Fluid Communications Build Better Relationships

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:06.440 The High Red Marketer podcast is sponsored by the ZEMI APP enabling colleges and universities 2 00:00:06.480 --> 00:00:13.400 to engage interested students before they even apply. You were listening to the Higher 3 00:00:13.519 --> 00:00:18.760 Ed Marketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals in higher education. This show 4 00:00:18.760 --> 00:00:23.519 will tackle all sorts of questions related to student recruitment, don'tor relations, marketing 5 00:00:23.519 --> 00:00:27.920 trends, new technologies and so much more. If you are looking for conversations 6 00:00:27.960 --> 00:00:32.399 centered around where the industry is going, this podcast is for you. Let's 7 00:00:32.439 --> 00:00:40.280 get into the show. Welcome to this week's episode of the High Red Marketer 8 00:00:40.399 --> 00:00:44.520 podcast. My name is troy singer and I'm here with my cohost, Bart 9 00:00:44.600 --> 00:00:49.840 Taylor, and today we're speaking with Christian de Grigoryo. He is the director 10 00:00:49.880 --> 00:00:54.880 of international recruitment at Your College of Pennsylvania. I believe we discovered Christian because 11 00:00:54.920 --> 00:00:59.000 of a paper he wrote and the caught the interest of Bart and as we 12 00:00:59.039 --> 00:01:03.240 started communicating with him, it became very apparent that he is someone that could 13 00:01:03.280 --> 00:01:07.599 come on to the podcast and exude a lot of knowledge about his success in 14 00:01:07.640 --> 00:01:12.079 recruiting international students. Yeah, I really, really like Christian. I he's 15 00:01:12.079 --> 00:01:15.560 such a great episode that we're getting ready to talk about. But thing I 16 00:01:15.640 --> 00:01:19.599 really like about Christian as he kind of takes what's kind of a traditional way 17 00:01:19.599 --> 00:01:23.760 of doing recruiting but he adapts it for the audience that he's recruiting too. 18 00:01:23.959 --> 00:01:27.519 And even though he's talking a lot about international students and international recruiting, this 19 00:01:27.560 --> 00:01:32.000 is a great episode just to kind of think about how can I apply non 20 00:01:32.040 --> 00:01:37.359 traditional ways to more of my traditional recruiting aspects, and especially in marketing. 21 00:01:37.400 --> 00:01:40.879 So really take a take a listen to that. He is quite I really 22 00:01:40.920 --> 00:01:44.599 like how he articulate. He has he's quite articulate, as well as the 23 00:01:44.599 --> 00:01:48.840 fact that he does represent a smaller school, a small smaller Liberal Arts College, 24 00:01:48.840 --> 00:01:51.640 and I know a lot of the audience that listens to the hired marketer 25 00:01:51.640 --> 00:01:56.920 comes from those smaller institutions or from specific colleges and larger institutions, and so 26 00:01:57.159 --> 00:02:01.359 there's some really good information on this podcast. Here's our conversation with Christian. 27 00:02:04.879 --> 00:02:09.280 Please help me welcome Christian D Gregory O, Director of international recruitment at Your 28 00:02:09.400 --> 00:02:15.520 College of Pennsylvania, to the Higher Ed Marketer podcast and Christian, we appreciate 29 00:02:15.560 --> 00:02:20.520 you coming on and sharing your expertise around the recruitment of international students. But 30 00:02:20.560 --> 00:02:24.080 before we get into the conversation, if you would let our listeners know a 31 00:02:24.120 --> 00:02:29.520 little bit about your college and your role at York. Sure, it's a 32 00:02:30.199 --> 00:02:32.759 pleasure of being here. Thank you for having me. But an enrollment management 33 00:02:32.840 --> 00:02:38.960 for about twenty two years. Eighteen years was at a small university in northeastern 34 00:02:38.960 --> 00:02:43.400 Pennsylvania and that's where I kind of really fell in love with international admissions. 35 00:02:43.439 --> 00:02:46.280 I was senior director of admissions at the time and I'm you know at that 36 00:02:46.400 --> 00:02:53.319 point and I'm doing budgeting and enrollment planning and communicating with trustees administration and I 37 00:02:53.319 --> 00:03:00.800 had started the international recruitment strategic programs there of how to do recruit then and 38 00:03:00.840 --> 00:03:07.520 at that point we were really focused on government scholarship students, Saudi Arabian students, 39 00:03:07.520 --> 00:03:10.759 but I also had a large contingent of students from northern Iraq, that 40 00:03:10.840 --> 00:03:15.719 Kurdish region. We have about twenty year thirty students there. After those programs 41 00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:21.000 decreased, we decide to kind of switch gears and we're going to focus on 42 00:03:21.199 --> 00:03:24.840 educational agents, or consultant to some people call them. Did that for a 43 00:03:24.840 --> 00:03:30.520 while, rebounded nicely, but I always kind of had this pole of international 44 00:03:30.560 --> 00:03:34.400 admission. They that's where I wanted to spend most of my time and after 45 00:03:34.439 --> 00:03:39.039 a brief stint at another university you work was looking for someone to kind of 46 00:03:39.159 --> 00:03:45.520 broaden their international student population institute some new initiatives, and that's kind of what 47 00:03:45.560 --> 00:03:50.120 I'm doing now, you know, getting that applicant funnel and kind of maneuvering 48 00:03:50.159 --> 00:03:54.479 some things at the top of that funnel, putting in some new application procedures 49 00:03:54.479 --> 00:04:01.360 and policies, hiring educational consultants, doing, you know, conferencing, representing 50 00:04:01.479 --> 00:04:05.840 You York at different high schools and so forth, and just really increasing the 51 00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:13.400 population exploring Marcus that they've not explored before. Thank you and would like to 52 00:04:13.479 --> 00:04:18.040 jump into the conversation around the current state and if there is a difference or 53 00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:25.600 an increase, as we talked about marketing to international students post pandemic. Yeah, 54 00:04:25.639 --> 00:04:28.519 yeah, so we have seen an increase. I've been reading a lot 55 00:04:28.519 --> 00:04:32.439 of articles where people have seen the increases around the United States and in other 56 00:04:32.439 --> 00:04:36.560 parts of the world. I think now, with covid starting to subside, 57 00:04:36.560 --> 00:04:42.240 we hope it permanently does, that we've seen increases so I started it. 58 00:04:42.319 --> 00:04:45.279 You work. It was in March two thousand and twenty, at the beginning 59 00:04:45.279 --> 00:04:49.160 of the pandemic. Our application since then have more than tripled, as well 60 00:04:49.199 --> 00:04:54.120 as the admitted students. That's great. And tell me a little bit about 61 00:04:54.199 --> 00:04:59.240 how you're going about that recruiting. I mean certainly you're not traveling during pandemic, 62 00:04:59.319 --> 00:05:02.759 and so that didn't happen. They're not traveling to Pennsylvania during the pandemic. 