Finding Unique Identifiers: Marketing & Small Colleges w/ Dan Sanchez

WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.879 --> 00:00:07.190 You were listening to the Higher Ed Marketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals 2 00:00:07.230 --> 00:00:11.910 in higher education. This show will tackle all sorts of questions related to student 3 00:00:11.949 --> 00:00:16.230 recruitment, don'tor relations, marketing trends, new technologies and so much more. 4 00:00:16.989 --> 00:00:20.789 If you are looking for conversations centered around where the industry is going, this 5 00:00:20.989 --> 00:00:29.859 podcast is for you. Let's get into the show. Welcome to the High 6 00:00:29.899 --> 00:00:35.420 Reed Marketer podcast, where we have conversations with higher reed professionals that we admire 7 00:00:35.969 --> 00:00:40.450 to learn from for you and for us. I'm Roye singer and I'm here 8 00:00:40.490 --> 00:00:45.609 with Bart Taylor and we get to interview one of the people that we follow 9 00:00:45.770 --> 00:00:50.200 on Linkedin that were so impressed. He works both in the BEDB space but 10 00:00:50.359 --> 00:00:54.759 also in the higher marketer space. So Bart, tell everyone a little bit 11 00:00:54.799 --> 00:01:00.359 about Dan Chez, Dan Santiz. Yeah, so Dan Sanchez is is somebody 12 00:01:00.399 --> 00:01:04.590 that I met recently through a through another person, and he he does go 13 00:01:04.750 --> 00:01:10.670 by the Hashtag Dan chazz on on Linkedin and he's a really fascinating guy. 14 00:01:10.790 --> 00:01:15.390 He's he made a big impact for a very small school that I'm aware of. 15 00:01:15.950 --> 00:01:21.340 Two Small Bible College called Bethany Global University up in the Minneapolis and and 16 00:01:21.459 --> 00:01:26.219 then I later learned that he also did be to be marketing through a podcast 17 00:01:26.299 --> 00:01:30.140 and actually, full transparency, the company he's with, sweet fish media, 18 00:01:30.500 --> 00:01:34.769 produces the highered marketer podcast for us, and so we've been partners with them 19 00:01:34.810 --> 00:01:38.489 since late last year, and so it's been great to kind of get to 20 00:01:38.609 --> 00:01:42.569 know Dan, but also to kind of know that origin story of the impact 21 00:01:42.609 --> 00:01:48.400 that he made at a very small college and how the the incredible growth that 22 00:01:48.480 --> 00:01:51.640 he was able to do through a lot of marketing on small budgets. And 23 00:01:51.760 --> 00:01:53.319 so a lot of what we'll talk about today is you know what that looked 24 00:01:53.319 --> 00:01:57.359 like and how that came about. He is one of the most interesting follows 25 00:01:57.480 --> 00:02:02.230 that you can have on Linkedin and we're so excited to have a conversation with 26 00:02:02.310 --> 00:02:07.510 him. So instead of just talking about how good he is, let's bring 27 00:02:07.549 --> 00:02:14.509 him into the conversation. Please help me welcome Dan Sanchez, director of audience 28 00:02:14.669 --> 00:02:19.979 growth with sweet fish media and also previously with Bethley Global University, to the 29 00:02:20.060 --> 00:02:24.819 Higher Ed Marketer podcast. Dan, thank you for joining us today. Thank 30 00:02:24.819 --> 00:02:29.460 you for having me on the show. Our pleasure. If you could give 31 00:02:29.740 --> 00:02:34.889 us a little bit about your background and what you currently do to help marketers 32 00:02:35.009 --> 00:02:40.569 like us, both outside of Higher Ed but within the be tob space as 33 00:02:40.650 --> 00:02:45.599 well, certainly so. Currently I am the director of audience growth for a 34 00:02:45.639 --> 00:02:52.199 sweet fish media and it's a company focused on helping be to be brands produced 35 00:02:52.199 --> 00:02:55.000 podcasts. I'll often just meet with a lot of customers and talk about how 36 00:02:55.039 --> 00:03:00.550 to grow a podcast audience specifically. But before that I was working at a 37 00:03:00.590 --> 00:03:04.949 higher education institution called Bethany Global University, where I was the marketing director for 38 00:03:05.030 --> 00:03:09.870 about six years, and I started as a marketing department of one and grew. 39 00:03:10.629 --> 00:03:14.060 We together we are able to grow, and it's not just me, 40 00:03:14.139 --> 00:03:16.500 as always more more than just one person, but mean the admissions team. 41 00:03:16.539 --> 00:03:22.539 You know. We're able to triple the enrollment of the university in a and 42 00:03:22.620 --> 00:03:25.620 a short amount of time and a department grew from me to a department of 43 00:03:25.659 --> 00:03:30.129 about twenty four to twenty five people. Wow. You know, I thought 44 00:03:30.169 --> 00:03:34.770 I knew you and I follow you and I've had conversations, but I didn't 45 00:03:34.770 --> 00:03:38.449 realize that you had the growth at Bethne international like you did. So thank 46 00:03:38.490 --> 00:03:45.199 you for sharing that and I must say that Bart and I utilize sweet fish 47 00:03:45.360 --> 00:03:51.039 media to produce this podcast. So we we know your dynamics and we want 48 00:03:51.039 --> 00:03:54.520 to share it with our other brethren and Higher Ed Marketing. Bart. Yeah, 49 00:03:54.520 --> 00:03:57.949 I appreciate you being here, Dan, and I just wanted to I'm 50 00:03:57.990 --> 00:04:00.430 glad, Troy, you kind of made the transparency for everybody that we do 51 00:04:00.550 --> 00:04:03.189 work with sweet fish media. But I think the reason that we are working 52 00:04:03.229 --> 00:04:06.069 with sweetfish is kind of an interesting story, which brings us back to Bethny 53 00:04:06.110 --> 00:04:10.939 global. I do a lot of work with small Bible Colleges and small faith 54 00:04:10.979 --> 00:04:16.620 based institutions and the director of admissions can fear at Bethany Global University and I 55 00:04:16.699 --> 00:04:21.259 have been connected and we've attended several conferences to other and have gotten to know 56 00:04:21.339 --> 00:04:27.209 each other pretty well through Linkedin and and I know Ken has a really good 57 00:04:27.209 --> 00:04:30.649 friend of yours, Dan, and that's really how the introduction happened, is 58 00:04:30.689 --> 00:04:33.170 that as I was talking to Ken about some of his marketing and what was 59 00:04:33.209 --> 00:04:36.970 going on at Bgu, he kind of talked about some of the success that 60 00:04:38.009 --> 00:04:41.600 you guys have had together when you were at b Gu together, and and 61 00:04:41.800 --> 00:04:45.240 when I looked you up and saw that you were with sweetish media, now 62 00:04:45.399 --> 00:04:47.519 and I started looking into sweetish media and I saw that, well, it's 63 00:04:47.600 --> 00:04:50.920 podcast. That's pretty cool, and I think one thing led to another and 64 00:04:51.240 --> 00:04:54.750 here we are on episode, you know, Twenty eight or whatever of our 65 00:04:54.829 --> 00:04:59.189 