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Oct. 26, 2021

Student Success = Institution Success

Student Success = Institution Success

Higher education is like marriage. Once you’re hitched, if you stop investing in the relationship, you can’t be surprised if it doesn’t last. 

Student success needs to be the constant, single focus of higher ed marketers to attract the right-fit students who will both stay and succeed.  

In this episode, we interview Nate Simpson , Senior Program Officer at the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, about reprioritizing student success. 

Join us as we discuss:

- Reimagining the role of VP of Enrollment

- How to get colleges student-ready

- Recruiting students who will stay and succeed

- Helping students achieve what they want to achieve 

Related Episodes:

Ep. 21 w/ Mary Barr 

To hear more interviews like this one, subscribe to Higher Ed Marketer on Apple Podcasts , Spotify , or your preferred podcast platform.  

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The Higher Ed Marketer podcast is sponsored by Caylor Solutions, an Education Marketing and Branding Agency, and by Think Patented, a Marketing Execution, Printing and Mailing provider of Higher Ed solutions.

    

 

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:08.789 My biggest tip is that student success, achieving seeing students achieve their goals is 2 00:00:08.910 --> 00:00:13.509 nine times that at ten is to get a better career isn't something that you 3 00:00:13.789 --> 00:00:21.309 can proxy to another department within your institution. You are listening to the Higher 4 00:00:21.309 --> 00:00:26.620 Ed Marketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals in higher education. This show 5 00:00:26.620 --> 00:00:31.339 will tackle all sorts of questions related to student recruitment, donor relations, marketing 6 00:00:31.379 --> 00:00:35.770 trends, new technologies and so much more. If you are looking for conversations 7 00:00:35.890 --> 00:00:40.289 centered around where the industry is going, this podcast is for you. Let's 8 00:00:40.289 --> 00:00:50.359 get into the show. Welcome to the Higher Ed Marketer podcast. I'm troy 9 00:00:50.520 --> 00:00:54.640 singer here with Bart Taylor, and every week we do our best to interview 10 00:00:54.679 --> 00:00:59.880 higher Ed marketers that we admire that the whole high ed marketer community can benefit 11 00:00:59.960 --> 00:01:04.230 from. Today we have the pleasure of interviewing Nate Simpson. He's the senior 12 00:01:04.269 --> 00:01:10.590 program officer for the bill and Melind the gates foundation and has a passionate role 13 00:01:11.069 --> 00:01:15.670 in regard to making sure students are successful and working with institutions to make sure 14 00:01:15.790 --> 00:01:22.260 that their incoming students and all of the students are successful. Yeah, I 15 00:01:22.340 --> 00:01:26.980 think that it's a great conversation and as you're listening to the natives, very 16 00:01:26.099 --> 00:01:30.780 passionate guy and he has a lot to share and I think that as you 17 00:01:30.859 --> 00:01:34.609 start listening to it, start listening to it through the perspective as as a 18 00:01:34.689 --> 00:01:40.010 higher dbarketer or maybe somebody enrollment. How can you take what he's talking about 19 00:01:40.010 --> 00:01:44.290 with student success, which a lot of times, I think enrollment sees, 20 00:01:44.370 --> 00:01:48.040 oh, that's that's student life's issue or that's somebody else's issue, because, 21 00:01:48.400 --> 00:01:52.560 you know, I once I hand them off during matriculation, then we're done. 22 00:01:52.560 --> 00:01:56.400 I think he makes a really good argument, a really good persuasive points 23 00:01:56.480 --> 00:02:00.040 about the fact that everyone on campus, and especially us as marketers and enrollment 24 00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:05.390 folks, should be focused on the success of the students, and so I 25 00:02:05.469 --> 00:02:07.670 think he really brings a lot of really good points to be sure to listen 26 00:02:07.709 --> 00:02:12.229 to that. Absolutely Bart and I think, unlike a lot of our other 27 00:02:12.469 --> 00:02:15.939 guests, you can utilize him and the foundation as a resource. So please 28 00:02:16.020 --> 00:02:20.500 keep that in mind and maybe ways that you can reach out to him or 29 00:02:20.620 --> 00:02:24.060 work with the foundation in the future. Without further ado, let's bring in 30 00:02:24.099 --> 00:02:31.330 nate. It is my pleasure to welcome Nate Simpson, senior program officer for 31 00:02:31.409 --> 00:02:36.409 the bill of Melinda Gates Foundation, to the Higher Ed Marketer podcast. And 32 00:02:36.490 --> 00:02:39.210 Nate, before we get into our conversation, if you could give our listeners 33 00:02:40.250 --> 00:02:45.439 what the mission is of the Gates Foundation and your role within the foundation. 