Making the Case for a Liberal Arts Education

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:06.240 The High Red Marketing podcast is sponsored by the ZEMI APP enabling colleges and universities 2 00:00:06.480 --> 00:00:15.160 to engage interested students before they even apply. You're listening to the Higher Ed 3 00:00:15.240 --> 00:00:20.480 Marketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals in higher education. This show will 4 00:00:20.519 --> 00:00:25.399 tackle all sorts of questions related to student recruitment, donor relations, marketing trends, 5 00:00:25.399 --> 00:00:30.160 new technologies and so much more. If you're looking for conversations centered around 6 00:00:30.199 --> 00:00:34.359 where the industry is going, this podcast is for you. Let's get into 7 00:00:34.359 --> 00:00:46.719 the show. I'm here with Bart Taylor and today we talked to Dr Lake 8 00:00:46.880 --> 00:00:53.840 Lambert from Hanover College, and Dr Lambert makes an excellent case for a liberal 9 00:00:53.920 --> 00:01:00.759 arts education and I think he wouldn't mind if other liberal art educators and marketers 10 00:01:00.280 --> 00:01:06.840 took some of the suggestions that we discuss and rise all boats. What say 11 00:01:06.879 --> 00:01:08.719 you, Bart? I agree with that. I think that Dr Lambert does 12 00:01:08.719 --> 00:01:15.680 a great job of kind of outlining the way that they market the liberal arts 13 00:01:15.760 --> 00:01:19.599 at Hanover College and I think that he's very Um, very clear on that 14 00:01:19.719 --> 00:01:25.200 with with just being able to articulate that well and give some examples of of 15 00:01:25.239 --> 00:01:30.719 how to combine the statistics and the stories with everything. I think it reminds 16 00:01:30.719 --> 00:01:33.599 me a lot of the episode that we had with Scott Feller from wabash college 17 00:01:34.400 --> 00:01:37.879 his passion about the liberal arts as well, and I know that a lot 18 00:01:37.920 --> 00:01:40.760 of schools that are listening to the podcast, I mean you might be a 19 00:01:40.799 --> 00:01:44.159 smaller private and liberal arts are a big part of your DNA, and so 20 00:01:44.200 --> 00:01:47.799 I think that there's a lot of really good practical advice in this episode for 21 00:01:47.879 --> 00:01:52.920 you on how to market that. Here's our conversation with Dr Lake Lambert. 22 00:01:55.159 --> 00:01:57.640 Dr Lambert, before we get into the meat of our conversation, I'd like 23 00:01:57.719 --> 00:02:01.879 to know if you could share with our listeners. Is there anything interesting your 24 00:02:02.319 --> 00:02:08.919 or unique that you've learned recently? Yeah, I was at a meeting with 25 00:02:09.080 --> 00:02:16.360 some other college administrators and heard a really interesting presentation on the validity of the 26 00:02:16.639 --> 00:02:23.520 Bureau of Labor Statistics UH estimates of career growth in certain fields and what their 27 00:02:23.560 --> 00:02:28.360 track record is, which I found very interesting because so many of us in 28 00:02:28.439 --> 00:02:35.080 higher education rely on that data to make decisions about academic programs and career preparation 29 00:02:35.280 --> 00:02:39.439 programs and and I didn't realize how shaky that data really was and has made 30 00:02:39.439 --> 00:02:46.439 me think quite a bit about how much we rely on that data. Thank 31 00:02:46.520 --> 00:02:52.560 you if you would. Please tell everyone about Hanover college and a little bit 32 00:02:52.599 --> 00:02:55.840 about yourself, how long you've been there, et CETERA. Amber College is 33 00:02:55.879 --> 00:03:05.400 a small college located on the Ohio River in southern Indiana. If you we're 34 00:03:05.479 --> 00:03:10.120 traveling by a river, which happened when the college was founded in eighteen we 35 00:03:10.120 --> 00:03:16.120 were located halfway between Louisville, Kentucky and Cincinnati, Ohio, on the Ohio 36 00:03:16.240 --> 00:03:22.039 River, and that's how early students arrived at Hanover, was by riverboat. 37 00:03:22.080 --> 00:03:29.560 Today Hanover is a college of about eleven hundred students. That includes traditional residential 38 00:03:29.639 --> 00:03:38.319 undergraduates, but then also students in our new doctor of physical therapy program and 39 00:03:38.360 --> 00:03:42.120 I know Hanover is really known, or I shouldn't say really known, but 40 00:03:42.280 --> 00:03:46.039 one of the things that's known for it's this beautiful campus. It is. 41 00:03:46.319 --> 00:03:51.719 Our campus is six fifty acre sitting on a bluff over the Ohio River. 