Student Success = Institution Success

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:08.789 My biggest tip is that student success, achieving seeing students achieve their goals is 2 00:00:08.910 --> 00:00:13.509 nine times that at ten is to get a better career isn't something that you 3 00:00:13.789 --> 00:00:21.309 can proxy to another department within your institution. You are listening to the Higher 4 00:00:21.309 --> 00:00:26.620 Ed Marketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals in higher education. This show 5 00:00:26.620 --> 00:00:31.339 will tackle all sorts of questions related to student recruitment, donor relations, marketing 6 00:00:31.379 --> 00:00:35.770 trends, new technologies and so much more. If you are looking for conversations 7 00:00:35.890 --> 00:00:40.289 centered around where the industry is going, this podcast is for you. Let's 8 00:00:40.289 --> 00:00:50.359 get into the show. Welcome to the Higher Ed Marketer podcast. I'm troy 9 00:00:50.520 --> 00:00:54.640 singer here with Bart Taylor, and every week we do our best to interview 10 00:00:54.679 --> 00:00:59.880 higher Ed marketers that we admire that the whole high ed marketer community can benefit 11 00:00:59.960 --> 00:01:04.230 from. Today we have the pleasure of interviewing Nate Simpson. He's the senior 12 00:01:04.269 --> 00:01:10.590 program officer for the bill and Melind the gates foundation and has a passionate role 13 00:01:11.069 --> 00:01:15.670 in regard to making sure students are successful and working with institutions to make sure 14 00:01:15.790 --> 00:01:22.260 that their incoming students and all of the students are successful. Yeah, I 15 00:01:22.340 --> 00:01:26.980 think that it's a great conversation and as you're listening to the natives, very 16 00:01:26.099 --> 00:01:30.780 passionate guy and he has a lot to share and I think that as you 17 00:01:30.859 --> 00:01:34.609 start listening to it, start listening to it through the perspective as as a 18 00:01:34.689 --> 00:01:40.010 higher dbarketer or maybe somebody enrollment. How can you take what he's talking about 19 00:01:40.010 --> 00:01:44.290 with student success, which a lot of times, I think enrollment sees, 20 00:01:44.370 --> 00:01:48.040 oh, that's that's student life's issue or that's somebody else's issue, because, 21 00:01:48.400 --> 00:01:52.560 you know, I once I hand them off during matriculation, then we're done. 22 00:01:52.560 --> 00:01:56.400 I think he makes a really good argument, a really good persuasive points 23 00:01:56.480 --> 00:02:00.040 about the fact that everyone on campus, and especially us as marketers and enrollment 24 00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:05.390 folks, should be focused on the success of the students, and so I 25 00:02:05.469 --> 00:02:07.670 think he really brings a lot of really good points to be sure to listen 26 00:02:07.709 --> 00:02:12.229 to that. Absolutely Bart and I think, unlike a lot of our other 27 00:02:12.469 --> 00:02:15.939 guests, you can utilize him and the foundation as a resource. So please 28 00:02:16.020 --> 00:02:20.500 keep that in mind and maybe ways that you can reach out to him or 29 00:02:20.620 --> 00:02:24.060 work with the foundation in the future. Without further ado, let's bring in 30 00:02:24.099 --> 00:02:31.330 nate. It is my pleasure to welcome Nate Simpson, senior program officer for 31 00:02:31.409 --> 00:02:36.409 the bill of Melinda Gates Foundation, to the Higher Ed Marketer podcast. And 32 00:02:36.490 --> 00:02:39.210 Nate, before we get into our conversation, if you could give our listeners 33 00:02:40.250 --> 00:02:45.439 what the mission is of the Gates Foundation and your role within the foundation. 34 00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:51.520 Yeah, so I'm excited to be on the PODCAST and super glad that I 35 00:02:51.719 --> 00:02:55.479 was able to be a guest and I'm excited that this is the chance to 36 00:02:57.159 --> 00:03:00.389 explore and talk more with your audience. So, yeah, the billimal end 37 00:03:00.389 --> 00:03:06.469 the gates foundation is a foundation that has multiple parts. It has areas that 38 00:03:06.509 --> 00:03:12.590 are focused on parts of the globe and other countries across the world, but 39 00:03:12.669 --> 00:03:17.219 then within the US we are very focused on supporting improvements around education, and 40 00:03:19.139 --> 00:03:23.819 so there are parts of that that goes from early learning all the way up 41 00:03:23.860 --> 00:03:27.689 to post secondary, and the team that I focused in our sit on is 42 00:03:27.889 --> 00:03:31.409 our post secondary success team, and I also sit on a team that is 43 00:03:31.449 --> 00:03:38.009 focused on improving the connection between education employment and so I've been doing that for 44 00:03:38.129 --> 00:03:42.919 the past five years and the work that I do is very focused on, 45 00:03:43.479 --> 00:03:46.280 more or less in a very simple way on the post secondary team, is 46 00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:53.199 to help institutions learn and discuss or figure out ways to see improvements around