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July 13, 2021

Breathing Life into Higher Education w/ Experiential Storytelling

Breathing Life into Higher Education w/ Experiential Storytelling

With the shift to online schooling and a decrease in enthusiasm for liberal arts, it’s more important than ever to emphasize how the story told by in-person higher ed impacts a student’s life more than any other learning experience: critical thinking skills that can be used in any profession; a community of students eager to help each other; and a call to storytelling—creating leaders that others can see themselves in.

Phil Cook, VP for Enrollment at Lee University, joins the show to discuss the importance of higher education and its impact for the future of the world.

What we talked about:

- Higher Ed's Benefits & the Debate of Online Schooling

- The Loyalty to a Student’s Alma Mater

- Investing in Critical Thinkers Over Higher Pay

- Helping Students See Themselves in Higher Ed Through Storytelling

- Bringing Energy & Enthusiasm to Campuses

- Advice for Listeners

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

- NACCAP

- Phil’s Email

To hear more interviews like this one, subscribe to Higher Ed Marketer on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your preferred podcast platform.
 

The Higher Ed Marketer podcast is sponsored by Caylor Solutions, an Education Marketing and Branding Agency, and by Think Patented, a Marketing Execution, Printing and Mailing provider of Higher Ed solutions.

    

 

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.879 --> 00:00:07.190 You were listening to the Higher Ed Marketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals 2 00:00:07.230 --> 00:00:11.910 in higher education. This show will tackle all sorts of questions related to student 3 00:00:11.949 --> 00:00:16.230 recruitment, don'tor relations, marketing trends, new technologies and so much more. 4 00:00:16.989 --> 00:00:20.789 If you are looking for conversations centered around where the industry is going, this 5 00:00:20.989 --> 00:00:30.739 podcast is for you. Let's get into the show. Welcome to the High 6 00:00:30.739 --> 00:00:34.740 Ed Marketer podcast. My name is troy singer and I'm here with my cohost 7 00:00:35.219 --> 00:00:41.890 Bart Taylor, and today we get to interview a wonderful Chrismatic and energenic marketer. 8 00:00:42.329 --> 00:00:46.649 His name is Phil Cook and I think Bart, you're familiar with Phil 9 00:00:46.729 --> 00:00:50.240 in the circles that you run within. Yeah, that's true. Phil was 10 00:00:50.320 --> 00:00:53.840 introduced to me through a common friend. Phil is actually going to be taking 11 00:00:53.840 --> 00:00:58.960 over as the executive director of NACKAP, which is the North American coalition of 12 00:00:58.960 --> 00:01:03.670 Christian College professionals, and the job he thanks. It's a mouth, but 13 00:01:04.069 --> 00:01:08.269 people who are familiar with knacap just call it Macap, and and so it's 14 00:01:08.310 --> 00:01:14.109 sound. He's very passionate about his role. For the past thirty years at 15 00:01:14.189 --> 00:01:19.180 Lee University and Tennessee but now he'll be making the journey northward here to Indiana 16 00:01:19.379 --> 00:01:23.140 to take the helmet at KNACKCAP and I think he has a lot of really 17 00:01:23.180 --> 00:01:27.340 good things to say that, regardless of your type of school. He references 18 00:01:27.379 --> 00:01:30.579 a lot of faith based schools. But don't don't tune him out too quickly, 19 00:01:30.620 --> 00:01:34.090 because I think you want to make sure that he has a lot to 20 00:01:34.170 --> 00:01:40.010 talk about with emotion and passion and how to articulate the benefit of higher education, 21 00:01:40.250 --> 00:01:44.049 regardless of your school type, and how important that is, through storytelling 22 00:01:44.129 --> 00:01:48.159 and through other that means so really looking forward to the conversation. So true, 23 00:01:48.200 --> 00:01:51.920 Bart. So, everyone, here is our interview of Phil Cook. 24 