Finding Donors and a Shrinking Higher Education Market

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:05.599 One of the things that we are hearing from our alumni who are working church 2 00:00:05.679 --> 00:00:13.349 pastors is they are overwhelmed just trying to get people back to church. You 3 00:00:13.429 --> 00:00:17.710 are listening to the Higher Ed Marketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals in 4 00:00:17.750 --> 00:00:22.859 higher education. This show will tackle all sorts of questions related to student recruitment, 5 00:00:23.140 --> 00:00:27.579 don'tor relations, marketing trends, new technologies and so much more. If 6 00:00:27.620 --> 00:00:31.859 you are looking for conversations centered around where the industry is going, this podcast 7 00:00:31.899 --> 00:00:41.409 is for you. Let's get into the show. Welcome to the HIRRID marketer 8 00:00:41.570 --> 00:00:45.530 podcast. I'm troy singer, along with my cohost and total tamer, Mark 9 00:00:45.609 --> 00:00:51.200 Taylor. Today we talked to Joe EMMIC and Shane Nichols from Garrett Evangelical Theological 10 00:00:51.240 --> 00:00:56.159 Seminary About Grad School marketing. Yeah, Troy, this was a good conversation. 11 00:00:56.240 --> 00:01:00.799 I think that there's so many different schools are relying. Either there their 12 00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:06.790 graduate schools and seminaries alone, like like Garrett is, or they are the 13 00:01:06.909 --> 00:01:10.709 graduate and the graduate programs are, you know, and a thend them to 14 00:01:11.269 --> 00:01:14.829 colleges and universities and a lot of a lot of schools are using those to 15 00:01:14.909 --> 00:01:19.219 kind of bolster up and kind of impact the bottom line. And I think 16 00:01:19.260 --> 00:01:23.420 one of the good conversations that we had today was just about the uniqueness of 17 00:01:23.500 --> 00:01:29.739 being able to market and do communications for graduate level schools, whether it's a 18 00:01:29.739 --> 00:01:32.739 seminary, whether it's your graduate school of Medicine or whatever it might be. 19 00:01:33.409 --> 00:01:36.329 But I think there's a unique aspect of how to market that not only for 20 00:01:36.450 --> 00:01:40.409 enrollment standpoint, but also communicate it for development. So it's a really good 21 00:01:40.409 --> 00:01:45.129 conversation to hear how Joe, the Vice President of development, works really closely 22 00:01:45.170 --> 00:01:49.319 with Shane Nichols, who's the director of marketing at Garrett. Thanks part. 23 00:01:49.719 --> 00:01:56.200 Let's get into the conversation with Shane and Joe. It is my pleasure to 24 00:01:56.280 --> 00:02:00.510 welcome Joe EMMIC and Shane Nichols to the High Ed Marketer podcast. They are 25 00:02:00.590 --> 00:02:06.950 coming to us from Garrett Evangelical Theological Seminary. And Gentlemen, if I one 26 00:02:07.030 --> 00:02:12.310 of you would just give us a brief overview of Garrett and then individually, 27 00:02:12.349 --> 00:02:15.819 if you can tell us your roles. Sure, Garrett even jolical hide seminary. 28 00:02:15.819 --> 00:02:21.500 We are founded in one thousand eight hundred fifty three and we reside smackdab 29 00:02:21.539 --> 00:02:24.340 in the middle of the campus of northwestern university in Evanston Illinois. We and 30 00:02:24.460 --> 00:02:30.210 essence grew up together. We do maintain our own identity and our own faculty, 31 00:02:30.610 --> 00:02:34.729 but share a lot of resources with northwestern university and our primary objective is 32 00:02:34.849 --> 00:02:40.289 to prepare religious and faith leaders for Ministry and the Church and in the academy 33 00:02:40.490 --> 00:02:45.240 and the world. So a variety of ministry setting and what have you. 34 00:02:45.840 --> 00:02:49.719 Thank you, Shane. And how many students do you currently serve? We 35 00:02:49.960 --> 00:02:53.479 serve on average about four hundred students a year. Thank you, and we 36 00:02:53.599 --> 00:02:55.759 are speaking to Shane. What is your role at Garrett? Sure? I 37 00:02:55.840 --> 00:03:01.430 am the Chief Marketing Communications Officer at Gary Evangelical. This is actually this months 38 00:03:01.509 --> 00:03:06.189 my seventeen year. Starting my seventeen year here at the seminary and when I 39 00:03:06.270 --> 00:03:08.710 started I was doing a lot in the LUMB relations and development and in two 40 00:03:08.750 --> 00:03:14.340 thousand and ten started heading up the marketing and communications office and have been in 41 00:03:14.419 --> 00:03:17.219 that role ever since. Thank you, Shane. We also have JOE EMMIC 42 00:03:17.340 --> 00:03:21.419 with us. Hello, Joe, I try high bar. Good to see 43 00:03:21.419 --> 00:03:24.379 you guys again. Thank you great seeing you with you could let the listeners 44 00:03:24.500 --> 00:03:29.849 know what your role is and then we'll get started with the conversation. Sure, 45 00:03:30.330 --> 00:03:35.330 I serve the seminary as the vice president for development and that entails all 46 00:03:35.569 --> 00:03:42.159 the traditional roles and responsibilities that someone responsible for fundraising and alumni engagement has a 47 00:03:42.280 --> 00:03:46.560 higher education. I have been in a higher at advancement work for almost twenty 48 00:03:46.639 --> 00:03:52.879 five years. But while Shane is one of Garrett's grizzled veterans, I'm a 49 00:03:52.919 --> 00:03:57.110 relatively new addition to the team. I've been with Garrett for three and a 50 