42 00:03:52.439 --> 00:03:57.759 We occupy about a hundred hundred twenty five of those acres. The rest of 43 00:03:57.800 --> 00:04:02.199 it is lush green space. Were over five miles of hiking trails on our 44 00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:08.879 campus and it's just a beautiful place to live and to study, and it's 45 00:04:08.879 --> 00:04:13.840 a great place if you love the outdoors and and you see that is an 46 00:04:13.879 --> 00:04:16.920 important part of your life, in a great way for you to relax and 47 00:04:16.959 --> 00:04:26.439 study too. Would really recommend listeners to research and to go out and look 48 00:04:26.480 --> 00:04:32.079 at some of the images on your website or by googling Hanover Bart and I 49 00:04:32.120 --> 00:04:35.600 would I would even suggest to a little plug for the college tour, because 50 00:04:35.639 --> 00:04:40.399 I know that you guys are are gonna are featured on the college tour and, 51 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:42.800 uh, you know, one of our other guests on the episode, 52 00:04:42.839 --> 00:04:46.360 Alex Boylan, was on campus with you and uh, I'm sure that they 53 00:04:46.360 --> 00:04:48.120 got some gorgeous shots. I saw one of the trailers the other day, 54 00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:51.279 and so that would be another way for everybody to kind of start to Um 55 00:04:53.000 --> 00:04:55.959 to really experience that. So I wanted to kind of get started on the 56 00:04:55.959 --> 00:04:58.279 first question here, Dr Lambert, and it kind of goes a little bit 57 00:04:58.319 --> 00:05:02.279 with what you started to say about what you learned about the Bureau of Labor 58 00:05:02.279 --> 00:05:08.800 Statistics and the idea that so much of of of career readiness and and and 59 00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:14.480 so many times colleges are so focused on which be focused on outcomes, but 60 00:05:14.519 --> 00:05:18.079 sometimes we kind of lose sight of we are preparing students for careers that don't 61 00:05:18.120 --> 00:05:21.560 even exist yet sometimes. And one of the things that I know in my 62 00:05:21.639 --> 00:05:26.879 own background, you know, I went to a small private college that focused 63 00:05:26.879 --> 00:05:30.480 a lot on the liberal arts, much like Hanover, that there's a reality 64 00:05:30.519 --> 00:05:34.879 that the liberal arts has really evolved and it's it's becoming kind of it's coming 65 00:05:34.959 --> 00:05:39.519 back into a very important part of education. Tell us a little bit about 66 00:05:39.519 --> 00:05:42.279 that in your thoughts on that. Certainly, the liberal arts has evolved ever 67 00:05:42.360 --> 00:05:46.120 since their origins in in the Greek and Roman times to now, and even 68 00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:51.920 in an American higher education that's evolved considerably too. When Hanover was founded, 69 00:05:51.920 --> 00:05:58.160 the Liberal Arts Mint that you read great books in Latin and in Greek and 70 00:05:58.240 --> 00:06:01.519 you read the Bible and he rue and the ancient languages, and that's what 71 00:06:01.560 --> 00:06:06.399 an education was and that's really what an education looked like a Hanover for almost 72 00:06:06.439 --> 00:06:13.040 a hundred years from its founding. But then as times changed and we began 73 00:06:13.199 --> 00:06:17.199 to see the value of teaching about the sciences, teaching in English, uh, 74 00:06:17.240 --> 00:06:21.360 and the repertoire of what we consider to be an important part of the 75 00:06:21.399 --> 00:06:27.399 liberal arts has changed. That's Pretty Fascinating, Dr Lambert, and I really 76 00:06:27.920 --> 00:06:31.319 really like the history of of how you just outlaid the liberal arts education. 77 00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:35.439 But I think kind of getting back to kind of the the idea of how 78 00:06:35.480 --> 00:06:39.920 critical it is going into the twenty one century, or now that we're in 79 00:06:39.920 --> 00:06:43.360 the century and we're not going into it, but how critical it is for 80 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:46.279 students to be able to have more of that well rounded education. Um, 81 00:06:46.480 --> 00:06:49.439 why don't we talk a bit about that in the application of what that means 82 00:06:49.560 --> 00:06:56.040 for career readiness? Well, in Hannabal we really like to talk about combining 83 00:06:56.680 --> 00:07:00.160 a liberal arts education with career readiness, that it's not a choice that a 84 00:07:00.199 --> 00:07:05.720 student has to make, but instead they should see it as different parts of 85 00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:13.519 the same path, a question of breath and depth, of what I also 86 00:07:13.639 --> 00:07:18.480 describe as long term thinking and short term thinking, or an immediate impact in 87 00:07:18.519 --> 00:07:23.279 the short term when a student graduates. Yes, absolutely, you need to 88 00:07:23.279 --> 00:07:27.959 be career ready, but to be able to continue to adjust and change as 89 00:07:28.040 --> 00:07:31.920 the world arounds you changes, you need the long term benefits that the liberal 90 00:07:32.040 --> 00:07:38.279 arts curriculum provides, because that was going to develop those great critical thinking skills, 91 00:07:38.319 --> 00:07:42.920 the communication skills and expose you to a variety of subject areas that you're 92 00:07:42.920 --> 00:07:45.480 going to be able to turn to and build on for the rest of your 93 00:07:45.480 --> 00:07:47.279 life. That's great. So I think that kind of what I'm hearing you 94 00:07:47.319 --> 00:07:50.839 say is that you know it's not either or. I mean I think sometimes 95 00:07:50.879 --> 00:07:55.079 people have always thought in the past, at least. You know, thirty 96 00:07:55.120 --> 00:07:57.800 five years ago, forty years ago, when when I went to school, 97 00:07:58.160 --> 00:07:59.920 it was kind of like, well, are you going to go this path 98 00:08:00.160 --> 00:08:03.399 or you're gonna go this path? And I think that even though I went 99 00:08:03.480 --> 00:08:05.879 to one path, it felt like it was the liberal arts, felt a 100 00:08:05.879 --> 00:08:09.879 little bit more like it was bolted on rather than what I'm hearing you describe 101 00:08:09.879 --> 00:08:13.480 as integrated at at Hanover College, and so I think that's I think that 102 00:08:13.680 --> 00:08:16.920 even makes it more relevant. Is that what you're finding with your students? 103 00:08:16.879 --> 00:08:22.120 I think it's about relevancy and and it's also about the reality of how the 104 00:08:22.240 --> 00:08:26.279 world works. Uh. An employer today wants to know that you can make 105 00:08:26.279 --> 00:08:30.759 an immediate impact when you come into their organization. They want to know that 106 00:08:30.879 --> 00:08:33.039 you have a certain set of skills in ways that you can add value when 107 00:08:33.080 --> 00:08:37.639 you arrive. But then also too, you need to know that over the 108 00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:43.200 course of a career in a lifetime that you can adapt to developing into new 109 00:08:43.320 --> 00:08:46.639 careers that don't even exist now. So both of those are essential. And 110 00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:50.600 the idea that you have to choose, I would say that that type of 111 00:08:50.720 --> 00:08:56.639 dualistic thinking is exactly what a liberal arts education always challenges. that. It's 112 00:08:56.679 --> 00:09:01.720 not about you just don't choose either or you always have to think critically about 113 00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:05.120 how it's it can be both and I love that and I and I remember 114 00:09:05.200 --> 00:09:09.159 we had another guest on the episodes on the High Ed Marketer Podcast, Mark 115 00:09:09.240 --> 00:09:13.159 mccrendall. He's one of the leading researchers and and uh, actually the person 116 00:09:13.240 --> 00:09:18.240 who coined the term generation Alpha, which is the next Alpha that's coming. 117 00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:22.360 He was on the podcast number of episodes again and he talked about the idea 118 00:09:22.440 --> 00:09:24.639 that it's being predicted, based on the research that he and his firm are 119 00:09:24.679 --> 00:09:28.840 doing, that generation Alpha students and for everybody who doesn't know, that is 120 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:33.440 the generation after what we know as generation Z. and so those kids right 121 00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:37.399 now are seventh eighth grade, like twelve years old. They will be, 122 00:09:37.879 --> 00:09:39.519 you know, they'll be looking at colleges here in the next two or three 123 00:09:39.559 --> 00:09:43.879 years. So we're gonna make a quick pivot from generation Z to talking a 124 00:09:43.879 --> 00:09:46.919 lot about generation Alpha. But in Mark's research he said that, you know, 125 00:09:48.200 --> 00:09:52.080 it's predicted that those kids will have ten to twelve career changes throughout their 126 00:09:52.120 --> 00:09:54.960 lifetime. Now, certainly they will have longer lives than we do, but 127 00:09:56.120 --> 00:09:58.720 the idea that you know, I remember my dad had one career Um, 128 00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:03.679 you know, and and you know a lot of the boomers have have experienced 129 00:10:03.720 --> 00:10:05.320 that. But when now we're getting ready to go into an Alpha that's going 130 00:10:05.360 --> 00:10:09.519 to have ten to twelve career changes, or at least changes in their job. 131 00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:13.000 So that's, you know, all the more reason to me, it 132 00:10:13.080 --> 00:10:16.399 seems like for the for the basis of a liberal arts education. I agree 133 00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:22.720 completely. It's it's only the world is only accelerating, changes only accelerating and 134 00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:26.240 we have to be ready for that. I think the challenge if you're a 135 00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:31.559 seventeen year old is understanding what long term thinking means versus short term thinking. 