26.000 can you can sparse them out and say to the sophomores that we want to 387 00:30:26.039 --> 00:30:33.079 start having a conversation with, let's send them drip campaigns of, you know, 388 00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:37.519 just you know, less frequent contact, but we're still getting in front 389 00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:41.799 of them. And then the juniors you intensify that a little bit and the 390 00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:45.920 seniors you really ramp that up. And so you can do both. So 391 00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:49.960 to answer your question, you really can do both, with the nurturing and 392 00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:55.720 also the prospecting. But the nurture is absolutely where you're going to have the 393 00:30:55.839 --> 00:31:02.480 quickest return, because folks are already interested in having a conversation. There's an 394 00:31:02.480 --> 00:31:07.240 interesting thing that happens to in the mark in the digital marketing world, with 395 00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:11.799 when it comes to lists, um to. Just to clarify, it's not 396 00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:19.200 that traditional digital agencies haven't been able to take lists and use lists before Um, 397 00:31:19.240 --> 00:31:22.599 but there is. So if you were to talk to an agency, 398 00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:25.440 can you take this s a t list? Can you take this intender's list? 399 00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:27.559 Can you take this list, Field List? They'll say yes, but 400 00:31:27.720 --> 00:31:32.880 it's what do you do with that list? And so there's a difference between, 401 00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:37.720 for instance, this this new way of approaching digital advertising that Marty just 402 00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:40.799 described. For one of our universities. There's a difference between that and what 403 00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:45.400 traditionally folks have done with lists, because in the past they might inject that 404 00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:48.319 list, they might take that but what they will do is they'll take it 405 00:31:48.359 --> 00:31:52.440 to somewhere like a live ramp, which still is using a cookie based model. 406 00:31:52.680 --> 00:31:56.400 But what they'll do is they'll take that list of hard names addresses and 407 00:31:56.480 --> 00:32:00.319 they will model on top of that cookie, say egments. So they'll say 408 00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:07.160 we want to match these names and addresses to profiles based on online behavioral data 409 00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:10.440 that, let's say, an oracle or someone else has. So what you're 410 00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:17.000 doing is you're taking really good data and you're you're you're adding a level of 411 00:32:17.279 --> 00:32:22.039 uncertainty and really, at this point in the game, bad targeting. You 412 00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:28.279 know, uh, you remember caddyshack, bag caddying, like you're adding some 413 00:32:28.400 --> 00:32:31.200 bad caddying into it. Um. So this, this is this is Um, 414 00:32:31.599 --> 00:32:35.279 it's just something for you know, if you're a marketer and you're a 415 00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:37.519 marketing director and you're saying my agency, I'll ask my agency if they can 416 00:32:37.519 --> 00:32:39.720 do this, ask them like, well, were you taking that data? 417 00:32:39.759 --> 00:32:45.079 How are you going to approach this with this data? Because that's a really 418 00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:47.400 telling thing. If they're just going to like upload it to live ramp or 419 00:32:47.440 --> 00:32:52.359 somewhere else, then essentially it's all wasted. It's it's that you're you're back 420 00:32:52.400 --> 00:32:59.440 to square one essentially. Okay, so just one thing I want to kind 421 00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:00.720 of clarify little bit, Marty, on what you said. You said you 422 00:33:00.759 --> 