00:03:57.110 --> 00:04:00.229 half years. Great and just just so everybody knows, that Joe and I 51 00:04:00.349 --> 00:04:04.030 have worked together before. We known each other for several years and so it's 52 00:04:04.030 --> 00:04:06.389 good to good to get back together with you. Joe. Thanks for being 53 00:04:06.430 --> 00:04:10.300 on the show. I think when we've first talking, you know, before 54 00:04:10.300 --> 00:04:13.939 we got onto the recording, talking a little bit about, I think, 55 00:04:14.180 --> 00:04:16.660 Garrett and seminaries in general, and I don't want it. I don't want 56 00:04:16.660 --> 00:04:20.220 people to think about, Oh, this is just a podcast about seminaries, 57 00:04:20.300 --> 00:04:24.259 but it's actually a little bit broader because I think one of the challenges that 58 00:04:24.290 --> 00:04:28.810 a lot of schools have is that whether you're a seminary, a graduate school 59 00:04:28.810 --> 00:04:31.730 or even a small private. There's a challenge because the market seems to be 60 00:04:31.810 --> 00:04:35.250 getting smaller and shrinking. Sometimes our audiences do, and so one of the 61 00:04:35.250 --> 00:04:40.000 things that I wanted to just kind of start the conversation about is how are 62 00:04:40.000 --> 00:04:43.120 you at Garrett? You know both Shane and Joe. How are you both 63 00:04:43.199 --> 00:04:47.079 kind of addressing this idea of a shrinking market and shrieking audiences? Because, 64 00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:51.399 I mean, it's happening everywhere. Yeah, absolutely certainly happening everywhere, and 65 00:04:51.680 --> 00:04:56.949 I'll signs at this point in time keep pointing that it will only get smaller. 66 00:04:57.350 --> 00:05:00.389 So the challenges are real and something we take a look at. The 67 00:05:00.870 --> 00:05:05.189 biggest thing for us that we do is events, and what I mean by 68 00:05:05.269 --> 00:05:09.220 that is how, you know, how do we get the institution in front 69 00:05:09.220 --> 00:05:13.699 of people that may not even know that Garrett is a thing right? And 70 00:05:13.860 --> 00:05:17.500 so, from our development stance, we spend a lot of efforts on ministry 71 00:05:17.500 --> 00:05:20.970 Sundays, which is an opportunity to be able to, you know, honor 72 00:05:21.009 --> 00:05:27.449 a particular alum or pastor so that we can then introduce the seminary to congregations 73 00:05:27.610 --> 00:05:30.329 from the admission side of the House. This last fall we've hosted five different 74 00:05:30.370 --> 00:05:36.319 events that we're all hybrid online events to be able to introduce perspective new students, 75 00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:40.439 and so for us it's about getting the institution in front of people and 76 00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:44.720 doing so with engaging content and events is one of the primary ways that we've 77 00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:48.680 really been able to go at that to expand our audience. And then, 78 00:05:48.720 --> 00:05:51.870 of course we're doing all the traditional things you would expect from a marketing office 79 00:05:53.310 --> 00:05:58.149 and the way of paid advertising, social media and engaging content, stories, 80 00:05:58.230 --> 00:06:00.790 website creation, all those good fun things that you would expect to do, 81 00:06:00.870 --> 00:06:04.459 and so so we do a lot of that on top of trying to just 82 00:06:05.139 --> 00:06:09.660 tell the story to any and everybody. That's great and I guess I would 83 00:06:09.660 --> 00:06:12.459 ask you joke, as I'm gonna here in what Shane is saying is that 84 00:06:13.019 --> 00:06:15.740 you know a lot of times you're kind of going, I like to call 85 00:06:15.819 --> 00:06:17.970 it the watering holes that your perspective, perspective audiences is, whether it's your 86 00:06:18.009 --> 00:06:23.529 prospective students or prospective donors. I love the fact that you know the watering 87 00:06:23.569 --> 00:06:27.129 hole for Garrett seems to be these churches that you can do these ministry Sundays 88 00:06:27.170 --> 00:06:30.370 or ways to honor some of your alumnist has that been a successful strategy as 89 00:06:30.370 --> 00:06:35.160 far as these watering holes joke. Historically, the ministry Sundays Shane described have 90 00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:43.240 been incredibly successful for us. So the way they work is we identify alumni 91 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:46.790 who are pastors in milestone years or their ministry. It's almost like a class 92 00:06:46.829 --> 00:06:53.829 reunion list and we take nominations for them to be honored with a ministry Sunday. 