34 00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:51.520 Yeah, so I'm excited to be on the PODCAST and super glad that I 35 00:02:51.719 --> 00:02:55.479 was able to be a guest and I'm excited that this is the chance to 36 00:02:57.159 --> 00:03:00.389 explore and talk more with your audience. So, yeah, the billimal end 37 00:03:00.389 --> 00:03:06.469 the gates foundation is a foundation that has multiple parts. It has areas that 38 00:03:06.509 --> 00:03:12.590 are focused on parts of the globe and other countries across the world, but 39 00:03:12.669 --> 00:03:17.219 then within the US we are very focused on supporting improvements around education, and 40 00:03:19.139 --> 00:03:23.819 so there are parts of that that goes from early learning all the way up 41 00:03:23.860 --> 00:03:27.689 to post secondary, and the team that I focused in our sit on is 42 00:03:27.889 --> 00:03:31.409 our post secondary success team, and I also sit on a team that is 43 00:03:31.449 --> 00:03:38.009 focused on improving the connection between education employment and so I've been doing that for 44 00:03:38.129 --> 00:03:42.919 the past five years and the work that I do is very focused on, 45 00:03:43.479 --> 00:03:46.280 more or less in a very simple way on the post secondary team, is 46 00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:53.199 to help institutions learn and discuss or figure out ways to see improvements around students 47 00:03:53.240 --> 00:03:59.669 success and make sure that races and a predictor of completion at the same time. 48 00:04:00.310 --> 00:04:03.750 So certainly interested as a as a foundation and seeing how that can be 49 00:04:03.909 --> 00:04:08.030 done, and we've seen work that it can be done, and see how 50 00:04:08.069 --> 00:04:13.419 we can get about over three hundred institutions to and partners who help the institutions 51 00:04:13.580 --> 00:04:16.139 to make these type of changes, to do it at a much broader scale, 52 00:04:16.339 --> 00:04:20.180 and so that's what we do, that's what I support as a team 53 00:04:20.939 --> 00:04:26.569 working on and I'm super excited to talk more about what we've learned and just 54 00:04:26.769 --> 00:04:31.689 continue to just have this conversation. I'm a higher Ed Nerd at heart. 55 00:04:31.970 --> 00:04:38.879 I've worked in higher aid for many, many years and I have seen I 56 00:04:38.959 --> 00:04:43.319 haven't, I wouldn't say I've seen everything, but I have seen and experienced 57 00:04:43.360 --> 00:04:46.199 it and super glad that, I mean went to bring into the foundation and 58 00:04:46.319 --> 00:04:49.160 to talk about it, about our perspective as well. That's great. Thank 59 00:04:49.160 --> 00:04:51.949 you, nate. To appreciate that introduction and I know that you and I 60 00:04:53.069 --> 00:04:55.629 have known each other for a few years and I know that you know big 61 00:04:55.750 --> 00:04:59.829 part of that idea of success for students has like you said, access for 62 00:04:59.910 --> 00:05:03.750 them to higher education, regardless of any issues that might typically be in the 63 00:05:03.790 --> 00:05:10.019 way, but then also making sure that the the internal workings of the school 64 00:05:10.060 --> 00:05:14.579 are able to, you know, be fostered for that success. And I 65 00:05:14.699 --> 00:05:16.939 know that in our previous conversation we talked a little bit about the idea of 66 00:05:16.980 --> 00:05:21.290 how how the roles of vice president of enrollment have kind of, you know, 67 00:05:21.529 --> 00:05:25.050 evolved over the years, I should say. I mean I was actually 68 00:05:25.170 --> 00:05:29.810 presenting to a board, a college board, today, on on some of 69 00:05:29.850 --> 00:05:32.850 their marketing and try to help them understand that. You know, historically market 70 00:05:32.889 --> 00:05:36.439 and used to fall under advancement and and now you know, many times it's 71 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:42.759 moved over to the enrollment side because of just the nature of the competition of 72 00:05:43.360 --> 00:05:46.199 bringing in students and things. But I think you've seen over your career and 73 00:05:46.279 --> 00:05:49.589 even even your time at the Gates Foundation, of what you know. What 74 00:05:49.670 --> 00:05:54.670 do you think this reimagining of the vice president of enrollment and sometimes enrollment in 75 00:05:54.790 --> 00:05:58.430 marketing, how does that kind of play into all of this from access and 76 00:05:58.509 --> 00:06:01.949 success standpoint? Yeah, that's a good question. By I mean because from 77 00:06:02.029 --> 00:06:06.819 what I've seen working at the foundation and even my time in at an institution. 78 00:06:08.699 --> 00:06:12.939 Was Really Fascinating about their question is the fact that, yes, higher 79 00:06:13.100 --> 00:06:17.220 it has had a history and I would even argue post World War II. 80 00:06:17.540 --> 00:06:23.329 This focus so on just making sure that folks have access, and what we've 81 00:06:23.329 --> 00:06:27.129 learned from the foundation recently and Meni Institution Cross country is that, you know, 82 00:06:27.250 --> 00:06:33.600 access isn't enough and really about not only making it accessible but then also, 83 00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:38.279 when they get in, that you're helping them actually to succeed and achieve 84 00:06:38.399 --> 00:06:44.800 what they're hoping to accomplish. And so we we have certainly made a lot 85 00:06:44.879 --> 00:06:49.550 of effort around supporting movements and some call of