00:33:06.359 talked about these hundreds and thousands of data points. One thing that kind of 423 00:33:06.400 --> 00:33:08.960 went away. Um, and I've got a lot of people that are listening 424 00:33:09.039 --> 00:33:13.599 on this this show that are going to be faith based institutions and up until 425 00:33:13.640 --> 00:33:15.400 about three or four years ago, part of the A C T S, 426 00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:22.640 a t, you know, pre you know test questionnaire was about your religious 427 00:33:22.640 --> 00:33:25.599 affiliation and your denomination. A lot of kids didn't understand that. A lot 428 00:33:25.599 --> 00:33:29.559 of kids didn't know what that to put in, but it was some data 429 00:33:29.640 --> 00:33:32.079 that they could say, I want to be able to buy a list of, 430 00:33:32.839 --> 00:33:36.000 you know, students who are part of the Baptist Church or part of 431 00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:39.279 the Presbyterian Church or whatever that is. That's went away and so there's there's 432 00:33:39.279 --> 00:33:43.000 a there's a blind spot now and there's there's places that they can go and 433 00:33:43.039 --> 00:33:47.119 get that and things like that. Does your data provide you does does your 434 00:33:49.400 --> 00:33:52.039 the tools provide with big data? I mean, if we if we're getting 435 00:33:52.039 --> 00:33:55.720 down into, you know, the details of credit scores and things like that, 436 00:33:57.359 --> 00:34:00.359 I'm sure there's some ways to be able to identify or affiliate some kind 437 00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:08.920 of religious activity as well. Is that true? That is yes, yeah, 438 00:34:09.079 --> 00:34:12.880 so in the data. You know. We've, you know, even 439 00:34:13.079 --> 00:34:16.119 been asked to do that before and have executed it. So it's absolutely in 440 00:34:16.159 --> 00:34:20.599 the data. Okay, because that brings me to my next question. Is 441 00:34:20.599 --> 00:34:22.039 that now, all of a sudden, if I bought this list, you 442 00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:27.440 know, and I've got a hundred thousand names, it seems to me like 443 00:34:27.519 --> 00:34:30.000 I can give that list to someone like yourselves, or somebody does the work 444 00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:34.039 that you do be able to then come back and say, okay, I 445 00:34:34.039 --> 00:34:36.599 want you to take this list and I want you to identify those people that 446 00:34:36.679 --> 00:34:38.840 have these key elements that I want. I want to have, you know, 447 00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:44.960 this kind of UH income, household income, because I do, I 448 00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:47.519 do want my first Gen students and my pel grant students, but I also 449 00:34:47.559 --> 00:34:52.920 kind of want full paced, you know, students that that I can kind 450 00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:55.920 of, you know, make it make some net revenue on for my university. 451 00:34:57.079 --> 00:34:59.519 I want to identify, you know that. I want to identify some 452 00:34:59.599 --> 00:35:05.840 religious affiliation and understand there that that household does have that as a part of 453 00:35:05.880 --> 00:35:07.920 their lifestyle. And and then I want to be able to then take that 454 00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:13.639 hundred thousand lists and now I'm down to let's say now I want to do 455 00:35:13.719 --> 00:35:17.960 something with that, even if it's a brand awareness campaign before they get into 456 00:35:19.039 --> 00:35:22.679 my you know, my my yield campaign that I'm going to do after they 457 00:35:22.679 --> 00:35:27.400 get accepted. Is that a possibility to that I'm starting to serve brand awareness 458 00:35:27.440 --> 00:35:30.280 ads, you know, in on Hulu and things like that, to those 459 00:35:30.320 --> 00:35:36.719 households. Yeah, absolutely. The the awareness factor is also, like you 460 00:35:36.760 --> 00:35:40.159 said, very important. And when it comes to the TV, there are 461 00:35:40.519 --> 00:35:45.880 lots of different ways, Um, to get in front of people. But 462 00:35:45.079 --> 00:35:51.280 it goes to what PJ said before. Any time you take that list, 463 00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:57.119 