Solving For the Right Things in the Right Way: IU Strategies to Retain Students

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:03.080 You know, I come across something or someone brings me something that is way 2 00:00:03.200 --> 00:00:06.639 off strategy. It's not that folks are trying to go row, they're just 3 00:00:06.759 --> 00:00:11.070 going to solve a problem. That's right before though, you are listening to 4 00:00:11.150 --> 00:00:15.509 the Higher Ed Marketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals in higher education. 5 00:00:16.550 --> 00:00:20.510 This show will tackle all sorts of questions related to student recruitment, don't a 6 00:00:20.629 --> 00:00:24.940 relations, marketing trends, new technologies and so much more. If you are 7 00:00:25.019 --> 00:00:29.179 looking for conversations centered around where the industry is going, this podcast is for 8 00:00:29.300 --> 00:00:36.130 you. Let's get into the show. Welcome to the High Ed Marketer podcast. 9 00:00:36.329 --> 00:00:39.929 My name is troy singer and I'm always proud to be with my cohost, 10 00:00:40.009 --> 00:00:43.929 Bart Taylor, who is the Mickey Mouse Club apologist of the duo, 11 00:00:44.369 --> 00:00:49.170 and today we are talking to Eleanor Berman, who serves as the Chief Marketing 12 00:00:49.289 --> 00:00:54.159 Officer at Indiana University, and she is one of the best people that we 13 00:00:54.240 --> 00:01:00.039 can talk to in regard to decentralize marketing organizations and how the best navigate them. 14 00:01:00.079 --> 00:01:03.600 Yeah, it's a great conversation with with Alanor and and again, if 15 00:01:03.679 --> 00:01:06.870 you're a smaller school, don't hang up. You know, stay on because 16 00:01:06.870 --> 00:01:10.069 there's so many good things that we talked about that I think are extremely relevant 17 00:01:10.109 --> 00:01:15.950 for smaller schools that you might not have a large marketing team like eleanor leads, 18 00:01:15.030 --> 00:01:19.219 but I think that she has so many good things to say that apply 19 00:01:19.379 --> 00:01:22.780 to all levels of highed marketing. I think it's a really valuable conversation. 20 00:01:22.859 --> 00:01:26.859 Yeah, and as a conversation where she gives a lot of great advice and 21 00:01:26.939 --> 00:01:32.340 a lot of great insight, but in a very lovely way and without further 22 00:01:32.379 --> 00:01:38.209 ado. Let's join our conversation with Eleanor Burman. It is my pleasure to 23 00:01:38.290 --> 00:01:45.090 welcome Eleanor Burman to the Higher Ed Marketer. Eleanor, in case someone hasn't 24 00:01:45.129 --> 00:01:49.239 heard your name here in the Midwest, you are the CMO of a little 25 00:01:49.319 --> 00:01:53.480 small school in a particular state that's not too far from Bart and if you 26 00:01:53.560 --> 00:01:57.680 would please give us a little bit of interesting facts about you, the school 27 00:01:59.239 --> 00:02:02.030 and the role that you play there. Absolutely thanks so much for having me. 28 00:02:02.069 --> 00:02:06.349 I'm really excited to be here. I am the Chief Marketing Officer at 29 00:02:06.430 --> 00:02:10.030 Indiana University, so just a law school that I that I know you guys 30 00:02:10.110 --> 00:02:14.509 have heard of down the road, up the road, left and right of 31 00:02:14.590 --> 00:02:16.860 the road as well. I've been with the university. It'll be ten years 32 00:02:17.020 --> 00:02:21.860 in February, so you've been with the university for some time. It's the 33 00:02:21.979 --> 00:02:23.900 longest I've worked anywhere, which I think is a testament to both the work 34 00:02:23.979 --> 00:02:27.900 and the teams that we have there. You know a little bit about me. 35 00:02:27.939 --> 00:02:31.610 Before coming into higher ed I lived and worked in Chicago and the Arts 36 00:02:31.650 --> 00:02:37.490 Community there in arts marketing and have the opportunity to work for some phenomenal organizations, 37 00:02:38.009 --> 00:02:42.330 including the Goodman Theater, writers theater, the second city. I cut 38 00:02:42.370 --> 00:02:46.360 my teeth there, all working in arts marketing and at a certain point decided 39 00:02:46.400 --> 00:02:52.080 to switch things up and moved. Moved to Indiana and started my career at 40 00:02:52.120 --> 00:02:55.400 it at I you about ten years ago, and always within the Central Marketing 41 00:02:55.479 --> 00:03:00.150 Office for the university and our various combinations and permutations. We've had a couple 42 00:03:00.150 --> 00:03:04.270 of reorgans in the last ten years, which you know we all go through, 43 00:03:04.430 --> 00:03:07.310 but always with a foot and strategy and that is really the focus of 44 00:03:07.469 --> 00:03:12.710 what I do now as the chief marketing officer. So at the broadest in 45 00:03:12.789 --> 00:03:16.580 the broadest way, you know, my role is really to develop and lead 46 00:03:16.740 --> 00:03:23.819 the execution of the university's brand strategy and very broadly that that brand strategy is 47 00:03:23.939 --> 00:03:30.770 to positively affect and enhance the university's reputation, to enhance enrollment. And when 48 00:03:30.810 --> 00:03:35.889 I say enrollment, I'm talking about recruitment and retention and, you know, 49 00:03:35.969 --> 00:03:39.610 really thinking about the lifetime engagement. How do we keep our constituents engaged from 50 00:03:39.610 --> 00:03:44.240 from the very first time they