136 00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:37.919 I sometimes say that an eighteen year old sooner rise at Hanover College a year 137 00:10:37.080 --> 00:10:41.960 is long term. But uh, and so trying to help understand ancer to 138 00:10:41.039 --> 00:10:46.320 what the differences between long term and short term is uh, it is a 139 00:10:46.440 --> 00:10:50.559 relative and perhaps generational thing too. So we're always trying to educate not only 140 00:10:50.600 --> 00:10:54.679 our students, but then also to educating their families and others who are engaged 141 00:10:54.759 --> 00:10:58.639 in the decision making, about about choosing a college, paying for college, 142 00:10:58.799 --> 00:11:03.919 All all those all those folks are involved in that decision and they need to 143 00:11:03.519 --> 00:11:07.600 think carefully about the help those factors as well. Yeah, what I'm hearing 144 00:11:07.639 --> 00:11:11.440 you say is that idea of, you know, looking at life focused rather 145 00:11:11.519 --> 00:11:13.879 than year to year. Um, that's where, at least for me, 146 00:11:15.000 --> 00:11:18.639 I know with my liberal arts education, you know I can I can manage 147 00:11:18.679 --> 00:11:22.279 people better, I can understand things that are going on in the world better. 148 00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:26.080 You know, having access and have read some of those those great books 149 00:11:26.159 --> 00:11:31.440 and and having a little bit more well rounded. I can even tell now, 150 00:11:31.759 --> 00:11:35.120 you know, thirty years out of my college education, how big a 151 00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:37.960 difference that makes even in my day to day you know what? What I 152 00:11:37.080 --> 00:11:43.039 learned as a technique thirty years ago, Poto graphic design major, and so 153 00:11:43.559 --> 00:11:46.480 the way that we did a technique back then has changed drastically with the computer 154 00:11:46.600 --> 00:11:52.440 age. But what I learned in the way that I thought critically hasn't changed 155 00:11:52.480 --> 00:11:56.279 and I used that more every day. Critical thinking and communication are timeless. 156 00:11:56.840 --> 00:12:03.200 The things that you communicate about and the things that that you think about may 157 00:12:03.320 --> 00:12:07.360 change, but developing those school skills are are essential. And then I'll add 158 00:12:07.399 --> 00:12:13.440 to that then the reality that for a lot of folks as they as they 159 00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:16.639 move up the ladder from a career perspective, one of the key opportunities that 160 00:12:16.759 --> 00:12:20.039 they have to move up and and to make more money for that matter, 161 00:12:20.519 --> 00:12:26.799 is to lead and manage people and those types of skills that you develop in 162 00:12:26.799 --> 00:12:31.120 a little arts education, empathy, Um understanding of others, uh, the 163 00:12:31.240 --> 00:12:39.679 ability to navigate difference, include from different cultures, two different ideas and communicating, 164 00:12:39.879 --> 00:12:45.039 those are all key to being a successful leader too, and that's that's 165 00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:50.480 only going to make someone's career better long term. That's great. I can't 166 00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:54.200 agree more. We talk a lot about it on the show. 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Well, 183 00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:18.159 I think that if you don't address that, then then you will have missed 184 00:14:18.200 --> 00:14:22.200 your audience, and so you have to come out strong and and and make 185 00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:26.799 the case, and as we do it Hanover, that you're gonna be ready 186 00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:33.519 for work or ready for what's next immediately after after handover college. Maybe that's 187 00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:37.679 advanced education, but maybe that's a job, and we're going to have all 188 00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:41.679 of that for you. But