63 00:05:02.839 --> 00:05:08.199 So what type of tools are you using for your international recruitment? Well, 64 00:05:08.319 --> 00:05:11.399 we're doing a lot of different things, but what have you've seen a 65 00:05:11.399 --> 00:05:15.560 lot of success on is messaging APPs. Things like what'Sapp and and telegram and 66 00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:21.000 Zolo and some of the other ones we chat have all been extremely helpful to 67 00:05:21.040 --> 00:05:26.759 getting those students and leveraging our strengths. That's great and help our audience understand 68 00:05:26.759 --> 00:05:30.000 that, because I think a lot of our audience probably understand social media APPS. 69 00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:32.000 So we might be familiar with, you know, facebook messenger, or 70 00:05:32.079 --> 00:05:35.240 might be familiar with snap or things like that. But some of what you're 71 00:05:35.240 --> 00:05:40.680 talking about I think a lot more prevalent in in the international scene. I've 72 00:05:40.680 --> 00:05:45.040 heard a lot more mentions of telegram lace lately with the Russian Russian invasion of 73 00:05:45.160 --> 00:05:47.519 Ukraine, and so just tell us tell the audience a little bit about what 74 00:05:47.560 --> 00:05:51.560 these APPs are and how they work. So messaging APPS are a way for 75 00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:56.040 students can to communicate to each other. So I and actually I have a 76 00:05:56.040 --> 00:06:00.759 great story about telegram. The last trip that I had done was in Uzbekistand 77 00:06:00.879 --> 00:06:05.560 was in Central Asia and I'm doing a college fair through education USA, and 78 00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:11.120 if you're not familiar with Education USA, they work predominantly with helping students get 79 00:06:11.160 --> 00:06:14.240 to the United States and study. So we're doing a fair with that and 80 00:06:14.240 --> 00:06:17.920 I'm in the capital of Tash Kent and my table was a little slow at 81 00:06:17.920 --> 00:06:23.959 that point and there's some students over in the corner and they're all standing together 82 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:28.000 but their heads are down looking at their phones and her thumbs are just going 83 00:06:28.199 --> 00:06:32.759 wildly and after a few miss they then approached my table. They're still looking 84 00:06:32.839 --> 00:06:36.079 at their phones, but they're also talking with me and I start hearing the 85 00:06:36.079 --> 00:06:43.279 word telegram. After they left, I grabbed the fair organizers and they said, 86 00:06:43.279 --> 00:06:45.879 you know what's telegram? Tell me a little bit more about that, 87 00:06:46.319 --> 00:06:49.000 and they said, well, telegram is a messaging GAPP and everybody uses it 88 00:06:49.040 --> 00:06:53.279 here, and the light bulb went off in my hands. Okay, I 89 00:06:53.279 --> 00:06:57.879 went back up to my hotel room after the event and I'm downloading, you 90 00:06:57.920 --> 00:07:02.120 know, telegram, making a profile, uploading my profile picture, and then 91 00:07:02.199 --> 00:07:06.800 the next day, new city for location of the fair, and the students 92 00:07:06.839 --> 00:07:10.279 are coming to me and I'm saying, you know, and if you have 93 00:07:10.360 --> 00:07:14.120 any other questions later, I'd be happy to talk to you. Just send 94 00:07:14.120 --> 00:07:19.959 me a message on telegrams you want telegram, like I'm just the savvy international 95 00:07:20.040 --> 00:07:25.519 recruiter. You know, nothing could be further from the truth. But it 96 00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:29.439 was amazing how many message that I got that day and then once I got 97 00:07:29.519 --> 00:07:32.839 back to campus, just from that and then I started to have the students 98 00:07:32.920 --> 00:07:36.759 teach me different features about the APPS. So this is a way for students 99 00:07:36.839 --> 00:07:42.879 to really get in touch with you a little more formal. They can digest 100 00:07:43.000 --> 00:07:48.759 information at their own pace and your own pace. There's desktop versions, so 101 00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:53.519 you can send links, you can do all different thing you could send documents, 102 00:07:53.600 --> 00:07:56.920 do all different kinds of things. So it's better than it's a little 103 00:07:57.000 --> 00:08:01.639 more fluid than email and replicates a conversation a little bit better than me and 104 00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:07.519 I guess it's a little bit more of a international standard than texting. I 105 00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:09.839 mean, texting gets really kind of crazy with fees and things like that, 106 00:08:09.920 --> 00:08:15.120 and I'm sure that international students won't even, you know, answer a text 107 00:08:15.199 --> 00:08:18.240 or won't even give you their phone number. So you could text when we 108 00:08:18.279 --> 00:08:24.680 get a an application, of course the options there. It's intended for domestic 109 00:08:24.680 --> 00:08:28.240 students, Bill say, you know, you can send all being texted and 110 00:08:28.319 --> 00:08:31.360 most of the time being national students, a clean do not make sense. 111 00:08:31.240 --> 00:08:35.840 Very good. That's that's a fascinating way to kind of keep that keep that 112 00:08:35.879 --> 00:08:41.120 going, and I really like I really like how that works out so perfect. 113 00:08:41.159 --> 00:08:45.000 In my correspondence with you, going back and forth, I've seen not 114 00:08:45.039 --> 00:08:48.840 only do you have telegraph as a button that they can utilize in your signature, 115 00:08:48.879 --> 00:08:54.480 but there are a couple of other messaging APPs and I understand depending on 116 00:08:54.559 --> 00:08:58.960 the region or the country that you're communicating with, will determine which APP is 117 00:08:58.000 --> 00:09:01.639 best to use. Can you elaborate? Right, so most of my students 118 00:09:01.639 --> 00:09:05.919 will communicate with me through WHATSAPP. That one is is the catchall. That 119 00:09:05.960 --> 00:09:09.360 one's you know, anybody can use that one, but there's some that are 120 00:09:09.360 --> 00:09:15.679 more regional. So telegram is most popular in Central Asia and some areas in 121 00:09:15.720 --> 00:09:20.600 the Pacific. Pacific Asia line would be most popular in places like Japan, 122 00:09:20.879 --> 00:09:26.720 Taiwan and Thailand. Then there's country specific ones. So if it's Vietnam, 123 00:09:26.799 --> 00:09:31.200 you would be using