completion agenda and stuff like that 86 00:06:49.949 --> 00:06:56.629 to get hired to meet his commitment to what it says that it does for 87 00:06:56.949 --> 00:07:01.220 its students. The point of all that those like what? What that implies, 88 00:07:01.459 --> 00:07:06.699 though, is that institutions have to do things differently right or make some 89 00:07:06.819 --> 00:07:13.100 modifications, and one of those is the reality that there's a lot of individuals 90 00:07:13.220 --> 00:07:18.850 and humans who work an institution and even though you are in even to your 91 00:07:18.889 --> 00:07:24.250 example, you could be working on marketing and not think that you know the 92 00:07:24.329 --> 00:07:28.009 student success or completion agenda has anything to do with your roll. But what 93 00:07:28.089 --> 00:07:32.120 we've seen is that's just far from not being true. I mean it's intrically 94 00:07:32.439 --> 00:07:39.000 connected and it's because of the fact that it does require an institution at the 95 00:07:39.160 --> 00:07:43.560 heart of what it does to Redo everything. And I think even to your 96 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:48.910 point about like telling a board that you know, yes, you probably have 97 00:07:48.990 --> 00:07:55.350 a marketing responsibility, but that marketing, you know, capability or capacity, 98 00:07:56.149 --> 00:08:01.139 is in the wrong space and it's it's intention should be connected to not only 99 00:08:01.220 --> 00:08:05.300 enrollment. The other part about enrollment, I've seen it too within the Roman 100 00:08:05.459 --> 00:08:09.699 space, is that many VPS, I would argue, are realizing that their 101 00:08:11.060 --> 00:08:15.930 enrollment isn't just about getting them in, it's also getting them in and set 102 00:08:15.970 --> 00:08:22.009 up for success so that they can actually complete. And many institutions have even 103 00:08:22.050 --> 00:08:26.970 expanded the enrollman concept about just thinking about what the overall experience is going to 104 00:08:26.050 --> 00:08:30.600 be for the student. Once you get them in, then how do you 105 00:08:30.680 --> 00:08:33.559 make sure they stay in, and then how do you make sure that they 106 00:08:33.679 --> 00:08:37.360 continue to learn and they will eventually complete like that is in my mind, 107 00:08:37.559 --> 00:08:43.269 some institutions have just moved in that direction and as a foundation we're here to 108 00:08:43.470 --> 00:08:46.429 see not only what have they done, what do they do, but also 109 00:08:48.190 --> 00:08:50.350 how can we help others to do the same thing? I think that's great. 110 00:08:50.350 --> 00:08:54.149 I've seen a lot of schools that kind of they miss them boat because 111 00:08:54.389 --> 00:08:58.820 one they pass off a student way too early in the in the process, 112 00:08:58.980 --> 00:09:01.779 to student life, yeah, or to the registrar whomever. Yeah, and 113 00:09:01.940 --> 00:09:07.500 so that relationship that was built along the way, you know, in the 114 00:09:07.659 --> 00:09:11.409 in the in the prospective student journey, they it gets just cut off and 115 00:09:11.490 --> 00:09:15.169 it's like all the sudden, you know, come, come, move in 116 00:09:15.330 --> 00:09:18.970 weekend. You know they hey, they've really developed a great relationship with the 117 00:09:18.009 --> 00:09:22.210 folks and enrollment and but no longer do they have that relationship. And so 118 00:09:22.370 --> 00:09:28.360 I think your point to retention and success, I mean kind of sometimes those 119 00:09:28.360 --> 00:09:31.480 words are put together. Sometimes there's distinct differences between them. There is an 120 00:09:31.600 --> 00:09:37.480 ongoing you know, ongoing I hate to use the word marketing, but there 121 00:09:37.519 --> 00:09:41.629 is an ongoing communication and marketing. That's the responsibility of the schools to make 122 00:09:41.629 --> 00:09:46.870 sure that that student continues to understand the benefits, continues to understand the support, 123 00:09:46.230 --> 00:09:50.830 continues to understand that. Mean it's one thing to just get them into 124 00:09:50.909 --> 00:09:52.899 the end of the relationship. It's another one to keep it. It's a 125 00:09:52.899 --> 00:09:56.899 little bit like so many times I tell my schools when I see big you 126 00:09:56.940 --> 00:09:58.940 know, apply now buttons, you know, on the very first commuunication with 127 00:10:00.019 --> 00:10:01.620 a student, I'm like, okay, do you realize it? We're kind 128 00:10:01.620 --> 00:10:05.539 of like we're dating and on the first date you're asking somebody to marry you. 129 00:10:05.059 --> 00:10:07.970 We've got to woo somebody and we've got to kind of earn that and 130 00:10:09.090 --> 00:10:11.490 then, and then you can take that analogy even further and saying, okay, 131 00:10:11.769 --> 00:10:15.690 once they matriculate, okay, the weddings over. Well, you've got 132 00:10:15.809 --> 00:10:18.769 to continue into that relationship and continue to build that relationship. Just because you're 133 00:10:18.769 --> 00:10:22.440 married now doesn't mean that you know, everything's peach a king going forward. 