it doesn't stop there. It has to be 189 00:14:41.879 --> 00:14:45.360 much more and it has to be not only this first job and it has 190 00:14:45.399 --> 00:14:48.240 to be that job beyond. So I don't think that you can shy away 191 00:14:48.559 --> 00:14:54.080 from answering that immediate concern. And and there's good reasons for families to have 192 00:14:54.360 --> 00:14:58.279 that immediate concern and for students. Some of that has to do simply with 193 00:14:58.399 --> 00:15:03.240 the cost to higher education. Some of that has to do, I think 194 00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:05.360 we have to be very honest, it has to do with debt and wanting 195 00:15:05.440 --> 00:15:09.799 to know sort of how college debt and career go together. And so unless 196 00:15:09.879 --> 00:15:13.679 we can answer to that question, then I think that we will lose students 197 00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:18.200 and then higher and then liberal arts education will be what it was often accused 198 00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:22.360 of being and only for the elite. And Uh, and that's not what 199 00:15:22.519 --> 00:15:24.480 it is. So so um. So it, how always has to be 200 00:15:24.559 --> 00:15:30.320 this both in but I don't mind leading with career readiness. Now sometimes I 201 00:15:30.360 --> 00:15:33.840 will tell you that my liberal arts faculty aren't happy with that conversation that I'm 202 00:15:33.919 --> 00:15:37.639 that I'm willing to lead and talk about career readiness, but I'm always having 203 00:15:37.759 --> 00:15:43.559 the conversation with them that Um that wanting to make a living and to support 204 00:15:43.600 --> 00:15:48.840 yourself in your family. There's nothing dishonorable in that. It's there's nothing wrong 205 00:15:48.919 --> 00:15:52.000 with that, but on the other hand we have to tell our students that 206 00:15:52.559 --> 00:15:58.159 that the only purpose in life is not to make a living. There's much 207 00:15:58.279 --> 00:16:03.639 more to life than a job up and and money. So those are always 208 00:16:03.679 --> 00:16:07.080 inn the cross points. Yeah, I think that's so good and I know 209 00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:10.000 that when we had Peter Ashley, you know, one of the one of 210 00:16:10.039 --> 00:16:14.159 the members, they're on your team at Hanover, on the podcast last year 211 00:16:14.639 --> 00:16:15.480 and I know one of the things that he talked about was, you know, 212 00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:18.960 the way that you guys kind of manage that tension of being able to 213 00:16:19.480 --> 00:16:23.039 tell the stories and be able to utilize, you know, video and and 214 00:16:23.240 --> 00:16:27.159 very creative means of being able to tell those stories, but also, you 215 00:16:27.200 --> 00:16:30.240 know, recognize that some of those stories are going to include the outcomes the 216 00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:34.879 career readiness, some of them are gonna include the value of what a you 217 00:16:34.919 --> 00:16:40.519 know, what a private education and the value that is inherently there, uh, 218 00:16:40.840 --> 00:16:44.759 that sometimes we get lost in, you know, sticker price and and 219 00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:48.480 and all kinds of things, that we really have to push that value statement 220 00:16:48.559 --> 00:16:52.240 and those those value propositions and then sometimes really kind of being able to clearly 221 00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:56.000 articulate the distinctives. And I know Peter, you know, articulated that well 222 00:16:56.039 --> 00:17:00.759 and talked a lot about what you all are doing there. But I guess 223 00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:03.000 what I'm hearing you saying is that sometimes we've got to yoke those statistics, 224 00:17:03.119 --> 00:17:08.359 those data, that outcomes, pull them together into these stories and then we've 225 00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:14.480 that together to really create the whole marketing picture rather than just doing it either 226 00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:18.200 or, which gets back to you know, what the liberal arts is about 227 00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:22.279 is kind of looking at the holistic point of everything and and so maybe you 228 00:17:22.279 --> 00:17:23.880 can kind of speak to that a little bit about just even how you, 229 00:17:25.039 --> 00:17:26.960 when you talk to parents, are kind of doing that a little bit of 230 00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:30.799 that dance of you know, Hey, I've got to talk about career