Zali's. China it's we chat. Everybody you know knows 124 00:09:31.279 --> 00:09:35.480 we chat. That tends to be the more popular one. And then if, 125 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:37.240 maybe, if you're doing some work in South Korea, you're using KK 126 00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:43.879 talk, and there's more more messaging APPs that go out there. So what 127 00:09:43.919 --> 00:09:48.679 you want to do is you want to match your target with the APP that 128 00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:52.960 you're going to be using, knowing that some of these APPs are a little 129 00:09:52.960 --> 00:09:58.480 fluid. So I've gotten messages online where the student was from Hondura's you know, 130 00:09:58.720 --> 00:10:03.440 it happens. So things are there's no boarders, things are things are 131 00:10:03.440 --> 00:10:07.639 a little bit more fluid. And it's not just the students that I'll be 132 00:10:07.639 --> 00:10:13.679 communicating with. I've communicated with parents, I communicate with guidance officers through this, 133 00:10:13.840 --> 00:10:16.919 through these messaging APPS, and again you're doing a bulk of your communication 134 00:10:18.080 --> 00:10:22.039 through these APPs versus email or text. Correct email will still always be there, 135 00:10:22.039 --> 00:10:26.600 but for those really indepth conversations or even some of the short ones, 136 00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:30.960 like hey, I still need you are a letter of recommendation or I need 137 00:10:31.039 --> 00:10:37.159 your English proficiency exam, don't respond, and sometimes they'll even send a document 138 00:10:37.240 --> 00:10:39.840 to us through the APP. That's fascinating. That's great. Christian, if 139 00:10:39.879 --> 00:10:43.720 you would outside of the APPS. What are some of the other ways that 140 00:10:43.879 --> 00:10:52.120 you execute market entry or maybe some things that we traditionally would think online? 141 00:10:52.159 --> 00:10:56.200 How are you doing that? So we're doing a lot with virtual visits. 142 00:10:56.320 --> 00:10:58.759 That could be set up on your own. I've done that where I'm reaching 143 00:10:58.759 --> 00:11:05.720 out to guidance counselors. Sometimes it's through third party. Sometimes third parties will 144 00:11:05.759 --> 00:11:09.759 offer you a package to reach out to schools. You know it. It's 145 00:11:09.960 --> 00:11:13.519 that does come come with a cost. I tend to do which directly reaching 146 00:11:13.559 --> 00:11:20.840 out. I've partner with Education USA and I will do do different presentations them. 147 00:11:20.879 --> 00:11:26.120 Presentations tend to be more neutral topic, so they're not Pro York, 148 00:11:26.519 --> 00:11:28.600 but there are more a little bit about you know, what's it like to 149 00:11:28.600 --> 00:11:33.759 study in the United States? What's classroom culture like? How do you search 150 00:11:33.919 --> 00:11:37.200 for schools? You tell us about the ranking system and how it works. 151 00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:43.159 Even run college essay workshops virtually so that's going very well. The US Department 152 00:11:43.159 --> 00:11:48.559 of Commerce or International Trade Commission has helped out with that. There's been certain 153 00:11:48.639 --> 00:11:54.559 fairs that we've done. There is typical. You know, email you can 154 00:11:54.639 --> 00:12:00.480 do. There's third party lead generators and third party lead generators ten help out 155 00:12:00.519 --> 00:12:03.159 a lot with these messaging APPs when you're reaching out the students, because you 156 00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:07.960 can get their their phone number, as opposed to buying names. You know, 157 00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:11.799 when you when you buy names, think about it. You know, 158 00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:18.279 think of all the schools who are buying names. And then what happens? 159 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:22.440 We get them, we dump them into our crm and then the email on 160 00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:26.960 slop gets. And how do you stand out? And that that's really hard 161 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:31.240 and you do really need to kind of lead with your strengths. When we're 162 00:12:31.279 --> 00:12:33.879 here at York, kind of took inventory of what our strengths are going to 163 00:12:33.919 --> 00:12:41.519 be. Looking around. academically, we have a broad variety of academic programs 164 00:12:41.639 --> 00:12:45.559 that we offer. What makes us a little more unique, and I think 165 00:12:45.559 --> 00:12:48.519 you talked about this in your last podcast, where you leading with your strengths. 166 00:12:48.519 --> 00:12:54.039 We have a fantastic engineering program that's a bad accredited along with computer science. 167 00:12:54.639 --> 00:12:58.879 But our engineering programs have paid coops. So they get three paid co 168 00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:05.759 OPS and we're finally, most of our students about half the time they get 169 00:13:05.840 --> 00:13:11.559 hired from wherever they're doing a collop and they get reduced tuition during their engineering 170 00:13:11.679 --> 00:13:16.000 coops. So their tuition for the semester is about two tho three hundred dollars 171 00:13:16.600 --> 00:13:20.559 and they're getting paid. So so they're coming back to us. When you're 172 00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:24.240 leading with a strength like that, they're going, okay, well, that's 173 00:13:24.360 --> 00:13:28.000 really cool. What else do you have to tell me about? And then 174 00:13:28.039 --> 00:13:33.559 that opens up the doors for other academic programs. So actually you would think 175 00:13:33.639 --> 00:13:39.399 that most of our applicants are engineering. No, they're mostly biology and business 176 00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:46.120 and some other smaller areas. But that door opens up. The other thing 177 00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:48.919 that leads to is, you know, one of our strengths is, yes, 178 00:13:50.039 --> 00:13:54.639 we're a small private liberal arts institution, but we don't have the sticker 179 00:13:54.759 --> 00:14:00.200 tag that other schools who are in our position, our classification, would have. 180 00:14:00.879 --> 00:14:05.440 Tuition is just over here, over twenty three Tho, and their scholarships 181 00:14:05.480 --> 00:14:07.799 available. So when you go in with your strengths and you're going into a 182 00:14:07.919 --> 00:14:11.600 market like that and you're leading with this. This really opens up the door 183 00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:16.159 and peaks up some curiosity. People will tend to stick around a little bit. 184 00:14:16.600 --> 00:14:20.120 That's great. I really like some of that because I's a couple things 185 00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:22.000 you said in there. I mean, leading with your strengths obviously is so 186 00:14:22.159 --> 00:14:26.120 important and, as you said, we've talked about that many times on other 187 00:14:26.200 --> 00:14:28.639 episodes, but even just I liked what you talked about just a couple minutes 188 00:14:28.639 --> 00:14:33.480 ago about a lot of the students start asking questions whether their webinars or other 189 00:14:33.559 --> 00:14:35.279 things were what's it like to, you know, study in the United States? 