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Jan. 18, 2022

Solving For the Right Things in the Right Way: IU Strategies to Retain Students

Solving For the Right Things in the Right Way: IU Strategies to Retain Students

Even at a small college, the risk of becoming siloed is high. At a large school with multiple campuses, it’s crucial to emphasize clarity of vision. Without it, employees will go rogue trying to solve the problems in front of them.

We speak with Eleanor Berman, Chief Marketing Officer at Indiana University, about her experience with decentralized marketing organizations, solving the $800 million question of removing siloes, and helping Indiana thrive by putting students first.

Join us as we discuss:

- Managing a decentralized marketing organization & avoiding silos

- Handling internal marketing

- The impact of a new college president on Eleanor’s position

- Telling the stories of the benefits & human-centered leadership

To hear more interviews like this one, subscribe to Higher Ed Marketer on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your preferred podcast platform.

The Higher Ed Marketer podcast is sponsored by Caylor Solutions, an Education Marketing and Branding Agency, and by Think Patented, a Marketing Execution, Printing and Mailing provider of Higher Ed solutions.

    

 

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:03.080 You know, I come across something or someone brings me something that is way 2 00:00:03.200 --> 00:00:06.639 off strategy. It's not that folks are trying to go row, they're just 3 00:00:06.759 --> 00:00:11.070 going to solve a problem. That's right before though, you are listening to 4 00:00:11.150 --> 00:00:15.509 the Higher Ed Marketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals in higher education. 5 00:00:16.550 --> 00:00:20.510 This show will tackle all sorts of questions related to student recruitment, don't a 6 00:00:20.629 --> 00:00:24.940 relations, marketing trends, new technologies and so much more. If you are 7 00:00:25.019 --> 00:00:29.179 looking for conversations centered around where the industry is going, this podcast is for 8 00:00:29.300 --> 00:00:36.130 you. Let's get into the show. Welcome to the High Ed Marketer podcast. 9 00:00:36.329 --> 00:00:39.929 My name is troy singer and I'm always proud to be with my cohost, 10 00:00:40.009 --> 00:00:43.929 Bart Taylor, who is the Mickey Mouse Club apologist of the duo, 11 00:00:44.369 --> 00:00:49.170 and today we are talking to Eleanor Berman, who serves as the Chief Marketing 12 00:00:49.289 --> 00:00:54.159 Officer at Indiana University, and she is one of the best people that we 13 00:00:54.240 --> 00:01:00.039 can talk to in regard to decentralize marketing organizations and how the best navigate them. 14 00:01:00.079 --> 00:01:03.600 Yeah, it's a great conversation with with Alanor and and again, if 15 00:01:03.679 --> 00:01:06.870 you're a smaller school, don't hang up. You know, stay on because 16 00:01:06.870 --> 00:01:10.069 there's so many good things that we talked about that I think are extremely relevant 17 00:01:10.109 --> 00:01:15.950 for smaller schools that you might not have a large marketing team like eleanor leads, 18 00:01:15.030 --> 00:01:19.219 but I think that she has so many good things to say that apply 19 00:01:19.379 --> 00:01:22.780 to all levels of highed marketing. I think it's a really valuable conversation. 20 00:01:22.859 --> 00:01:26.859 Yeah, and as a conversation where she gives a lot of great advice and 21 00:01:26.939 --> 00:01:32.340 a lot of great insight, but in a very lovely way and without further 22 00:01:32.379 --> 00:01:38.209 ado. Let's join our conversation with Eleanor Burman. It is my pleasure to 23 00:01:38.290 --> 00:01:45.090 welcome Eleanor Burman to the Higher Ed Marketer. Eleanor, in case someone hasn't 24 00:01:45.129 --> 00:01:49.239 heard your name here in the Midwest, you are the CMO of a little 25 00:01:49.319 --> 00:01:53.480 small school in a particular state that's not too far from Bart and if you 26 00:01:53.560 --> 00:01:57.680 would please give us a little bit of interesting facts about you, the school 27 00:01:59.239 --> 00:02:02.030 and the role that you play there. Absolutely thanks so much for having me. 28 00:02:02.069 --> 00:02:06.349 I'm really excited to be here. I am the Chief Marketing Officer at 29 00:02:06.430 --> 00:02:10.030 Indiana University, so just a law school that I that I know you guys 30 00:02:10.110 --> 00:02:14.509 have heard of down the road, up the road, left and right of 31 00:02:14.590 --> 00:02:16.860 the road as well. I've been with the university. It'll be ten years 32 00:02:17.020 --> 00:02:21.860 in February, so you've been with the university for some time. It's the 33 00:02:21.979 --> 00:02:23.900 longest I've worked anywhere, which I think is a testament to both the work 34 00:02:23.979 --> 00:02:27.900 and the teams that we have there. You know a little bit about me. 35 00:02:27.939 --> 00:02:31.610 Before coming into higher ed I lived and worked in Chicago and the Arts 36 00:02:31.650 --> 00:02:37.490 Community there in arts marketing and have the opportunity to work for some phenomenal organizations, 37 00:02:38.009 --> 00:02:42.330 including the Goodman Theater, writers theater, the second city. I cut 38 00:02:42.370 --> 00:02:46.360 my teeth there, all working in arts marketing and at a certain point decided 39 00:02:46.400 --> 00:02:52.080 to switch things up and moved. Moved to Indiana and started my career at 40 00:02:52.120 --> 00:02:55.400 it at I you about ten years ago, and always