encounter iu which could be, you know, 51 00:03:44.400 --> 00:03:49.199 watching, watching football or basketball on TV or coming to a summer camp when 52 00:03:49.199 --> 00:03:52.960 they're in when they're in grade school or Middle School, all the way through 53 00:03:53.000 --> 00:03:55.830 graduation and beyond. So thinking about you know, at the at the highest 54 00:03:55.870 --> 00:04:00.990 level, our job is done when we've got progressed people along the pathway to 55 00:04:00.110 --> 00:04:03.310 loving I you for life. And then, a little more specifically, when 56 00:04:03.310 --> 00:04:08.069 we're talking about the brand for I you, you know, and and our 57 00:04:08.150 --> 00:04:11.740 role within our central marketing office, you know, we're responsible for what I 58 00:04:11.819 --> 00:04:16.060 consider what I would call the capital B brand of Indiana University and we market 59 00:04:16.300 --> 00:04:20.819 and manage the brand for our core campuses and Bloomington and at Ipui, and 60 00:04:20.899 --> 00:04:26.089 then, in a more localized way, we also work with our various campus 61 00:04:26.089 --> 00:04:30.970 schools and units to help them solve their marketing problems, marketing problems or opportunities, 62 00:04:31.009 --> 00:04:34.970 depending on how full or if the glasses we work with with those folks 63 00:04:35.009 --> 00:04:41.079 across the entire university system as well. I think we really wanted to talk 64 00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:45.759 about with you, since you oversee a large organization, how to approach, 65 00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:53.310 shore manage a decentralized marketing organization and wrap your arms around it. And for 66 00:04:53.509 --> 00:04:57.110 context, you mentioned a couple of the campuses, but if you can, 67 00:04:57.430 --> 00:05:01.870 you're marketing organization, how many campuses, centers are under your per for you? 68 00:05:02.189 --> 00:05:08.019 Yeah, absolutely so. Indiana University, we are a large statewide system 69 00:05:08.060 --> 00:05:13.860 school. So we have officially seven campuses. We have our two core campuses 70 00:05:14.259 --> 00:05:18.339 that probably folks are most familiar with in Bloomington, our largest and oldest campus, 71 00:05:18.819 --> 00:05:25.290 and then at IUPUI, which is Indiana University for due university Indianapolis. 72 00:05:26.209 --> 00:05:30.129 That's what that stands for. And then we also have five regional campuses throughout 73 00:05:30.129 --> 00:05:34.129 the state and those were developed, were created, you know, fifty plus 74 00:05:34.170 --> 00:05:39.519 years ago. Are Fifty or so and some change years ago to really serve 75 00:05:39.639 --> 00:05:44.839 the communities and their their regions. And then also we have two centers, 76 00:05:45.040 --> 00:05:47.199 one in Columbus, Indiana and Fort Wayne, and then we also have a 77 00:05:47.240 --> 00:05:51.709 global footprint. We have five global gateways around the world. We have a 78 00:05:53.029 --> 00:05:58.790 seven hundred and twenty five thousand living alumni. We Have Twenty One tho faculty 79 00:05:58.910 --> 00:06:02.310 and staff across the State and this year we have nearly a hundred thousand students 80 00:06:02.709 --> 00:06:09.060 enrolls. So I use a large organization. It is quite a large place. 81 00:06:09.139 --> 00:06:11.540 Will tell me a little bit about I mean when you're working on something 82 00:06:11.579 --> 00:06:15.500 like that. I mean, obviously scale is something, but when you when 83 00:06:15.540 --> 00:06:17.339 I when I hear that, how do you kind of work through? And 84 00:06:17.500 --> 00:06:20.970 I think this is relevant to any any audience that's listening, because I was 85 00:06:21.009 --> 00:06:26.129 at a small, small school doing a project a few a few weeks ago 86 00:06:26.290 --> 00:06:30.769 and their marketing team was only five six people. The entire enrollment team, 87 00:06:30.129 --> 00:06:34.519 the entire enrollment at the university was maybe three or four hundred students, and 88 00:06:34.560 --> 00:06:39.040 so it was a very small school, but I was still I walked away 89 00:06:39.240 --> 00:06:42.720 with some notes that I shared with the with the leadership, is that it 90 00:06:42.879 --> 00:06:46.279 was very siload and I was really surprised, even at a very small school 91 00:06:46.319 --> 00:06:47.990 like that. You know, the the tendency to kind of stay in your 92 00:06:47.990 --> 00:06:51.629 own silo, your own your pocket. How do you work with that? 93 00:06:51.750 --> 00:06:56.629 I mean at an institution like I you and with a large marketing team like 94 00:06:56.750 --> 00:07:00.230 you have and the different constituencies? How do you keep from becoming siload where 95 00:07:00.430 --> 00:07:03.300 you know, one side doesn't know what the other side's doing? Absolutely that 96 00:07:03.579 --> 00:07:09.939 is the eight hundred million dollar question. If we solve it here today, 97 00:07:10.139 --> 00:07:14.779 we're we're doing right. Yes, you know, we really. The my 98 00:07:14.980 --> 00:07:17.089 approach has been and how I've how we have a proach it and how I 99 00:07:17.170 --> 00:07:21.649 have approached it is really clarity of vision and I always kind of when I 100 00:07:21.730 --> 00:07:25.769 think about you know, we have our brand strategy and it is, you 101 00:07:25.850 --> 00:07:29.970 know, my