readiness 231 00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:33.720 and I've got to talk about the statistics and the data, but I've also 232 00:17:33.759 --> 00:17:37.279 got to pull in these stories of of of our alumni and how they're how 233 00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:41.720 they're living life. Yeah, it's hard to get excited about statistics. It 234 00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:45.799 doesn't matter what the statistic is, and it doesn't matter even if it's the 235 00:17:47.720 --> 00:17:52.000 if it's the statistic that you want Um or that your brain says is really 236 00:17:52.119 --> 00:17:56.960 good. Uh. And it doesn't mean that those statistics don't matter, but 237 00:17:57.240 --> 00:18:03.319 you have to be able to tell a story about a full and complete LFE 238 00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:10.680 that shapes around that statistics, because statistics are snapshots. They're they're singularly focused 239 00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:14.160 on a certain piece and you can, you can put together a lot of 240 00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:18.240 them. But but humans are holistic, and so telling a story really helps 241 00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:23.359 us to see the holistic picture. And UH. And then yoking those statistics 242 00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:29.039 with stories and and uh or video, especially now. I think that's sort 243 00:18:29.079 --> 00:18:32.720 of the way of the future, to be able to tell what that looks 244 00:18:32.759 --> 00:18:34.480 like. Those are those are great things and that's one of the things that 245 00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:38.599 we're really pleased about the college tour being able to do for us, is 246 00:18:38.680 --> 00:18:44.799 to is to make some of the of the outcomes of handover college that we 247 00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:49.279 will list in our on our website come alive and the stories of students and 248 00:18:49.599 --> 00:18:55.359 and the things that they're doing at Hanover and beyond. Yeah, it's kind 249 00:18:55.359 --> 00:19:00.400 of hard to get emotional about statistics, but stories can really stir our oceans 250 00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:03.640 and stir us to actions. So that's a really good point. Earlier in 251 00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:11.440 the conversation you described UH helping generation Z or future students, understand the difference 252 00:19:11.480 --> 00:19:15.759 between a short term play and a long term play, and would like to 253 00:19:15.880 --> 00:19:19.880 ask you to expand upon some of the ways that you get them thinking about 254 00:19:21.079 --> 00:19:25.400 the long term play as you're marketing to them or even when they're on campus. 255 00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:30.759 Well, oftentimes you start only with the student but also with their families 256 00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:36.480 who are visiting with them and and the we recognize, and I think this 257 00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:40.559 is especially true in Gen Z, that that these are family decisions and so 258 00:19:40.680 --> 00:19:44.960 I think talking to the families, often the family, the family and the 259 00:19:45.079 --> 00:19:48.440 parents could have a better sense of that long term vision. But I think 260 00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:56.680 helping students to understand that your academic major isn't your destiny, being able to 261 00:19:56.799 --> 00:20:02.519 tell stories of alumni of the college had majors in certain areas but then ended 262 00:20:02.599 --> 00:20:06.759 up in careers that they that they would never have imagined. We have a 263 00:20:06.839 --> 00:20:11.839 really good statistical dat to that tracks students and we can say what their their 264 00:20:11.920 --> 00:20:18.000 fields of endeavor after Hanover have been from that major and and and they're not. 265 00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:22.759 There's not a perfect alignment. And and anyone who has engaged in little 266 00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:26.160 large education knows that just because you're an English major doesn't mean that your only 267 00:20:26.240 --> 00:20:30.079 option is is to be an English teacher and editor or or or something like 268 00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:36.960 that. It your options are almost enlist and and trying to help folks understand 269 00:20:37.079 --> 00:20:41.759 that so that they again can see and think long term. UH, study 270 00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:45.200 and and be passionate about a certain thing that you that you want to study, 271 00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:48.119 but I don't think that that's going to limit your long term options. 