00:01:55.000 --> 00:01:59.400 It is my pleasure to introduce to everyone Phil Cook, the Executive Director of 25 00:01:59.480 --> 00:02:05.670 the North American Coalition for Christian the missions professionals, to the podcast. Welcome 26 00:02:05.790 --> 00:02:07.990 Phil, thank you very much for having me. I'm excited to be with 27 00:02:08.189 --> 00:02:13.629 you both and I'm excited for the conversation. Looking forward to it, as 28 00:02:13.669 --> 00:02:16.379 are we. And if you could tell everyone a little bit about yourself, 29 00:02:16.419 --> 00:02:22.219 your background in your role at Nackcap, where I'm the new guy. I'm 30 00:02:22.259 --> 00:02:24.580 brand new troy, so I'm going to beat I'm just be started when this 31 00:02:24.780 --> 00:02:28.900 is when this is launched and when everyone gets to listen to it. So 32 00:02:29.379 --> 00:02:32.050 I'm new to the executive director role, but I'm not new to NACKCAP as 33 00:02:32.129 --> 00:02:37.930 I've been a part of the membership and the Organization for many years due to 34 00:02:38.129 --> 00:02:43.409 my work, in particular in recruitment and in admissions and enrollment work at a 35 00:02:43.530 --> 00:02:47.039 member institution of NACAP for many years. So I've been a part of Lee 36 00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:53.599 University in Tennessee for twenty eight years and I've been doing admissions and professional and 37 00:02:53.759 --> 00:02:57.080 enrollment work rather for twenty five years. So I've been around the word for 38 00:02:57.120 --> 00:03:00.590 a long time, been around that cap a long time. But Man am 39 00:03:00.629 --> 00:03:05.590 I excited to be a part of the the larger conversation as we help admissions 40 00:03:05.669 --> 00:03:09.870 professionals from around the country in North America do their work better and helped serve 41 00:03:09.949 --> 00:03:14.580 our students and families as well. That's great. Well, thanks, Phil 42 00:03:14.580 --> 00:03:16.379 I think. I think for a lot of people who might be listening to 43 00:03:16.460 --> 00:03:20.819 the to the to the PODCAST, they might not be familiar with NA cappen. 44 00:03:21.419 --> 00:03:23.379 You just kind of gave a little bit of a thumbnail of it, 45 00:03:23.460 --> 00:03:27.610 you know, supporting a lot of other organizations. I mean it is the 46 00:03:28.090 --> 00:03:32.650 North American Coalition for Christian emission professionals and so so really kind of focused in 47 00:03:32.770 --> 00:03:37.530 on Christian schools. And I guess before we get into kind of the first 48 00:03:37.650 --> 00:03:39.969 topic, because I think that this first question that I want to talk about 49 00:03:40.090 --> 00:03:45.840 is just just this idea of how much higher ed can have an impact on 50 00:03:46.240 --> 00:03:50.599 individual lives and I think that one of the things I've always really respected about 51 00:03:50.599 --> 00:03:53.879 NAC happen and other organizations like it. I think that cap has a unique 52 00:03:53.919 --> 00:03:59.710 angle because of the faith aspect of it, but there are other organizations that 53 00:03:59.750 --> 00:04:03.590 are supporting education because of the student success and, ultimately, I think, 54 00:04:03.629 --> 00:04:09.870 because of the way higher impact ultimately impacts our society. Maybe you can tell 55 00:04:09.870 --> 00:04:13.419 us a little bit about that and how that relates to the new role in 56 00:04:13.500 --> 00:04:16.500 that cap. Yeah, of course. That has been around for fifty years 57 00:04:16.860 --> 00:04:19.459 and, for that for the past twenty five years. Many of our listeners 58 00:04:19.500 --> 00:04:26.089 will recognize the name Chant Thompson chansing. Chant is a legend in the industry. 