responsibility, our units responsibility, to ensure that we have clearly 102 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:33.399 articulated what it is we're trying to do, why we're trying to do it 103 00:07:33.800 --> 00:07:39.839 and where did it come from. I think the the understanding of the background, 104 00:07:40.000 --> 00:07:42.879 the research, you know, I think that's really important for people to 105 00:07:42.920 --> 00:07:45.829 understand that we didn't just pick this out of a hat. It wasn't eaten 106 00:07:45.910 --> 00:07:48.870 with. With any organization as large and decentralize as I you we do a 107 00:07:48.990 --> 00:07:53.430 great many things and we have a great many stories to tell, but if 108 00:07:53.470 --> 00:07:56.149 we all are shouting at the top of our lungs, we're just going to 109 00:07:56.269 --> 00:08:00.579 create noise. Right. So I think really my approach has been and what 110 00:08:00.779 --> 00:08:05.139 has worked well, is having that clear that clarity of vision that is well 111 00:08:05.220 --> 00:08:11.220 articulated and well crafted so folks can really understand what is the big picture. 112 00:08:11.579 --> 00:08:15.569 And then, on the flip side of that coin, I think we also 113 00:08:15.689 --> 00:08:18.610 have to really, you know, think of it from the point of view 114 00:08:18.610 --> 00:08:20.850 of how are we helping people to solve their problems, right, coming from 115 00:08:20.850 --> 00:08:24.889 the very top to all the way, you know, from the very top 116 00:08:24.930 --> 00:08:26.759 of like let's set a brand strategy, to the very all the way down 117 00:08:26.759 --> 00:08:31.639 to the tactical execution of a social post. Everyone's trying to solve a problem 118 00:08:31.959 --> 00:08:33.799 or all trying to meet our business needs. Were all trying to solve those 119 00:08:33.840 --> 00:08:39.159 problems. How do we help folks see themselves and connect back to that vision 120 00:08:39.440 --> 00:08:43.590 and then provide them with the tools, the resources, the materials they need 121 00:08:43.669 --> 00:08:50.230 to do their jobs right? So it's less about don't do X, don't 122 00:08:50.350 --> 00:08:54.110 say why, and more of Hey, you have this really robust story to 123 00:08:54.149 --> 00:08:56.779 tell, because we do a great many things. How do we connect that 124 00:08:56.980 --> 00:09:01.539 back to this larger story that we're trying to articulate for the university as a 125 00:09:01.580 --> 00:09:05.740 whole? Nine Times out of ten, I've found when, you know, 126 00:09:05.779 --> 00:09:09.539 I come across something or someone brings me something that is way off strategy. 127 00:09:09.049 --> 00:09:11.570 It's not that folks are trying to go row right, they're just going to 128 00:09:11.610 --> 00:09:15.809 solve a problem that's right before them. And so, you know, thinking 129 00:09:15.850 --> 00:09:18.970 about it from that point of view is how do we put as much information, 130 00:09:18.049 --> 00:09:24.320 as much empowerment, as many tools and resources into folks hands so they 131 00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:28.200 can do their best work and do what they know best and and manage that, 132 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:33.559 you know, and their localized environment, and still connect back to those 133 00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:37.519 larger brand straded, the larger brand strategy and, you know, help us 134 00:09:37.559 --> 00:09:41.909 move the needle on those big picture, big picture goals. It's almost like, 135 00:09:41.509 --> 00:09:45.269 and I've seen some schools do this, where there has to be a 136 00:09:45.509 --> 00:09:48.629 little bit of an emphasis, or a little bit of attention, I should 137 00:09:48.629 --> 00:09:52.980 say, to maybe some internal marketing, some internal communications, so that you've 138 00:09:52.019 --> 00:09:56.059 got to make sure that everybody is on the same page, because otherwise you 139 00:09:56.179 --> 00:09:58.820 end up being, like you said, the brand police were walking around issuing 140 00:09:58.899 --> 00:10:05.779 citations as opposed to doing the effort to actually educate all the constituencies, not 141 00:10:05.860 --> 00:10:09.529 just the marketing people but also, you know, those those people that are, 142 00:10:09.889 --> 00:10:11.929 you know, the deans and other people that are are making to decisions 143 00:10:13.049 --> 00:10:16.049 because of the problems that they have. So I mean, do you kind 144 00:10:16.049 --> 00:10:18.649 of have like a round table or how does I you kind of handle that 145 00:10:18.690 --> 00:10:22.919 kind of internal marketing? Yeah, absolutely well. So with our brand strategy, 146 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:26.200 we had this big rollout plan for Spring of two thousand and twenty, 147 00:10:26.320 --> 00:10:30.960 and I think we all maybe know what happened there. That back, I've 148 00:10:31.039 --> 00:10:35.360 delayed and you know, we focused in and honed in on our covid response 149 00:10:35.110 --> 00:10:37.669 and so, you know, pushing that back a little that pushing that back 150 00:10:37.710 --> 00:10:41.509 by eight ten months, maybe longer than we had wanted to. But it 151 00:10:41.549 --> 00:10:43.830 also give us an opportunity, as we were doing all the things that needed 152 00:10:43.870 --> 00:10:46.789 to happen in two thousand and twenty with our covid response, it give us 153 00:10:46.789 --> 00:10:50.500 a little actually a little bit more time to retool things for the new world. 