within the Central Marketing 41 00:02:55.479 --> 00:03:00.150 Office for the university and our various combinations and permutations. We've had a couple 42 00:03:00.150 --> 00:03:04.270 of reorgans in the last ten years, which you know we all go through, 43 00:03:04.430 --> 00:03:07.310 but always with a foot and strategy and that is really the focus of 44 00:03:07.469 --> 00:03:12.710 what I do now as the chief marketing officer. So at the broadest in 45 00:03:12.789 --> 00:03:16.580 the broadest way, you know, my role is really to develop and lead 46 00:03:16.740 --> 00:03:23.819 the execution of the university's brand strategy and very broadly that that brand strategy is 47 00:03:23.939 --> 00:03:30.770 to positively affect and enhance the university's reputation, to enhance enrollment. And when 48 00:03:30.810 --> 00:03:35.889 I say enrollment, I'm talking about recruitment and retention and, you know, 49 00:03:35.969 --> 00:03:39.610 really thinking about the lifetime engagement. How do we keep our constituents engaged from 50 00:03:39.610 --> 00:03:44.240 from the very first time they encounter iu which could be, you know, 51 00:03:44.400 --> 00:03:49.199 watching, watching football or basketball on TV or coming to a summer camp when 52 00:03:49.199 --> 00:03:52.960 they're in when they're in grade school or Middle School, all the way through 53 00:03:53.000 --> 00:03:55.830 graduation and beyond. So thinking about you know, at the at the highest 54 00:03:55.870 --> 00:04:00.990 level, our job is done when we've got progressed people along the pathway to 55 00:04:00.110 --> 00:04:03.310 loving I you for life. And then, a little more specifically, when 56 00:04:03.310 --> 00:04:08.069 we're talking about the brand for I you, you know, and and our 57 00:04:08.150 --> 00:04:11.740 role within our central marketing office, you know, we're responsible for what I 58 00:04:11.819 --> 00:04:16.060 consider what I would call the capital B brand of Indiana University and we market 59 00:04:16.300 --> 00:04:20.819 and manage the brand for our core campuses and Bloomington and at Ipui, and 60 00:04:20.899 --> 00:04:26.089 then, in a more localized way, we also work with our various campus 61 00:04:26.089 --> 00:04:30.970 schools and units to help them solve their marketing problems, marketing problems or opportunities, 62 00:04:31.009 --> 00:04:34.970 depending on how full or if the glasses we work with with those folks 63 00:04:35.009 --> 00:04:41.079 across the entire university system as well. I think we really wanted to talk 64 00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:45.759 about with you, since you oversee a large organization, how to approach, 65 00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:53.310 shore manage a decentralized marketing organization and wrap your arms around it. And for 66 00:04:53.509 --> 00:04:57.110 context, you mentioned a couple of the campuses, but if you can, 67 00:04:57.430 --> 00:05:01.870 you're marketing organization, how many campuses, centers are under your per for you? 68 00:05:02.189 --> 00:05:08.019 Yeah, absolutely so. Indiana University, we are a large statewide system 69 00:05:08.060 --> 00:05:13.860 school. So we have officially seven campuses. We have our two core campuses 70 00:05:14.259 --> 00:05:18.339 that probably folks are most familiar with in Bloomington, our largest and oldest campus, 71 00:05:18.819 --> 00:05:25.290 and then at IUPUI, which is Indiana University for due university Indianapolis. 72 00:05:26.209 --> 00:05:30.129 That's what that stands for. And then we also have five regional campuses throughout 73 00:05:30.129 --> 00:05:34.129 the state and those were developed, were created, you know, fifty plus 74 00:05:34.170 --> 00:05:39.519 years ago. Are Fifty or so and some change years ago to really serve 75 00:05:39.639 --> 00:05:44.839 the communities and their their regions. And then also we have two centers, 76 00:05:45.040 --> 00:05:47.199 one in Columbus, Indiana and Fort Wayne, and then we also have a 77 00:05:47.240 --> 00:05:51.709 global footprint. We have five global gateways around the world. We have a 78 00:05:53.029 --> 00:05:58.790 seven hundred and twenty five thousand living alumni. We Have Twenty One tho faculty 79 00:05:58.910 --> 00:06:02.310 and staff across the State and this year we have nearly a hundred thousand students 80 00:06:02.709 --> 00:06:09.060 enrolls. So I use a large organization. It is quite a large place. 81 00:06:09.139 --> 00:06:11.540 Will tell me a little bit about I mean when you're working on something 82 00:06:11.579 --> 00:06:15.500 like that. I mean, obviously scale is something, but when you when 83 00:06:15.540 --> 00:06:17.339 I when I hear that, how do you kind of work through? And 84 00:06:17.500 --> 00:06:20.970 I think this is relevant to any any audience that's listening, because I was 85 00:06:21.009 --> 00:06:26.129 at a small, small school doing a project a few a few weeks ago 86 00:06:26.290 --> 00:06:30.769 and their marketing team was only five six people. The entire enrollment team, 87 00:06:30.129 --> 00:06:34.519 the entire enrollment at the university was maybe three or four hundred students, and 88 00:06:34.560 --> 00:06:39.040 so it was a very small school, but I was still I walked away 89 00:06:39.240 --> 00:06:42.720 with some notes that I shared with the with the leadership, is that it 90 00:06:42.879 --> 00:06:46.279 was very siload and I was really surprised, even at a very small school 91 00:06:46.319 --> 00:06:47.990 like that. You know, the the tendency to kind of stay in your 92 00:06:47.990 --> 