134 00:10:22.480 --> 00:10:26.799 So we've got to kind of keep in mind that we have that constant woo 135 00:10:26.919 --> 00:10:30.919 to keep them there and keep them engaged in succeeding until they graduate, and 136 00:10:31.039 --> 00:10:33.600 even there I would argue that as an alumni, you want to continue that 137 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:37.549 going on to build that relationship. So yeah, no, I mean the 138 00:10:37.669 --> 00:10:39.590 series vote with their feet right, like you have to sit back and wonder, 139 00:10:41.110 --> 00:10:43.509 like why is it that? Or and I mean we've I've seen, 140 00:10:43.669 --> 00:10:48.710 I've seen with some institutions or that are making a lot of headweight. When 141 00:10:48.710 --> 00:10:50.779 they get a chance to look at their data, they're asking themselves was type 142 00:10:50.820 --> 00:10:54.779 of questions of like like why aren't they coming back? What? But see 143 00:10:56.059 --> 00:11:01.659 what I've seen in those are heard about those sessions and read about and support, 144 00:11:01.940 --> 00:11:07.009 is the fact that many of the Times they it's not just that ir 145 00:11:07.169 --> 00:11:11.529 person is looking at the data or the president or the chancellor. It's like 146 00:11:11.970 --> 00:11:16.049 there's a team, and I would argue that team is including the BP of 147 00:11:16.129 --> 00:11:20.840 enrollment and marketing to discuss, you know, what is happening when it comes 148 00:11:20.879 --> 00:11:26.240 to you know, we had a class that entered with, you know, 149 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:31.159 a thousand students and then come, you know, spring or fall next year, 150 00:11:31.639 --> 00:11:35.950 we're down to five hundred. Like everyone needs to start asking that question, 151 00:11:35.110 --> 00:11:39.870 not just one part of the institution. Everybody needs to ask or even 152 00:11:41.190 --> 00:11:45.669 offer, you know, if I am the VP of student services asking bp 153 00:11:45.750 --> 00:11:48.379 a Rome, like what do I need to do to help make sure that 154 00:11:48.980 --> 00:11:52.940 when you bring into students, that your students, because we all did the 155 00:11:54.059 --> 00:11:58.139 student Qui as it got the students don't change right like it doesn't. Now 156 00:11:58.220 --> 00:12:01.970 there's a new student that is going from the VP of Enrollans, roll to 157 00:12:03.090 --> 00:12:05.649 the BP of Student Service. It's the same. It's the same student. 158 00:12:05.809 --> 00:12:11.809 So it's really critical that there's teens including the marketing and in that capacity or 159 00:12:11.889 --> 00:12:18.519 capability with the institution, looking at the data and understanding like what is happening 160 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:22.879 or why isn't it that we don't see, and even making sure that it's 161 00:12:22.919 --> 00:12:26.600 disact disegregated by by race and socio econom status, so you can understand like 162 00:12:26.960 --> 00:12:31.070 at the route what is really going on. And I've seen a lot of 163 00:12:31.190 --> 00:12:37.230 articles, we've done research. I think I've also realized it's just I mean 164 00:12:37.309 --> 00:12:41.110 sometimes as a high level administrator, you just have to genuinely care and be 165 00:12:41.389 --> 00:12:46.860 curious about wanting the students to be there and wanted them see them again so 166 00:12:48.220 --> 00:12:50.860 and to see them succeed. Now to say a lot of folks are not 167 00:12:50.139 --> 00:12:54.179 interested in doing that, but you know, when you put that in front, 168 00:12:54.820 --> 00:12:58.009 it kind of comes off and you realize, I do want them to 169 00:12:58.129 --> 00:13:03.490 stay and if you, you know, use that mindset, you start to 170 00:13:03.570 --> 00:13:05.570 read do a lot of stuff when it comes to and or you start having 171 00:13:05.649 --> 00:13:11.879 some more prioritized conversations about what is really important, what's not necessary. At 172 00:13:11.879 --> 00:13:15.639 the same level when it comes to other things. I think that's a great 173 00:13:15.639 --> 00:13:16.720 point and I know, troll, you've got a question, but just to 174 00:13:16.759 --> 00:13:20.240 kind of follow up on that for a moment. The idea that I see 175 00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:24.679 a lot of schools they're looking at the data and they're not starting with what 176 00:13:24.799 --> 00:13:28.669 you're saying. How can we make sure these students succeed? And so a 177 00:13:28.750 --> 00:13:31.070 lot of smaller private college a lot of times struggle with this role is that 178 00:13:31.149 --> 00:13:37.429 they try to recruit everybody and every every everyone, and then they realize that, 179 00:13:37.509 --> 00:13:39.830 okay, these students aren't necessarily mission fit, whether they're, you know, 180 00:13:39.909 --> 00:13:43.419 whether they're a type of school that maybe it is a religious background school 181 00:13:43.419 --> 00:13:48.740 or maybe there are specialty type school where they've offer certain types of programs. 