190 00:14:35.360 --> 00:14:37.879 What's the what are the rankings all about those? Those are couple things 191 00:14:37.919 --> 00:14:41.279 you mentioned and one of my big beliefs is that the more that we can 192 00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:46.240 provide content that has to do with answering the question students have, more likely 193 00:14:46.279 --> 00:14:48.919 we're going to show up in the search results that they're searching for, because, 194 00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:52.960 I mean, they're using Google as much as they're using, you know, 195 00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:56.879 whatsapp another other messaging APPs, and so being able to stand apart, 196 00:14:56.039 --> 00:14:58.240 I think, are some of those things. Are you finding some of that 197 00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:03.559 true, that you you're creating those relationships, the more that you are focusing 198 00:15:03.720 --> 00:15:07.799 on the student as the hero as opposed to your college as the hero. 199 00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:11.639 Sometimes we do get a good response. And to your point about that, 200 00:15:11.799 --> 00:15:16.279 you know searching through Google. I'm a big user of Google analytics. Before 201 00:15:16.440 --> 00:15:20.080 someone applies, they're going to visit your website, they're going to check out 202 00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:24.720 your academic programs, they're going to look at your tuition and your scholarships. 203 00:15:24.840 --> 00:15:30.320 So when you're doing market entry, I'm really looking at which countries are moving 204 00:15:30.399 --> 00:15:35.279 into that that top ten in terms of hits or in terms of other metrics, 205 00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:39.519 and what pages are they going to you know, if you're finding that 206 00:15:39.080 --> 00:15:43.039 people are going to the hours of operation for your library and or there, 207 00:15:43.120 --> 00:15:46.679 for one second, it's probably a boud or, it's not a legitimate hit. 208 00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:50.720 But when they're looking for your academic programs and so forth, okay, 209 00:15:50.840 --> 00:15:54.080 now we've got something. Now we can get the ball rolling a little bit. 210 00:15:54.759 --> 00:16:00.159 I think when you're presenting on these topics that are a little more neutral 211 00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:03.279 and you do get an opportunity to talk about York a little bit, you 212 00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:08.559 find that people are looking at you as the authority in that subject manager. 213 00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:14.679 They're more apt to ask you questions. They see the faith, they hear 214 00:16:14.840 --> 00:16:18.639 you talk, they look at the content they say, okay, you know, 215 00:16:18.919 --> 00:16:21.879 I'm going to maybe give this person a chance or give the school chance 216 00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:26.879 and they wind up telling friends and a lot of these presentations are then can 217 00:16:26.960 --> 00:16:30.919 be streamed online. So I've done a lot on facebook live where people can 218 00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:36.960 view it later on and then and then connect with me later. That's great. 219 00:16:37.240 --> 00:16:38.399 Now, I know in our pre interview we talked a little bit about 220 00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:41.200 some different stories and I think that you had a student who was in Vietnam. 221 00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:44.960 Tell us a little bit about that and how that played out. Yeah, 222 00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:47.919 I had a great student that we have been talking through email for a 223 00:16:48.039 --> 00:16:52.840 while and we started chatting through Zalo, which was, you know, predominantly 224 00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:56.799 popular in Vietnam, specific to her. And what was different was, you 225 00:16:56.879 --> 00:17:00.399 know, first she was very apprehensive. So when you're going in using these 226 00:17:00.440 --> 00:17:06.720 messaging APPS, you want to identify yourself, who you are and why are 227 00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:11.119 contacting them. That that's something you definitely want to do. But she knew 228 00:17:11.319 --> 00:17:15.519 York and she knew my name from previous emails and she so she first asked 229 00:17:15.559 --> 00:17:18.839 a question. Is this the Real York? I said, I said yes, 230 00:17:18.920 --> 00:17:21.480 it's me, it's Christian, she goes Oh, okay, but she 231 00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:29.480 had talked about she had previously attended school at high school in we was in 232 00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:33.680 Ohio, she had done her her year ten there and now she was back 233 00:17:33.880 --> 00:17:40.559 in Vietnam for year eleven and we'll be there for you twelve. And I 234 00:17:40.839 --> 00:17:44.519 kind of slowed her down a little bit and I said what's you'll tell me 235 00:17:44.559 --> 00:17:48.400 about what that experience was like and what are the differences between going to school 236 00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:53.559 in Vietnam as opposed to the United States? It was very interesting and she 237 00:17:53.680 --> 00:18:00.079 talked about how the differences in curriculum, how much pressure there was in in 238 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:03.720 Vietnam compared to the United States for students to perform well academically, and that 239 00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:07.759 kind of really stuck out to me and we had a probably talked for about 240 00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:12.359 thirty or forty minutes. You know, if that's an email, conversation doesn't 241 00:18:12.400 --> 00:18:17.440 take place. And a lot of times we get really wrapped up in saying 242 00:18:17.640 --> 00:18:21.640 how great we are and and we all have those strings. We want to 243 00:18:21.720 --> 00:18:26.000 lead with that and we often forget to ask, you know, how are 244 00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:30.200 you tell me more kids have been through a lot these past couple of years. 