59 00:04:26.610 --> 00:04:30.129 After a long term tenure at Huntington University in Indiana, he stepped into 60 00:04:30.129 --> 00:04:34.290 the roles the first and only full time director and for twenty five years he 61 00:04:34.370 --> 00:04:40.199 has served with distinction and built the foundation upon which all of us stand and 62 00:04:40.279 --> 00:04:45.720 work today. But they are we're working to have admissions professionals and specifically faith 63 00:04:45.759 --> 00:04:49.680 based schools, for our organization to help change students lives and to transform their 64 00:04:49.720 --> 00:04:55.189 lives. So higher education does that. Education does that. So how can 65 00:04:55.230 --> 00:04:58.029 I have a better life? Will Education can do that. How can I 66 00:04:58.110 --> 00:05:00.670 be a better member of society? How can I get ahead in advance in 67 00:05:00.949 --> 00:05:04.430 my career? Saw An article, I think it was the chronicle of higher 68 00:05:04.430 --> 00:05:09.819 head this week that was profiling earning potential on income. Those data are still 69 00:05:09.819 --> 00:05:14.579 out there that show students who get a four year degree will make more money 70 00:05:15.019 --> 00:05:17.620 over the course of their careers, in lifetime. So NACKAPP and schools like 71 00:05:17.740 --> 00:05:21.889 us want to help students find the right fit school where they can get the 72 00:05:21.970 --> 00:05:27.290 education with excellence to prepare them for their career, but also find the right 73 00:05:27.449 --> 00:05:31.050 fit where their holistic development is fully in play. So that means emotionally, 74 00:05:31.449 --> 00:05:35.120 that means and a places the NACAPP, that means spiritually, because we are 75 00:05:35.199 --> 00:05:40.560 faith based institution. So that's the larger task before us as we work to 76 00:05:40.639 --> 00:05:44.800 help Christian education around North America and, in particular, as you makes the 77 00:05:44.800 --> 00:05:47.480 question, par specifically at higher institutions. That's what we seek to do and 78 00:05:47.560 --> 00:05:50.149 we'll can teen you to do as we get started and cranked up in my 79 00:05:50.230 --> 00:05:54.110 role there. That's great and I think that one of the one of the 80 00:05:54.149 --> 00:05:58.230 things that I I anticipate is going to happen over the next several years, 81 00:05:58.430 --> 00:06:00.149 and I think it's going to accelerate because of the pandemic, is this idea 82 00:06:00.230 --> 00:06:04.019 that I think a lot of families are starting to look at higher head especially 83 00:06:04.060 --> 00:06:09.019 with with the way that costs have kind of increased over the past several years. 84 00:06:09.060 --> 00:06:12.540 And you know, it's it costs more for a higher degree than it 85 00:06:12.620 --> 00:06:15.060 did in other areas of our society. But I guess, I guess I'm 86 00:06:15.100 --> 00:06:20.009 thinking that as higher ed marketers, we're going to need to start articulating these 87 00:06:20.209 --> 00:06:24.769 extra benefits that higher ed brings to someone's life, because I think that right 88 00:06:24.769 --> 00:06:26.850 now, I mean there's a lot of families that are looking at it and 89 00:06:26.889 --> 00:06:30.730 saying, okay, you know what my son or daughter did online for their 90 00:06:30.970 --> 00:06:35.279 junior year of high school, do I really need to invest in a traditional 91 00:06:35.399 --> 00:06:40.240 four year degree? Can I just rack it up with, you know, 92 00:06:40.319 --> 00:06:44.000 ape credits and and can I just, you know, do a gap year 93 00:06:44.040 --> 00:06:46.759 to get them a little bit of experience out in the world and then just 94 00:06:46.879 --> 00:06:49.790 do online classes or whatever to just kind of, you know, wrap it 95 00:06:49.870 --> 00:06:55.269 up? Tell me how how you see marketers really trying to help help us 96 00:06:55.310 --> 00:07:00.189 articulate that benefit, because I think it is a critical benefit that, honestly, 97 00:07:00.230 --> 00:07:02.100 I don't want to see US lose. I agree with you that the 98 00:07:02.180 --> 00:07:06.060 challenge has been great. In my role, in my work at one institution 99 00:07:06.180 --> 00:07:11.699 for many years we've had to make the argument every day, one on one. 100 00:07:11.939 --> 00:07:14.379 Macro of course we have to do that and get the