182 00:13:48.340 --> 00:13:52.860 They bring in all these students for the sake of getting the numbers and rather 183 00:13:52.940 --> 00:13:56.769 than starting with how can we make sure that we recruit students who are going 184 00:13:56.769 --> 00:14:00.250 to succeed all the way through, and so I think that's a mission fit 185 00:14:00.330 --> 00:14:01.970 is such a huge part of that at the beginning to yeah, I mean 186 00:14:03.049 --> 00:14:07.529 like mission fit for me is always something that kind of like strikes a nerve 187 00:14:07.690 --> 00:14:11.600 because it's kind of like continues to perpetuate this belief that students are supposed to 188 00:14:11.679 --> 00:14:15.840 be college ready, and he said, of really that the colleges should be 189 00:14:15.879 --> 00:14:18.720 student ready. And so it's like if you did all the work to make 190 00:14:18.759 --> 00:14:22.039 sure that they actually dig or recruited in and roll at your institution. You 191 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:24.870 shouldn't do this like Baden switch moment where it's like, Oh, we got 192 00:14:24.909 --> 00:14:28.470 you in and now you know, good luck. It's it's more about like 193 00:14:28.909 --> 00:14:33.309 you took the effort, you spent a lot of time and money and trying 194 00:14:33.350 --> 00:14:35.549 to figure out how that's to make would actually come in and enroll. My 195 00:14:35.750 --> 00:14:41.820 assumption is you did all that because even then you wanted them to continue, 196 00:14:41.139 --> 00:14:46.379 and so maybe you should continue doing things to make sure they that they do 197 00:14:46.019 --> 00:14:50.379 get the thing that you said that you wanted them to have when you were 198 00:14:50.419 --> 00:14:52.580 trying to get them to come to your institution. I mean, that just 199 00:14:52.659 --> 00:14:54.970 makes logical sense to me. I would even argue, well, and I 200 00:14:56.090 --> 00:14:58.009 know I might, you know, gut, tar and feather for this, 201 00:14:58.169 --> 00:15:01.009 but you know, higher institutions aren't the only, you know, quote unquote, 202 00:15:01.049 --> 00:15:07.360 types of organizations that provide services, and you look at other service providers 203 00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:15.120 lay they take on that responsibility very seriously and you know, in students are 204 00:15:15.200 --> 00:15:18.840 consumers and they can vote with their feet and some ways their money and go 205 00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:22.029 someplace who actually is going to provide them the service at that they're looking for. 206 00:15:22.789 --> 00:15:28.110 Well, nate, that kind of touches on a maybe there should be 207 00:15:28.149 --> 00:15:33.710 a changing of perspective of we always think of higher ed saying you should be 208 00:15:33.830 --> 00:15:41.340 grateful that we accepted you into our institution. Would you say that that should 209 00:15:41.379 --> 00:15:46.500 change and it should be more of we are grateful that you accepted and we're 210 00:15:46.539 --> 00:15:48.899 going to do everything that we can to make sure that you succeed and that 211 00:15:50.009 --> 00:15:56.009 you feel welcomed. Yes, I think it is a like a massive shift 212 00:15:56.210 --> 00:15:58.330 in mindset. I mean, I don't me wrong, I'm not saying that 213 00:15:58.409 --> 00:16:03.809 higher education is the only part of the educational system in the United States that 214 00:16:03.970 --> 00:16:07.679 needs to adopt that way of thinking. That said, I think that higher 215 00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:17.399 education is necessarily becoming more aware that that way of thinking isn't just doesn't preclude 216 00:16:17.559 --> 00:16:21.909 them right. It's become very obvious that we should have the same mindset. 217 00:16:21.950 --> 00:16:25.830 Also, I'm not saying that there's some folks who are worked and high it 218 00:16:25.950 --> 00:16:29.070 for a long time, who have always had that mindset. But what I 219 00:16:29.149 --> 00:16:33.019 think about, What's interesting about that point is that, yes, there's definitely 220 00:16:33.059 --> 00:16:37.419 pockets of that that exists within institutions, but I think that those individuals, 221 00:16:37.500 --> 00:16:42.299 those pockets, actually need to move towards the center of what institutions do. 222 00:16:44.100 --> 00:16:51.370 And I have we have worked with institutions in many types, from small liberal 223 00:16:51.490 --> 00:16:56.929 arts to large research one institutions, and what we have seen through all of 224 00:16:56.009 --> 00:17:03.360 those types is you start seeing changes when, even if you're part of a 225 00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:07.599 group of institution that has a mission to, you know, generate and deliver 226 00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:15.109 sound research, for name it for the United States, when you start putting 227 00:17:15.109 --> 00:17:19.269 students at the center of the work, you can still achieve it. So, 228 00:17:19.349 --> 00:17:23.829 like I've seen this thought process that's like student success and research one and 229 00:17:25.230 --> 00:17:30.619 starch responsibilities are are are polar opposites, and it's like no, it's not, 230 00:17:30.019 --> 00:17:34.180 and many institutions have shown you if you put the student at the center, 231 00:17:34.380 --> 