245 00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:33.160 I mean even domestically. You have kids who are, you know, 246 00:18:33.480 --> 00:18:37.359 those class trips are gone, PROMS gone, all these different opportunities are gone, 247 00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:41.559 sports canceled, gone. Those students are going through the same thing and 248 00:18:41.680 --> 00:18:47.119 they're trying to make a decision on higher education. This is really new for 249 00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:52.559 them. This is a completely different culture, different education system, and they're 250 00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:56.480 trying to adjust and the messaging APPS and the conversations I've had through the messaging 251 00:18:56.559 --> 00:19:03.000 APPs has allowed me to kind of a little build a better relationship with the 252 00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:07.279 students and be able to share more information and get more information from them. 253 00:19:07.640 --> 00:19:11.880 That's great and I know that. Earlier in the conversation we were talking a 254 00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:14.880 little bit about the idea that, you know, buying names. You know, 255 00:19:15.039 --> 00:19:17.960 that's that's a kind of a popular way for traditional Undergrad as you know, 256 00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:21.440 hey, let's buy names from all the test test groups, you know, 257 00:19:21.640 --> 00:19:23.759 Sata, set those types of things, and then kind of put it 258 00:19:23.880 --> 00:19:26.039 in, set it and forget it. I think that's you know, all 259 00:19:26.119 --> 00:19:30.200 right, that's a and it's hard to stand apart and a lot of times 260 00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:33.359 I think that that then kind of leads into the comm flow, the admissions 261 00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:37.000 com flow. That okay, we've got an application. Now we need to 262 00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:38.400 do some comm flow to kind of get them to the next phase of the 263 00:19:38.480 --> 00:19:42.480 funnel and the whole thing. How is it different with international students in what 264 00:19:42.680 --> 00:19:47.799 some people might recognize as traditional Undergrad because, I mean, some schools are 265 00:19:47.880 --> 00:19:52.039 recognizing that to grow they need to start looking more internationally, they need to 266 00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:55.720 start looking a little bit more creatively in growing in round. And tell us 267 00:19:55.720 --> 00:19:59.279 a little bit about how com flow specifically is different. So the COMPLO is 268 00:19:59.359 --> 00:20:02.559 going to be different? Well, first this is going to work best within 269 00:20:02.680 --> 00:20:06.880 bound leads. So if you're purchasing a name, the phone number most likely 270 00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:10.480 is not going to calm down. This is best for people who are going 271 00:20:10.519 --> 00:20:14.759 to going to raise their hands and say yes, yes, I'm interested right. 272 00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:18.720 One of the things that we need to keep in mind with international enrollment 273 00:20:18.799 --> 00:20:22.160 is we're used to a certain academic calendar. Nor, you know, August 274 00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:26.880 and September to usually May. Orage. Different curriculums and different parts of the 275 00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:33.119 world are going to go on completely different calendars. So if you're in South 276 00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:37.799 America, let's say Paraguay, your academic count is going to run from February 277 00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:42.200 or March to or we would call thanksgiving. That November December. So you're 278 00:20:42.200 --> 00:20:47.240 a com flow is now very, very different. So if now, if 279 00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:52.920 you start, you know, trying to nurture leads in October or September, 280 00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:57.400 you're late for that group. They're getting ready to graduate. You now have 281 00:20:57.640 --> 00:21:02.039 ready to go on summer break because, yeah, is in the Southern Hemisphere, 282 00:21:02.319 --> 00:21:04.720 exactly, exactly. So that's that's very, very, very different. 283 00:21:06.039 --> 00:21:10.519 There's other things you have to think about in terms of vocabulary. Although we 284 00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:15.000 may be speaking the same language, there's things that are a little bit different. 285 00:21:15.839 --> 00:21:19.640 So Southeast Asia, for example, they'll use the term course. Please 286 00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:25.200 tell me about your computer science course, and you're on the other side thinking 287 00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:27.880 why is this person asking me about specific class? We have lots of computer 288 00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:33.720 science courses. What they really mean is major and when you're talking with a 289 00:21:33.799 --> 00:21:37.440 student, they might be saying, you know, I understand what you're saying. 290 00:21:38.119 --> 00:21:42.640 I have a doubt you think I some you your initial reactions to take 291 00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:47.359 that personally, I have a doubt. What they mean is I have a 292 00:21:47.480 --> 00:21:52.440 question. So you have these different vocabularies that are interchangeable and you're trying to 293 00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:56.720 kind of nail this down. So so that's different. So those are some 294 00:21:56.799 --> 00:22:00.519 of the ways where it's a little bit different. You know, I would 295 00:22:00.519 --> 00:22:08.000 also say that students, they do want to hear about alumni and recent alumni. 