00:06:51.629 own silo, your own your pocket. How do you work with that? 93 00:06:51.750 --> 00:06:56.629 I mean at an institution like I you and with a large marketing team like 94 00:06:56.750 --> 00:07:00.230 you have and the different constituencies? How do you keep from becoming siload where 95 00:07:00.430 --> 00:07:03.300 you know, one side doesn't know what the other side's doing? Absolutely that 96 00:07:03.579 --> 00:07:09.939 is the eight hundred million dollar question. If we solve it here today, 97 00:07:10.139 --> 00:07:14.779 we're we're doing right. Yes, you know, we really. The my 98 00:07:14.980 --> 00:07:17.089 approach has been and how I've how we have a proach it and how I 99 00:07:17.170 --> 00:07:21.649 have approached it is really clarity of vision and I always kind of when I 100 00:07:21.730 --> 00:07:25.769 think about you know, we have our brand strategy and it is, you 101 00:07:25.850 --> 00:07:29.970 know, my responsibility, our units responsibility, to ensure that we have clearly 102 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:33.399 articulated what it is we're trying to do, why we're trying to do it 103 00:07:33.800 --> 00:07:39.839 and where did it come from. I think the the understanding of the background, 104 00:07:40.000 --> 00:07:42.879 the research, you know, I think that's really important for people to 105 00:07:42.920 --> 00:07:45.829 understand that we didn't just pick this out of a hat. It wasn't eaten 106 00:07:45.910 --> 00:07:48.870 with. With any organization as large and decentralize as I you we do a 107 00:07:48.990 --> 00:07:53.430 great many things and we have a great many stories to tell, but if 108 00:07:53.470 --> 00:07:56.149 we all are shouting at the top of our lungs, we're just going to 109 00:07:56.269 --> 00:08:00.579 create noise. Right. So I think really my approach has been and what 110 00:08:00.779 --> 00:08:05.139 has worked well, is having that clear that clarity of vision that is well 111 00:08:05.220 --> 00:08:11.220 articulated and well crafted so folks can really understand what is the big picture. 112 00:08:11.579 --> 00:08:15.569 And then, on the flip side of that coin, I think we also 113 00:08:15.689 --> 00:08:18.610 have to really, you know, think of it from the point of view 114 00:08:18.610 --> 00:08:20.850 of how are we helping people to solve their problems, right, coming from 115 00:08:20.850 --> 00:08:24.889 the very top to all the way, you know, from the very top 116 00:08:24.930 --> 00:08:26.759 of like let's set a brand strategy, to the very all the way down 117 00:08:26.759 --> 00:08:31.639 to the tactical execution of a social post. Everyone's trying to solve a problem 118 00:08:31.959 --> 00:08:33.799 or all trying to meet our business needs. Were all trying to solve those 119 00:08:33.840 --> 00:08:39.159 problems. How do we help folks see themselves and connect back to that vision 120 00:08:39.440 --> 00:08:43.590 and then provide them with the tools, the resources, the materials they need 121 00:08:43.669 --> 00:08:50.230 to do their jobs right? So it's less about don't do X, don't 122 00:08:50.350 --> 00:08:54.110 say why, and more of Hey, you have this really robust story to 123 00:08:54.149 --> 00:08:56.779 tell, because we do a great many things. How do we connect that 124 00:08:56.980 --> 00:09:01.539 back to this larger story that we're trying to articulate for the university as a 125 00:09:01.580 --> 00:09:05.740 whole? Nine Times out of ten, I've found when, you know, 126 00:09:05.779 --> 00:09:09.539 I come across something or someone brings me something that is way off strategy. 127 00:09:09.049 --> 00:09:11.570 It's not that folks are trying to go row right, they're just going to 128 00:09:11.610 --> 00:09:15.809 solve a problem that's right before them. And so, you know, thinking 129 00:09:15.850 --> 00:09:18.970 about it from that point of view is how do we put as much information, 130 00:09:18.049 --> 00:09:24.320 as much empowerment, as many tools and resources into folks hands so they 131 00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:28.200 can do their best work and do what they know best and and manage that, 132 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:33.559 you know, and their localized environment, and still connect back to those 133 00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:37.519 larger brand straded, the larger brand strategy and, you know, help us 134 00:09:37.559 --> 00:09:41.909 move the needle on those big picture, big picture goals. It's almost like, 135 00:09:41.509 --> 00:09:45.269 and I've seen some schools do this, where there has to be a 136 00:09:45.509 --> 00:09:48.629 little bit of an emphasis, or a little bit of attention, I should 137 00:09:48.629 --> 00:09:52.980 say, to maybe some internal marketing, some internal communications, so that you've 138 00:09:52.019 --> 00:09:56.059 got to make sure that everybody is on the same page, because otherwise you 139 00:09:56.179 --> 00:09:58.820 end up being, like you said, the brand police were walking around issuing 140 00:09:58.899 --> 00:10:05.779 citations as opposed to doing the effort to actually educate all the constituencies, not 141 00:10:05.860 --> 00:10:09.529 just the marketing people but also, you know, those those people that are, 142 00:10:09.889 --> 00:10:11.929 you know, the deans and other people that are are making to decisions 143 00:10:13.049 --> 00:10:16.049 because of the problems that they have. So I mean, do you kind 144 00:10:16.049 --> 00:10:18.649 of have like a round table or how does I you kind of handle that 145 