154 00:10:52.139 --> 00:10:54.259 The world is very different than it was, you know, when we 155 00:10:54.340 --> 00:10:56.740 made all of our plans in two thousand and nineteen, and so one of 156 00:10:56.779 --> 00:10:58.500 the things that we did and we always we always knew we were going to 157 00:10:58.620 --> 00:11:01.980 do this, but it morphed and evolved. Is We actually put together. 158 00:11:03.139 --> 00:11:05.970 This past summer in two thousand and twenty one, we did a storyteller summit 159 00:11:07.370 --> 00:11:11.409 and we opened that up to all of the Marcom community throughout Indiana University and 160 00:11:11.450 --> 00:11:16.690 quite honestly, anyone could have attended and it was a two day online virtual 161 00:11:16.850 --> 00:11:20.960 summit and we use that as an opportunity to roll out our brand and roll 162 00:11:22.039 --> 00:11:24.960 out the strategy which we had been talking about. You know, we had 163 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:28.840 been talking about it at a low hum but this was really the big you 164 00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:31.360 know, I wish I could say was a big TEDA. It was. 165 00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:35.870 It was really the opportunity for all of us to come together as a community 166 00:11:35.990 --> 00:11:39.590 and rally around this, and so we really spent that first day talking big 167 00:11:39.629 --> 00:11:41.710 pick. Sure, a big picture strategy. Where did it come from? 168 00:11:41.830 --> 00:11:46.230 How are we going to use it? Where are we trying to affect change? 169 00:11:46.350 --> 00:11:50.100 How these a community are going to get there? And then the second 170 00:11:50.100 --> 00:11:52.779 day was really about tactical execution. So we had a lot of different breakout 171 00:11:52.860 --> 00:11:56.740 sessions. I think we had twenty five or thirty in all you know from 172 00:11:56.820 --> 00:12:03.009 anywhere, from talking about, you know, data driven, data driven decisionmaking 173 00:12:03.129 --> 00:12:07.929 and reporting and how to use reports to help influence our stakeholders and use that 174 00:12:07.929 --> 00:12:11.929 as data driven decisions rather than driven decisions, all the way down to like, 175 00:12:11.009 --> 00:12:16.080 let's talk t how do we get in front of Gen Z in a 176 00:12:16.200 --> 00:12:20.320 way that is relevant and meaningful to them? And it's and the secret is 177 00:12:20.360 --> 00:12:24.480 it's not anything for us. It's exactly right, isn't it? Understand it, 178 00:12:24.600 --> 00:12:26.840 and I'm like, I don't get it, it's not for me and 179 00:12:28.600 --> 00:12:33.309 I'm the right tract. That's exactly right, eleanor. Recently, Indiana has 180 00:12:33.350 --> 00:12:37.830 a new president and I'm sure in your role that could mean change and that 181 00:12:37.029 --> 00:12:43.500 means different directions and certain aspects and maybe different priorities. If you could kind 182 00:12:43.500 --> 00:12:48.940 of tell us how that affected your job and your organization as a new president 183 00:12:48.019 --> 00:12:54.620 came in? Absolutely so. President Pamela witten's started July one of two thousand 184 00:12:54.620 --> 00:13:00.610 and twenty one of this year and she has really, I tell you what, 185 00:13:00.730 --> 00:13:05.009 she has hit the ground running. President WHITTON has a real clarity of 186 00:13:05.049 --> 00:13:09.330 vision and a clarity of voice that has been actually really, I would say, 187 00:13:09.409 --> 00:13:11.809 really helpful from my point of view and one of the things that she 188 00:13:11.879 --> 00:13:16.200 has articulated and and when you say it out loud it's like yes, of 189 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:18.720 course, no, due you are a higher Ed Institution. But her focus 190 00:13:18.759 --> 00:13:24.600 is on students. She is putting students first and foremost in everything she says 191 00:13:24.679 --> 00:13:28.070 and does and even just, you know, a nearly six month on the 192 00:13:28.070 --> 00:13:31.070 job, you can absolutely see that and what she's doing. And so students 193 00:13:31.110 --> 00:13:35.190 are her core focus area and student success. But the other two areas that 194 00:13:35.470 --> 00:13:39.629 she that we are really rallying around with her direction, is our research. 195 00:13:39.870 --> 00:13:43.820 We are in our one institution. We do a nominal amount of research and 196 00:13:45.059 --> 00:13:48.860 really life changing research, and so we have a great opportunity of even telling 197 00:13:48.980 --> 00:13:54.139 that story in an even more compelling way and in a way that connects with 198 00:13:54.220 --> 00:13:56.330 people's lives. You know, we just don't want to say, Hey, 199 00:13:56.370 --> 00:13:58.889 we got a huge grant. We want to say hey, we're doing Alzheimer's 200 00:13:58.929 --> 00:14:03.929 research. That is going to change how dementia is treated. That's that's the 201 00:14:03.009 --> 00:14:05.769 way we want to talk about right. You know, these things and then 202 00:14:05.809 --> 00:14:11.960 the other pieces really how articulating our benefit to the state and how we help 203 00:14:11.080 --> 00:14:16.159 