296 00:22:08.519 --> 00:22:14.000 They want to hear about tuition and scholarships. All students want to do 297 00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:18.119 that, but not all scholarships are available to international students. So they want 298 00:22:18.119 --> 00:22:22.920 to hear a little bit more about the scholarship opportunities for them and they do 299 00:22:23.039 --> 00:22:26.039 want to hear about correct them. When I'm talking with students, you're going 300 00:22:26.079 --> 00:22:30.480 to be taking these classes or these, you know subjects, you're from southeast 301 00:22:30.519 --> 00:22:34.440 Aja, we term subjects. Will be doing that and they want to hear 302 00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:38.799 from other students on campus, current students, so I'll be doing I'll be 303 00:22:38.920 --> 00:22:44.519 doing that as well. That's great. I really appreciate just understanding those, 304 00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:48.039 those subtleties, because I think that, like you said earlier, I think 305 00:22:48.119 --> 00:22:52.720 the APPS start to build trust and the relationship right and I think that once 306 00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:56.880 you start to adapt your language to their language, just like you adapt your 307 00:22:57.279 --> 00:23:02.799 preference of your APP to their preference, I think that's just human nature that 308 00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:04.880 we're going to build trust and we're going to build relationships that way. That's 309 00:23:04.960 --> 00:23:10.880 great. We talk a lot about it on this show. Schools are really 310 00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:15.359 struggling today to make the same apps been work. CPMS are up eighty nine 311 00:23:15.400 --> 00:23:18.960 percent you over year. On facebook and Instagram, our college clients are no 312 00:23:19.079 --> 00:23:23.119 longer looking for rented audiences. They're looking for an owned community where they can 313 00:23:23.160 --> 00:23:27.759 engage students even before they apply. This is why Zeemi has become so crucial 314 00:23:27.799 --> 00:23:33.440 for our clients. With over one million students, close to tenzero five star 315 00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:37.440 ratings, consistently ranked as one of the top social laps and recently one of 316 00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:41.039 apples hot APPs of the week, there is simply isn't anything out there like 317 00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:45.599 it, and we have seen it all. Zeemi not only provides the best 318 00:23:45.640 --> 00:23:48.799 space for student engagement, but the most unique in action will data for their 319 00:23:48.839 --> 00:23:55.000 one hundred and sixty college and university partners. We know firsthand from our clients 320 00:23:55.079 --> 00:23:59.039 that Zeemi is a must have strategy for Gen Z. check them out now. 321 00:23:59.240 --> 00:24:06.839 At college is Dot Zee mecom. That's colleges dot Zee m eecom. 322 00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:12.839 And yes, tell them Barton Troy sent you Christian. As a smaller Liberal 323 00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:18.799 Arts College, how do you compete with some of the larger schools that have 324 00:24:18.039 --> 00:24:22.480 the presence, that have the budget when you are marketing to international students. 325 00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:29.200 So we understand and we understand where we are in the market place. We 326 00:24:29.400 --> 00:24:32.640 know our position. We are not in Ivy League school, we are not 327 00:24:32.759 --> 00:24:37.680 what many people call a a tier one institution and we're not trying to compete 328 00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:41.079 with with the ives and so forth. Knowing your position and who you are 329 00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:48.000 is very important. So I have students now where they have really, you 330 00:24:48.079 --> 00:24:53.440 know, consciously reached out to schools with our profile. You know they're going 331 00:24:53.480 --> 00:24:57.079 to get lost at a larger school they don't feel feel comfortable. And I 332 00:24:57.119 --> 00:25:02.400 have a student now that was admitted and then met with their parents over zoom 333 00:25:03.079 --> 00:25:07.480 and it was clear from those communications, in the communication with the guidance counselor 334 00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:12.920 in the student that they were looking for a small institution, when someone who's 335 00:25:12.920 --> 00:25:17.559 they were going to be able to look after them and nurture them a little 336 00:25:17.599 --> 00:25:19.960 bit, where they're going to get lost. I have other students say, 337 00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:25.119 you know, I've never studied at a large school. I prefer a smaller 338 00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:30.119 school in a smaller city, or I have different health issues. It's very 339 00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:33.960 important that I you're very flexible with me and when we can do that and 340 00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:37.799 we could be very flexible so we're not always competing with the same student, 341 00:25:38.079 --> 00:25:42.240 but we kind of know our place and the guidance staff and the students tend 342 00:25:42.319 --> 00:25:47.240 to know our place as well how we can assist them with our higher education 343 00:25:47.400 --> 00:25:48.680 needs. I think that's great and I think it kind of goes into the 344 00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:52.759 whole idea of ultimately customer service. I mean you just talked about how all 345 00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:57.359 that kind of flows in and being a smaller school you I often tell a 346 00:25:57.359 --> 00:26:00.759 lot of my clients, you know, they sometimes bemoan about well, we're 347 00:26:00.839 --> 00:26:04.000 so small, but you can do things so differently. You can. You 348 00:26:04.119 --> 00:26:08.039 can really do the personal touch that you know a large, a large tier 349 00:26:08.160 --> 00:26:11.240 one or an, I view Ivy League cannot do because just as the sheer 350 00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:15.279 volume. So tell us a little bit about the philosophy that Yourk has with 351 00:26:15.400 --> 00:26:18.359 kind of that customer service approach. Right. So, now that we've leverished 352 00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:22.200 our strengths, we feel we're at a good price point when you're going into 353 00:26:22.279 --> 00:26:26.319 a new market. We kind of had this discussion and I kind of wanted 354 00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:30.519 to push you know, who are we going to be? What will be 355 00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:34.400 our our personality? Source and one of those was customer service, who want 356 00:26:34.440 --> 00:26:41.759 to provide accessibility to information and accessibility to me. I've had students reach out 357 00:26:41.839 --> 00:26:48.319 to me through through what's happen? One question I have want to particular student 358 00:26:48.440 --> 00:26:52.400 in mind who just flat out said to me you have no idea how difficult 359 00:26:52.480 --> 00:26:56.720 it is to get in touch with someone and the missions office and then you 360 00:26:56.799 --> 00:27:00.720 know, there I am. And then when you're doing this, it's you're 361 00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:03.480 not on all the time. What's APP does provide an out of office? 