I like to think of it as Um. There's that that list is powerful 464 00:35:57.360 --> 00:36:00.639 because that list is direct. It normally has as a first name, a 465 00:36:00.760 --> 00:36:05.679 last name, physical street address, city, state, Zip, you know, 466 00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:09.079 enter phone number, whether it's, you know, your mobile phone or 467 00:36:09.119 --> 00:36:13.320 your second mobile phone. Um, you know in a whole host of other 468 00:36:13.400 --> 00:36:17.559 things. And when, like PJ said, when you are taking that list 469 00:36:17.639 --> 00:36:22.840 and you're uploading it to a live ramp, for example, you're you're immediately 470 00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:30.559 diluting the power when their directness of of that data. And so what this 471 00:36:30.679 --> 00:36:35.639 does is then is then say whether you're a large school or you're a small 472 00:36:35.679 --> 00:36:40.239 school. Like there's to your in state, out of state point or question. 473 00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:45.440 Um, it's really interesting. There was a Midwest University and they actually 474 00:36:45.440 --> 00:36:52.840 gave us three lists and those three lists they there. Their priority list was 475 00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:59.519 number two, and priority list number two was was out of state students, 476 00:36:59.559 --> 00:37:04.079 trying to get them to come to the university. And so we did advertising 477 00:37:04.159 --> 00:37:09.119 for seventy five days and UM, when we advertise for seventy five days list 478 00:37:09.320 --> 00:37:16.400 they had thirty nine students in role from all three lists, but thirty three 479 00:37:16.559 --> 00:37:22.400 of the thirty nine students those were students from list number two that were out 480 00:37:22.440 --> 00:37:27.239 of state students. So you can just like you said, do you want 481 00:37:27.280 --> 00:37:30.960 to bring awareness to your in state students, to your out of state students, 482 00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:36.159 to your stopout students, to your pel grant students? What it transfers 483 00:37:36.199 --> 00:37:38.880 students? There's a ton of cool things that you can do, especially when 484 00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:44.320 it comes to transfer students. And Uh, I think the other thing to 485 00:37:44.400 --> 00:37:47.239 keep in mind here is especially when it comes to the to the TV, 486 00:37:47.599 --> 00:37:52.000 and honestly, guys like TV is probably a whole another segment in and of 487 00:37:52.079 --> 00:37:55.719 itself. Um, so I won't I won't delve into that too much here, 488 00:37:55.760 --> 00:38:02.920 but being able to actually not target an area by by a demographic or 489 00:38:04.920 --> 00:38:10.440 media. Yeah, so being able to actually go into the household and target 490 00:38:10.519 --> 00:38:17.280 on someone's TV based off of the list of that starting point gives supreme confidence 491 00:38:17.960 --> 00:38:22.960 in in the directness of whether it is branding or it is specifically for the 492 00:38:23.000 --> 00:38:34.199 purpose of Um of enrollment. That's awesome. Thank you, Marty, and 493 00:38:35.199 --> 00:38:38.519 just listening to you and unfortunately we're going to have to bring our show to 494 00:38:38.599 --> 00:38:43.679 a close, but you just opened up another chapter that I'm sure that we 495 00:38:43.719 --> 00:38:46.639 could talk about for fifteen or twenty minutes and in a few minutes I want 496 00:38:46.639 --> 00:38:51.360 to give you an opportunity to share your contact information for those who would be 497 00:38:51.400 --> 00:38:55.400 interested in that next chapter. But we love to end our episodes of the 498 00:38:55.440 --> 00:39:02.960 podcast by asking if there's a piece of advice dealing with what we've discussed today 499 00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:09.079 that you could give a higher red marketer that they could implement easily. Yeah, 500 00:39:09.119 --> 00:39:14.480 I would the advice. I to two pieces of advice. The first 501 00:39:14.480 --> 00:39:20.719 one would be PJ alluded to this earlier, but ask good questions. When 502 00:39:20.800 --> 00:39:24.760 you turn over a list, do you even whether you're turning so if it's 503 00:39:24.800 --> 00:39:29.239 your list, Um, what are you doing with that list? What are 504 00:39:29.280 --> 00:39:32.000 you doing with that data? How are you using that list and data? 505 00:39:32.559 --> 00:39:37.239 If it's not your list or it's not your data and you are using it, 506 00:39:37.280 --> 00:39:38.760 do you own it? Are you leasing it? Like what is what 507 00:39:38.960 --> 00:39:45.280 is happening when you you hand over any of your information or when you do 508 00:39:45.760 --> 00:39:49.639 so called by something from another organization in terms of data? Do you own 509 00:39:49.639 --> 00:39:52.760 it and those kinds of things. But ask good questions and you know, 510 00:39:53.079 --> 00:39:59.079 most most of the folks that that we uh come, you know come up 511 00:39:59.119 --> 00:40:01.519 against. It is probably the the wrong phrasing, but a lot of folks 512 00:40:01.599 --> 00:40:07.760 like there. You know, they're they're open to describing what they do and 513 00:40:07.800 --> 00:40:10.920 how they do it. So have that conversation and Um, and look for 514 00:40:10.960 --> 00:40:15.760 ways that you can fill gaps. Um. As far as the advice that 515 00:40:15.800 --> 00:40:21.440 I would give, when it comes to all of the lists that people have 516 00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:28.079 in any institution, they're low hanging fruit, so to speak, is going 517 00:40:28.119 --> 00:40:32.320 to be their lift yield list. Those who know the university have some trust 518 00:40:32.360 --> 00:40:37.880 in the institution, those are the people, especially because there are there are 519 00:40:37.960 --> 00:40:45.519 fewer students and therefore more institutions going after those fewer students. Injecting this into 520 00:40:45.559 --> 00:40:50.199 a lift yield campaign. That would be my advice, is how how they 521 00:40:50.280 --> 00:40:59.960 can use this to instantly see the return to to help set their their enroll 522 00:41:00.360 --> 00:41:09.559 in motion in a predictable and demonstrable way. Marty, thank you very much 523 00:41:09.599 --> 00:41:15.400 for that. Both you and PJ have given us and our listeners a lot 524 00:41:15.480 --> 00:41:17.360 to think about and, I think, a lot to follow up on. 525 00:41:19.039 --> 00:41:23.840 With that in mind, would you both offer contact information for those listeners who 526 00:41:23.920 --> 00:41:28.360 would like to reach out to learn more about this topic? Or maybe some 527 00:41:28.400 --> 00:41:31.199 of US absolutely want to go first. I'm just going to offer your information. 528 00:41:36.079 --> 00:41:37.760 Okay. So, so here's what I'm going back to the beginning of 529 00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:43.199 the show here. What I've learned is if you want more to do, 530 00:41:43.960 --> 00:41:49.280 call PJ, because every time I have a conversation with this guy I find 531 00:41:49.320 --> 00:41:52.239 myself with more to do than when I called them before I called him. 532 00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:58.000 So, with that in mind, sure, yeah, my email address is 533 00:41:58.119 --> 00:42:04.719 Marty m a R why at Ring Dot Digital, R I N G dot 534 00:42:04.800 --> 00:42:08.679 digital, and it's there's no dot com. We get asked that all the 535 00:42:08.719 --> 00:42:14.199 time. It's just Marty at ring dot digital, and the same thing is 536 00:42:14.239 --> 00:42:19.079 true for our website. If you check out ring dot digital Um and then 537 00:42:19.559 --> 00:42:25.960 forward slash higher education Um, that is another great way to just to check 538 00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:30.159 out how we've done some some pretty neat things in the Higher Ed space. 539 00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:36.639 So and and really we we love to educate. That's the most important thing. 540 00:42:36.719 --> 00:42:40.159 We love to educate and we love to see people succeed and as long 541 00:42:40.199 --> 00:42:44.599 as those two things are happening, than you know, the world's the world's 542 00:42:44.639 --> 00:42:53.079 a better place. Thank you, Marty. Also, PJ, thank you 543 00:42:53.159 --> 00:43:00.199 for helping us get this message out and hopefully broadening some minds and giving marketers 544 00:43:00.280 --> 00:43:05.159 something else to think about and letting them know what's in store for them in 545 00:43:05.199 --> 00:43:07.400 the future. Yeah, there's so many really good things on this episode and 546 00:43:07.400 --> 00:43:09.400 I would encourage you to go back and listen to some of it, and 547 00:43:09.559 --> 00:43:12.880 you might even want to go back and listen to a few other episodes. 