students 47 00:03:53.240 --> 00:03:59.669 success and make sure that races and a predictor of completion at the same time. 48 00:04:00.310 --> 00:04:03.750 So certainly interested as a as a foundation and seeing how that can be 49 00:04:03.909 --> 00:04:08.030 done, and we've seen work that it can be done, and see how 50 00:04:08.069 --> 00:04:13.419 we can get about over three hundred institutions to and partners who help the institutions 51 00:04:13.580 --> 00:04:16.139 to make these type of changes, to do it at a much broader scale, 52 00:04:16.339 --> 00:04:20.180 and so that's what we do, that's what I support as a team 53 00:04:20.939 --> 00:04:26.569 working on and I'm super excited to talk more about what we've learned and just 54 00:04:26.769 --> 00:04:31.689 continue to just have this conversation. I'm a higher Ed Nerd at heart. 55 00:04:31.970 --> 00:04:38.879 I've worked in higher aid for many, many years and I have seen I 56 00:04:38.959 --> 00:04:43.319 haven't, I wouldn't say I've seen everything, but I have seen and experienced 57 00:04:43.360 --> 00:04:46.199 it and super glad that, I mean went to bring into the foundation and 58 00:04:46.319 --> 00:04:49.160 to talk about it, about our perspective as well. That's great. Thank 59 00:04:49.160 --> 00:04:51.949 you, nate. To appreciate that introduction and I know that you and I 60 00:04:53.069 --> 00:04:55.629 have known each other for a few years and I know that you know big 61 00:04:55.750 --> 00:04:59.829 part of that idea of success for students has like you said, access for 62 00:04:59.910 --> 00:05:03.750 them to higher education, regardless of any issues that might typically be in the 63 00:05:03.790 --> 00:05:10.019 way, but then also making sure that the the internal workings of the school 64 00:05:10.060 --> 00:05:14.579 are able to, you know, be fostered for that success. And I 65 00:05:14.699 --> 00:05:16.939 know that in our previous conversation we talked a little bit about the idea of 66 00:05:16.980 --> 00:05:21.290 how how the roles of vice president of enrollment have kind of, you know, 67 00:05:21.529 --> 00:05:25.050 evolved over the years, I should say. I mean I was actually 68 00:05:25.170 --> 00:05:29.810 presenting to a board, a college board, today, on on some of 69 00:05:29.850 --> 00:05:32.850 their marketing and try to help them understand that. You know, historically market 70 00:05:32.889 --> 00:05:36.439 and used to fall under advancement and and now you know, many times it's 71 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:42.759 moved over to the enrollment side because of just the nature of the competition of 72 00:05:43.360 --> 00:05:46.199 bringing in students and things. But I think you've seen over your career and 73 00:05:46.279 --> 00:05:49.589 even even your time at the Gates Foundation, of what you know. What 74 00:05:49.670 --> 00:05:54.670 do you think this reimagining of the vice president of enrollment and sometimes enrollment in 75 00:05:54.790 --> 00:05:58.430 marketing, how does that kind of play into all of this from access and 76 00:05:58.509 --> 00:06:01.949 success standpoint? Yeah, that's a good question. By I mean because from 77 00:06:02.029 --> 00:06:06.819 what I've seen working at the foundation and even my time in at an institution. 78 00:06:08.699 --> 00:06:12.939 Was Really Fascinating about their question is the fact that, yes, higher 79 00:06:13.100 --> 00:06:17.220 it has had a history and I would even argue post World War II. 80 00:06:17.540 --> 00:06:23.329 This focus so on just making sure that folks have access, and what we've 81 00:06:23.329 --> 00:06:27.129 learned from the foundation recently and Meni Institution Cross country is that, you know, 82 00:06:27.250 --> 00:06:33.600 access isn't enough and really about not only making it accessible but then also, 83 00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:38.279 when they get in, that you're helping them actually to succeed and achieve 84 00:06:38.399 --> 00:06:44.800 what they're hoping to accomplish. And so we we have certainly made a lot 85 00:06:44.879 --> 00:06:49.550 of effort around supporting movements and some call of completion agenda and stuff like that 86 00:06:49.949 --> 00:06:56.629 to get hired to meet his commitment to what it says that it does for 87 00:06:56.949 --> 00:07:01.220 its students. The point of all that those like what? What that implies, 88 00:07:01.459 --> 00:07:06.699 though, is that institutions have to do things differently right or make some 89 00:07:06.819 --> 00:07:13.100 modifications, and one of those is the reality that there's a lot of individuals 90 00:07:13.220 --> 00:07:18.850 and humans who work an institution and even though you are in even to your 91 00:07:18.889 --> 00:07:24.250 example, you could be working on marketing and not think that you know the 92 00:07:24.329 --> 00:07:28.009 student success or completion agenda has anything to do with your roll. But what 93 00:07:28.089 --> 00:07:32.120 we've seen is that's just far from not being true. I mean it's intrically 94 00:07:32.439 --> 00:07:39.000 connected and it's because of the fact that it does require an institution