362 00:27:03.759 --> 00:27:10.279 I am present from this time to this time and I'm not available. You 363 00:27:10.319 --> 00:27:12.400 know. Please you can convert your time zone here. It's the quick little 364 00:27:12.440 --> 00:27:17.880 statement to do that. But to be able to say hey, I need 365 00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:22.279 that, that English proficiency exam or the need that transcript, they can send 366 00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:26.480 it through the messaging apps and then I can verify that. Know if it's 367 00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:30.920 an English proficiency exam and says such as an eye ELTs, I can verify 368 00:27:32.079 --> 00:27:37.359 that online. Some transcripts now there's a Qr Code. I can get my 369 00:27:37.559 --> 00:27:41.279 code, I can I can get my phone, I can scan that with 370 00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:45.880 my camera and then I can go on the Ministry of Educations website and I 371 00:27:45.960 --> 00:27:48.039 guess it. Okay, check the box. I know having transcript. That's 372 00:27:48.079 --> 00:27:52.720 amazing and that's all I needed to complete it. So so those types of 373 00:27:52.839 --> 00:27:56.799 things go a long way. They see the speed at which the application can 374 00:27:56.880 --> 00:28:00.640 be processed and that you can leverage. Yeah, that sounds like an eye 375 00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:04.599 and I'm guessing that not only does that work through the application process, but 376 00:28:04.839 --> 00:28:10.599 even through retention and on campus. I'm sure that those relationships continue. I 377 00:28:10.680 --> 00:28:14.559 mean, obviously you've built a relationship with them. You know, some schools 378 00:28:14.599 --> 00:28:15.920 it's kind of like the counselor does it? You know, does a handoff 379 00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:18.519 to the to the student life, and then, you know, no more 380 00:28:18.680 --> 00:28:22.319 do they get content connected. But it sounds like York might have have a 381 00:28:22.359 --> 00:28:26.000 different philosophy on that as well. Right, so the conversation still continue. 382 00:28:26.279 --> 00:28:30.079 What you do need to do is, is the phone numbers going to be 383 00:28:30.200 --> 00:28:33.319 changed? Most likely the students going to get a new stem card. There 384 00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:36.599 you get a new WHATSAPP account or whatever account it is. They're going to 385 00:28:36.680 --> 00:28:40.079 do that. Well, once you match up with them again, you can 386 00:28:40.160 --> 00:28:44.119 have conversations and I'll reach out. Hey you, neatl. How's that class 387 00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:45.400 going? How's your semester going? Did you get that, you know, 388 00:28:45.559 --> 00:28:48.960 that dining planet you wanted, or do you get that room that you wanted? 389 00:28:49.079 --> 00:28:52.680 Or you still looking for a job? I need somebody to help out 390 00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:56.480 because I'll use current students to then reach out at that great students. That's 391 00:28:56.599 --> 00:29:03.960 great and they can talk about the experience they had during the application process and 392 00:29:03.160 --> 00:29:07.960 then saying you're going to get taken care of here, you know you're going 393 00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:10.920 to be okay, someone's going to look after you. Would aside from the 394 00:29:10.960 --> 00:29:14.400 other things that we do, the kind of help with with retention, but 395 00:29:14.519 --> 00:29:18.960 that's certainly helpful student coming in knowing that they've been taken care of and that 396 00:29:19.160 --> 00:29:23.759 continues to happen once they're here at York, especially in a place where they're 397 00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:29.039 we all can relate to being kind of the odd person out in the sense 398 00:29:29.240 --> 00:29:33.039 and I can only imagine, and you know, traveling halfway around the world, 399 00:29:33.559 --> 00:29:37.359 you know, coming into a small Pennsylvania town and you know setting setting 400 00:29:37.440 --> 00:29:41.799 down and creating a new life that there's there's a lot of a lot of 401 00:29:41.880 --> 00:29:44.640 stress and a lot of fear with that, even even for the most savage 402 00:29:44.720 --> 00:29:48.200 students Christian. We like to end our episodes by asking our guests if there 403 00:29:48.440 --> 00:29:52.680 is a thought or a tip that they could share that would be impactful to 404 00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:57.400 our listeners soon they're after so do you have any thoughts you can share before 405 00:29:57.480 --> 00:30:03.480 we wind up our episode? Sure you know, messaging APPs are completely free. 406 00:30:03.319 --> 00:30:10.519 It's no cost. Many institutions will give their emission reps a cell phone 407 00:30:10.599 --> 00:30:14.440 and a cell plan. If you can't do that now you know get can 408 00:30:14.480 --> 00:30:18.559 you get that and requested in your budgets almost budget time, July first coming 409 00:30:18.599 --> 00:30:22.359 around. But this is a really low cost initiative that can that can pay 410 00:30:22.480 --> 00:30:26.799 off and the other argument that I get back is I don't have the time 411 00:30:26.119 --> 00:30:30.559 to do that. See if you can mobilize your current students. I have 412 00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:34.759 that happening right now. I have my current students reaching out to recently admitted 413 00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:37.880 students who are going to be making their final decisions soon. They can give 414 00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:42.400 a perspective that I can. They're the ones taking the classes, they're the 415 00:30:42.440 --> 00:30:45.960 ones eating at the dining halls, living, living in the residence halls, 416 00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:51.480 participating in the clubs and organizations, doing all these different things, playing sports. 