Indiana thrive. And you know, as one of the largest employers in the 204 00:14:16.279 --> 00:14:20.039 state, as one of the largest student education providers, for college education for 205 00:14:20.120 --> 00:14:26.710 students in this state. We have a huge opportunity to really enhance the state 206 00:14:26.750 --> 00:14:31.750 of Indiana, both from educating the next generation of entrepreneurs, leaders, health, 207 00:14:31.950 --> 00:14:35.309 educators, legislators, you know, the that opportunity, but then also 208 00:14:35.350 --> 00:14:39.379 as as an economic driver, you know, thinking about all that the state 209 00:14:39.419 --> 00:14:45.500 can do and contribute from both a consumer of goods as an employer of people 210 00:14:45.539 --> 00:14:50.539 who also consume goods, and then and then thinking about all the entrepreneurial ways 211 00:14:50.659 --> 00:14:54.409 that we help take the research that our team, you know, our faculty 212 00:14:54.570 --> 00:14:58.210 in our folks are doing and then turn that into a business reality as well. 213 00:14:58.370 --> 00:15:03.809 And so, in terms of how that has shaped and change things for 214 00:15:03.850 --> 00:15:07.000 us, it's really given us, you know, some great rally points that 215 00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:11.840 we can really focus around. And so the way we think about it is 216 00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:15.759 we look at what is our messaging North Star? What is it that we 217 00:15:15.879 --> 00:15:18.840 are trying to communicate above all else? We're trying to talk about student success, 218 00:15:18.879 --> 00:15:22.669 about research, or also trying to, you know, really articulate how 219 00:15:22.750 --> 00:15:26.629 we help Indiana thrive and and when we're talking about you know, such a 220 00:15:26.629 --> 00:15:31.110 large, decentralized we're going to place. Like I you, everyone can connect 221 00:15:31.110 --> 00:15:35.669 to those things. So you know, even if you are our student facing 222 00:15:35.710 --> 00:15:39.059 organization or not, there is a way that you can articulate your benefit and 223 00:15:39.179 --> 00:15:43.460 tell your story that connects to one of those pieces, one of one of 224 00:15:43.539 --> 00:15:46.220 those three tenants. Yeah, I love that because I think that I constantly 225 00:15:46.259 --> 00:15:50.090 talked to different schools about the idea that one you've got to understand your distinctive, 226 00:15:50.090 --> 00:15:52.889 which is kind of that messaging North Star that you've talked about and have 227 00:15:54.129 --> 00:15:56.769 that. I really like that, that that phraseology. And then also the 228 00:15:56.850 --> 00:16:00.090 idea that we're going to be selling benefits, and it doesn't matter if you're 229 00:16:00.090 --> 00:16:04.000 selling benefits to the spect of students and Gen Z if you're talking to millennials 230 00:16:04.039 --> 00:16:08.480 or graduate adult students, or if you're talking to parents selling the benefit, 231 00:16:08.519 --> 00:16:11.399 even to the state of Indiana selling the benefit of what you're all about. 232 00:16:11.720 --> 00:16:15.919 I love that and I think that's a such a huge part of marketing that 233 00:16:15.039 --> 00:16:19.309 sometimes we as marketers forget because we get so wrapped up in Oh, the 234 00:16:19.429 --> 00:16:23.269 Dean wants to talk about the features of this new program and you know or 235 00:16:23.309 --> 00:16:26.429 somebody else wants to talk about the features of you know, something else. 236 00:16:26.590 --> 00:16:30.149 And yes, the features are important, but they point to the benefits. 237 00:16:30.230 --> 00:16:33.899 So I love the fact that you're doing that and I'm guessing that that's rolls 238 00:16:33.940 --> 00:16:36.580 into not only that enrollment and maybe some of thing you've talked about, but 239 00:16:36.820 --> 00:16:40.019 even into some of the retention elements as well. Yeah, absolutely, you 240 00:16:40.100 --> 00:16:41.820 know, it's we talked a lot about. I was literally just talking to 241 00:16:41.899 --> 00:16:45.820 a team member today about how, you know, we need to redirect a 242 00:16:45.899 --> 00:16:49.970 conversation from the features to the benefits. Everybody's has student services, everybody has 243 00:16:51.049 --> 00:16:55.330 a career center, but what is the Benett like? How does this help 244 00:16:55.409 --> 00:16:57.169 a student? Right, everybody's going to have a library, but what do 245 00:16:57.289 --> 00:17:00.799 our librarians do? What is our library? How is it helping students? 246 00:17:00.840 --> 00:17:03.400 And so, you know, just kind of and it's not even a huge 247 00:17:03.400 --> 00:17:07.359 switch, it's going from you know, it's like a fifteen percent shift in 248 00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:12.519 that and it's just taking that next step further. So the way we approach 249 00:17:12.680 --> 00:17:17.390 the work is really, you know, I'm a very user centator, human 250 00:17:17.470 --> 00:17:21.069 centered approach to the work that we do, and really that's all rooted in 251 00:17:21.230 --> 00:17:25.710 research and I will say this. There are lots of different ways to execute 252 00:17:25.750 --> 00:17:29.430 research. It doesn't have to be huge and complex and I've worked with a 253 00:17:29.509 --> 00:17:33.819 lot of different folks across all of our campuses and sometimes you have lots of 254 00:17:33.900 --> 00:17:37.380 resources and lots of time and you can really roll up your sleeve and, 255 00:17:37.819 --> 00:17:41.339 you know, make that pivot table and do twenty hours of qualitative research. 