at the 95 00:07:39.160 --> 00:07:43.560 heart of what it does to Redo everything. And I think even to your 96 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:48.910 point about like telling a board that you know, yes, you probably have 97 00:07:48.990 --> 00:07:55.350 a marketing responsibility, but that marketing, you know, capability or capacity, 98 00:07:56.149 --> 00:08:01.139 is in the wrong space and it's it's intention should be connected to not only 99 00:08:01.220 --> 00:08:05.300 enrollment. The other part about enrollment, I've seen it too within the Roman 100 00:08:05.459 --> 00:08:09.699 space, is that many VPS, I would argue, are realizing that their 101 00:08:11.060 --> 00:08:15.930 enrollment isn't just about getting them in, it's also getting them in and set 102 00:08:15.970 --> 00:08:22.009 up for success so that they can actually complete. And many institutions have even 103 00:08:22.050 --> 00:08:26.970 expanded the enrollman concept about just thinking about what the overall experience is going to 104 00:08:26.050 --> 00:08:30.600 be for the student. Once you get them in, then how do you 105 00:08:30.680 --> 00:08:33.559 make sure they stay in, and then how do you make sure that they 106 00:08:33.679 --> 00:08:37.360 continue to learn and they will eventually complete like that is in my mind, 107 00:08:37.559 --> 00:08:43.269 some institutions have just moved in that direction and as a foundation we're here to 108 00:08:43.470 --> 00:08:46.429 see not only what have they done, what do they do, but also 109 00:08:48.190 --> 00:08:50.350 how can we help others to do the same thing? I think that's great. 110 00:08:50.350 --> 00:08:54.149 I've seen a lot of schools that kind of they miss them boat because 111 00:08:54.389 --> 00:08:58.820 one they pass off a student way too early in the in the process, 112 00:08:58.980 --> 00:09:01.779 to student life, yeah, or to the registrar whomever. Yeah, and 113 00:09:01.940 --> 00:09:07.500 so that relationship that was built along the way, you know, in the 114 00:09:07.659 --> 00:09:11.409 in the in the prospective student journey, they it gets just cut off and 115 00:09:11.490 --> 00:09:15.169 it's like all the sudden, you know, come, come, move in 116 00:09:15.330 --> 00:09:18.970 weekend. You know they hey, they've really developed a great relationship with the 117 00:09:18.009 --> 00:09:22.210 folks and enrollment and but no longer do they have that relationship. And so 118 00:09:22.370 --> 00:09:28.360 I think your point to retention and success, I mean kind of sometimes those 119 00:09:28.360 --> 00:09:31.480 words are put together. Sometimes there's distinct differences between them. There is an 120 00:09:31.600 --> 00:09:37.480 ongoing you know, ongoing I hate to use the word marketing, but there 121 00:09:37.519 --> 00:09:41.629 is an ongoing communication and marketing. That's the responsibility of the schools to make 122 00:09:41.629 --> 00:09:46.870 sure that that student continues to understand the benefits, continues to understand the support, 123 00:09:46.230 --> 00:09:50.830 continues to understand that. Mean it's one thing to just get them into 124 00:09:50.909 --> 00:09:52.899 the end of the relationship. It's another one to keep it. It's a 125 00:09:52.899 --> 00:09:56.899 little bit like so many times I tell my schools when I see big you 126 00:09:56.940 --> 00:09:58.940 know, apply now buttons, you know, on the very first commuunication with 127 00:10:00.019 --> 00:10:01.620 a student, I'm like, okay, do you realize it? We're kind 128 00:10:01.620 --> 00:10:05.539 of like we're dating and on the first date you're asking somebody to marry you. 129 00:10:05.059 --> 00:10:07.970 We've got to woo somebody and we've got to kind of earn that and 130 00:10:09.090 --> 00:10:11.490 then, and then you can take that analogy even further and saying, okay, 131 00:10:11.769 --> 00:10:15.690 once they matriculate, okay, the weddings over. Well, you've got 132 00:10:15.809 --> 00:10:18.769 to continue into that relationship and continue to build that relationship. Just because you're 133 00:10:18.769 --> 00:10:22.440 married now doesn't mean that you know, everything's peach a king going forward. 134 00:10:22.480 --> 00:10:26.799 So we've got to kind of keep in mind that we have that constant woo 135 00:10:26.919 --> 00:10:30.919 to keep them there and keep them engaged in succeeding until they graduate, and 136 00:10:31.039 --> 00:10:33.600 even there I would argue that as an alumni, you want to continue that 137 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:37.549 going on to build that relationship. So yeah, no, I mean the 138 00:10:37.669 --> 00:10:39.590 series vote with their feet right, like you have to sit back and wonder, 139 00:10:41.110 --> 00:10:43.509 like why is it that? Or and I mean we've I've seen, 140 00:10:43.669 --> 00:10:48.710 I've seen with some institutions or that are making a lot of headweight. When 141 00:10:48.710 --> 00:10:50.779 they get a chance to look at their data, they're asking themselves was type 142 00:10:50.820 --> 00:10:54.779 of questions of like like why aren't they coming back? What? But see 143 