93 00:06:53.829 --> 00:06:57.829 It's really honoring somebody, for example, who's had a very effective ministry 94 00:06:57.870 --> 00:07:02.139 for twenty five years or thirty years. The seminary then establish as a scholarship 95 00:07:02.339 --> 00:07:08.139 in that person's name. We put in the first thousand dollars and then we 96 00:07:08.300 --> 00:07:13.060 invite members of the congregation to contribute to the scholar Orship Fund. We have 97 00:07:13.420 --> 00:07:18.730 over six hundred individual and dowed scholarship funds guaranty evangelical and a good number of 98 00:07:18.850 --> 00:07:25.329 those were started through these ministry Sunday programs. The challenge we have Right now 99 00:07:25.649 --> 00:07:30.680 is with ministry Sundays is really covid related. So one of the things that 100 00:07:30.920 --> 00:07:36.480 we are hearing from how our alumni who are working church pastors is they are 101 00:07:36.480 --> 00:07:42.120 overwhelmed just trying to get people back to church. So even as churches reopened 102 00:07:42.800 --> 00:07:47.430 people sort of liked online church and people have continued to attend church online rather 103 00:07:47.470 --> 00:07:54.189 than coming back to the pews. Pastors are reluctant to bring in any sort 104 00:07:54.230 --> 00:08:00.139 of outside endeavor at this point. So where we in the past maybe did 105 00:08:00.139 --> 00:08:03.019 anywhere from six to eight of these in a year, where maybe doing two 106 00:08:03.060 --> 00:08:07.060 or three or four this year. I'm hopeful that will change in the spring. 107 00:08:07.660 --> 00:08:11.860 So historically it's been successful. It's been a great way to identify new 108 00:08:11.930 --> 00:08:16.529 donors and the last year or so it's been a little more difficult just because 109 00:08:16.529 --> 00:08:20.129 of the access to churches, because of COVID. And I guess, Shane, 110 00:08:20.129 --> 00:08:24.490 are you finding opportunities even from an enrollment standpoint at some of these Sundays 111 00:08:24.490 --> 00:08:30.079 as well? Yes, we have. It's it's a great opportunity to do 112 00:08:30.160 --> 00:08:35.639 some crossover between the work of development and admissions and enrollment. So so there's 113 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:39.279 definitely a possibilities there. I will say, to go back to original question, 114 00:08:39.399 --> 00:08:43.110 we also, of course, we spend a lot of time working with 115 00:08:43.230 --> 00:08:48.070 a lums and they our biggest influencers time and time again. So we hear 116 00:08:48.190 --> 00:08:54.230 often from our current students. You know why, Garrett, and often, 117 00:08:54.269 --> 00:08:56.740 time and time again, they will say because an a lum said, go 118 00:08:56.899 --> 00:08:58.500 check out Garrett. So so we spend a lot of time and effort there 119 00:08:58.539 --> 00:09:01.700 and so then with these ministry Sundays, being able to honor a lum's it 120 00:09:01.820 --> 00:09:07.179 just helps that cycle of potential students come through. So so that piece has 121 00:09:07.179 --> 00:09:11.129 been great for us. Yeah, it's a little bit of a the classic 122 00:09:11.250 --> 00:09:13.450 networking in a lot of ways. I mean it's the idea of who knows 123 00:09:13.490 --> 00:09:18.330 who and how can you connect those people together, and I'm sure that your 124 00:09:18.370 --> 00:09:22.450 other marketing plays into that, whether it's paper, click or or digital or 125 00:09:22.490 --> 00:09:24.360 other things, that you've got a brand awareness that you're building. But then 126 00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:28.120 actually to be on side on a Sunday or have a pastor be able to 127 00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:31.360 say go check out Garrett, I think that does make a big difference. 128 00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:35.600 So that's that's a pretty cool way to go about it. Speaking of the 129 00:09:35.320 --> 00:09:41.870 why, Garrett, in previous conversations we've talked about the different branding and communication 130 00:09:41.990 --> 00:09:48.429 messages that you have to have for the different types of people that you're speaking 131 00:09:48.509 --> 00:09:50.190 to, because I think they're in your history. There was a merger. 132 00:09:50.389 --> 00:09:56.059 So if you could kind of give everyone a history, or should I say 133 00:09:56.580 --> 00:10:01.419 description of that history and that merger and then we can talk about the challenges 134 00:10:01.539 --> 00:10:07.139 that it gives you in when you're going out to talk to them, speak 135 00:10:07.139 --> 00:10:11.929 to them in market and develop troy. I appreciate your giving Shane to me 136 00:10:11.009 --> 00:10:16.610 the opportunity to talk about this because I think it's a fascinating case study in 137 00:10:16.730 --> 00:10:22.200 higher at branding and audience identification. Some of this is going to make the 138 00:10:22.360 --> 00:10:28.320 traditional branding folks out there listening a little squeamish, I think what I describe 139 00:10:28.399 --> 00:10:31.279 what we do, but it really does work for us. So some quick 140 00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:35.870 history. As you mentioned troy, our current seminary, Garrett Evangelical Theological Seminary, 141 00:10:37.470 --> 00:10:41.269 is really the merger of two seminaries. So some quick church history. 