548 00:43:12.920 --> 00:43:16.239 I Remember Roosevelt Smith talked about big data on an episode a few a few 549 00:43:16.239 --> 00:43:21.920 months ago, Jay Bears, pja referenced earlier. Um. We talked about 550 00:43:21.920 --> 00:43:23.800 that, I think, on episode sixty nine, and I think that there's 551 00:43:23.840 --> 00:43:29.800 also a really good um discussion in some of this with with the University of 552 00:43:29.800 --> 00:43:31.840 Illinois as well, and so take a look at those and listen to those 553 00:43:31.880 --> 00:43:35.280 episodes. But I think the thing I want everybody to walk away with and 554 00:43:35.320 --> 00:43:38.719 think about is that what you've known as kind of the gold standard, with 555 00:43:38.760 --> 00:43:44.320 the cookie based type of ways of of you know lead generation and generating you 556 00:43:44.360 --> 00:43:47.159 know, PPC ads, that's gonna Change whether we like it or not. 557 00:43:47.559 --> 00:43:52.159 Google's policy of cookie is gonna is going to really change things, uh, 558 00:43:52.199 --> 00:43:55.519 in the summer of nine three, and so we've got to really be ready 559 00:43:55.519 --> 00:43:59.159 and we've got to start looking and I think PJ's comment about, you know, 560 00:43:59.199 --> 00:44:02.360 asking the questions and and really starting to educate yourself is a really good 561 00:44:02.360 --> 00:44:06.079 way to look at that and then also kind of open your mind too. 562 00:44:06.599 --> 00:44:08.519 I mean I spend my wife and I are kind of addicted to a couple 563 00:44:08.519 --> 00:44:12.880 of Um, Hulu episodes, you know Hulu shows, and we watch a 564 00:44:12.880 --> 00:44:17.559 Canadian serial show called the Murdoch mysteries and and, uh, they run ads 565 00:44:17.639 --> 00:44:21.119 during that and I know that those ads are targeted to my home. I 566 00:44:21.119 --> 00:44:23.239 can tell that when I watched the ads, Um. But I think there's 567 00:44:23.280 --> 00:44:27.400 a lot of creative things going on and over the top television with the streaming 568 00:44:27.440 --> 00:44:30.960 devices, and I think there's also creative divide things going on within our home 569 00:44:31.519 --> 00:44:35.960 that are being targeted to our I. P into our to our different devices. 570 00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:39.199 And so just start to take a take, Um, take a break 571 00:44:39.239 --> 00:44:43.840 and look at that and start to observe how you're being marketed to as a 572 00:44:43.840 --> 00:44:45.840 consumer and then kind of flip that around and say, how can I do 573 00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:50.079 that for my for my institution? And so I think this has been a 574 00:44:50.079 --> 00:44:53.039 great conversation. Thank you, PG, thank you, Marty, and appreciate 575 00:44:53.079 --> 00:45:02.400 a lot. Absolutely. Yeah, thank you, guys. The hired marketer 576 00:45:02.559 --> 00:45:08.920 podcast is sponsored by Kaylor's solutions and education, marketing and branding agency and by 577 00:45:08.920 --> 00:45:16.440 think packing don I almost made it without a mistake. What's the time stamp, 578 00:45:16.480 --> 00:45:23.480 Bart? Thank you. I'm going to start that again. The Higher 579 00:45:23.599 --> 00:45:30.159 Ed Marketer podcast is sponsored by Kaylor solutions and education, marketing and branding agency 580 00:45:30.559 --> 00:45:36.159 and by think patented a marketing execution, printing and mailing provider of Higher Ed 581 00:45:36.280 --> 00:45:39.639 Solutions. On behalf of my co host Bart Kaylor, I'm troy singer. 582 00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:45.400 Thanks again for joining us. You've been listening to the Higher Ed Marketer. 583 00:45:46.079 --> 00:45:50.679 To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your 584 00:45:50.719 --> 00:45:54.559 favorite podcast player. If you're listening with apple PODCASTS, we'd love for you 585 00:45:54.639 --> 00:45:59.119 to leave a quick rating of the show. Simply tap the number of stars 586 00:45:59.119 --> 00:46:14.079 do you think the podcast deserves. Until next time, H