417 00:30:52.039 --> 00:30:56.480 They can speak to that much better than than I can. So to 418 00:30:56.599 --> 00:31:00.480 have those conversations happen if you don't have the time, are very valuable as 419 00:31:00.519 --> 00:31:04.680 well. Thank you very much, Christian, and I will say through our 420 00:31:04.720 --> 00:31:10.640 conversations we've had with you, we can see the big improvement from when you 421 00:31:10.680 --> 00:31:15.240 didn't know what telegram was, and so, being the resource that you are 422 00:31:15.400 --> 00:31:19.920 now and being that knowledgeable resource, what would be the best way for someone 423 00:31:21.079 --> 00:31:23.079 contact you if they would like to do so? You can do it through 424 00:31:23.240 --> 00:31:26.160 email and my name is a little long, so I'll go through and spell 425 00:31:26.200 --> 00:31:36.920 it's the letter c dig our EG Oh are ioh at y CP DOT Edu. 426 00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:40.759 The domain is a lot easier than than the first part and if you 427 00:31:40.839 --> 00:31:42.559 want to get in touch with me, I will give my what's at at 428 00:31:42.599 --> 00:31:49.000 plus one seven, one seven, three zero nine, one zero eight. 429 00:31:49.720 --> 00:31:55.039 Thank you, Christian. You've shared a lot and would like to know if 430 00:31:55.119 --> 00:32:00.000 there's any upcoming events that you have that you would like to share. You 431 00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:02.279 know we do have some virtual open houses that will happen in the fall. 432 00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:07.480 One of the Nice big things that we got through market entry is I'll be 433 00:32:07.559 --> 00:32:15.119 giving a plenary session at a country's Guidance Counseling Association Annual Conference. So having 434 00:32:15.279 --> 00:32:17.680 that as part of your market entry. I think that's a that's a pretty 435 00:32:17.720 --> 00:32:22.440 good successful I'm very excited about that. That will occur in mid May. 436 00:32:22.759 --> 00:32:25.599 Thank you very much for being a guest and we wish you the best of 437 00:32:25.720 --> 00:32:29.759 luck, Christian. Thank you so much, Bart. Do you have any 438 00:32:29.839 --> 00:32:31.759 final thoughts or words you would like to share? Yeah, I just want 439 00:32:31.799 --> 00:32:36.039 to point out a few things that I kind of been taking away from this 440 00:32:36.279 --> 00:32:38.240 conversation. That I that I think applies to just about everyone. I know 441 00:32:38.440 --> 00:32:40.799 some people might be listening and saying, well, we don't do a lot 442 00:32:40.839 --> 00:32:45.279 of international admissions and so not sure how much applies, but couple things I 443 00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:49.200 want you to take away from this. Is One Christian is one that I 444 00:32:49.319 --> 00:32:53.440 think has been very open and willing to try new things. I know that 445 00:32:53.599 --> 00:32:58.640 right now a lot of enrollment leaders listen to this podcast. A lot of 446 00:32:58.680 --> 00:33:00.920 marketers listen to this podcast. Asked and you work with a lot of a 447 00:33:00.960 --> 00:33:04.799 lot of people who might not want to change the way things have been done 448 00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:08.119 and even the way things were done four years ago, two years ago. 449 00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:13.960 Things continue to evolve and I really like the fact that Christian leaned into and 450 00:33:14.039 --> 00:33:17.160 ask what is telegram and leaned into that and has really kind of created a 451 00:33:17.240 --> 00:33:22.359 whole new way of recruiting through these messaging APPs, and so I would encourage 452 00:33:22.400 --> 00:33:28.079 you as marketers, as in leaders, to really kind of look at water 453 00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:32.839 ways that we can lean into a new technology, new methods or means of 454 00:33:32.920 --> 00:33:37.880 doing things. I've been working with a school lately of really encouraging video emails. 455 00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:39.720 You know, as Christian state and you know, standing out from the 456 00:33:39.799 --> 00:33:45.680 crowd, what a better way than to send a personalized video in an email 457 00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:49.359 or a text? And I'm thinking more stateside for, you know, some 458 00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:51.759 of the traditional Undergrad is that, you know, have a lot of schools 459 00:33:51.839 --> 00:33:55.319 complained that, Hey, students aren't picking up their phone, they're not answering 460 00:33:55.440 --> 00:33:59.880 our calls, they're not, you know, responding to our you know, 461 00:33:59.920 --> 00:34:02.680 there's no voice mail, that the voice mailbox is full. What do we 462 00:34:02.799 --> 00:34:06.519 do? Well, I think that we've got to start looking at these other 463 00:34:06.799 --> 00:34:10.119 other ways, and texting is kind of the state side equivalent of these messaging 464 00:34:10.199 --> 00:34:15.559 apps and I think that I think utilizing that technology, utilizing video emails, 465 00:34:15.639 --> 00:34:17.840 so important and I think also one thing that you might have heard from Christian 466 00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:22.519 is that he is building relationships. And so if you're relying on this automated 467 00:34:22.599 --> 00:34:28.440 platform of even automated emails or automated texting. You've got to change that up 468 00:34:28.480 --> 00:34:31.000 and you've got to really start looking at it as a relationship build and how 469 00:34:31.079 --> 00:34:35.599 can you get personal and how can you grow that? So again, Christian, 470 00:34:35.639 --> 00:34:37.719 thanks so much for taking time today and really appreciate your time on the 471 00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:40.719 on the podcast. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. 472 00:34:42.599 --> 00:34:46.320 The hired marketer podcast is sponsored by Taylor solutions and education, marketing and 473 00:34:46.480 --> 00:34:52.559 branding agency and by thing patented, a marketing, execution, printing and mailing 474 00:34:52.639 --> 00:34:57.639 provider of Higher Ed Solutions. On behalf of my cohost Bart Taylor, I'm 475 00:34:57.760 --> 00:35:02.920 troy singer. Thanks again for joining us. You've been listening to the Higher 476 00:35:04.039 --> 00:35:07.119 Ed Marketer. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the 477 00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:13.079 show in your favorite podcast player. If you're listening with apple PODCASTS, we'd 478 00:35:13.159 --> 00:35:15.480 love for you to leave a quick rating of the show. Simply tap the 479 00:35:15.559 --> 00:35:20.159 number of stars you think the podcast deserves. Until next time,