256 00:17:41.380 --> 00:17:45.009 Yeah, that's not always the norm. Not totally understand there that there's lots 257 00:17:45.009 --> 00:17:51.210 of different ways to connect with your audience to really understand their desires, their 258 00:17:51.289 --> 00:17:53.730 motivations and their obstacles. It could be social listening tools, it could be 259 00:17:53.769 --> 00:17:59.279 doing a poll on your instagram feed. It could there's lots of different ways 260 00:17:59.319 --> 00:18:03.480 to do that. It could be using existing research or surveys that you already 261 00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:06.759 have to mind for insights in a different way. There's lots of different ways 262 00:18:06.759 --> 00:18:11.440 that you can connect with your audience to really understand what is motivating them. 263 00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:14.670 And that's and that's really at the core of it. And so, you 264 00:18:14.789 --> 00:18:17.589 know, the other piece of it is also you know, we talked about 265 00:18:17.589 --> 00:18:19.910 everyone has a problem to solve. Well, a lot of times we solve 266 00:18:19.990 --> 00:18:25.309 it through our own lens and we don't always solve the right problem. Really 267 00:18:25.430 --> 00:18:30.299 understanding the problem space is super important to be able to say, you know, 268 00:18:30.380 --> 00:18:33.740 I thought the issue was x, but after doing some listening and doing 269 00:18:33.779 --> 00:18:37.980 some surveying or, you know, reviewing the quant research we already have. 270 00:18:37.059 --> 00:18:41.650 are looking at our enrollment numbers, I'm actually seeing the problem is why it's 271 00:18:41.690 --> 00:18:44.250 over, it's down here. It's not a funnel, it's down funnel or 272 00:18:44.250 --> 00:18:48.289 vice versa, and so that's really important to make sure that as we go 273 00:18:48.529 --> 00:18:52.049 forward, we are kind of doing a you know, zooming out to get 274 00:18:52.089 --> 00:18:56.640 that thirty, fiftyzero foot view to ensure that we are solving for the right 275 00:18:56.839 --> 00:19:00.279 things in the right way. And so, you know, when you're going 276 00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:03.440 back to those messaging nor stars, it's all well and good for us to 277 00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:08.680 want to communicate about student success and helping Indiana thrive in our research, but 278 00:19:08.759 --> 00:19:12.549 if it's not relevant to the audience we're talking to, they're not going to 279 00:19:12.630 --> 00:19:17.430 listen. It doesn't matter. That's exactly right. So thinking about you know, 280 00:19:17.470 --> 00:19:19.150 what are those features, the features that are going to be that are 281 00:19:19.150 --> 00:19:22.789 going to resonate thing bout student success? What's going to resonate for someone who 282 00:19:23.029 --> 00:19:26.980 is a junior and high school and really trying to think where do I want 283 00:19:27.019 --> 00:19:30.700 to go on my college visits next? It's going to be different than their 284 00:19:30.779 --> 00:19:33.819 parents. So, you know, we have the same things we want to 285 00:19:33.819 --> 00:19:37.900 communicate, but how we put that forward to folks and how we position that 286 00:19:37.299 --> 00:19:41.930 should be different based on the user. And so when I say, you 287 00:19:41.009 --> 00:19:45.809 know, User Center design or Human Center design, that that's really what we're 288 00:19:45.809 --> 00:19:49.289 thinking about. How do we put forward and position what we want to communicate 289 00:19:49.450 --> 00:19:53.759 in a way that one meets our business goals, meets our needs and communicates 290 00:19:53.839 --> 00:19:57.559 what we want folks to understand, but does so in a way that is 291 00:19:57.640 --> 00:20:03.440 really relevant and resonates with them as if it's if it's not relevant, it 292 00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:07.190 doesn't matter what we have to say. Eleanor, you've mentioned human centered leadership 293 00:20:07.190 --> 00:20:12.349 a couple of times and would like if you could explain what that means and 294 00:20:12.549 --> 00:20:18.869 then how you may utilize that either as a vehicle or a foundation for your 295 00:20:18.910 --> 00:20:22.059 leadership or decisions that are made in the organization. Yeah, yeah, I'm 296 00:20:22.099 --> 00:20:23.700 going to. I'm going to be honest with you, guys. I love 297 00:20:23.700 --> 00:20:29.420 a good chart. I'm a visual I'm a visual person, and I know 298 00:20:29.500 --> 00:20:32.740 we're on a podcast or no one can see the massive amount of hand movements 299 00:20:32.779 --> 00:20:37.410 I'm doing. But but they're moving everyone. She's using her hands. I 300 00:20:37.529 --> 00:20:41.769 am like, I'm like directing traffic over here. So I always think of 301 00:20:41.849 --> 00:20:45.009 it, you know, imagine a ven diagram and think about it. You 302 00:20:45.089 --> 00:20:47.890 know, when I think of human you know, human centered leadership, I 303 00:20:48.089 --> 00:20:52.440 think about, you know, really understanding