podcast, and so so. But I wanted everybody on those on the show 66 00:04:59.269 --> 00:05:01.829 to understand that it kind of came out of Higher Ed and then kind of 67 00:05:01.829 --> 00:05:04.550 went to the podcasting. Now we're coming full circle, and so it's it's 68 00:05:04.589 --> 00:05:08.579 really great to be able to kind of talk about, you know, now 69 00:05:08.620 --> 00:05:11.620 that you and I have a relationship through sweetfish, to be able to talk 70 00:05:11.620 --> 00:05:14.899 about what you did at Bgu, because I do think that made such a 71 00:05:15.420 --> 00:05:17.779 impact and you know some of the stats that you just talked about. Obviously 72 00:05:17.779 --> 00:05:21.089 it's not a it's not one person that does it. It's and depending on 73 00:05:21.170 --> 00:05:25.290 where people are, there's credit for a lot of people. There's also, 74 00:05:25.329 --> 00:05:29.290 you know, divine intervention many times on these campuses, and so it I 75 00:05:29.410 --> 00:05:30.769 think it's important to kind of talk about that. But one of the things 76 00:05:30.810 --> 00:05:34.009 I wanted to talk about was just where did you start with? I mean 77 00:05:34.209 --> 00:05:36.519 you come on, you come on campus, you know, six, seven 78 00:05:36.519 --> 00:05:40.560 years ago, I don't know how long it was when you arrived, but, 79 00:05:41.279 --> 00:05:44.639 you know, most very small schools. And just to kind of put 80 00:05:44.680 --> 00:05:47.360 it in context, I mean what's the what's the enrollment at Bgu? I 81 00:05:47.399 --> 00:05:51.670 think it's important for people to understand it's currently at about three sixty, two 82 00:05:51.790 --> 00:05:55.230 hundred and seventy. Okay, now, that's always kind of going up and 83 00:05:55.269 --> 00:05:58.629 down. Yeah, yeah, and that's pretty typical. That's that's pretty typical 84 00:05:58.910 --> 00:06:01.550 of what I would consider small Bible colleges. I mean it's a very specific, 85 00:06:01.629 --> 00:06:08.819 very specific part of Christian higher education, part of a higher education in 86 00:06:08.939 --> 00:06:12.300 general, but that's a that's a that's a typical size of some of these 87 00:06:12.339 --> 00:06:15.420 smaller schools and I think sometimes when you look at that, and I know 88 00:06:15.500 --> 00:06:18.730 that we've talked to people from purdue and University of Kentucky, and this is 89 00:06:18.769 --> 00:06:23.250 a different type of podcast today, because, I mean it's one thing when 90 00:06:23.290 --> 00:06:27.170 you have a student body of fifty fivezero people. It's another thing when you 91 00:06:27.209 --> 00:06:31.050 have a student body of three hundred and sixty. And so the challenges that 92 00:06:31.170 --> 00:06:36.959 come with going in scale down obviously comes with the know how much money you 93 00:06:38.079 --> 00:06:41.199 have to spend and I know a lot of people get very frustrated, whether 94 00:06:41.199 --> 00:06:44.680 you're a whether you're a marketing department at a large school or Marketing Department at 95 00:06:44.720 --> 00:06:46.589 Small School. I so many times here. Boy, if we just had 96 00:06:46.629 --> 00:06:49.470 a little bit more money, we could do so much more, but you 97 00:06:49.589 --> 00:06:53.029 didn't have just a little bit more money. So tell us kind of what 98 00:06:53.149 --> 00:06:56.589 that was about, Dan, and how how that kind of informed you and 99 00:06:56.790 --> 00:06:59.709 what you did about that, because obviously you didn't just sit by and say, 100 00:06:59.949 --> 00:07:02.019 Oh, woe is me. I'm willing to share as many details and 101 00:07:02.060 --> 00:07:09.139 numbers as I could possibly remember. I actually was working at an agency that 102 00:07:09.220 --> 00:07:14.100 I wasn't really happy and when can the guy you'd mentioned was work, he'd 103 00:07:14.139 --> 00:07:16.329 got put in charge of marketing and admissions because he's kind of an operations get 104 00:07:16.370 --> 00:07:20.009 they're like hey, can you run a call center before? We just laid 105 00:07:20.009 --> 00:07:23.889 off the admissions guy year in charge now, and he's like okay, but 106 00:07:23.970 --> 00:07:27.569 he's kind of a go get it kind of person. So he calls one 107 00:07:27.610 --> 00:07:30.319 of the closest, one of the closer friends he has that he knows nose 108 00:07:30.360 --> 00:07:34.199 marketing. And that was me. But I was twenty six, like I 109 00:07:34.279 --> 00:07:36.839 wasn't at old, you know, I was kind of like just starting in 110 00:07:38.000 --> 00:07:40.759 my career, but I was doing well in a marketing agency and I just 111 00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:45.230 had just been inquired by another agency that was a shopper marketing agency, which 112 00:07:45.230 --> 00:07:47.750 is like the kind of stuff you do to sell more package consumer goods at 113 00:07:47.790 --> 00:07:53.269 like Walmartin grocery stores and stuff. Not My favorite thing, the direction that 114 00:07:53.389 --> 00:07:57.829 was heading. So naturally a phone call turned to, you know, advice, 115 00:07:58.029 --> 00:08:01.500 turned to paid consulting, turned to freelance, turned to lots of freelance 116 00:08:01.540 --> 00:08:03.379 and then I was like okay, I think, I think I'd like to 117 00:08:03.459 --> 00:08:05.019 work there full time. So I had such a good time. So actually 118 00:08:05.019 --> 00:08:09.300 did the whole website for them and a little bit of branding work. Not 119 00:08:09.420 --> 00:08:13.649 a lot, but it's just getting cleaning things up and helping them get back 120 00:08:13.649 --> 00:08:16.610 on track, running some ad words, and then I came on full time. 121 00:08:18.569 --> 00:08:22.050 The budget at the time was probably, it's going to think, somewhere 122 00:08:22.050 --> 00:08:26.170 around eighty to ninety thousand dollars and most of that went to Webber, which 123 00:08:26.329 --> 00:08:31.799 is like a poor schools waited like outsource financial aid. I think about half 124 00:08:31.840 --> 00:08:35.840 of it with the Webber. So there's not much left considering that. And 125 00:08:35.960 --> 00:08:39.399 that's not including salaries, that's just including budget. But then you have opera. 126 00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:43.950 Like saw operational costs in their printing, brochures and advertising. I think 127 00:08:45.029 --> 00:08:48.750 my advertising budget was of Thirtyzero when I first started, which just isn't a 128 00:08:48.029 --> 00:08:52.350 big budget for a school. It is tiny, but they only had an 129 00:08:52.389 --> 00:08:56.940 incoming class the year before at a forty four students, which is like so 130 00:08:58.179 --> 00:09:01.139 small and even for an Abah school that's like low. That's like we're not 131 00:09:01.220 --> 00:09:05.019 accredited yet, we're just starting in the accreditation process and Abach he's like, 132 00:09:07.139 --> 00:09:09.289 we don't know if we want to give you accreditation because your enrollments not looking 133 00:09:09.330 --> 00:09:13.769 good. They're like yeah, but if we get accredited enrollment will improve. 