142 00:10:41.830 --> 00:10:48.269 The United Methodist Church was formed in the late s when what was then the 143 00:10:48.509 --> 00:10:54.580 Methodist Church merged with the Evangelical United Brethren, more commonly known as the EUB, 144 00:10:54.179 --> 00:11:00.019 to form the United Methodist Church. At the time, Garrett Biblical institute 145 00:11:00.059 --> 00:11:03.940 at Evans to Illinois, where we are now, was the methodist seminary in 146 00:11:03.019 --> 00:11:09.129 the Chicago area and Evangelical Theological Seminary in Naperville Illinois and the West suburbs of 147 00:11:09.210 --> 00:11:16.970 Chicago was the eub seminary and of course it didn't seem necessary to have two 148 00:11:16.049 --> 00:11:22.399 seminaries for one denomination in the same metro area. So the two seminaries merged 149 00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:28.360 and it became what we are now, Garrett Evangelical Theological Seminary. Our Name 150 00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:33.269 is hyphenated, so it's Garrett Evangelical and that's a pretty much a historic name 151 00:11:33.389 --> 00:11:37.230 for us. That merger happened in the early to mid S, so we 152 00:11:37.350 --> 00:11:43.549 still have a lot of living alumni from the former evangelical theological seminary and the 153 00:11:43.669 --> 00:11:50.980 former eub denomination, and I like to call this perhaps the most successful merger 154 00:11:50.100 --> 00:11:58.779 in the history of higher education, because those alumni from the former ets are 155 00:11:58.980 --> 00:12:03.570 very loyal, they're very faithful, very generous. We have several members of 156 00:12:03.610 --> 00:12:05.610 our board of trustees who are from that seminary. We have a lot of 157 00:12:05.690 --> 00:12:11.409 leadership owners who are from that seminary, and so it is important for us 158 00:12:11.889 --> 00:12:16.799 to honor that legacy and honor that name. As you might imagine, in 159 00:12:16.960 --> 00:12:22.639 our current political climate, though, from a recruiting standpoint, the word evangelical 160 00:12:22.759 --> 00:12:28.600 and its connotations work against us more often than not, and so we really 161 00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:33.509 have dual branding at the seminary. All of developments, materials are business cards. 162 00:12:33.590 --> 00:12:39.470 The way we identify ourselves and where we work is Garrett Evangelical and if 163 00:12:39.509 --> 00:12:43.309 we don't identify ourselves that way people call us on it. So it's very 164 00:12:43.350 --> 00:12:48.980 important to maintain that legacy for our admissions folks. Sometimes people walk right by 165 00:12:48.259 --> 00:12:52.419 the event table if they see the word evangelical. And so my colleagues and 166 00:12:52.460 --> 00:12:58.139 admissions, their materials, their business cards, the way in which they identify 167 00:12:58.259 --> 00:13:05.649 themselves is Garrett theological seminary. So we almost really have two branding tracks and 168 00:13:05.809 --> 00:13:09.529 marks here at the seminary. Bart, I realize that is not branding one 169 00:13:09.570 --> 00:13:13.799 hundred and one and any traditional way, but it is critically important for us 170 00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:18.120 and it works. Yeah, I think that's interesting. I mean I we 171 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:22.360 have, you know, we've got guests all across the spectrum and we talked 172 00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:24.879 with Asbury, which is the Evangelical Seminary, a few weeks ago and they 173 00:13:24.919 --> 00:13:28.190 told us a bit about how they market. This is a different audience and 174 00:13:28.350 --> 00:13:31.350 so you know, as I'm as I'm having some of the listeners listening, 175 00:13:31.990 --> 00:13:37.309 there's different audiences and I think this is part of marketing higher education is knowing 176 00:13:37.350 --> 00:13:41.309 who your audience is, being able to market to your audience effectively, to 177 00:13:41.389 --> 00:13:45.220 be able to match up the mission fit students. You know, Amission fit 178 00:13:45.340 --> 00:13:48.980 student that might be going to moody isn't going to necessarily be looking at Garrett. 179 00:13:48.139 --> 00:13:52.460 The same with Garrett students are not going to be looking at Moody and 180 00:13:52.580 --> 00:13:56.649 sing being able to differentiate yourselves through branding is going to be critical so that 181 00:13:56.049 --> 00:14:00.769 your admissions team and you're not burning through the admissions team on a lot of 182 00:14:00.809 --> 00:14:03.529 people that are not naturally going to fit. And so I think, I 183 00:14:03.730 --> 00:14:05.330 think part of it is in Shane, you can kind of way into this. 184 00:14:05.370 --> 00:14:09.919 Is really being able to position yourself in a way that you can be 185 00:14:11.399 --> 00:14:15.240 authentic who you are to the audience that's going to be your tribe that's going 186 00:14:15.240 --> 00:14:18.360 to come and join you and making that as clear as possible. And I 187 00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:22.080 think, yeah, Joe, to your point, it's not it's not historical 188 00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:26.230 branding, but is solving a problem of branding and I think that's really good. 189 00:14:26.309 --> 00:14:28.990 Shane, what do you think? Yeah, I think that's absolutely right 190 00:14:28.110 --> 00:14:33.149 and I will say we have, mean for several years, several decades now, 191 00:14:33.230 --> 00:14:37.470 we have take the initial effort just to even define the word evangelical and 192 00:14:37.549 --> 00:14:41.179 what that means here in our context, right. So, to Joe's point, 193 00:14:41.220 --> 00:14:46.500 yes, very much. It is in relation to ets and the merger 194 00:14:46.940 --> 00:14:50.379 that beyond that, we mean we've done some campaigns where we were so far 195 00:14:50.419 --> 00:14:54.250 as back to go back to the original Greek right and the Greek meeting of 196 00:14:54.289 --> 00:14:58.009 the Word Evangelical, and so so we've tried to do our peace and educating 197 00:14:58.250 --> 00:15:01.970 perspective students and a variety of constituents that