00:10:18.690 --> 00:10:22.919 kind of internal marketing? Yeah, absolutely well. So with our brand strategy, 146 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:26.200 we had this big rollout plan for Spring of two thousand and twenty, 147 00:10:26.320 --> 00:10:30.960 and I think we all maybe know what happened there. That back, I've 148 00:10:31.039 --> 00:10:35.360 delayed and you know, we focused in and honed in on our covid response 149 00:10:35.110 --> 00:10:37.669 and so, you know, pushing that back a little that pushing that back 150 00:10:37.710 --> 00:10:41.509 by eight ten months, maybe longer than we had wanted to. But it 151 00:10:41.549 --> 00:10:43.830 also give us an opportunity, as we were doing all the things that needed 152 00:10:43.870 --> 00:10:46.789 to happen in two thousand and twenty with our covid response, it give us 153 00:10:46.789 --> 00:10:50.500 a little actually a little bit more time to retool things for the new world. 154 00:10:52.139 --> 00:10:54.259 The world is very different than it was, you know, when we 155 00:10:54.340 --> 00:10:56.740 made all of our plans in two thousand and nineteen, and so one of 156 00:10:56.779 --> 00:10:58.500 the things that we did and we always we always knew we were going to 157 00:10:58.620 --> 00:11:01.980 do this, but it morphed and evolved. Is We actually put together. 158 00:11:03.139 --> 00:11:05.970 This past summer in two thousand and twenty one, we did a storyteller summit 159 00:11:07.370 --> 00:11:11.409 and we opened that up to all of the Marcom community throughout Indiana University and 160 00:11:11.450 --> 00:11:16.690 quite honestly, anyone could have attended and it was a two day online virtual 161 00:11:16.850 --> 00:11:20.960 summit and we use that as an opportunity to roll out our brand and roll 162 00:11:22.039 --> 00:11:24.960 out the strategy which we had been talking about. You know, we had 163 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:28.840 been talking about it at a low hum but this was really the big you 164 00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:31.360 know, I wish I could say was a big TEDA. It was. 165 00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:35.870 It was really the opportunity for all of us to come together as a community 166 00:11:35.990 --> 00:11:39.590 and rally around this, and so we really spent that first day talking big 167 00:11:39.629 --> 00:11:41.710 pick. Sure, a big picture strategy. Where did it come from? 168 00:11:41.830 --> 00:11:46.230 How are we going to use it? Where are we trying to affect change? 169 00:11:46.350 --> 00:11:50.100 How these a community are going to get there? And then the second 170 00:11:50.100 --> 00:11:52.779 day was really about tactical execution. So we had a lot of different breakout 171 00:11:52.860 --> 00:11:56.740 sessions. I think we had twenty five or thirty in all you know from 172 00:11:56.820 --> 00:12:03.009 anywhere, from talking about, you know, data driven, data driven decisionmaking 173 00:12:03.129 --> 00:12:07.929 and reporting and how to use reports to help influence our stakeholders and use that 174 00:12:07.929 --> 00:12:11.929 as data driven decisions rather than driven decisions, all the way down to like, 175 00:12:11.009 --> 00:12:16.080 let's talk t how do we get in front of Gen Z in a 176 00:12:16.200 --> 00:12:20.320 way that is relevant and meaningful to them? And it's and the secret is 177 00:12:20.360 --> 00:12:24.480 it's not anything for us. It's exactly right, isn't it? Understand it, 178 00:12:24.600 --> 00:12:26.840 and I'm like, I don't get it, it's not for me and 179 00:12:28.600 --> 00:12:33.309 I'm the right tract. That's exactly right, eleanor. Recently, Indiana has 180 00:12:33.350 --> 00:12:37.830 a new president and I'm sure in your role that could mean change and that 181 00:12:37.029 --> 00:12:43.500 means different directions and certain aspects and maybe different priorities. If you could kind 182 00:12:43.500 --> 00:12:48.940 of tell us how that affected your job and your organization as a new president 183 00:12:48.019 --> 00:12:54.620 came in? Absolutely so. President Pamela witten's started July one of two thousand 184 00:12:54.620 --> 00:13:00.610 and twenty one of this year and she has really, I tell you what, 185 00:13:00.730 --> 00:13:05.009 she has hit the ground running. President WHITTON has a real clarity of 186 00:13:05.049 --> 00:13:09.330 vision and a clarity of voice that has been actually really, I would say, 187 00:13:09.409 --> 00:13:11.809 really helpful from my point of view and one of the things that she 188 00:13:11.879 --> 00:13:16.200 has articulated and and when you say it out loud it's like yes, of 189 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:18.720 course, no, due you are a higher Ed Institution. But her focus 190 00:13:18.759 --> 00:13:24.600 is on students. She is putting students first and foremost in everything she says 191 00:13:24.679 --> 00:13:28.070 and does and even just, you know, a nearly six month on the 192 00:13:28.070 --> 00:13:31.070 job, you can absolutely see that and what she's doing. And so students 193 00:13:31.110 --> 00:13:35.190 are her core focus area and student success. But the other two areas that 194 00:13:35.470 --> 00:13:39.629 she that we are really rallying around with her direction, is our research. 