134 00:09:13.809 --> 00:09:18.570 They're like it's like a chicken in the egg problem, right. But that 135 00:09:18.730 --> 00:09:20.690 was my task I came in. But I also saw an opportunity from the 136 00:09:20.769 --> 00:09:24.519 outside, because they didn't know it, but they actually were sitting on a 137 00:09:24.600 --> 00:09:31.000 really good position because they're a school that was highly focused on just one degree 138 00:09:31.039 --> 00:09:33.519 jet and they only trained Christian missionaries and they had the way of doing it 139 00:09:33.639 --> 00:09:37.000 that was kind of unique and I knew enough for my like working at other 140 00:09:37.039 --> 00:09:43.070 Christian nonprofits and having that kind of a background, that there's there's at least 141 00:09:43.070 --> 00:09:46.549 a few thousand people that are thinking about becoming in a that are an aspiring 142 00:09:46.590 --> 00:09:48.830 missionary, like they want to figure out how to get to the mission field. 143 00:09:48.830 --> 00:09:50.629 I also knew that there's not really a clear path to get there. 144 00:09:50.629 --> 00:09:54.220 Like how does one become a missionary? Exactly, like even if you're listening 145 00:09:54.259 --> 00:09:58.779 to this and you're you're you're not a Christian, you're not in that camp, 146 00:09:58.940 --> 00:10:01.580 like how would you like how do you think people get there? Like 147 00:10:01.740 --> 00:10:03.580 do they go to college? Do they just go to the contact their pastor 148 00:10:03.779 --> 00:10:07.610 like, what's the steps for that? So I knew there would be a 149 00:10:07.730 --> 00:10:09.690 market for it. They actually saw it at the time. Time is it 150 00:10:09.809 --> 00:10:13.409 was too limited, right, and that's how a lot of small schools feel 151 00:10:13.409 --> 00:10:16.049 like, Oh, if only we had more degree programs, we would attract 152 00:10:16.049 --> 00:10:20.169 a larger audience. Actually feel like it's the opposite. By being more focused, 153 00:10:20.370 --> 00:10:24.960 you can actually create more momentum and instead of just focusing sometimes, in 154 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:28.679 Bethany's case, instead of just focusing regionally, I went nationally because I knew 155 00:10:28.679 --> 00:10:33.399 I could just attap try to attract a very specific kind of person. So, 156 00:10:33.559 --> 00:10:37.909 with a small budget, we actually focused at first on just really like 157 00:10:39.110 --> 00:10:41.629 not branding not even like large strategy stuff. was just trying to craft the 158 00:10:41.669 --> 00:10:46.230 right value proposition, trying to get the right message in front of just the 159 00:10:46.269 --> 00:10:50.980 right person, which for us, for the size of our budget and the 160 00:10:52.700 --> 00:10:56.220 kind of the so it's such a niche type of person you're trying to look 161 00:10:56.220 --> 00:10:58.100 for. The only two meetings we could really find them on, and it's 162 00:10:58.100 --> 00:11:01.500 still kind of a struggle to this day, and I'll could talk about that 163 00:11:01.539 --> 00:11:05.370 later, was Google ad words, people searching for it. Luckily there was 164 00:11:05.490 --> 00:11:09.690 some search volume for this. And facebook. We actually got really lucky that 165 00:11:11.049 --> 00:11:13.370 right about the time I was considering facebook adds is right when they started putting 166 00:11:13.370 --> 00:11:18.009 ads in the new speed and we took advantage that summer. Like it was 167 00:11:18.490 --> 00:11:20.480 only a few months after they first started doing that, and that's when facebook 168 00:11:20.480 --> 00:11:26.759 ads really started to go crazy. We split tested things, we use lots 169 00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:31.200 of creative we try to hone it in. Run people to a landing page, 170 00:11:31.240 --> 00:11:33.669 get them to request a brochure and then, slowly but surely, we 171 00:11:33.750 --> 00:11:37.350 kind of built out the process for how to follow up with them in order 172 00:11:37.350 --> 00:11:39.190 to get them to apply and walk the rest of the way down the admissions 173 00:11:39.190 --> 00:11:43.429 funnel. But it was a really simple step. You're talking one landing page 174 00:11:43.830 --> 00:11:48.019 and digital ads and then just trying to craft the message right and trying to 175 00:11:48.059 --> 00:11:52.179 find the right person. The real secret sauce, though, was that they 176 00:11:52.220 --> 00:11:54.940 had a really clear mission and focus for the school and it was easy to 177 00:11:56.059 --> 00:12:00.259 tie that focus to the right kind of person who had a very strong need 178 00:12:00.580 --> 00:12:03.330 for that kind of thing that wasn't well represented elsewhere, right. So that 179 00:12:03.490 --> 00:12:07.490 was the advantage of Bethany and I I knew it coming in that all I 180 00:12:07.570 --> 00:12:09.809 had to do is kind of like dusted off and like figure out how to 181 00:12:09.850 --> 00:12:13.529 get it in front of the right people. Not all colleges have, I 182 00:12:13.570 --> 00:12:16.639 would say, have it that easy. It's not like it was easy. 183 00:12:16.679 --> 00:12:20.360 It took work, but really clearer path. Yeah, but I do think 184 00:12:20.360 --> 00:12:24.879 it's important because I constantly tell people this because when I asked them, well, 185 00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:26.200 tell me what's unique about your school, they say, well, we 186 00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:30.509 have small class sizes, we were faith based, where you have community. 187 00:12:31.029 --> 00:12:33.190 I'm like, okay, that that separates you from, you know, one 188 00:12:33.309 --> 00:12:37.669 segment of higher education, but how does it segment you from every other school 189 00:12:37.669 --> 00:12:39.669 that can say the same thing? So I always try to really encourage people 190 00:12:39.750 --> 00:12:43.580 to really think about what are the distinctives that really we do better than anybody 191 00:12:43.620 --> 00:12:50.019 else, and whether that is preparing missionaries, whether that's it was discipleship, 192 00:12:50.340 --> 00:12:52.980 whether it's just about the way that you know where they're located, the geography. 