we serve in what that word really 198 00:15:01.970 --> 00:15:07.399 means here within our context. Right. But despite all of those efforts, 199 00:15:07.639 --> 00:15:11.600 with the political climate as it is, you can imagine that is truly a 200 00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:16.120 David and Goliath type situation. Yeah, it is. I mean that that 201 00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:18.679 word is actually gotten hijacked. Yeah, opinion. Yeah, so I thought 202 00:15:20.200 --> 00:15:22.029 that. Can speak to that absolutely. So that really did put us in 203 00:15:22.309 --> 00:15:26.190 a position of having to really think through then, exactly, as you say, 204 00:15:26.389 --> 00:15:30.389 who is our audience and how do we make sure that we're getting the 205 00:15:30.429 --> 00:15:33.350 right fit for for who the kind of student is that we're looking to serve? 206 00:15:33.669 --> 00:15:35.980 Great and I know that you know some of the things too. I 207 00:15:37.059 --> 00:15:39.580 know when we talked earlier, just the idea of part of that just differentiating 208 00:15:39.620 --> 00:15:43.740 your brand, and I think that Joey did a great job describing that on 209 00:15:43.860 --> 00:15:46.500 how you've done that, just even through business cards and things like that, 210 00:15:46.059 --> 00:15:50.809 but also being able to recognize these different audiences in those different generation groups in 211 00:15:50.850 --> 00:15:54.210 the alumni base, and then also being able to even recognize, I guess, 212 00:15:54.330 --> 00:15:58.809 that not all your donors are going to come from your your alumni base, 213 00:15:58.889 --> 00:16:00.169 and so being able to pivot and maybe do a little bit of a 214 00:16:00.210 --> 00:16:03.649 dance with the brand to is important. Is that? Is that kind of 215 00:16:03.730 --> 00:16:07.879 way you find it, Joe when you are communicating, I do bar and 216 00:16:07.080 --> 00:16:11.519 I think that's less about the overall brand and more about how we tell the 217 00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:18.279 story. So I mentioned you in an earlier conversation. We have a relatively 218 00:16:18.629 --> 00:16:23.389 small donor base because we're a relatively small institution as a seminary, but it's 219 00:16:23.549 --> 00:16:27.389 one of the most complex donor bases I've worked with, just for the reasons 220 00:16:27.429 --> 00:16:33.500 you described. So we have our alumni, who have been incredibly generous and 221 00:16:33.580 --> 00:16:37.139 faithful over the years. We've always enjoyed a relatively high alumni giving percentage, 222 00:16:37.179 --> 00:16:44.019 as you might imagine, most of our alumni are pastors and so their current 223 00:16:44.100 --> 00:16:48.250 giving capacity is not huge by most major gift standards, but they give and 224 00:16:48.370 --> 00:16:53.370 they give generously to their capacity. That also puts them at a position of 225 00:16:53.490 --> 00:16:56.809 being good playing giving donors down the road. So we also have a very 226 00:16:56.889 --> 00:17:03.000 robust plan giving pipeline. Are major gifts, are major outright gives. Those 227 00:17:03.119 --> 00:17:07.440 in particularly that of driven campaigns, as folks might also imagine. Typically of 228 00:17:07.599 --> 00:17:12.559 come from lay folks who've been introduced to us through the ways we talked about 229 00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:18.509 earlier, and so those really are two different approaches to connecting people at the 230 00:17:18.549 --> 00:17:22.349 seminary. You know, when we engage our alumni it's just like engaging alumni 231 00:17:22.549 --> 00:17:27.069 elsewhere and higher at advancement. It's understanding what their experience was here. It's 232 00:17:27.150 --> 00:17:33.059 trying to find the right marriage between their interests and their good feelings about their 233 00:17:33.140 --> 00:17:37.259 experience here and the ways in which the seminary prepared them to be effective in 234 00:17:37.259 --> 00:17:44.849 their ministry. For Our laydowners it tends to be more broadly about good clergy 235 00:17:44.930 --> 00:17:49.730 leadership and the church. So most of the lay folks who support us either 236 00:17:49.930 --> 00:17:53.490 had family members who are garret graduates, they were preachers kids or they got 237 00:17:53.529 --> 00:17:57.450 a grandparent who is a Garret Grad and they want to honor that legacy, 238 00:17:57.529 --> 00:18:03.160 or they are people of faith who have been influenced in a positive way by 239 00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:07.400 a pastor who is a Garret Grad and they want there to continue to be 240 00:18:07.640 --> 00:18:14.869 good clergy leaders in the Church and that's what drives their philanthropy to get evangelical. 