00:17:40.180 you can still achieve your research responsibility just as much, if not more, 232 00:17:40.579 --> 00:17:45.250 and many ways. And then it's like the return on investment will start 233 00:17:45.329 --> 00:17:51.329 to yield a self, not only naturally but intentionally, and you can start, 234 00:17:51.569 --> 00:17:55.569 you know, predicting it on so many levels. I totally think that 235 00:17:55.690 --> 00:18:00.519 that mindset is is, it's been, or it's necessary for education in the 236 00:18:00.599 --> 00:18:03.559 US. It's been there for K twelve. You could talk to early learning 237 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:07.400 how to think pult secondary and higher institutions thought that that didn't apply to them 238 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:11.240 and some even argue, Oh, I've always saw that way. But you 239 00:18:11.359 --> 00:18:15.549 know, I don't know if the data really proves that out. You could 240 00:18:15.589 --> 00:18:19.109 even look at some of the data from the National Student Clearing House with that's 241 00:18:19.230 --> 00:18:25.150 come out as result of covid nineteen, demonstrating that many students we have graduated 242 00:18:25.190 --> 00:18:30.539 from the class of two thousand and twenty have delayed going into higher education in 243 00:18:30.619 --> 00:18:33.259 two thousand and twenty one. I mean there's research out there showing that there's 244 00:18:33.299 --> 00:18:38.940 a desire to resolve it. But you could argue maybe some of that isn't 245 00:18:40.140 --> 00:18:42.970 necessarily a bad thing, because you can say, well, they need to 246 00:18:44.049 --> 00:18:47.170 make sure they're going to place. End to your point, troy, that 247 00:18:47.289 --> 00:18:52.009 you're grateful and wanted them to come and so you know, just because you're 248 00:18:52.009 --> 00:18:55.250 they as me, they're going to they're going to come and maybe you should 249 00:18:55.250 --> 00:18:56.519 do a little effort to get them and make sure that you give them what 250 00:18:56.640 --> 00:19:00.680 they said that or give them the thing that you said you're going to get 251 00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:03.759 done, which is success. And I like to I just want to add 252 00:19:03.799 --> 00:19:07.640 on to that little bit the fact that I think that so many times in 253 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:11.789 the marketing that's that's sorely missed is that we want you to succeed here, 254 00:19:12.349 --> 00:19:15.069 you know. I mean we talk a lot about the benefits. We talked 255 00:19:15.069 --> 00:19:18.549 a lot about, you know, selling our distinctive. The marketing. Mean 256 00:19:18.829 --> 00:19:22.230 we recognize, especially for small privates, that, you know, people have 257 00:19:22.269 --> 00:19:26.299 a lot of choices, and even even for the public's I mean, everybody 258 00:19:26.339 --> 00:19:29.900 has a choice. We're trying to, you know, persuade them on why 259 00:19:29.980 --> 00:19:32.619 we are the best choice, but I think at the end of the day, 260 00:19:32.660 --> 00:19:34.940 especially generation Z, many times they want to know that, hey, 261 00:19:34.980 --> 00:19:38.089 you've got your we've got your back, we're going to make sure that you 262 00:19:38.210 --> 00:19:41.049 succeed. You're not just going to be a number here. I mean I 263 00:19:41.170 --> 00:19:45.529 hear a lot of small private liberal arts talking about, you know, we 264 00:19:45.650 --> 00:19:48.450 have professors who are, you know, mentors and things like that. I 265 00:19:48.609 --> 00:19:52.960 think the marketing many times has to kind of start talking that way and start 266 00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:56.079 expressing that desire that we we do want to see you succeed. We don't 267 00:19:56.440 --> 00:20:00.680 you're not just a number, even though we know your name. We still 268 00:20:00.680 --> 00:20:03.880 want you to succeed. So I think that's that's a good point. I 269 00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:07.549 mean, my experience has been and I graduated from our house college and it's 270 00:20:07.950 --> 00:20:15.470 Hbcu. All Mao blackmails. He's only one in the country and I vividly 271 00:20:15.630 --> 00:20:19.549 remember moments being on campus where, if I did not go to class like 272 00:20:21.190 --> 00:20:26.740 my I would have to take a different route to go to to certain spots 273 00:20:26.779 --> 00:20:30.259 because I knew I by work walk my normal way, I was going to 274 00:20:30.299 --> 00:20:37.809 go past my instructor or professor's office and she would or not. It wasn't 275 00:20:37.849 --> 00:20:41.609 her office. Who was her? where she part and so if I if 276 00:20:41.650 --> 00:20:45.650 I walked in that direction, I knew she was going to see me. 277 00:20:45.809 --> 00:20:48.490 Or am I running to or so I would just go the other way. 278 00:20:48.650 --> 00:20:51.759 The point of all this is the fact that yes, or I've seen it. 279 00:20:51.799 --> 00:20:57.480 It's real and I think even institutions who are really large had the same 280 00:20:57.720 --> 00:21:02.880 thing. They can do it and the data shows that it can be done. 281 