193 00:12:52.980 --> 00:12:56.340 I mean how many? I'm working with the school right now that you 194 00:12:56.419 --> 00:13:01.610 know, is literally on the waterfront. I mean they're on a big intercoastal 195 00:13:01.009 --> 00:13:05.090 water front and you can get in a boat from their camp buss and go 196 00:13:05.129 --> 00:13:07.490 out to the Atlantic Ocean. How many campuses can say that? And so 197 00:13:09.210 --> 00:13:11.649 we've got it. You've really got a figure out how to grow where your 198 00:13:11.690 --> 00:13:13.720 planted, and I think that's really what you were leading into. Yeah, 199 00:13:13.799 --> 00:13:18.320 we're in Minnesota, so hard to advertise that. I play that down a 200 00:13:18.440 --> 00:13:22.320 lot. I wouldn't say Minnesota, I would say mini Apolis because it felt 201 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:24.600 a little bit more metropolitan, because people are like, isn't it cold up 202 00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:28.110 there? Like uh well, you know, it's only as cold as the 203 00:13:28.190 --> 00:13:33.190 the kind of jacket you wear it. It's seventy two and worlds right now. 204 00:13:33.309 --> 00:13:35.029 So weather, just bad, bad clothes and we'll help you find this 205 00:13:35.070 --> 00:13:39.029 stuff when you get here. Yeah, yeah, well, tell me a 206 00:13:39.029 --> 00:13:41.779 little bit about I mean just tactically and practically. I mean we try to 207 00:13:41.820 --> 00:13:43.179 be as pragmatic as we can here on the podcast, but I mean tell 208 00:13:43.220 --> 00:13:46.740 me a little bit about I mean, obviously you kind of you're new, 209 00:13:48.379 --> 00:13:50.139 you're going in, you know obviously Ken as a friend of yours, but 210 00:13:50.179 --> 00:13:52.019 at the same time you're going in and saying, Hey, I think we 211 00:13:52.100 --> 00:13:54.419 need to do this, I think we need to spend here, I think 212 00:13:54.419 --> 00:13:58.409 we need to start doing this. I mean there's obviously some risk that was 213 00:13:58.450 --> 00:14:00.450 going to be taken because, I mean, they weren't doing that before. 214 00:14:01.169 --> 00:14:03.850 And how how did you do that? I guess a lot of people might 215 00:14:03.889 --> 00:14:07.009 say, okay, I buy what you're saying, then I can get my 216 00:14:07.090 --> 00:14:09.320 head wrapped around that. But you know what, my boss isn't going to 217 00:14:09.559 --> 00:14:13.360 isn't just going to say, Oh yeah, let's just start jumping into this. 218 00:14:13.399 --> 00:14:16.600 Yep, I would try to find as many unique identifiers as possible and 219 00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:20.799 I would go hunting for them from your students over and over again. Like 220 00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:24.230 I would literally just try to go to students that are brand new, so 221 00:14:24.350 --> 00:14:28.710 the the ones that haven't been in your university and haven't been in doctorate and 222 00:14:28.830 --> 00:14:31.029 doctrinated yet by why they show up, because they all start to sound the 223 00:14:31.070 --> 00:14:35.789 same once they've been there a while. So finding people and you could call 224 00:14:35.909 --> 00:14:37.779 them, like the people that are planning on coming or they're really close to 225 00:14:37.820 --> 00:14:39.899 showing up, you could call them, but I find I usually just like 226 00:14:41.059 --> 00:14:43.779 to talk to them on arrival day and on campus preview weekend. Those guys 227 00:14:43.779 --> 00:14:46.620 are gold. And then I asked him like Oh, like, what special? 228 00:14:46.820 --> 00:14:50.299 What's special about this place? What special, like why would you come 229 00:14:50.379 --> 00:14:54.570 here versus somewhere else? And I try to look for the common thread of 230 00:14:54.649 --> 00:14:58.690 what they're talking about. What the answers they give me are literally wow. 231 00:14:58.730 --> 00:15:03.450 I start testing out messages when I has later on in facebook round on landing 232 00:15:03.490 --> 00:15:05.330 page, where I could split test. Okay, out of the five things 233 00:15:05.370 --> 00:15:09.879 that they're saying all the time that I think are actually pretty unique, or 234 00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:13.200 at lace they're telling me are unique, on which one, which one's the 235 00:15:13.240 --> 00:15:15.679 top one, which one should I put as the headline versus the other ones 236 00:15:15.720 --> 00:15:18.039 are supporting bullets or something like that, and I just test and test to 237 00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:22.429 figure out which one is the one that's the most attractive. So every school 238 00:15:22.429 --> 00:15:24.389 has something going for it. I mean you're already a school it's not like 239 00:15:24.470 --> 00:15:28.470 you're starting off as a start up and you have an unvalidated market. You 240 00:15:28.549 --> 00:15:31.870 have a market. You just most schools would do well just to Polish up 241 00:15:31.909 --> 00:15:35.299 what they have. That's already good and, like Bart like you were saying, 242 00:15:35.299 --> 00:15:39.259 sometimes it's the location. Sometimes you're in Colorado, and what more do 243 00:15:39.299 --> 00:15:41.740 you need to say? You know, times you're on an ocean, sometimes 244 00:15:41.779 --> 00:15:46.340 it's the region. Sometimes you're on an old farm in the mountain somewhere that 245 00:15:46.419 --> 00:15:50.009 just has a rustic coolness to it. Sometimes you have a specialty program that's 246 00:15:50.009 --> 00:15:54.529 kind of unique and hitting that as hard as possible. That's that's usually if 247 00:15:54.570 --> 00:15:58.210 if other schools talk to me and a couple of come my way just because 248 00:15:58.210 --> 00:16:02.049 they want to figure out what Bgu did to be successful, and this usually 249 00:16:02.090 --> 00:16:07.399 that I some giving is to help them find that thing tactically to I've learned 250 00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:10.480 that there's this term and B to be that is not at least I have 251 00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:12.080 I never heard it in higher red and I never heard it in the nonprofit 252 00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:18.080 world, called marketing ops. Marketing OPS is incredibly important. It's something we 253 00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:22.990 did really, really well at Bgu and that's one of the reasons why we 254 00:16:22.110 --> 00:16:26.029 were able to get so much done on such a small budget. Marketing OPS 255 00:16:26.190 --> 00:16:32.549 is essentially the evolution of marketing automation. Marketing Automation was the term a couple 256 00:16:32.590 --> 00:16:37.299 of years ago, but because marketing automations become so big, because marketing automations 257 00:16:37.419 --> 00:16:41.779 covered more than just marketing, now it's turned into marketing operations. I was 258 00:16:41.940 --> 00:16:48.610 really heavily involved in like the CRM, and actually that the whole crm and 259 00:16:48.690 --> 00:16:51.730 what the call center uses and the admissions team even uses all the way up 260 00:16:51.730 --> 00:16:56.970 