241 00:18:15.029 --> 00:18:18.789 So those are those are two slightly different stories to tell and points of 242 00:18:18.869 --> 00:18:22.349 engagement within our donor base. And then Shane might be able to comment on 243 00:18:22.470 --> 00:18:27.059 this as well. He's Garret graduate as well. I think even among our 244 00:18:27.140 --> 00:18:33.900 alumni were starting to see some differences, marked differences generationally, and I think 245 00:18:33.980 --> 00:18:38.500 that's largely because of the way in which ministry has changed over the last ten 246 00:18:38.579 --> 00:18:44.849 to fifteen years and will continue to change. So our mid career, two 247 00:18:44.849 --> 00:18:52.210 older alumni went through very traditional seminary education and went into very traditional church pastor 248 00:18:52.250 --> 00:19:00.279 roles. Are More recent alumni and our future alumni are in degree programs that 249 00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:04.480 are more diverse than a master's of divinity. They are engaged in ministries that 250 00:19:04.519 --> 00:19:11.190 are very different than leading a church as a pastor and I think that changes 251 00:19:11.910 --> 00:19:15.549 the way we think about engaging them relative to their experience at the seminary and 252 00:19:15.710 --> 00:19:19.430 that it also changes the way we reach them and connect with them in what 253 00:19:19.509 --> 00:19:23.539 are very different ministries than we've seen in the past. Yeah, I'll pick 254 00:19:23.539 --> 00:19:27.660 up on them to say it's the marketing transenter on targeting right. We've been 255 00:19:27.700 --> 00:19:33.779 having to target around here for quite some time and that work, it only 256 00:19:33.859 --> 00:19:37.700 gets only becomes more so. Target, target, target, is a lot 257 00:19:37.740 --> 00:19:41.210 of what's behind how we brand and who we communicate to. That's great and 258 00:19:41.289 --> 00:19:45.170 I that kind of brings me to the last conversation that I wanted to have 259 00:19:45.289 --> 00:19:48.849 with you was the idea that we talked about targeting and talking about we talked 260 00:19:48.890 --> 00:19:51.529 about the watering holes and some of the other things in different ways of marketing 261 00:19:51.650 --> 00:19:55.720 to to this this this post traditional audience. You know, folks who are 262 00:19:55.759 --> 00:20:00.880 graduate level. It's different, and I'd like to have you talk to this, 263 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:03.359 Shane and Joe. It's different how you're going to be marketing to graduate 264 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:07.509 students then you would to traditional undergrads. I mean traditional under grads. You 265 00:20:07.549 --> 00:20:11.470 know, you got act test your sat tests. Even though they're going test 266 00:20:11.549 --> 00:20:15.589 optional, there's still places you can go and buy lists and you can. 267 00:20:15.230 --> 00:20:18.390 You still have the college fairs, you still have some other things, but 268 00:20:18.430 --> 00:20:21.740 it's a different it's a different ball game when you get to the graduate marketing. 269 00:20:21.859 --> 00:20:23.099 So Shane tells a little bit about that. I mean, I know 270 00:20:23.220 --> 00:20:26.420 that's something that's ongoing, but what's you're thinking on that? Yeah, we're 271 00:20:26.420 --> 00:20:32.700 definitely work in progress forever. But I will say it just thinking through list, 272 00:20:32.779 --> 00:20:36.609 as you said that you know I there are traditional list that we can 273 00:20:36.650 --> 00:20:41.410 get from denominational structures in right right for those who are pursuing ordination, would 274 00:20:41.410 --> 00:20:45.410 have you. So. So in those ways there's some access to list that 275 00:20:45.490 --> 00:20:48.809 we would have and we have had to for four decades. But those list 276 00:20:48.930 --> 00:20:52.480 honestly, are shrinking right. They are less people who are going and pursuing 277 00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:56.720 ordination and wanting to work in the church, and so that really forces us 278 00:20:56.720 --> 00:21:00.640 to do than have to rethink. Where do we find new audiences? And 279 00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:03.920 so again, part of that is event driven, a part of that is 280 00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:08.069 is traditional marketing, messaging and what have you. And beyond that we have 281 00:21:08.309 --> 00:21:15.150 got the same way the someone at the undergraduate level might recruit at high schools. 282 00:21:15.309 --> 00:21:19.700 We often find ourselves recruiting at colleges right so we've got a recruiter who's 283 00:21:19.700 --> 00:21:26.539 going out and covering as many universities, in particular their campus ministries are their 284 00:21:26.900 --> 00:21:30.740 departments of religion, and trying to meet with them as much as possible. 285 00:21:30.859 --> 00:21:36.170 So so there is a heavy recruitment that happens, and so for us, 286 00:21:36.690 --> 00:21:37.849 the biggest thing, I would say I'm behind all of that, is it 287 00:21:38.130 --> 00:21:41.769 comes down to trying to hit marketing messaging would have you at a large level, 288 00:21:41.930 --> 00:21:45.170 but honestly, the vast majority of this work happens on one to one 289 00:21:45.250 --> 00:21:51.640 conversations. Right. It's all about relationship building and that is what has been 290 00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:57.400 at the center of both our development and enrollment efforts has been that one to 291 00:21:57.559 --> 00:22:02.789 one conversation. Isn't that interesting that with all of our technology today, and 292 00:22:02.829 --> 00:22:06.710 you know, we talked about all these different systems and crms that can do 293 00:22:06.789 --> 00:22:10.029 all this automation, which I believe and I think it's important. But the 294 00:22:10.109 --> 00:22:14.150 reason I think automation is important it is to free up the individuals to have 295 00:22:14.230 --> 00:22:18.019 the one to one conversations, and