00:10:56.059 --> 00:11:01.659 what I've seen in those are heard about those sessions and read about and support, 144 00:11:01.940 --> 00:11:07.009 is the fact that many of the Times they it's not just that ir 145 00:11:07.169 --> 00:11:11.529 person is looking at the data or the president or the chancellor. It's like 146 00:11:11.970 --> 00:11:16.049 there's a team, and I would argue that team is including the BP of 147 00:11:16.129 --> 00:11:20.840 enrollment and marketing to discuss, you know, what is happening when it comes 148 00:11:20.879 --> 00:11:26.240 to you know, we had a class that entered with, you know, 149 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:31.159 a thousand students and then come, you know, spring or fall next year, 150 00:11:31.639 --> 00:11:35.950 we're down to five hundred. Like everyone needs to start asking that question, 151 00:11:35.110 --> 00:11:39.870 not just one part of the institution. Everybody needs to ask or even 152 00:11:41.190 --> 00:11:45.669 offer, you know, if I am the VP of student services asking bp 153 00:11:45.750 --> 00:11:48.379 a Rome, like what do I need to do to help make sure that 154 00:11:48.980 --> 00:11:52.940 when you bring into students, that your students, because we all did the 155 00:11:54.059 --> 00:11:58.139 student Qui as it got the students don't change right like it doesn't. Now 156 00:11:58.220 --> 00:12:01.970 there's a new student that is going from the VP of Enrollans, roll to 157 00:12:03.090 --> 00:12:05.649 the BP of Student Service. It's the same. It's the same student. 158 00:12:05.809 --> 00:12:11.809 So it's really critical that there's teens including the marketing and in that capacity or 159 00:12:11.889 --> 00:12:18.519 capability with the institution, looking at the data and understanding like what is happening 160 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:22.879 or why isn't it that we don't see, and even making sure that it's 161 00:12:22.919 --> 00:12:26.600 disact disegregated by by race and socio econom status, so you can understand like 162 00:12:26.960 --> 00:12:31.070 at the route what is really going on. And I've seen a lot of 163 00:12:31.190 --> 00:12:37.230 articles, we've done research. I think I've also realized it's just I mean 164 00:12:37.309 --> 00:12:41.110 sometimes as a high level administrator, you just have to genuinely care and be 165 00:12:41.389 --> 00:12:46.860 curious about wanting the students to be there and wanted them see them again so 166 00:12:48.220 --> 00:12:50.860 and to see them succeed. Now to say a lot of folks are not 167 00:12:50.139 --> 00:12:54.179 interested in doing that, but you know, when you put that in front, 168 00:12:54.820 --> 00:12:58.009 it kind of comes off and you realize, I do want them to 169 00:12:58.129 --> 00:13:03.490 stay and if you, you know, use that mindset, you start to 170 00:13:03.570 --> 00:13:05.570 read do a lot of stuff when it comes to and or you start having 171 00:13:05.649 --> 00:13:11.879 some more prioritized conversations about what is really important, what's not necessary. At 172 00:13:11.879 --> 00:13:15.639 the same level when it comes to other things. I think that's a great 173 00:13:15.639 --> 00:13:16.720 point and I know, troll, you've got a question, but just to 174 00:13:16.759 --> 00:13:20.240 kind of follow up on that for a moment. The idea that I see 175 00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:24.679 a lot of schools they're looking at the data and they're not starting with what 176 00:13:24.799 --> 00:13:28.669 you're saying. How can we make sure these students succeed? And so a 177 00:13:28.750 --> 00:13:31.070 lot of smaller private college a lot of times struggle with this role is that 178 00:13:31.149 --> 00:13:37.429 they try to recruit everybody and every every everyone, and then they realize that, 179 00:13:37.509 --> 00:13:39.830 okay, these students aren't necessarily mission fit, whether they're, you know, 180 00:13:39.909 --> 00:13:43.419 whether they're a type of school that maybe it is a religious background school 181 00:13:43.419 --> 00:13:48.740 or maybe there are specialty type school where they've offer certain types of programs. 182 00:13:48.340 --> 00:13:52.860 They bring in all these students for the sake of getting the numbers and rather 183 00:13:52.940 --> 00:13:56.769 than starting with how can we make sure that we recruit students who are going 184 00:13:56.769 --> 00:14:00.250 to succeed all the way through, and so I think that's a mission fit 185 00:14:00.330 --> 00:14:01.970 is such a huge part of that at the beginning to yeah, I mean 186 00:14:03.049 --> 00:14:07.529 like mission fit for me is always something that kind of like strikes a nerve 187 00:14:07.690 --> 00:14:11.600 because it's kind of like continues to perpetuate this belief that students are supposed to 188 00:14:11.679 --> 00:14:15.840 be college ready, and he said, of really that the colleges should be 189 00:14:15.879 --> 00:14:18.720 student ready. And so it's like if you did all the work to make 190 00:14:18.759 --> 00:14:22.039 sure that they actually dig or recruited in and roll at your institution. You 191 