195 00:13:39.870 --> 00:13:43.820 We are in our one institution. We do a nominal amount of research and 196 00:13:45.059 --> 00:13:48.860 really life changing research, and so we have a great opportunity of even telling 197 00:13:48.980 --> 00:13:54.139 that story in an even more compelling way and in a way that connects with 198 00:13:54.220 --> 00:13:56.330 people's lives. You know, we just don't want to say, Hey, 199 00:13:56.370 --> 00:13:58.889 we got a huge grant. We want to say hey, we're doing Alzheimer's 200 00:13:58.929 --> 00:14:03.929 research. That is going to change how dementia is treated. That's that's the 201 00:14:03.009 --> 00:14:05.769 way we want to talk about right. You know, these things and then 202 00:14:05.809 --> 00:14:11.960 the other pieces really how articulating our benefit to the state and how we help 203 00:14:11.080 --> 00:14:16.159 Indiana thrive. And you know, as one of the largest employers in the 204 00:14:16.279 --> 00:14:20.039 state, as one of the largest student education providers, for college education for 205 00:14:20.120 --> 00:14:26.710 students in this state. We have a huge opportunity to really enhance the state 206 00:14:26.750 --> 00:14:31.750 of Indiana, both from educating the next generation of entrepreneurs, leaders, health, 207 00:14:31.950 --> 00:14:35.309 educators, legislators, you know, the that opportunity, but then also 208 00:14:35.350 --> 00:14:39.379 as as an economic driver, you know, thinking about all that the state 209 00:14:39.419 --> 00:14:45.500 can do and contribute from both a consumer of goods as an employer of people 210 00:14:45.539 --> 00:14:50.539 who also consume goods, and then and then thinking about all the entrepreneurial ways 211 00:14:50.659 --> 00:14:54.409 that we help take the research that our team, you know, our faculty 212 00:14:54.570 --> 00:14:58.210 in our folks are doing and then turn that into a business reality as well. 213 00:14:58.370 --> 00:15:03.809 And so, in terms of how that has shaped and change things for 214 00:15:03.850 --> 00:15:07.000 us, it's really given us, you know, some great rally points that 215 00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:11.840 we can really focus around. And so the way we think about it is 216 00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:15.759 we look at what is our messaging North Star? What is it that we 217 00:15:15.879 --> 00:15:18.840 are trying to communicate above all else? We're trying to talk about student success, 218 00:15:18.879 --> 00:15:22.669 about research, or also trying to, you know, really articulate how 219 00:15:22.750 --> 00:15:26.629 we help Indiana thrive and and when we're talking about you know, such a 220 00:15:26.629 --> 00:15:31.110 large, decentralized we're going to place. Like I you, everyone can connect 221 00:15:31.110 --> 00:15:35.669 to those things. So you know, even if you are our student facing 222 00:15:35.710 --> 00:15:39.059 organization or not, there is a way that you can articulate your benefit and 223 00:15:39.179 --> 00:15:43.460 tell your story that connects to one of those pieces, one of one of 224 00:15:43.539 --> 00:15:46.220 those three tenants. Yeah, I love that because I think that I constantly 225 00:15:46.259 --> 00:15:50.090 talked to different schools about the idea that one you've got to understand your distinctive, 226 00:15:50.090 --> 00:15:52.889 which is kind of that messaging North Star that you've talked about and have 227 00:15:54.129 --> 00:15:56.769 that. I really like that, that that phraseology. And then also the 228 00:15:56.850 --> 00:16:00.090 idea that we're going to be selling benefits, and it doesn't matter if you're 229 00:16:00.090 --> 00:16:04.000 selling benefits to the spect of students and Gen Z if you're talking to millennials 230 00:16:04.039 --> 00:16:08.480 or graduate adult students, or if you're talking to parents selling the benefit, 231 00:16:08.519 --> 00:16:11.399 even to the state of Indiana selling the benefit of what you're all about. 232 00:16:11.720 --> 00:16:15.919 I love that and I think that's a such a huge part of marketing that 233 00:16:15.039 --> 00:16:19.309 sometimes we as marketers forget because we get so wrapped up in Oh, the 234 00:16:19.429 --> 00:16:23.269 Dean wants to talk about the features of this new program and you know or 235 00:16:23.309 --> 00:16:26.429 somebody else wants to talk about the features of you know, something else. 236 00:16:26.590 --> 00:16:30.149 And yes, the features are important, but they point to the benefits. 237 00:16:30.230 --> 00:16:33.899 So I love the fact that you're doing that and I'm guessing that that's rolls 238 00:16:33.940 --> 00:16:36.580 into not only that enrollment and maybe some of thing you've talked about, but 239 00:16:36.820 --> 00:16:40.019 even into some of the retention elements as well. Yeah, absolutely, you 240 00:16:40.100 --> 00:16:41.820 know, it's we talked a lot about. I was literally just talking to 241 00:16:41.899 --> 00:16:45.820 a team member today about how, you know, we need to redirect a 242 00:16:45.899 --> 00:16:49.970 conversation from the features to the benefits. Everybody's has student services, everybody has 243 00:16:51.049 --> 00:16:55.330 a career center, but what is the Benett like? How does this help 244 00:16:55.409 --> 00:16:57.169 a student? Right, everybody's going to have a library, but what do 245 00:16:57.289 --> 00:17:00.799 our librarians do? What is our library? How is it helping students? 