until they register as students was heavily influenced from marketing. In fact, I'm 261 00:16:56.009 --> 00:17:00.049 the one who picked the CRM and put it in, actually started building it 262 00:17:00.090 --> 00:17:03.079 in place, and originally was just me building out even the workflowes for all 263 00:17:03.119 --> 00:17:07.799 the call center to like, follow up with students on. And we used, 264 00:17:07.960 --> 00:17:11.359 we use, actually use the small business crm for small schools. You 265 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:15.519 can get away with it. You don't have use popularly for your crm for 266 00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:19.589 marketing. If you're using something like Populi, let's be honest. Popular's made 267 00:17:19.670 --> 00:17:23.950 for student management, right, it's not made for marketing. So find a 268 00:17:25.230 --> 00:17:29.670 find a point where you can have a small business arm that costs way less 269 00:17:29.750 --> 00:17:33.140 but it's still doable even with the small, tiny budget. And use it 270 00:17:33.220 --> 00:17:37.539 because a small business, RM CRM's and marketing automation platforms are actually highly capable 271 00:17:37.539 --> 00:17:44.329 of doing very row sophisticated marketing campaigns. Like we used infusion soft and I 272 00:17:44.329 --> 00:17:48.930 highly recommended infusion soft is wonderful. It's more it's fairly robust for how much 273 00:17:48.930 --> 00:17:52.329 you pay for it. But even something like active campaign can almost do everything 274 00:17:52.369 --> 00:17:56.450 infusion soft can do an action. It's arguably a little easier to use. 275 00:17:56.450 --> 00:18:00.200 Hub spots fine too, but I find the price tag on up spots substantially 276 00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:03.200 more u should saw. So it kind of if you're at the budget where 277 00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:07.640 like I was at like starting hit Eightyzero a year. Yeah, it. 278 00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:11.079 Infusion soft is just fine. You can always transfer things over later. Yeah, 279 00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:15.509 and we've been we've come across one called lead squared, which also is 280 00:18:15.589 --> 00:18:18.710 is, you know, it's got that marketing ops in it. It's crm 281 00:18:18.789 --> 00:18:19.910 and everything, and I've there's a lot of them out there and I think 282 00:18:19.910 --> 00:18:22.470 it's just a matter of, you know, getting beyond the fact that, 283 00:18:22.549 --> 00:18:26.309 okay, I can't afford slate or I can't afford, you know, some 284 00:18:26.430 --> 00:18:29.940 of these big you know giant ones that you know sales force or other things, 285 00:18:30.019 --> 00:18:33.660 but they are out there, small business crms and marketing ops. I 286 00:18:33.700 --> 00:18:37.380 think is a really good point. Then you kind of talked a little bit 287 00:18:37.380 --> 00:18:38.740 about I want to go back at just for a second on you know, 288 00:18:38.779 --> 00:18:41.250 when you talked about the social proof, you know, being able to have 289 00:18:41.490 --> 00:18:45.170 these students come in on preview day or day one and just kind of give 290 00:18:45.170 --> 00:18:48.410 you a little bit of the raw data that you kind of crafted some of 291 00:18:48.450 --> 00:18:52.490 your messaging. I have to believe that some of that too, that they 292 00:18:52.569 --> 00:18:56.839 were providing to you, was either seeds for content or other elements within the 293 00:18:56.960 --> 00:19:03.400 marketing program I mean, obviously you did more than just do messaging and paper 294 00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:04.759 Click ads, and I know that you know, following you and some of 295 00:19:04.759 --> 00:19:07.519 the conversations that we've had, I know you're a big believer in content marketing. 296 00:19:07.559 --> 00:19:11.589 Talk a little bit about that, because you might even kind of reference 297 00:19:11.710 --> 00:19:15.190 that blog that you and I talked about at once that you know that you've 298 00:19:15.309 --> 00:19:18.029 been building out with. I think it's a different organization, but the idea 299 00:19:18.109 --> 00:19:22.069 that you're ranking higher on that blog than maybe some ones that people would expect. 300 00:19:22.430 --> 00:19:26.700 So that was something that came in later. I would say the tripling 301 00:19:26.819 --> 00:19:30.019 of the school mainly, like eighty percent of that really came off the back 302 00:19:30.059 --> 00:19:36.660 of like add words, facebook ads and just a well crafted like conversion right, 303 00:19:37.140 --> 00:19:41.529 like Very Russell, Br Branson, Branson Brunson kind of style funnel, 304 00:19:41.369 --> 00:19:44.970 probably a little nicer than as as far as like how it looks though, 305 00:19:45.009 --> 00:19:48.130 direct, direct marketing kind of stuff, but like with a little bit more 306 00:19:48.250 --> 00:19:52.279 brand and visual emphasis, because we're talking about young people. So I don't 307 00:19:52.279 --> 00:19:56.240 want to look to direct marketing. So that was most of it. But 308 00:19:56.319 --> 00:20:00.200 the whole time I knew that, like you don't want to depend only on 309 00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:03.960 like PPC to drive all your growth, right, because we were like search 310 00:20:04.559 --> 00:20:11.269 facebook ads were ferrals. I'm like, if we lose facebook ads were in 311 00:20:11.430 --> 00:20:15.549 trouble and facebook's you know, facebook's young and kind of reckless in my opinion, 312 00:20:15.589 --> 00:20:18.390 and honestly, like because of the stuff apples done. Now that's like 313 00:20:18.470 --> 00:20:21.150 kind of dying out. Now, like facebook ads are not as nearly as 314 00:20:21.190 --> 00:20:22.700 effective as they used to be. So a couple of years ago we started 315 00:20:22.740 --> 00:20:27.220 putting an initiative and putting an emphasis on search engine optimization and I believe blogging 316 00:20:27.259 --> 00:20:30.220 can be a lot more than search engine optimization. It could be for social 317 00:20:30.380 --> 00:20:34.220 it could be to answer frequently ask questions right. A good blog post about 318 00:20:34.220 --> 00:20:37.849 it. You know, have good testimonials for different questions, for different stages 319 00:20:37.890 --> 00:20:41.369 of the fun funnel, different types of people. Blog post serve a lot 320 00:20:41.369 --> 00:20:45.250 of purpose and we did a lot of those, a lot of the people's 321 00:20:45.250 --> 00:20:48.690 favorite things. We would craft hold pages around and hold blog posts around if 322 00:20:48.730 --> 00:20:53.480 they were coming here because of our tuition paid program. You right at Bgu 323 00:20:53.960 --> 00:20:57.599 you don't pay