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:24.870 shouldn't do this like Baden switch moment where it's like, Oh, we got 192 00:14:24.909 --> 00:14:28.470 you in and now you know, good luck. It's it's more about like 193 00:14:28.909 --> 00:14:33.309 you took the effort, you spent a lot of time and money and trying 194 00:14:33.350 --> 00:14:35.549 to figure out how that's to make would actually come in and enroll. My 195 00:14:35.750 --> 00:14:41.820 assumption is you did all that because even then you wanted them to continue, 196 00:14:41.139 --> 00:14:46.379 and so maybe you should continue doing things to make sure they that they do 197 00:14:46.019 --> 00:14:50.379 get the thing that you said that you wanted them to have when you were 198 00:14:50.419 --> 00:14:52.580 trying to get them to come to your institution. I mean, that just 199 00:14:52.659 --> 00:14:54.970 makes logical sense to me. I would even argue, well, and I 200 00:14:56.090 --> 00:14:58.009 know I might, you know, gut, tar and feather for this, 201 00:14:58.169 --> 00:15:01.009 but you know, higher institutions aren't the only, you know, quote unquote, 202 00:15:01.049 --> 00:15:07.360 types of organizations that provide services, and you look at other service providers 203 00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:15.120 lay they take on that responsibility very seriously and you know, in students are 204 00:15:15.200 --> 00:15:18.840 consumers and they can vote with their feet and some ways their money and go 205 00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:22.029 someplace who actually is going to provide them the service at that they're looking for. 206 00:15:22.789 --> 00:15:28.110 Well, nate, that kind of touches on a maybe there should be 207 00:15:28.149 --> 00:15:33.710 a changing of perspective of we always think of higher ed saying you should be 208 00:15:33.830 --> 00:15:41.340 grateful that we accepted you into our institution. Would you say that that should 209 00:15:41.379 --> 00:15:46.500 change and it should be more of we are grateful that you accepted and we're 210 00:15:46.539 --> 00:15:48.899 going to do everything that we can to make sure that you succeed and that 211 00:15:50.009 --> 00:15:56.009 you feel welcomed. Yes, I think it is a like a massive shift 212 00:15:56.210 --> 00:15:58.330 in mindset. I mean, I don't me wrong, I'm not saying that 213 00:15:58.409 --> 00:16:03.809 higher education is the only part of the educational system in the United States that 214 00:16:03.970 --> 00:16:07.679 needs to adopt that way of thinking. That said, I think that higher 215 00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:17.399 education is necessarily becoming more aware that that way of thinking isn't just doesn't preclude 216 00:16:17.559 --> 00:16:21.909 them right. It's become very obvious that we should have the same mindset. 217 00:16:21.950 --> 00:16:25.830 Also, I'm not saying that there's some folks who are worked and high it 218 00:16:25.950 --> 00:16:29.070 for a long time, who have always had that mindset. But what I 219 00:16:29.149 --> 00:16:33.019 think about, What's interesting about that point is that, yes, there's definitely 220 00:16:33.059 --> 00:16:37.419 pockets of that that exists within institutions, but I think that those individuals, 221 00:16:37.500 --> 00:16:42.299 those pockets, actually need to move towards the center of what institutions do. 222 00:16:44.100 --> 00:16:51.370 And I have we have worked with institutions in many types, from small liberal 223 00:16:51.490 --> 00:16:56.929 arts to large research one institutions, and what we have seen through all of 224 00:16:56.009 --> 00:17:03.360 those types is you start seeing changes when, even if you're part of a 225 00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:07.599 group of institution that has a mission to, you know, generate and deliver 226 00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:15.109 sound research, for name it for the United States, when you start putting 227 00:17:15.109 --> 00:17:19.269 students at the center of the work, you can still achieve it. So, 228 00:17:19.349 --> 00:17:23.829 like I've seen this thought process that's like student success and research one and 229 00:17:25.230 --> 00:17:30.619 starch responsibilities are are are polar opposites, and it's like no, it's not, 230 00:17:30.019 --> 00:17:34.180 and many institutions have shown you if you put the student at the center, 231 00:17:34.380 --> 00:17:40.180 you can still achieve your research responsibility just as much, if not more, 232 00:17:40.579 --> 00:17:45.250 and many ways. And then it's like the return on investment will start 233 00:17:45.329 --> 00:17:51.329 to yield a self, not only naturally but intentionally, and you can start, 234 00:17:51.569 --> 00:17:55.569 you know, predicting it on so many levels. I totally think that 235 00:17:55.690 --> 00:18:00.519 that mindset is is, it's been, or it's necessary for education in the 236 00:18:00.599 --> 00:18:03.559 US. It's been there for K twelve. You could talk to early learning 237 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:07.400 how to