272 00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:52.200 I love that. I love that because I've I mean I've I've got a 273 00:20:52.359 --> 00:20:56.160 you know, I've got, you know, two of my children of are 274 00:20:56.519 --> 00:21:00.440 in college, are already graduated. I've got two in high school and you 275 00:21:00.519 --> 00:21:03.319 know part of it. You know, I've got wanted a at a large 276 00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:06.920 state institution, you know, working, you know, on his engineering degree. 277 00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:08.960 I've got another one that went to a private liberal arts school that, 278 00:21:10.119 --> 00:21:12.559 you know, focused on he graduated with a journalism degree. And I think 279 00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:17.079 exactly what you're saying. There's there's that, there's that benefit that I see 280 00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:21.559 that that added element of the liberal arts that that really kind of add and 281 00:21:21.640 --> 00:21:23.039 I know that you know a lot of the state schools will talk about the 282 00:21:23.119 --> 00:21:27.200 general education elements that they're adding, but there is something a little bit deeper 283 00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:33.039 that when you have the the the room and the academic schedule and the room 284 00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:37.160 for some more of the deeper level liberal arts, UH, without having to 285 00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:41.720 get so focused on some of the tactics, tactics of of you know, 286 00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:45.319 a craft or or a you know, a skill, you've got the room 287 00:21:45.359 --> 00:21:47.720 to do that. So I think that's such a such a valuable thing to 288 00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:51.279 talk about that breadth and depth across the way. Well, I I don't. 289 00:21:51.319 --> 00:21:53.920 I think that's exactly right and uh, and it's something that we do 290 00:21:55.039 --> 00:21:57.319 on a regular basis and and then it's something that we have to hear because 291 00:21:57.480 --> 00:22:03.960 it's not a one time sale. The reality is is that students always have 292 00:22:03.039 --> 00:22:07.440 the opportunity. That's sort of when retention is not just about keeping them, 293 00:22:07.480 --> 00:22:11.839 it's about making the sale again year after year that they find value in staying 294 00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:18.400 and you're always making that case for for why this curriculum is valuable. Dr 295 00:22:18.519 --> 00:22:22.559 Lambert, as we closed the episode, would there be either a final thought 296 00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:26.839 that you would like to offer that we didn't cover, or maybe a piece 297 00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:32.720 of advice that uh people within your role, that you can offer them that 298 00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:38.119 they could implement soon after listening to the podcast. The best marketing is to 299 00:22:38.920 --> 00:22:45.680 connect stories and Statistics and the degree to which we can do that and what 300 00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:52.039 we say in how we communicate the message of obstitution, that's really where the 301 00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:56.599 winds are gonna are are going to be found for institutions in recruiting and in 302 00:22:56.720 --> 00:23:03.000 retention long terms. Thank you, Doctor. For those that would like to 303 00:23:03.079 --> 00:23:07.880 reach out to your contact you after they listen to the episode, what would 304 00:23:07.960 --> 00:23:11.160 be the best way for them to do that? Lambert at Andover Dot eedu. 305 00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:17.400 Thank you, and I'd also like to put in a plug that. 306 00:23:17.880 --> 00:23:22.039 You know, following you on social media is a wonderful follow both you and 307 00:23:22.279 --> 00:23:27.359 Hanover College. So we appreciate you putting out what you do. Bart. 308 00:23:27.720 --> 00:23:30.759 Do you have a final thought you'd like to share before we closed the episode? 