what is it that the people involved 304 00:20:52.039 --> 00:20:56.559 want? What do they want to accomplish? What are they trying to solve 305 00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:00.000 for one of their motivations? And then we have the organizational need. Over 306 00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:03.549 here, we want to do x, Y or Z, whether that's communicate 307 00:21:03.589 --> 00:21:08.069 about something, drive revenue in a certain area. We want to is organize 308 00:21:08.069 --> 00:21:11.710 our teams in a certain way. We're trying to solve for the organizational needs, 309 00:21:12.029 --> 00:21:15.430 but also keep in mind what our end like, what the what the 310 00:21:15.509 --> 00:21:18.779 people involved, you know, what they need as well. And then and 311 00:21:18.859 --> 00:21:22.740 then the last piece that I always think about in that last circle in the 312 00:21:22.779 --> 00:21:27.059 ven diagram is the feasibility. Can we do these things right? Because everything 313 00:21:27.099 --> 00:21:30.539 that are the end user, the people want, may not always meet the 314 00:21:30.619 --> 00:21:34.289 organizational need. And so, you know, adding in that layer and we 315 00:21:34.450 --> 00:21:38.049 do these things like maybe everybody wants to work, you know, three day 316 00:21:38.089 --> 00:21:41.849 weeks. But yeah, well, we can't get our work done in that 317 00:21:41.930 --> 00:21:44.289 amount of time. So, like, even though those things come together, 318 00:21:44.410 --> 00:21:48.119 it doesn't mean that they're actually feasible. And that's a terrible example. So 319 00:21:48.200 --> 00:21:51.960 I always really try to focus on, you know, that magical intersection of 320 00:21:52.039 --> 00:21:56.880 those three things really being some of the to help lead decisionmaking or help lead 321 00:21:56.240 --> 00:22:00.640 as we're you know, if we're reshaping a team, really thinking about, 322 00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:03.750 okay, well, it's going to serve our people, because when our people 323 00:22:03.789 --> 00:22:07.630 are well served they do their best work. And what is going to serve 324 00:22:07.710 --> 00:22:11.670 the organization? Because if we're not serving the organization, it doesn't come. 325 00:22:11.789 --> 00:22:14.109 We have to keep the lights on, we have to keep the doors open. 326 00:22:14.150 --> 00:22:17.619 And the other pieces do we have? Do we have the bandwidth, 327 00:22:18.099 --> 00:22:21.500 the skill sets? Do we have the revenue? Do we have the dollars 328 00:22:21.619 --> 00:22:23.900 to do these things as well? And so finding that beautiful, magical, 329 00:22:25.059 --> 00:22:27.980 not always easy, intersection of those three things is is a lot of the 330 00:22:29.019 --> 00:22:32.170 ways that I try to approach, you know, my leadership decisions, both 331 00:22:32.210 --> 00:22:34.809 from an organizational standpoint and from a marketing standpoint as well. You can you 332 00:22:34.890 --> 00:22:38.089 can add that you can create, that those those thinking of those circles. 333 00:22:38.130 --> 00:22:41.089 You can add that Lens to just about anything you're working on. You know, 334 00:22:41.490 --> 00:22:45.119 is it desirable? Do People want it? Is it feasible? Can 335 00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:48.359 we do it and is it viable? Does it meet our business needs? 336 00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:49.799 And when you start, you know, looking at back through that Lens where 337 00:22:49.839 --> 00:22:53.319 you have to take all three boxes, which is one hard to do, 338 00:22:55.319 --> 00:23:00.029 but to it means that you're answering those three essential items or elements to answer 339 00:23:00.069 --> 00:23:03.549 any decision that you're trying to make. I think that's great because I think 340 00:23:03.549 --> 00:23:06.390 so many times as marketers, whether it's in high at or other places, 341 00:23:06.910 --> 00:23:10.150 we kind of get stuck in this mode of well, we have this, 342 00:23:10.269 --> 00:23:11.549 so we want to make sure that everybody knows about it and we want to 343 00:23:11.549 --> 00:23:15.740 sell this, but if it's not really what people are looking for, then 344 00:23:15.779 --> 00:23:18.859 it doesn't often work, and that's that's that's just a small idea, but 345 00:23:18.140 --> 00:23:22.740 I really like that. Then diagram overlap idea of what you're talking about. 346 00:23:22.779 --> 00:23:26.730 I think it's so true. So as we reach the end of the conversation 347 00:23:27.289 --> 00:23:33.490 with there would be a last thought or maybe a quick hit piece of advice 348 00:23:33.609 --> 00:23:37.170 that you could give other marketers that could be listening and that they could glean 349 00:23:37.289 --> 00:23:41.240 from the wisdom that you have. Well, I would say just always, 350 00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:48.000 always keep listening and learning, and I know that is not to be not 351 00:23:48.119 --> 00:23:51.599 to be rude, doctive, but always keep listening and learning. You know, 352 00:23:51.799 --> 00:23:56.029 when thinking about how do we best connect with our audiences, we have 353 00:23:56.150 --> 00:24:02.190 to put them ourselves in their shoes, and so, whether that's reading all 354 00:24:02.269 --> 00:24:06.430 of the comments that come in through social media or actually doing, you know, 355 00:24:06.470 --> 00:24:11.180 qualitative or quantitative research, to listen and learn and whatever, wherever you 356 00:24:11.420 --> 00:24:15.180 fall in that range of complexity, you know, and that range of sophistication 357 00:24:15.380 --> 00:24:21.420 when it comes to research, just always keep listening and and be responsive to 358 00:24:21.539 --> 00:24:25.250 that and shape your decisions around what you're learning is as you're listening to your 359 00:24:25.289 --> 00:24:29.730 end user. Thank you. Well. Nor well said. If someone would 360 00:24:29.730 --> 00:24:33.650 like to reach you and or contact you for any reason, what would be 361 00:24:33.690 --> 00:24:36.369 the best way for them to do so? You know I'm on Linkedin. 