246 00:17:00.840 --> 00:17:03.400 And so, you know, just kind of and it's not even a huge 247 00:17:03.400 --> 00:17:07.359 switch, it's going from you know, it's like a fifteen percent shift in 248 00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:12.519 that and it's just taking that next step further. So the way we approach 249 00:17:12.680 --> 00:17:17.390 the work is really, you know, I'm a very user centator, human 250 00:17:17.470 --> 00:17:21.069 centered approach to the work that we do, and really that's all rooted in 251 00:17:21.230 --> 00:17:25.710 research and I will say this. There are lots of different ways to execute 252 00:17:25.750 --> 00:17:29.430 research. It doesn't have to be huge and complex and I've worked with a 253 00:17:29.509 --> 00:17:33.819 lot of different folks across all of our campuses and sometimes you have lots of 254 00:17:33.900 --> 00:17:37.380 resources and lots of time and you can really roll up your sleeve and, 255 00:17:37.819 --> 00:17:41.339 you know, make that pivot table and do twenty hours of qualitative research. 256 00:17:41.380 --> 00:17:45.009 Yeah, that's not always the norm. Not totally understand there that there's lots 257 00:17:45.009 --> 00:17:51.210 of different ways to connect with your audience to really understand their desires, their 258 00:17:51.289 --> 00:17:53.730 motivations and their obstacles. It could be social listening tools, it could be 259 00:17:53.769 --> 00:17:59.279 doing a poll on your instagram feed. It could there's lots of different ways 260 00:17:59.319 --> 00:18:03.480 to do that. It could be using existing research or surveys that you already 261 00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:06.759 have to mind for insights in a different way. There's lots of different ways 262 00:18:06.759 --> 00:18:11.440 that you can connect with your audience to really understand what is motivating them. 263 00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:14.670 And that's and that's really at the core of it. And so, you 264 00:18:14.789 --> 00:18:17.589 know, the other piece of it is also you know, we talked about 265 00:18:17.589 --> 00:18:19.910 everyone has a problem to solve. Well, a lot of times we solve 266 00:18:19.990 --> 00:18:25.309 it through our own lens and we don't always solve the right problem. Really 267 00:18:25.430 --> 00:18:30.299 understanding the problem space is super important to be able to say, you know, 268 00:18:30.380 --> 00:18:33.740 I thought the issue was x, but after doing some listening and doing 269 00:18:33.779 --> 00:18:37.980 some surveying or, you know, reviewing the quant research we already have. 270 00:18:37.059 --> 00:18:41.650 are looking at our enrollment numbers, I'm actually seeing the problem is why it's 271 00:18:41.690 --> 00:18:44.250 over, it's down here. It's not a funnel, it's down funnel or 272 00:18:44.250 --> 00:18:48.289 vice versa, and so that's really important to make sure that as we go 273 00:18:48.529 --> 00:18:52.049 forward, we are kind of doing a you know, zooming out to get 274 00:18:52.089 --> 00:18:56.640 that thirty, fiftyzero foot view to ensure that we are solving for the right 275 00:18:56.839 --> 00:19:00.279 things in the right way. And so, you know, when you're going 276 00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:03.440 back to those messaging nor stars, it's all well and good for us to 277 00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:08.680 want to communicate about student success and helping Indiana thrive in our research, but 278 00:19:08.759 --> 00:19:12.549 if it's not relevant to the audience we're talking to, they're not going to 279 00:19:12.630 --> 00:19:17.430 listen. It doesn't matter. That's exactly right. So thinking about you know, 280 00:19:17.470 --> 00:19:19.150 what are those features, the features that are going to be that are 281 00:19:19.150 --> 00:19:22.789 going to resonate thing bout student success? What's going to resonate for someone who 282 00:19:23.029 --> 00:19:26.980 is a junior and high school and really trying to think where do I want 283 00:19:27.019 --> 00:19:30.700 to go on my college visits next? It's going to be different than their 284 00:19:30.779 --> 00:19:33.819 parents. So, you know, we have the same things we want to 285 00:19:33.819 --> 00:19:37.900 communicate, but how we put that forward to folks and how we position that 286 00:19:37.299 --> 00:19:41.930 should be different based on the user. And so when I say, you 287 00:19:41.009 --> 00:19:45.809 know, User Center design or Human Center design, that that's really what we're 288 00:19:45.809 --> 00:19:49.289 thinking about. How do we put forward and position what we want to communicate 289 00:19:49.450 --> 00:19:53.759 in a way that one meets our business goals, meets our needs and communicates 290 00:19:53.839 --> 00:19:57.559 what we want folks to understand, but does so in a way that is 291 00:19:57.640 --> 00:20:03.440 really relevant and resonates with them as if it's if it's not relevant, it 292 00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:07.190 doesn't matter what we have to say. Eleanor, you've mentioned human centered leadership 293 00:20:07.190 --> 00:20:12.349 a couple of times and would like if you could explain what that means and 294 00:20:12.549 --> 00:20:18.869 then how you may utilize that either as a vehicle or a foundation for your 295 00:20:18.910 --> 00:20:22.059 leadership or decisions that are made in the organization. Yeah, yeah, I'm 296 00:20:22.099 --> 00:20:23.700 going to. I'm going to be honest with you, guys. I love 297 00:20:23.700 --> 00:20:29.420 a good chart. I'm a visual I'm a visual person, and I know 298 00:20:29.500 --> 00:20:32.740 we're on a podcast or no one can see the massive amount of hand movements 299 00:20:32.779 --> 00:20:37.410 I'm doing. But but they're moving everyone. She's using her hands. I 300 00:20:37.529 --> 00:20:41.769 am like, I'm like directing