it seems to me that's something you guys 296 00:22:18.019 --> 00:22:21.539 are cleaning into. Yeah, I really I will tell you, having again 297 00:22:21.700 --> 00:22:25.460 worked in the development side of the of this work. We have been blessed 298 00:22:25.500 --> 00:22:30.289 with a robust development program here at the seminary for some time and you know, 299 00:22:30.410 --> 00:22:33.609 other seminaries would call us and they would ask what do you do, 300 00:22:33.650 --> 00:22:37.009 and I think they would often be disappointed because our response was we spoke to 301 00:22:37.089 --> 00:22:41.130 someone and asked. Like I think they were hoping there us some kind of 302 00:22:41.289 --> 00:22:48.079 magic tool or magic software. Yeah, but but but at the end of 303 00:22:48.119 --> 00:22:51.039 the day, you get pick up the phone, are you pay them a 304 00:22:51.079 --> 00:22:53.519 visit? Right? So that's great. Anything you would add to that, 305 00:22:53.559 --> 00:22:56.960 Joe? As far as just kind of the difference between the traditional versus the 306 00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:07.910 graduate level from a fundraising standpoint, seminary fundraising really requires very careful attention to 307 00:23:07.029 --> 00:23:15.019 stewarding the relationship. So to Shane's point about one on one conversations, developing 308 00:23:15.140 --> 00:23:19.099 long term relationships and stewarding those relationships carefully. I mean, you know you 309 00:23:19.220 --> 00:23:22.619 hear that it. You go to the case conference and you hear that right 310 00:23:22.700 --> 00:23:27.970 as fundamental for fundraising. But I think it's even more important. I Guaranty 311 00:23:29.009 --> 00:23:33.130 Evangelical. So you know we are. Most of our alums are. This 312 00:23:33.369 --> 00:23:37.049 is at best their second Alma Mater, or maybe it's their third maybe it's 313 00:23:37.089 --> 00:23:42.680 even their fourth. Our alumni, because of what they do, are engaged 314 00:23:42.759 --> 00:23:48.240 in lots of other community work, nonprofit work, and so they're getting asked 315 00:23:48.279 --> 00:23:55.829 a lot, and so maintaining the relationship and really thinking about the giving relationship 316 00:23:55.990 --> 00:24:00.710 long term. So I mentioned those scholarship funds that we have. Many of 317 00:24:00.750 --> 00:24:06.029 those scholarship funds are built over time. Rarely do we get a single gift 318 00:24:06.069 --> 00:24:10.819 to fully and dollars Scholarship Fund. Usually somebody's built that over time, and 319 00:24:11.099 --> 00:24:17.220 so it's very much just continuing to build a relationship and encourage people to continue 320 00:24:17.259 --> 00:24:21.779 to support the scholarship fund and build it over time. And so for me, 321 00:24:21.940 --> 00:24:25.849 compared to the other places I've been at a higher education, that's probably 322 00:24:25.930 --> 00:24:30.650 the biggest difference. Is the personal, ongoing personal touches to carefully steward the 323 00:24:30.730 --> 00:24:36.849 relationship are critically important, probably more so than they are other places I've been. 324 00:24:37.250 --> 00:24:41.119 That's great. Let's get to know that. So we traditionally close our 325 00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:47.079 episodes by giving our guests an opportunity to offer a final thought or a takeaway 326 00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:52.160 that could be implemented or something that you believe would be helpful to others. 327 00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:55.950 Like you that are listening and if I could start with you, Joe, 328 00:24:56.109 --> 00:25:00.029 if there's a final fin or takeaway that you like to share. So my 329 00:25:00.589 --> 00:25:07.259 philosophy about development work has always been development work is not rocket science, even 330 00:25:07.299 --> 00:25:11.660 though there's a cottage industry turning it into rocket science. At the end of 331 00:25:11.779 --> 00:25:18.339 the day it's exactly what we've been talking about. It's building relationships, it's 332 00:25:18.380 --> 00:25:23.369 telling the institution story and it's inviting people to participate with their philanthropy. And 333 00:25:23.650 --> 00:25:29.849 so I don't have a wow, innovative, cutting edge idea for you. 334 00:25:30.609 --> 00:25:34.569 What I have to suggest, particularly in the environment in which we've been raising 335 00:25:34.609 --> 00:25:37.039 money in the last year and a half, now, almost two years, 336 00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:41.680 in a time of covid is, I think this may be the most important 337 00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:48.079 moment of the last two years to make sure organizations are asking. The stock 338 00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:52.549 market is doing very well, people are giving, people are giving a higher 339 00:25:52.589 --> 00:25:56.430 levels. Lots of economic markers for a lot of people are starting to improve. 340 00:25:57.269 --> 00:26:00.910 People, I think, are in a philanthropic mood most places now. 341 00:26:00.950 --> 00:26:06.339 I think staffs are able to get out and travel again and see people facetoface. 