think pult secondary and higher institutions thought that that didn't apply to them 238 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:11.240 and some even argue, Oh, I've always saw that way. But you 239 00:18:11.359 --> 00:18:15.549 know, I don't know if the data really proves that out. You could 240 00:18:15.589 --> 00:18:19.109 even look at some of the data from the National Student Clearing House with that's 241 00:18:19.230 --> 00:18:25.150 come out as result of covid nineteen, demonstrating that many students we have graduated 242 00:18:25.190 --> 00:18:30.539 from the class of two thousand and twenty have delayed going into higher education in 243 00:18:30.619 --> 00:18:33.259 two thousand and twenty one. I mean there's research out there showing that there's 244 00:18:33.299 --> 00:18:38.940 a desire to resolve it. But you could argue maybe some of that isn't 245 00:18:40.140 --> 00:18:42.970 necessarily a bad thing, because you can say, well, they need to 246 00:18:44.049 --> 00:18:47.170 make sure they're going to place. End to your point, troy, that 247 00:18:47.289 --> 00:18:52.009 you're grateful and wanted them to come and so you know, just because you're 248 00:18:52.009 --> 00:18:55.250 they as me, they're going to they're going to come and maybe you should 249 00:18:55.250 --> 00:18:56.519 do a little effort to get them and make sure that you give them what 250 00:18:56.640 --> 00:19:00.680 they said that or give them the thing that you said you're going to get 251 00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:03.759 done, which is success. And I like to I just want to add 252 00:19:03.799 --> 00:19:07.640 on to that little bit the fact that I think that so many times in 253 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:11.789 the marketing that's that's sorely missed is that we want you to succeed here, 254 00:19:12.349 --> 00:19:15.069 you know. I mean we talk a lot about the benefits. We talked 255 00:19:15.069 --> 00:19:18.549 a lot about, you know, selling our distinctive. The marketing. Mean 256 00:19:18.829 --> 00:19:22.230 we recognize, especially for small privates, that, you know, people have 257 00:19:22.269 --> 00:19:26.299 a lot of choices, and even even for the public's I mean, everybody 258 00:19:26.339 --> 00:19:29.900 has a choice. We're trying to, you know, persuade them on why 259 00:19:29.980 --> 00:19:32.619 we are the best choice, but I think at the end of the day, 260 00:19:32.660 --> 00:19:34.940 especially generation Z, many times they want to know that, hey, 261 00:19:34.980 --> 00:19:38.089 you've got your we've got your back, we're going to make sure that you 262 00:19:38.210 --> 00:19:41.049 succeed. You're not just going to be a number here. I mean I 263 00:19:41.170 --> 00:19:45.529 hear a lot of small private liberal arts talking about, you know, we 264 00:19:45.650 --> 00:19:48.450 have professors who are, you know, mentors and things like that. I 265 00:19:48.609 --> 00:19:52.960 think the marketing many times has to kind of start talking that way and start 266 00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:56.079 expressing that desire that we we do want to see you succeed. We don't 267 00:19:56.440 --> 00:20:00.680 you're not just a number, even though we know your name. We still 268 00:20:00.680 --> 00:20:03.880 want you to succeed. So I think that's that's a good point. I 269 00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:07.549 mean, my experience has been and I graduated from our house college and it's 270 00:20:07.950 --> 00:20:15.470 Hbcu. All Mao blackmails. He's only one in the country and I vividly 271 00:20:15.630 --> 00:20:19.549 remember moments being on campus where, if I did not go to class like 272 00:20:21.190 --> 00:20:26.740 my I would have to take a different route to go to to certain spots 273 00:20:26.779 --> 00:20:30.259 because I knew I by work walk my normal way, I was going to 274 00:20:30.299 --> 00:20:37.809 go past my instructor or professor's office and she would or not. It wasn't 275 00:20:37.849 --> 00:20:41.609 her office. Who was her? where she part and so if I if 276 00:20:41.650 --> 00:20:45.650 I walked in that direction, I knew she was going to see me. 277 00:20:45.809 --> 00:20:48.490 Or am I running to or so I would just go the other way. 278 00:20:48.650 --> 00:20:51.759 The point of all this is the fact that yes, or I've seen it. 279 00:20:51.799 --> 00:20:57.480 It's real and I think even institutions who are really large had the same 280 00:20:57.720 --> 00:21:02.880 thing. They can do it and the data shows that it can be done. 281 00:21:02.920 --> 00:21:06.789 Their many institutions we've seen. We we like have their frontier set as 282 00:21:06.869 --> 00:21:11.150 a initiative that is coming to a close, but we worked with some top 283 00:21:11.230 --> 00:21:15.390 institutions who they able to show with big numbers of students who do exactly that, 284 00:21:15.869 --> 00:21:21.980 and it creates this experience that makes a difference for students to show up 285 00:21:22.339 --> 00:21:25.940 and for them to succeed and, friend to actually achieve what they want. 286 00:21:26.140 --> 00:21:29.500 Many of them, I would argue, it's because they want a better career 287 00:21:29.579 --> 00:21:33.329 or, I would say, even the agency to choose what they want without 288 00:21:33.410 --> 00:21:40.009 having to be an agency. Comes to the ability to choose options being available 289 00:21:40.130 --> 00:21:45.769 and not having them be very limited. so in everything shows so far the 290 00:21:45.849 --> 00:21:48.920 best way that that's going to happen right now, especially if, I would 291 00:21:48.920 --> 00:21:52.759 argue, if your minoritized population, your best bet is to have a post 292 00:21:52.799 --> 00:21:56.880 secondary credential and that's the only way you're going to get, you know, 293 00:21:57.720 --> 00:22:02.829 all the options made available to you. May thank you very much for all 294 00:22:02.869 --> 00:22:06.789 of the information that you've shared today. On behalf of the mission of the 295 00:22:06.869 --> 00:22:11.430 Gates Foundation and a strong more house man that has been in higher education for 296 00:22:11.470 --> 00:22:15.819 a while. Is there one tip that you could give high red marketers that 297 00:22:15.900 --> 00:22:23.140 they could take away that would be beneficial to them? Yes, which is 298 00:22:23.220 --> 00:22:32.049 something that I have seen with this. My biggest tip is that student success, 299 00:22:33.569 --> 00:22:37.569 achieving seeing students achieve their goals is nine times ed at ten is to 300 00:22:37.690 --> 00:22:45.000 get a better career isn't something that you can proxy to another department within your 301 00:22:45.039 --> 00:22:53.400 institution. It's it's your responsibility just as anyone else's within the institution as well. 302 00:22:53.640 --> 00:23:00.190 And you know the moments where you're like that, that student success team 303 00:23:00.549 --> 00:23:04.150 or committee or whatever you want to call it, you may go, oh, 304 00:23:04.190 --> 00:23:07.269 that's all, you know, BP affairs, I don't have anything to 305 00:23:07.349 --> 00:23:10.950 do with that. I need to find I need to make sure you know 306 00:23:11.190 --> 00:23:15.500 my I improved my yields Um from last year, like, I can't focus 307 00:23:15.539 --> 00:23:19.059 on that, like you have got like that. Has To stop. Like 308 00:23:19.940 --> 00:23:26.259 the the students success committee includes you, Um, and make sure you go 309 00:23:26.420 --> 00:23:32.170 to those meetings, because the student that you are cohort, that you brought 310 00:23:32.250 --> 00:23:36.490 in, it is a great opportunity for you to actually understand why you're yields 311 00:23:36.529 --> 00:23:40.049 don't look the way they did and you could probably get some better insights and 312 00:23:40.289 --> 00:23:45.359 then not necessarily start changing how you begin to recruit or changing or recruiting strategy, 313 00:23:45.880 --> 00:23:52.720 but understand that you are demonstrating through your presence, that it's important and 314 00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:56.150 that you're going to find better ways to make sure that the cohort has an 315 00:23:56.190 --> 00:24:00.910 experience and that you're not necessarily give an experience that's not something that you can 316 00:24:00.950 --> 00:24:06.390 actually return on. So go to those meetings, talk to them, be 317 00:24:06.630 --> 00:24:10.900 part of it and don't give it away. I mean, and that's coming 318 00:24:10.940 --> 00:24:14.099 from a person that's been involved in practitioner. I worked at a Community College. 319 00:24:14.099 --> 00:24:17.859 I know this. Eighteenzero things you're doing all at once. You are 320 00:24:18.099 --> 00:24:22.259 you're a hero with Cape on your back that folks don't even notice, but 321 00:24:23.410 --> 00:24:27.049 you gotta do it. Nay, thank you so much for that and we 322 00:24:27.210 --> 00:24:33.289 appreciate that small but powerful nuggetting everything that you've shared. My guess is there 323 00:24:33.410 --> 00:24:41.680 are a lot of other services and knowledge that someone could come to you for. 324 00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:45.440 What's the best way to reach you for those who would like to do 325 00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:49.400 so? Yeah, so I my best recommendation is to always take a look 326 00:24:49.400 --> 00:24:55.750 at the Billa Molona gay foundations website. The site has had an overhaul for 327 00:24:55.910 --> 00:25:00.349 anyone who has probably seen you in the past, but it's their sections now. 328 00:25:00.390 --> 00:25:03.349 Specific are our work in the US run education, specifically the Post Secondary 329 00:25:03.390 --> 00:25:07.980 Site. I totally recommend anybody take a look at that and to get any 330 00:25:08.019 --> 00:25:11.940 more information about what the foundation is working on. We also have a post 331 00:25:11.940 --> 00:25:15.220 secondary I think on that same site. I know you can. You can 332 00:25:15.259 --> 00:25:21.059 sign up for our post secondary success newsletter, and so I totally recommend that 333 00:25:21.569 --> 00:25:26.690 and get more information and also recommend on the point about higher education gain access 334 00:25:26.849 --> 00:25:33.369 to or being part of providing more value for students, I totally recommend folks 335 00:25:33.410 --> 00:25:37.039 to look at our vow the Value Commission work that we supported, just post 336 00:25:37.079 --> 00:25:42.599 secondary value dot org, where you can learn more about what the value commission 337 00:25:42.680 --> 00:25:48.839 that group discover about the value of high education in the US. Super Informational. 