00:21:02.920 --> 00:21:06.789 Their many institutions we've seen. We we like have their frontier set as 282 00:21:06.869 --> 00:21:11.150 a initiative that is coming to a close, but we worked with some top 283 00:21:11.230 --> 00:21:15.390 institutions who they able to show with big numbers of students who do exactly that, 284 00:21:15.869 --> 00:21:21.980 and it creates this experience that makes a difference for students to show up 285 00:21:22.339 --> 00:21:25.940 and for them to succeed and, friend to actually achieve what they want. 286 00:21:26.140 --> 00:21:29.500 Many of them, I would argue, it's because they want a better career 287 00:21:29.579 --> 00:21:33.329 or, I would say, even the agency to choose what they want without 288 00:21:33.410 --> 00:21:40.009 having to be an agency. Comes to the ability to choose options being available 289 00:21:40.130 --> 00:21:45.769 and not having them be very limited. so in everything shows so far the 290 00:21:45.849 --> 00:21:48.920 best way that that's going to happen right now, especially if, I would 291 00:21:48.920 --> 00:21:52.759 argue, if your minoritized population, your best bet is to have a post 292 00:21:52.799 --> 00:21:56.880 secondary credential and that's the only way you're going to get, you know, 293 00:21:57.720 --> 00:22:02.829 all the options made available to you. May thank you very much for all 294 00:22:02.869 --> 00:22:06.789 of the information that you've shared today. On behalf of the mission of the 295 00:22:06.869 --> 00:22:11.430 Gates Foundation and a strong more house man that has been in higher education for 296 00:22:11.470 --> 00:22:15.819 a while. Is there one tip that you could give high red marketers that 297 00:22:15.900 --> 00:22:23.140 they could take away that would be beneficial to them? Yes, which is 298 00:22:23.220 --> 00:22:32.049 something that I have seen with this. My biggest tip is that student success, 299 00:22:33.569 --> 00:22:37.569 achieving seeing students achieve their goals is nine times ed at ten is to 300 00:22:37.690 --> 00:22:45.000 get a better career isn't something that you can proxy to another department within your 301 00:22:45.039 --> 00:22:53.400 institution. It's it's your responsibility just as anyone else's within the institution as well. 302 00:22:53.640 --> 00:23:00.190 And you know the moments where you're like that, that student success team 303 00:23:00.549 --> 00:23:04.150 or committee or whatever you want to call it, you may go, oh, 304 00:23:04.190 --> 00:23:07.269 that's all, you know, BP affairs, I don't have anything to 305 00:23:07.349 --> 00:23:10.950 do with that. I need to find I need to make sure you know 306 00:23:11.190 --> 00:23:15.500 my I improved my yields Um from last year, like, I can't focus 307 00:23:15.539 --> 00:23:19.059 on that, like you have got like that. Has To stop. Like 308 00:23:19.940 --> 00:23:26.259 the the students success committee includes you, Um, and make sure you go 309 00:23:26.420 --> 00:23:32.170 to those meetings, because the student that you are cohort, that you brought 310 00:23:32.250 --> 00:23:36.490 in, it is a great opportunity for you to actually understand why you're yields 311 00:23:36.529 --> 00:23:40.049 don't look the way they did and you could probably get some better insights and 312 00:23:40.289 --> 00:23:45.359 then not necessarily start changing how you begin to recruit or changing or recruiting strategy, 313 00:23:45.880 --> 00:23:52.720 but understand that you are demonstrating through your presence, that it's important and 314 00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:56.150 that you're going to find better ways to make sure that the cohort has an 315 00:23:56.190 --> 00:24:00.910 experience and that you're not necessarily give an experience that's not something that you can 316 00:24:00.950 --> 00:24:06.390 actually return on. So go to those meetings, talk to them, be 317 00:24:06.630 --> 00:24:10.900 part of it and don't give it away. I mean, and that's coming 318 00:24:10.940 --> 00:24:14.099 from a person that's been involved in practitioner. I worked at a Community College. 319 00:24:14.099 --> 00:24:17.859 I know this. Eighteenzero things you're doing all at once. You are 320 00:24:18.099 --> 00:24:22.259 you're a hero with Cape on your back that folks don't even notice, but 321 00:24:23.410 --> 00:24:27.049 you gotta do it. Nay, thank you so much for that and we 322 00:24:27.210 --> 00:24:33.289 appreciate that small but powerful nuggetting everything that you've shared. My guess is there 323 00:24:33.410 --> 00:24:41.680 are a lot of other services and knowledge that someone could come to you for. 324 00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:45.440 What's the best way to reach you for those who would like to do 325 00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:49.400 so? Yeah, so I my best recommendation is to always take a look 326 00:24:49.400 --> 00:24:55.750 at the Billa Molona gay foundations website. The site has had an overhaul for 327 00:24:55.910 --> 00:25:00.349 anyone who has probably seen you in the past, but it's their sections now. 328 00:25:00.390 --> 00:25:03.349 Specific are our work in the US run education, specifically the Post Secondary 329 00:25:03.390 --> 00:25:07.980 