tuition. It's very unique. Actually. That was I had 324 00:20:57.640 --> 00:21:00.720 to bury that a little bit in the funnel because it was a little bit 325 00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:02.759 too good to be true for some people. So I had to let them 326 00:21:02.759 --> 00:21:04.950 discover that on their own because if I then add they'd be like I don't 327 00:21:04.950 --> 00:21:10.470 believe you. It's like no, it's true, you still pay room and 328 00:21:10.549 --> 00:21:12.309 board, but no, you don't pay tuition. So we did all that. 329 00:21:12.549 --> 00:21:15.789 But yes, the SEO did start to pick up and I actually learned 330 00:21:17.589 --> 00:21:21.460 Seo from mainly, I can't say one person, it's really two people, 331 00:21:21.900 --> 00:21:25.900 but one, one company, one youtube channel, when I discovered their model 332 00:21:26.099 --> 00:21:30.380 on how to do search engine optimization, which was kind of antibacklink and really 333 00:21:30.460 --> 00:21:34.369 just produce the best content for the this search. Search queries, like our 334 00:21:34.569 --> 00:21:38.170 SEO game took off and we got so good at it so fast that we 335 00:21:38.329 --> 00:21:44.210 did. We were pump publishing a ton of different blog posts on Bethany Guedu 336 00:21:44.529 --> 00:21:47.089 to rank for all the missions key words. But I realized with the team 337 00:21:47.130 --> 00:21:51.519 of students, I could write blogs at a rate of ten to twenty articles 338 00:21:51.519 --> 00:21:55.559 a week that were rankworthy. And because of that we're like, well, 339 00:21:55.599 --> 00:21:59.119 let's just start a whole new site, still a Bgu site, but it's 340 00:21:59.119 --> 00:22:03.630 called just disciplecom and we started like hammering every Christian topic we could possibly find 341 00:22:03.670 --> 00:22:08.829 or think of. Now that site probably reached two hundred and fifty thousand page 342 00:22:08.829 --> 00:22:12.349 views this last month, or maybe two hundred and sixty. But and now 343 00:22:12.470 --> 00:22:15.630 I'm like having a vision to like, Oh, what does it take to 344 00:22:15.670 --> 00:22:18.619 get a million, because that's where we're shooting for now. We had, 345 00:22:18.819 --> 00:22:21.579 we probably we're close to land and a grant so that I can hire a 346 00:22:21.700 --> 00:22:25.420 person do nothing but focus on that website to take it there. That's kind 347 00:22:25.420 --> 00:22:29.740 of what we've used there and own to mention the person where I learned Seo 348 00:22:29.819 --> 00:22:33.049 from and I would recommend anybody who like, if you want to learn Seo 349 00:22:33.130 --> 00:22:37.170 Yourself. It's they seem like to just dudes from Idaho figured out that you 350 00:22:37.250 --> 00:22:41.569 can do it without doing any backlinks or any offsite optimization, and they're called 351 00:22:41.609 --> 00:22:45.960 income school. It's a youtube channel. They do have a like a fairly 352 00:22:45.039 --> 00:22:49.240 inexpensive program that they really just teach bloggers how to rank and how to make 353 00:22:49.279 --> 00:22:53.680 an income via blogging right and it's probably the most reliable system I've seen. 354 00:22:53.720 --> 00:22:57.630 I actually test it on a personal blog and now my personal blog even gets 355 00:22:57.950 --> 00:23:00.670 k visits a month on the few blood post that I've written there. But 356 00:23:00.789 --> 00:23:04.630 if you actually get a writer on it and start using their methodology, I 357 00:23:04.789 --> 00:23:07.950 even use it as sweet fish. I even use it for customers now of 358 00:23:08.150 --> 00:23:11.309 sweet fish media who want to figure out how to craft good blogs that are 359 00:23:11.309 --> 00:23:15.779 rank worthy out of their podcasts. It's of the utilizing their methodology. They 360 00:23:15.819 --> 00:23:18.779 have a couple of different things that are unique to them compared to like most 361 00:23:18.859 --> 00:23:22.299 the Seo people out there, and I find that it's actually just approachable and 362 00:23:22.380 --> 00:23:27.930 easier to implement than all the other seo crazy stuff that's out there. So 363 00:23:29.650 --> 00:23:33.049 that's been a big deal to try to offset the traffic that we were depending 364 00:23:33.130 --> 00:23:36.930 on from facebook ads. We're trying to versify that a bit and we have 365 00:23:36.970 --> 00:23:41.049 a couple different avenues we're doing that on, like influencer marketing partnerships, but 366 00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:45.359 building up justiceciple as a massive site that we could then, you know, 367 00:23:45.559 --> 00:23:48.519 nurture the relationship down to the ones who want to go on mission trips to 368 00:23:48.680 --> 00:23:52.240 feed into Bgu. That's great. What was the name of that Youtube Channel 369 00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:56.349 again? Income School? Okay, income school, thank you, and their 370 00:23:56.390 --> 00:24:00.990 websites income schoolcom. It's antastic resource. Great. Well, I think that 371 00:24:02.789 --> 00:24:06.430 obviously this has been a really great conversation. One question I had and I 372 00:24:06.869 --> 00:24:08.470 know the answer, but I wanted to kind of make sure that everybody else 373 00:24:08.509 --> 00:24:11.819 understands. You mean, you're you're a voracious reader and I'm guessing that you 374 00:24:11.900 --> 00:24:17.019 do the same thing not only with books but also online and with youtube videos 375 00:24:17.059 --> 00:24:19.940 and just you're consuming content all the time. Tell us a little bit about 376 00:24:19.980 --> 00:24:22.700 that, I mean how how does that come about, and tell me about 377 00:24:22.700 --> 00:24:26.490 your kind of your methodology on that, because I mean obviously a lot of 378 00:24:26.609 --> 00:24:32.490 what you're doing you have learned on the job. To say per se from 379 00:24:32.650 --> 00:24:37.450 all these experts. Actually, my journey didn't start in college. I actually 380 00:24:37.049 --> 00:24:41.920 went right into a Christian internship and then just worked and then later went to 381 00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:45.160 community college and dropped out because I just I hated school, which is funny 382 00:24:45.160 --> 00:24:48.599 to say as a higher atte marketer, but I hate knowledge. I later 383 00:24:48.759 --> 00:24:52.200 went back to school, but if I would have gone to school right out 384 00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:53.309 of high school, I would have been an artist and if I would have 385 00:24:53.309 --> 00:24:56.549 gone to school two years after gone to school, I would have been a 386 00:24:56.549 --> 00:24:59.990 graphic designer. So I'm glad actually waited and worked and found the thing that 387 00:25:00.069 --> 00:25:02.829 I really loved, and I really love marketing. I