309 00:23:32.200 --> 00:23:33.319 Yeah, I just want to highlight a couple of things that Dr Lambert 310 00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:37.079 said that I thought were so, so really good, and I really like 311 00:23:37.240 --> 00:23:40.200 that last element that he talked about with you know, if you have to, 312 00:23:40.519 --> 00:23:42.160 you know, leaving this afternoon and going out and and being able to 313 00:23:42.200 --> 00:23:45.079 start looking at how can I start combining the data in the stories? How 314 00:23:45.160 --> 00:23:49.640 can I start making this data turn it into poll a story of somebody that's 315 00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:53.200 on campus that's actually living out the piece of data that you're trying to communicate 316 00:23:53.680 --> 00:23:56.400 and create emotion around that? I think that's gonna be one of the key 317 00:23:56.480 --> 00:24:00.440 elements. And then I also really liked what what Dr Lambert talked about. 318 00:24:00.519 --> 00:24:03.759 Is that, you know, all of us, when we talk about retention, 319 00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:06.599 sometimes we get so excited about marketing at the beginning, you know, 320 00:24:06.680 --> 00:24:10.720 during the admissions funnel, when they're that senior high school, and then we're 321 00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:12.920 getting them to matriculate as freshman in high school. I loved what Dr Lambert 322 00:24:12.960 --> 00:24:15.519 said about, you know, we have to do the sale year after year 323 00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:18.640 and I think sometimes we miss that as marketers, that we we think, 324 00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:22.000 okay, well, I've done my part, I've got them in the in 325 00:24:22.119 --> 00:24:26.200 the job and now it's student life responsibility, or now it's the professor's responsibility 326 00:24:26.200 --> 00:24:29.920 and faculty to kind of keep them around. Actually it's all of us and 327 00:24:30.359 --> 00:24:33.880 putting in marketing programs and ways to kind of continue to sell them on. 328 00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:37.920 that. I think is so critical and I really appreciate Dr we're kind of 329 00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:40.119 pointing that out. And then, finally, I just want to make sure 330 00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:44.000 that so many schools that are listening to this are smaller schools and they are 331 00:24:44.079 --> 00:24:47.400 going to be Um really trying to think about how do I differentiate myself? 332 00:24:47.480 --> 00:24:49.319 How do I how do I? You know, I'm small, I can't 333 00:24:49.359 --> 00:24:52.640 do this, I don't have budgets, those types of things. I think 334 00:24:52.680 --> 00:24:55.480 a lot of what Dr Lambert has talked about, and especially the smaller schools, 335 00:24:55.519 --> 00:25:00.119 you're probably already doing a lot of liberal arts education. Lean into that. 336 00:25:00.559 --> 00:25:02.640 Use that as one of your distinctives. Use that as a way to 337 00:25:02.839 --> 00:25:07.319 articulate what is different about you than you know, most small privates are competing 338 00:25:07.319 --> 00:25:11.960 against the community colleges and the state schools more than they are competing against the 339 00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:15.880 other schools, and so how can you differentiate yourself and really help people to 340 00:25:15.960 --> 00:25:18.079 see the value in that? So thanks again, Dr Lambert, for being 341 00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:22.640 on the show today. It's been such a blessing and a great pleasure to 342 00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:27.480 have you on. Thank you both. The Higher Ed Marketer podcast is sponsored 343 00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:33.200 by Kaylor solutions and education, marketing and branding agency and by thing patented, 344 00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:40.200 a marketing execution company combining direct mail and unique digital stacks for Higher Ed outreach 345 00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:45.480 success. I'm troy singer on behalf of my co host, Bart Kaylor. 346 00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:52.319 Thank you for listening. You've been listening to the Higher Ed Marketer. To 347 00:25:52.519 --> 00:25:56.279 ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite 348 00:25:56.319 --> 00:26:00.880 podcast player. If you're listening without the PODCASTS, we'd love for you to 349 00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:04.400 leave a quick rating of the show. Simply tap the number of stars you 350 00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:07.279 think the podcast deserves. Until next time,