Site. I totally recommend anybody take a look at that and to get any 330 00:25:08.019 --> 00:25:11.940 more information about what the foundation is working on. We also have a post 331 00:25:11.940 --> 00:25:15.220 secondary I think on that same site. I know you can. You can 332 00:25:15.259 --> 00:25:21.059 sign up for our post secondary success newsletter, and so I totally recommend that 333 00:25:21.569 --> 00:25:26.690 and get more information and also recommend on the point about higher education gain access 334 00:25:26.849 --> 00:25:33.369 to or being part of providing more value for students, I totally recommend folks 335 00:25:33.410 --> 00:25:37.039 to look at our vow the Value Commission work that we supported, just post 336 00:25:37.079 --> 00:25:42.599 secondary value dot org, where you can learn more about what the value commission 337 00:25:42.680 --> 00:25:48.839 that group discover about the value of high education in the US. Super Informational. 338 00:25:48.079 --> 00:25:52.509 Super Great has a definition, has metrics and I think at some point 339 00:25:52.509 --> 00:25:57.990 there's going to be like a much better view of college score card that takes 340 00:25:59.069 --> 00:26:03.269 into count more data that the college score card from the Department of it doesn't 341 00:26:03.269 --> 00:26:06.980 provide at this point. So totally recommend pose take a look at it on 342 00:26:07.059 --> 00:26:10.859 when it comes aatable at that site and me, you can find me on 343 00:26:10.940 --> 00:26:17.819 Linkedin or I'm also on twitter as well as super available to have those conversations 344 00:26:17.900 --> 00:26:21.970 as well. Thank you, nate, for your time and all the information 345 00:26:22.289 --> 00:26:26.329 that you are providing to our community. Bart do you have any parting words 346 00:26:26.490 --> 00:26:30.089 before we sign off for the episode? Yeah, I just wanted to kind 347 00:26:30.130 --> 00:26:33.519 of highlight a couple things that I heard and nate talked about it. Really, 348 00:26:33.599 --> 00:26:36.079 as a marketers, I think that we need to kind of lean into 349 00:26:36.119 --> 00:26:38.519 this as the idea of how do we make sure that we not only market 350 00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:42.920 to woo people in, but how do we also woo them to stay and 351 00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:47.710 with them to succeed, and I think that nate had some really good options 352 00:26:47.789 --> 00:26:52.390 there. I think as marketers sometimes we find ourselves a little bit maybe off 353 00:26:52.430 --> 00:26:56.109 the beaten path with regular students. Maybe there's an intern in the office, 354 00:26:56.109 --> 00:27:00.789 maybe there's not, but I think many times marketers and hireed tends to kind 355 00:27:00.829 --> 00:27:03.500 of be a little bit more of Hey, we're in our little niche of 356 00:27:03.579 --> 00:27:06.619 the of the university and we're just kind of doing our thing. I think 357 00:27:06.619 --> 00:27:10.819 nate made some really good points of being an intentional marketer to start learning, 358 00:27:11.700 --> 00:27:15.049 start engaging with students, start engaging with those opportunities, whether it's the committee 359 00:27:15.049 --> 00:27:18.650 meetings or things like that. You know, interject yourself into that because as 360 00:27:18.690 --> 00:27:23.450 a marketer you're going to learn more ways to communicate the benefits of your institution 361 00:27:23.650 --> 00:27:27.730 the more that you are understanding how your institution is helping those students succeed. 362 00:27:29.250 --> 00:27:33.440 And so I'm reminded of a conversation we had with Mary Bar from Ball State 363 00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:37.200 University and how she's intentional to spend time with students on a regular basis. 364 00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:41.400 And I remember a couple of our, you know, leaders and marketing that 365 00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:45.710 we've had on the podcast have talked about carving out time on a regular basis 366 00:27:45.750 --> 00:27:49.950 to just sit down with students, with parents, to just help understand what 367 00:27:51.150 --> 00:27:53.470 makes them tick, what how they're succeeding and things like that. And so 368 00:27:53.589 --> 00:27:59.859 I really would encourage our marketers to just take into what nate said really spend 369 00:27:59.940 --> 00:28:04.859 some time engaging with students helping them succeed and and that's really going to change 370 00:28:04.940 --> 00:28:08.900 the nature of what you're doing as a marketer. Well said, bar right. 371 00:28:08.980 --> 00:28:14.690 Thanks Nat. Thank you both. The High Ed Marketer podcast is sponsored 372 00:28:14.730 --> 00:28:19.490 by Kaylor solutions and education marketing branding agency and by thing patented, a marketing, 373 00:28:19.529 --> 00:28:25.289 execution, printing and mailing provider of Higher Ed Solutions. On behalf of 374 00:28:25.490 --> 00:28:32.039 Bart Taylor. I'm Troye singer. Thank you for joining us. You've been 375 00:28:32.079 --> 00:28:36.200 listening to the Higher Ed Marketer. 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