don't know what it 388 00:25:02.990 --> 00:25:06.670 is. It's just so flexible. There's so many applications for it, it's 389 00:25:06.670 --> 00:25:11.740 so helpful, it's so needed. It's also very profitable, but it's creative, 390 00:25:11.779 --> 00:25:14.299 it's fun, it's different from day. Today I get to work with 391 00:25:14.339 --> 00:25:17.700 people. I get to work with people on Linkedin all the time and have 392 00:25:17.859 --> 00:25:19.660 podcasts like this with you guys here. It's so much fun. I can't 393 00:25:19.660 --> 00:25:22.170 believe I get paid to do this every day. You know. So I 394 00:25:22.529 --> 00:25:26.049 love, I fell in love with marketing and I found that because I hadn't 395 00:25:26.049 --> 00:25:30.170 gone to school. I had to learn how to learn marketing and it started 396 00:25:30.210 --> 00:25:34.210 with me just asking for book recommendations, reading it and testing out stuff, 397 00:25:34.210 --> 00:25:37.240 and that became kind of the model. I would read a book in the 398 00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:40.359 evening or early mornings and then go test it out in the day job, 399 00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:42.920 as I was moving into marketing slowly in my career. Kind of started as 400 00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:48.319 the designer and were worked into web design and then digital marketing and then just 401 00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:53.109 full on marketing, and I found that I would just get really excited about 402 00:25:53.109 --> 00:25:56.549 one topic and then hammered as much as possible and in a short season wake 403 00:25:56.589 --> 00:26:00.390 up really early for a couple of months in a row, read and then 404 00:26:00.509 --> 00:26:03.829 experiment during the day. And it was different topics at different times. It 405 00:26:03.950 --> 00:26:07.980 started with like web building websites and then it went to add words and then 406 00:26:07.019 --> 00:26:11.380 it went to a conversion rate optimization. I started playing around with free tools 407 00:26:11.460 --> 00:26:17.019 there and some cheap paid tools. I have a background and just working at 408 00:26:17.059 --> 00:26:21.849 nonprofits and startups, which are like always underfunded, so I never had a 409 00:26:21.890 --> 00:26:26.089 lot of money to go and learn take massive classes or more than maybe maybe, 410 00:26:26.089 --> 00:26:30.289 if I was lucky, a thousand dollar conference, and that's including like 411 00:26:30.450 --> 00:26:34.759 travel and stuff. So I never really had a lot of like expensive resources, 412 00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:37.000 but just through books, in the amount of stuff that's online, you 413 00:26:37.039 --> 00:26:41.279 can learn just about anything. I was also benefit. I would suck dry 414 00:26:41.319 --> 00:26:44.519 any meant any boss I had that knew more than I did, like I 415 00:26:44.559 --> 00:26:47.509 would also like get everything I can, like tell me everything you know, 416 00:26:48.390 --> 00:26:52.190 like if they had a specialty in pr or media or anything. I'd also 417 00:26:52.230 --> 00:26:56.390 try to learn everything I could from each person I work for worked with. 418 00:26:56.069 --> 00:26:59.670 So it was just a very voracious learner, even though I wasn't really a 419 00:26:59.750 --> 00:27:02.779 fan of higher ad I did eventually go back to college and then earn my 420 00:27:02.980 --> 00:27:06.380 BS and marketing in my Mba, but that's great. It was only after 421 00:27:06.460 --> 00:27:08.819 learning the subjects and then I went back to school or took the test. 422 00:27:10.859 --> 00:27:15.220 Very good. This has been great, Dan. We into each episode and 423 00:27:15.339 --> 00:27:18.369 you've given us so much, but if there was one piece of advice you 424 00:27:18.450 --> 00:27:25.329 would give, maybe a size school similar to Begu that they could implement right 425 00:27:25.410 --> 00:27:29.569 away that you feel that could be very impactful. What advice would that be? 426 00:27:30.119 --> 00:27:32.279 I think they think that made us successful, as I was able to 427 00:27:32.319 --> 00:27:37.200 do a lot with a little because I didn't outsource much you and if you 428 00:27:37.319 --> 00:27:40.319 have to be really strategic, if you outsource a little bit, like you 429 00:27:40.480 --> 00:27:44.200 probably only have enough money to outsource one thing, outsource the thing that you're 430 00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:48.109 least competent in, and then everything else you kind of have to like learn 431 00:27:48.150 --> 00:27:52.430 or become competent in. So outsource your your thing that's the hardest for you. 432 00:27:52.829 --> 00:27:56.349 That's good, and then the next probably I'd whatever is like the best, 433 00:27:56.630 --> 00:28:00.859 like you're already leaning towards, like double down on that and learn everything 434 00:28:00.859 --> 00:28:03.500 you can about that and then start a stair step at learn one thing at 435 00:28:03.539 --> 00:28:06.859 a time. Like you might not have enough time to do SEO, but 436 00:28:06.980 --> 00:28:12.210 do you already have a capability of testing up messaging? And I would get 437 00:28:12.210 --> 00:28:15.690 if you're want to write more and your kind of already a word smithing kind 438 00:28:15.730 --> 00:28:21.009 of person, then you should explore conversion rate optimization. Is probably the single 439 00:28:21.009 --> 00:28:23.049 biggest thing you can start doing with your website to increase your leads, you 440 00:28:23.130 --> 00:28:26.809 know, and that's where you split test your even your home page to see 441 00:28:26.849 --> 00:28:30.119 which one gets a bigger a better bounce rate, having running all your ads 442 00:28:30.200 --> 00:28:34.400 and things to a single landing page, so you can actually test what you 443 00:28:34.480 --> 00:28:37.799 should be saying, because you can find out and learn faster there what's actually 444 00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:41.269 working, then random pages on your website, if you drive everybody to a 445 00:28:41.309 --> 00:28:45.349 singular page with the only thing they can do is request the brochure, and 446 00:28:45.430 --> 00:28:48.869 I do recommend specifically the call to Action for any higher at institution should be 447 00:28:48.910 --> 00:28:52.990 the request the brochure. I've tried out a bunch of different things. I 448 00:28:52.029 --> 00:28:55.269 don't know what it is. People like to get the brochure in the mail 449 00:28:55.349 --> 00:28:59.619 and that's just another touch point that you can like follow up with them with, 450 00:28:59.740 --> 00:29:03.819 but I always ask for email, phone number, brochure for name, 451 00:29:03.819 --> 00:29:07.019 last name, Undergrad Grad and what