traffic over here. So I always think of 301 00:20:41.849 --> 00:20:45.009 it, you know, imagine a ven diagram and think about it. You 302 00:20:45.089 --> 00:20:47.890 know, when I think of human you know, human centered leadership, I 303 00:20:48.089 --> 00:20:52.440 think about, you know, really understanding what is it that the people involved 304 00:20:52.039 --> 00:20:56.559 want? What do they want to accomplish? What are they trying to solve 305 00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:00.000 for one of their motivations? And then we have the organizational need. Over 306 00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:03.549 here, we want to do x, Y or Z, whether that's communicate 307 00:21:03.589 --> 00:21:08.069 about something, drive revenue in a certain area. We want to is organize 308 00:21:08.069 --> 00:21:11.710 our teams in a certain way. We're trying to solve for the organizational needs, 309 00:21:12.029 --> 00:21:15.430 but also keep in mind what our end like, what the what the 310 00:21:15.509 --> 00:21:18.779 people involved, you know, what they need as well. And then and 311 00:21:18.859 --> 00:21:22.740 then the last piece that I always think about in that last circle in the 312 00:21:22.779 --> 00:21:27.059 ven diagram is the feasibility. Can we do these things right? Because everything 313 00:21:27.099 --> 00:21:30.539 that are the end user, the people want, may not always meet the 314 00:21:30.619 --> 00:21:34.289 organizational need. And so, you know, adding in that layer and we 315 00:21:34.450 --> 00:21:38.049 do these things like maybe everybody wants to work, you know, three day 316 00:21:38.089 --> 00:21:41.849 weeks. But yeah, well, we can't get our work done in that 317 00:21:41.930 --> 00:21:44.289 amount of time. So, like, even though those things come together, 318 00:21:44.410 --> 00:21:48.119 it doesn't mean that they're actually feasible. And that's a terrible example. So 319 00:21:48.200 --> 00:21:51.960 I always really try to focus on, you know, that magical intersection of 320 00:21:52.039 --> 00:21:56.880 those three things really being some of the to help lead decisionmaking or help lead 321 00:21:56.240 --> 00:22:00.640 as we're you know, if we're reshaping a team, really thinking about, 322 00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:03.750 okay, well, it's going to serve our people, because when our people 323 00:22:03.789 --> 00:22:07.630 are well served they do their best work. And what is going to serve 324 00:22:07.710 --> 00:22:11.670 the organization? Because if we're not serving the organization, it doesn't come. 325 00:22:11.789 --> 00:22:14.109 We have to keep the lights on, we have to keep the doors open. 326 00:22:14.150 --> 00:22:17.619 And the other pieces do we have? Do we have the bandwidth, 327 00:22:18.099 --> 00:22:21.500 the skill sets? Do we have the revenue? Do we have the dollars 328 00:22:21.619 --> 00:22:23.900 to do these things as well? And so finding that beautiful, magical, 329 00:22:25.059 --> 00:22:27.980 not always easy, intersection of those three things is is a lot of the 330 00:22:29.019 --> 00:22:32.170 ways that I try to approach, you know, my leadership decisions, both 331 00:22:32.210 --> 00:22:34.809 from an organizational standpoint and from a marketing standpoint as well. You can you 332 00:22:34.890 --> 00:22:38.089 can add that you can create, that those those thinking of those circles. 333 00:22:38.130 --> 00:22:41.089 You can add that Lens to just about anything you're working on. You know, 334 00:22:41.490 --> 00:22:45.119 is it desirable? Do People want it? Is it feasible? Can 335 00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:48.359 we do it and is it viable? Does it meet our business needs? 336 00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:49.799 And when you start, you know, looking at back through that Lens where 337 00:22:49.839 --> 00:22:53.319 you have to take all three boxes, which is one hard to do, 338 00:22:55.319 --> 00:23:00.029 but to it means that you're answering those three essential items or elements to answer 339 00:23:00.069 --> 00:23:03.549 any decision that you're trying to make. I think that's great because I think 340 00:23:03.549 --> 00:23:06.390 so many times as marketers, whether it's in high at or other places, 341 00:23:06.910 --> 00:23:10.150 we kind of get stuck in this mode of well, we have this, 342 00:23:10.269 --> 00:23:11.549 so we want to make sure that everybody knows about it and we want to 343 00:23:11.549 --> 00:23:15.740 sell this, but if it's not really what people are looking for, then 344 00:23:15.779 --> 00:23:18.859 it doesn't often work, and that's that's that's just a small idea, but 345 00:23:18.140 --> 00:23:22.740 I really like that. Then diagram overlap idea of what you're talking about. 