342 00:26:06.539 --> 00:26:11.299 And so my my biggest takeaway from what we've seen this year and what 343 00:26:11.460 --> 00:26:15.900 I'm seeing more broadly as I think, a return to fundamentals. Got Out, 344 00:26:15.460 --> 00:26:19.650 see people engage and give them the opportunity to give don't be afraid to 345 00:26:19.730 --> 00:26:26.049 ask. Yeah, I really appreciate that. To Joe. So we are 346 00:26:26.450 --> 00:26:30.210 marketing communications office of two and we can geek out about tools all day long 347 00:26:30.250 --> 00:26:33.480 as well. So, but but you know, we do a lot. 348 00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:40.680 We produce a magazine four times a year. There's email strategies, there's social 349 00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:44.200 media, there's maintaining the website. You know, there's content and you know 350 00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:48.269 the whole shabbing. And so for two full time people doing that, I 351 00:26:48.349 --> 00:26:52.829 think a lot about quality and quantity. And so for us, what whenever 352 00:26:52.910 --> 00:26:56.150 somebody asked how do you well maintain? How do you do and my words 353 00:26:56.190 --> 00:27:00.309 of advice time and time again is do one thing and do it unbelievably well 354 00:27:00.940 --> 00:27:04.539 and once that's rolled within your daily habit, then pick up a second thing, 355 00:27:06.539 --> 00:27:08.740 then pick up a third thing. Right, but I always that's my 356 00:27:08.859 --> 00:27:12.500 words of advice for anyone who says in this field better to do one thing 357 00:27:12.539 --> 00:27:18.009 unbelievably well than try and do five things subpar. Thank you, Shane, 358 00:27:18.369 --> 00:27:22.049 and wow, we have microphone or while you have the microphone, would love 359 00:27:22.089 --> 00:27:26.410 to ask you if someone would like to be in contact with you or reach 360 00:27:26.490 --> 00:27:30.519 out, what would the best way for them to contact you? Be Sure 361 00:27:30.759 --> 00:27:36.839 you can find me by email at Shane Dot Nichols, at Garrett Daddy to 362 00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:41.079 you. I'm also on twitter the handles Shane, zero two, zero six, 363 00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:48.309 and you can find me on Linkedin as well. The best way to 364 00:27:48.470 --> 00:27:56.109 reach me is by email Joe Dot emmec let's, em IC K, Garrett 365 00:27:56.390 --> 00:28:02.019 Dot Edu and Garrett's to ours and to t's. I am also on various 366 00:28:02.059 --> 00:28:06.859 social media platforms and Linkedin, but I tend to be a social media stalker 367 00:28:06.940 --> 00:28:10.539 rather than poster, so I don't want to quote my handles because I'm not 368 00:28:10.619 --> 00:28:14.089 sure I got them right. Thank you both for sharing your time with us 369 00:28:14.130 --> 00:28:18.369 today. It's been a wonderful conversation. Bart do you have any final thoughts 370 00:28:18.410 --> 00:28:21.250 that you would like to share? Yeah, I just want to kind of 371 00:28:21.250 --> 00:28:25.650 echo some of what what both Joe and Shane talked about today. Getting back 372 00:28:25.650 --> 00:28:27.640 to fundamentals, I mean I think that you know a lot of what we 373 00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:30.319 talked about, whether it was on the development side or whether it was on 374 00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:34.880 the enrollment. It comes down to that marketing communications basics. Of It's all 375 00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:40.640 about relationships. I mean it's about identifying the people in the tribe and building 376 00:28:40.720 --> 00:28:45.349 relationships with them from a from a enrollment standpoint, and it's from then, 377 00:28:45.549 --> 00:28:49.029 you know, getting out and face to face and engaging in relationships with people 378 00:28:49.029 --> 00:28:53.150 on the development side and and being able to not know, both sides, 379 00:28:53.710 --> 00:28:56.619 not being afraid to ask, not being afraid to ask someone to give, 380 00:28:56.779 --> 00:29:00.460 not being afraid to ask someone to apply. Just a lot of really good 381 00:29:00.579 --> 00:29:04.819 basic things here, blocking and tackling on how to do basic higher Ed Marketing 382 00:29:04.859 --> 00:29:08.380 and I think it's a really good, really good reminder for us. So, 383 00:29:08.859 --> 00:29:11.809 Joe and Shane, thanks so much for being on the show today. 384 00:29:11.049 --> 00:29:14.289 Thank you for having us. Good to be with you. Troy and Bart. 385 00:29:14.529 --> 00:29:17.730 Yes, thank you appreciate it. That brings us to the end of 386 00:29:17.809 --> 00:29:22.009 our episode. The High Ed Marketer podcast is sponsored by Kaylo solutions in education 387 00:29:22.170 --> 00:29:26.960 marketing and Branding Agency for for twenty years and by Think Patent did, a 388 00:29:27.079 --> 00:29:33.799 marketing execution company that combines print and digital marketing for Hire Ed campaign solutions. 389 00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:38.150 On behalf of Bart Kaylor. My name is troy singer. Thanks again for 390 00:29:38.190 --> 00:29:45.349 joining us. You've been listening to the Higher Ed Marketer. To ensure that 391 00:29:45.470 --> 00:29:48.470 you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. 392 00:29:49.349 --> 00:29:52.619 If you're listening with apple PODCASTS, we'd love for you to leave a 393 00:29:52.619 --> 00:29:56.140 quick rating of the show. Simply tap the number of stars you think the 394 00:29:56.180 --> 00:29:59.660 podcast deserves. Until next time,