their high school graduation did is. I've 452 00:29:07.059 --> 00:29:10.410 worked with a lot of different fields, though. That is the money right 453 00:29:10.450 --> 00:29:12.250 there was for us and that, if I started at a new school today, 454 00:29:12.250 --> 00:29:15.490 those are the exact things I would ask again, because with that you 455 00:29:15.529 --> 00:29:18.210 kind of have enough dated to get going and then you can figure out the 456 00:29:18.289 --> 00:29:22.529 rest later on. I would also stop spending money at trade shows. I 457 00:29:22.609 --> 00:29:26.279 don't know, I've not seen one college it's like, yeah, we're killing 458 00:29:26.319 --> 00:29:27.440 it. Maybe. Okay, I take it back. I can think of 459 00:29:27.559 --> 00:29:32.039 one college that is killed it with the trade show and it's only because they're 460 00:29:32.119 --> 00:29:34.839 big. They have a big budget and they dominate the trade show, not 461 00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:37.910 only with the biggest booth, but they have all their professors out in the 462 00:29:38.029 --> 00:29:42.950 like in the sessions. And that's midwestern seminary in Kansas City. I know 463 00:29:44.029 --> 00:29:45.470 they're killing it through that so they can, they can afford to do a 464 00:29:45.549 --> 00:29:49.829 whole takeover of a conference and get all their people out there so they can 465 00:29:49.869 --> 00:29:52.819 influence the pastors who are the ones who recommend where to go for seminary. 466 00:29:53.420 --> 00:29:57.779 But in in formost a beach schools. I feel like you really have to 467 00:29:57.819 --> 00:30:02.140 learn how to move on to digital. I don't I don't understand if you 468 00:30:02.220 --> 00:30:04.339 just do a cost analysis on trade shows and just show like how much you 469 00:30:04.420 --> 00:30:07.250 spent on it versus how many leads you get. Then you have your cost 470 00:30:07.289 --> 00:30:14.490 per acquisition for lead and it's usually outrageous, like just outrageous. Even if 471 00:30:14.529 --> 00:30:18.130 you're bad at facebook adds that it's even if with this is not great as 472 00:30:18.210 --> 00:30:21.410 facebook ads currently is, you're probably going to get a better conversion rate than 473 00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:25.079 that, even in the beginning. You might also try pinterest. Interest is 474 00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:30.000 actually not bad. I think you just led into the next topic for when 475 00:30:30.039 --> 00:30:33.279 we have you back on the podcast. Thank you so much, Dan, 476 00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:37.269 and I think you're an excellent follow. How do you prefer people to either 477 00:30:37.349 --> 00:30:41.349 contact you or work? Can they follow you linkedin all day every day. 478 00:30:41.430 --> 00:30:45.710 I'm very active on Linkedin, which is how the three of US started really 479 00:30:45.190 --> 00:30:52.140 talking right. So go to linkedincom iron digital marketing. Dan, you'll find 480 00:30:52.140 --> 00:30:55.339 me there. Shoot me a connector request. I'd love to connect in your 481 00:30:55.380 --> 00:30:56.779 Hashtag, Danchez, I think, is another one that they could follow. 482 00:30:56.819 --> 00:31:00.579 Dan Chez. Yep, you can follow the Hashtag. I'm like, I'm 483 00:31:00.660 --> 00:31:06.130 working on DANCHEZCOM. It's coming soon. It's very good. Love it, 484 00:31:06.490 --> 00:31:10.289 love it. Thanks again, Dan. Are Any partying words from you? 485 00:31:10.930 --> 00:31:12.730 Yeah, I just think that I think a lot of what Dan has talked 486 00:31:12.730 --> 00:31:17.529 about has been so applicable to just about any size school. I mean, 487 00:31:17.569 --> 00:31:21.480 I think a lot of what he said was specific to Association of Biblical Higher 488 00:31:21.480 --> 00:31:25.359 Education, the Abah that we've been referring to, those small Bible schools and 489 00:31:25.400 --> 00:31:29.279 seminaries, but I think a lot of what Dan said is also applicable to, 490 00:31:29.920 --> 00:31:33.509 you know, a marketing department of the major university, Public University. 491 00:31:33.549 --> 00:31:37.670 I think there's a lot of things that figure out what's going on. Test, 492 00:31:37.950 --> 00:31:41.630 test, test, understand your particular market and I also understand what's distinctive 493 00:31:41.670 --> 00:31:45.349 about you that's going to move the needle, and I think all those things 494 00:31:45.390 --> 00:31:48.819 are really applicable to just about anyone, and so I would just just really 495 00:31:48.859 --> 00:31:51.099 kind of encourage you to take a look at that as well as be just 496 00:31:51.220 --> 00:31:55.579 that lifelong learner. I think that we all know that marketing moves at the 497 00:31:55.619 --> 00:31:59.299 speed of light right now, and so the more you can learn, the 498 00:31:59.380 --> 00:32:00.690 more you can pay attention and the more that you can kind of lean in 499 00:32:00.809 --> 00:32:04.289 and kind of see what other people are talking about. I mean, that's 500 00:32:04.289 --> 00:32:07.970 one of the reasons I really like to follow Dan on Linkedin with his with 501 00:32:07.130 --> 00:32:10.089 his comments that he's so generous to do on a daily basis, is that 502 00:32:10.730 --> 00:32:14.849 I'm seeing things that maybe I didn't know about. I'm learning things that I 503 00:32:14.890 --> 00:32:19.240 didn't understand, and we've got to do that together these days, because the 504 00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:23.160 idea of being able to either go take a class on something is those days 505 00:32:23.200 --> 00:32:25.519 are gone, and so we've got to kind of take control of our own 506 00:32:25.519 --> 00:32:29.880 learning and figure out things and lean into that. So those are just a 507 00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:31.990 couple of thoughts. I have tried. Thank you, Bart. Well said, 508 00:32:32.190 --> 00:32:37.829 this was an excellent conversation. This podcast, the High Ed Marketer, 509 00:32:37.190 --> 00:32:43.990 is sponsored by Taylor solutions and education, marketing and branding agency and by think 510 00:32:44.029 --> 00:32:47.339 patent. It a marketing, execution, printing and mailing provider of high it 511 00:32:47.460 --> 00:32:52.940 solutions. On behalf of Bart and myself, thank you for joining us. 512 00:32:54.460 --> 00:32:59.329 You've been listening to the Higher Ed Marketer. To ensure that you never miss 513 00:32:59.369 --> 00:33:04.009 an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you're 514 00:33:04.049 --> 00:33:07.490 listening with apple PODCASTS, we'd love for you to leave a quick rating of 515 00:33:07.569 --> 00:33:10.410 the show. Simply tap the number of stars you think the podcast deserves. 516 00:33:10.450 --> 00:33:12.960 Until next time.