346 00:23:22.779 --> 00:23:26.730 I think it's so true. So as we reach the end of the conversation 347 00:23:27.289 --> 00:23:33.490 with there would be a last thought or maybe a quick hit piece of advice 348 00:23:33.609 --> 00:23:37.170 that you could give other marketers that could be listening and that they could glean 349 00:23:37.289 --> 00:23:41.240 from the wisdom that you have. Well, I would say just always, 350 00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:48.000 always keep listening and learning, and I know that is not to be not 351 00:23:48.119 --> 00:23:51.599 to be rude, doctive, but always keep listening and learning. You know, 352 00:23:51.799 --> 00:23:56.029 when thinking about how do we best connect with our audiences, we have 353 00:23:56.150 --> 00:24:02.190 to put them ourselves in their shoes, and so, whether that's reading all 354 00:24:02.269 --> 00:24:06.430 of the comments that come in through social media or actually doing, you know, 355 00:24:06.470 --> 00:24:11.180 qualitative or quantitative research, to listen and learn and whatever, wherever you 356 00:24:11.420 --> 00:24:15.180 fall in that range of complexity, you know, and that range of sophistication 357 00:24:15.380 --> 00:24:21.420 when it comes to research, just always keep listening and and be responsive to 358 00:24:21.539 --> 00:24:25.250 that and shape your decisions around what you're learning is as you're listening to your 359 00:24:25.289 --> 00:24:29.730 end user. Thank you. Well. Nor well said. If someone would 360 00:24:29.730 --> 00:24:33.650 like to reach you and or contact you for any reason, what would be 361 00:24:33.690 --> 00:24:36.369 the best way for them to do so? You know I'm on Linkedin. 362 00:24:36.650 --> 00:24:41.599 Linkedin would be the best way. Perfect, and that's Eleanor Burman. Eleanor 363 00:24:41.720 --> 00:24:48.640 Burman Net. That's small school called Indiana University. Perhaps we've heard. Well, 364 00:24:49.160 --> 00:24:52.789 I'm Ohio State Guy, but I will say on your behalf. Go 365 00:24:52.950 --> 00:24:59.390 whosers, who's that's right, he'll be read. I won't go that far, 366 00:24:59.950 --> 00:25:03.069 bar. Do you Bart? Do you have any final thought that you 367 00:25:03.150 --> 00:25:06.589 could offer? Yeah, I just wanted to point out a few things at 368 00:25:06.630 --> 00:25:10.220 Eleanor said that I thought is just good takeaways. That that I would make 369 00:25:10.259 --> 00:25:11.700 sure that if you didn't hear it, maybe go back and listen to it. 370 00:25:11.779 --> 00:25:15.819 But the idea that everybody that we're dealing with is trying to solve a 371 00:25:15.900 --> 00:25:18.500 problem. You know, whether that's your internal clients, you know, with 372 00:25:18.700 --> 00:25:22.529 with a centralized, decentralized marketing team like I you has, where you're going 373 00:25:22.569 --> 00:25:25.369 to be talking to the deans the college, is a different places. They're 374 00:25:25.369 --> 00:25:26.809 trying to solve a problem. So trying to keep that in mind, but 375 00:25:26.890 --> 00:25:30.769 also keep in mind that you're your end consumers, if you will, whether 376 00:25:30.890 --> 00:25:34.799 those are perspective students, whether their perspective parents, they're trying to solve a 377 00:25:34.839 --> 00:25:38.759 problem as well. They have questions that need answered and as marketers, it's 378 00:25:38.799 --> 00:25:42.799 our it's our responsibility to do that in a way that helps them, first 379 00:25:42.839 --> 00:25:45.720 and foremost, solve their problem. I also really like the fact that she 380 00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:49.950 talked about how I you really utilize as the messaging North Star and the idea 381 00:25:49.950 --> 00:25:53.150 of really trying to kind of focus in on what are those benefits that we're 382 00:25:53.190 --> 00:25:56.470 trying to share? What is that North Star that we can all together as 383 00:25:56.470 --> 00:26:00.309 a community, point to and work toward? I think that's going to that's 384 00:26:00.349 --> 00:26:04.099 going to really a lot of ways. In the marketing department sometimes we feel 385 00:26:04.099 --> 00:26:07.660 like we have so many different headaches because nobody gets us and nobody understands us 386 00:26:07.660 --> 00:26:11.420 and those types of things. But if we can make sure that we're communicating 387 00:26:11.460 --> 00:26:15.500 that North Star very clearly, succinctly and articulated over and over and over again 388 00:26:15.500 --> 00:26:18.329 internally, that's going to help you with with a lot of the work that 389 00:26:18.369 --> 00:26:21.970 you're trying to do. And then, finally, I really appreciated her last 390 00:26:22.009 --> 00:26:26.049 comment there about the listening and learning and obviously if you're if you're listening right 391 00:26:26.089 --> 00:26:30.609 now, you are learning and that you have that desire and that's I congratulate 392 00:26:30.650 --> 00:26:33.920 you on that. I would encourage you to also just continue to be a 393 00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:38.599 lifelong learner and go and find as many, many different types of aspects you 394 00:26:38.720 --> 00:26:41.000 can to do that. So, eleanor, thank you so much for being 395 00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:44.759 on the show today my pleasure. Thank you for having me. Thank you 396 00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:48.150 for that thought, Bart and thank you both for a wonderful conversation. The 397 00:26:48.190 --> 00:26:56.430 hired marketer podcast is sponsored by Taylor solutions and education, marketing strategy and branding 398 00:26:56.509 --> 00:27:03.220 agency and by Think, patented, a marketing execution company combining print, mail 399 00:27:03.819 --> 00:27:08.099 and digital engagement will fullblown outreach programs. Thank you for listening to the hired 400 00:27:08.140 --> 00:27:15.890 marketer podcast. You've been listening to the Higher Ed Marketer. To ensure that 401 00:27:15.049 --> 00:27:19.049 you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. 402 00:27:19.930 --> 00:27:23.170 If you're listening with apple PODCASTS, we'd love for you to leave a 403 00:27:23.210 --> 00:27:26.730 quick rating of the show. 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