338 00:25:48.079 --> 00:25:52.509 Super Great has a definition, has metrics and I think at some point 339 00:25:52.509 --> 00:25:57.990 there's going to be like a much better view of college score card that takes 340 00:25:59.069 --> 00:26:03.269 into count more data that the college score card from the Department of it doesn't 341 00:26:03.269 --> 00:26:06.980 provide at this point. So totally recommend pose take a look at it on 342 00:26:07.059 --> 00:26:10.859 when it comes aatable at that site and me, you can find me on 343 00:26:10.940 --> 00:26:17.819 Linkedin or I'm also on twitter as well as super available to have those conversations 344 00:26:17.900 --> 00:26:21.970 as well. Thank you, nate, for your time and all the information 345 00:26:22.289 --> 00:26:26.329 that you are providing to our community. Bart do you have any parting words 346 00:26:26.490 --> 00:26:30.089 before we sign off for the episode? Yeah, I just wanted to kind 347 00:26:30.130 --> 00:26:33.519 of highlight a couple things that I heard and nate talked about it. Really, 348 00:26:33.599 --> 00:26:36.079 as a marketers, I think that we need to kind of lean into 349 00:26:36.119 --> 00:26:38.519 this as the idea of how do we make sure that we not only market 350 00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:42.920 to woo people in, but how do we also woo them to stay and 351 00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:47.710 with them to succeed, and I think that nate had some really good options 352 00:26:47.789 --> 00:26:52.390 there. I think as marketers sometimes we find ourselves a little bit maybe off 353 00:26:52.430 --> 00:26:56.109 the beaten path with regular students. Maybe there's an intern in the office, 354 00:26:56.109 --> 00:27:00.789 maybe there's not, but I think many times marketers and hireed tends to kind 355 00:27:00.829 --> 00:27:03.500 of be a little bit more of Hey, we're in our little niche of 356 00:27:03.579 --> 00:27:06.619 the of the university and we're just kind of doing our thing. I think 357 00:27:06.619 --> 00:27:10.819 nate made some really good points of being an intentional marketer to start learning, 358 00:27:11.700 --> 00:27:15.049 start engaging with students, start engaging with those opportunities, whether it's the committee 359 00:27:15.049 --> 00:27:18.650 meetings or things like that. You know, interject yourself into that because as 360 00:27:18.690 --> 00:27:23.450 a marketer you're going to learn more ways to communicate the benefits of your institution 361 00:27:23.650 --> 00:27:27.730 the more that you are understanding how your institution is helping those students succeed. 362 00:27:29.250 --> 00:27:33.440 And so I'm reminded of a conversation we had with Mary Bar from Ball State 363 00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:37.200 University and how she's intentional to spend time with students on a regular basis. 364 00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:41.400 And I remember a couple of our, you know, leaders and marketing that 365 00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:45.710 we've had on the podcast have talked about carving out time on a regular basis 366 00:27:45.750 --> 00:27:49.950 to just sit down with students, with parents, to just help understand what 367 00:27:51.150 --> 00:27:53.470 makes them tick, what how they're succeeding and things like that. And so 368 00:27:53.589 --> 00:27:59.859 I really would encourage our marketers to just take into what nate said really spend 369 00:27:59.940 --> 00:28:04.859 some time engaging with students helping them succeed and and that's really going to change 370 00:28:04.940 --> 00:28:08.900 the nature of what you're doing as a marketer. Well said, bar right. 371 00:28:08.980 --> 00:28:14.690 Thanks Nat. Thank you both. The High Ed Marketer podcast is sponsored 372 00:28:14.730 --> 00:28:19.490 by Kaylor solutions and education marketing branding agency and by thing patented, a marketing, 373 00:28:19.529 --> 00:28:25.289 execution, printing and mailing provider of Higher Ed Solutions. On behalf of 374 00:28:25.490 --> 00:28:32.039 Bart Taylor. I'm Troye singer. Thank you for joining us. You've been 375 00:28:32.079 --> 00:28:36.200 listening to the Higher Ed Marketer. To ensure that you never miss an episode, 376 00:28:36.440 --> 00:28:40.680 subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you're listening with 377 00:28:40.720 --> 00:28:44.109 apple PODCASTS, we'd love for you to leave a quick rating of the show. 378 00:28:44.150 --> 00:28:48.990 Simply tap the number of stars you think the podcast deserves. Until next 379 00:28:48.029 --> time,