362 00:24:36.650 --> 00:24:41.599 Linkedin would be the best way. Perfect, and that's Eleanor Burman. Eleanor 363 00:24:41.720 --> 00:24:48.640 Burman Net. That's small school called Indiana University. Perhaps we've heard. Well, 364 00:24:49.160 --> 00:24:52.789 I'm Ohio State Guy, but I will say on your behalf. Go 365 00:24:52.950 --> 00:24:59.390 whosers, who's that's right, he'll be read. I won't go that far, 366 00:24:59.950 --> 00:25:03.069 bar. Do you Bart? Do you have any final thought that you 367 00:25:03.150 --> 00:25:06.589 could offer? Yeah, I just wanted to point out a few things at 368 00:25:06.630 --> 00:25:10.220 Eleanor said that I thought is just good takeaways. That that I would make 369 00:25:10.259 --> 00:25:11.700 sure that if you didn't hear it, maybe go back and listen to it. 370 00:25:11.779 --> 00:25:15.819 But the idea that everybody that we're dealing with is trying to solve a 371 00:25:15.900 --> 00:25:18.500 problem. You know, whether that's your internal clients, you know, with 372 00:25:18.700 --> 00:25:22.529 with a centralized, decentralized marketing team like I you has, where you're going 373 00:25:22.569 --> 00:25:25.369 to be talking to the deans the college, is a different places. They're 374 00:25:25.369 --> 00:25:26.809 trying to solve a problem. So trying to keep that in mind, but 375 00:25:26.890 --> 00:25:30.769 also keep in mind that you're your end consumers, if you will, whether 376 00:25:30.890 --> 00:25:34.799 those are perspective students, whether their perspective parents, they're trying to solve a 377 00:25:34.839 --> 00:25:38.759 problem as well. They have questions that need answered and as marketers, it's 378 00:25:38.799 --> 00:25:42.799 our it's our responsibility to do that in a way that helps them, first 379 00:25:42.839 --> 00:25:45.720 and foremost, solve their problem. I also really like the fact that she 380 00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:49.950 talked about how I you really utilize as the messaging North Star and the idea 381 00:25:49.950 --> 00:25:53.150 of really trying to kind of focus in on what are those benefits that we're 382 00:25:53.190 --> 00:25:56.470 trying to share? What is that North Star that we can all together as 383 00:25:56.470 --> 00:26:00.309 a community, point to and work toward? I think that's going to that's 384 00:26:00.349 --> 00:26:04.099 going to really a lot of ways. In the marketing department sometimes we feel 385 00:26:04.099 --> 00:26:07.660 like we have so many different headaches because nobody gets us and nobody understands us 386 00:26:07.660 --> 00:26:11.420 and those types of things. But if we can make sure that we're communicating 387 00:26:11.460 --> 00:26:15.500 that North Star very clearly, succinctly and articulated over and over and over again 388 00:26:15.500 --> 00:26:18.329 internally, that's going to help you with with a lot of the work that 389 00:26:18.369 --> 00:26:21.970 you're trying to do. And then, finally, I really appreciated her last 390 00:26:22.009 --> 00:26:26.049 comment there about the listening and learning and obviously if you're if you're listening right 391 00:26:26.089 --> 00:26:30.609 now, you are learning and that you have that desire and that's I congratulate 392 00:26:30.650 --> 00:26:33.920 you on that. I would encourage you to also just continue to be a 393 00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:38.599 lifelong learner and go and find as many, many different types of aspects you 394 00:26:38.720 --> 00:26:41.000 can to do that. So, eleanor, thank you so much for being 395 00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:44.759 on the show today my pleasure. Thank you for having me. Thank you 396 00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:48.150 for that thought, Bart and thank you both for a wonderful conversation. The 397 00:26:48.190 --> 00:26:56.430 hired marketer podcast is sponsored by Taylor solutions and education, marketing strategy and branding 398 00:26:56.509 --> 00:27:03.220 agency and by Think, patented, a marketing execution company combining print, mail 399 00:27:03.819 --> 00:27:08.099 and digital engagement will fullblown outreach programs. Thank you for listening to the hired 400 00:27:08.140 --> 00:27:15.890 marketer podcast. You've been listening to the Higher Ed Marketer. To ensure that 401 00:27:15.049 --> 00:27:19.049 you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. 402 00:27:19.930 --> 00:27:23.170 If you're listening with apple PODCASTS, we'd love for you to leave a 403 00:27:23.210 --> 00:27:26.730 quick rating of the show. 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