messaging out, 101 00:07:14.660 --> 00:07:16.850 but the critical piece from my person spect it becomes this is a people to 102 00:07:16.930 --> 00:07:23.649 people, business people select institutions or people are donors might give money because of 103 00:07:23.689 --> 00:07:27.810 the persons and the people with whom they're interacting. So the challenge is even 104 00:07:27.850 --> 00:07:30.480 greater now, as you said, because of the pandemic. Our challenge is 105 00:07:31.279 --> 00:07:34.639 the business model can't be sustained if we just look at it through an online 106 00:07:34.680 --> 00:07:39.079 or zoom delivery. We can't compete with the public's we can't compete with the 107 00:07:39.160 --> 00:07:42.240 two years and we can't compete with it on price alone. So what we 108 00:07:42.399 --> 00:07:46.269 have to do is make the argument that this is more than a commodity. 109 00:07:46.629 --> 00:07:50.350 We're not just buying a can of beings, we're not just buying we're not 110 00:07:50.509 --> 00:07:54.949 buying a car, we're not buying a cell phone. With that, that 111 00:07:55.230 --> 00:07:58.980 what this is about. There's so much more to this experience, because when 112 00:07:58.980 --> 00:08:03.100 you choose a college university, you are literally choosing a universe that you're going 113 00:08:03.220 --> 00:08:07.540 to insert yourself and immerse yourself. So what kind of person do you want 114 00:08:07.579 --> 00:08:09.220 to be whenever you come out of that school for four years later? So 115 00:08:09.459 --> 00:08:13.410 it matters the kind of faculty that stand in front of you or even make 116 00:08:13.490 --> 00:08:16.250 zoom in from zoom with you. What kind of person, what kind of 117 00:08:16.250 --> 00:08:20.250 values is that person have? Do they align with the values that we have 118 00:08:20.370 --> 00:08:24.810 as a family and, in our case, with NACAP as families of faith? 119 00:08:24.209 --> 00:08:28.480 So what is that worth? Is it worth a sacrifice? We think 120 00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:31.679 it is. Is it worth a little bit of student loan and deadness? 121 00:08:31.960 --> 00:08:37.240 We think it is, and is it worth extracurricular programs or classes that make 122 00:08:37.320 --> 00:08:41.080 the difference to be have someone become a better person? So you know, 123 00:08:41.120 --> 00:08:43.909 I'm excited about the challenge. It's a bigger challenge, in my opinion, 124 00:08:43.149 --> 00:08:46.870 then it's been since I've been in this industry. We have to make the 125 00:08:46.029 --> 00:08:52.710 argument intelligently, cogently and impassioned that choosing a four year school and a faith 126 00:08:52.750 --> 00:08:56.179 based institution is the right choice for our family. Yeah, yeah, that's 127 00:08:56.220 --> 00:09:00.460 great and I agree with you. I think that that those years a formative 128 00:09:00.460 --> 00:09:03.740 years between eighteen and twenty two. I think that all of us who have 129 00:09:03.860 --> 00:09:09.899 experienced that traditional higher end experience know how formative that is, how how that 130 00:09:09.049 --> 00:09:13.850 universe has shaped us in different ways and I think that sometimes that also kind 131 00:09:13.889 --> 00:09:18.330 of sets us on a course. And again, this is another reason why 132 00:09:18.330 --> 00:09:22.570 I think it's so important for high end marketers to understand the ability to articulate 133 00:09:22.769 --> 00:09:28.080 the benefit of that universe, if you will, because ultimately ten, fifteen, 134 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:31.240 twenty years down the road, those alumni are going to turn around and 135 00:09:31.279 --> 00:09:35.360 give back to the university and help other students kind of have that experience help 136 00:09:35.399 --> 00:09:39.190 other students, help shape them, and I guess that's maybe one of the 137 00:09:39.230 --> 00:09:43.750 reasons why there's so much loyalty and maybe a tunament to Alma maters and talk 138 00:09:43.909 --> 00:09:46.269 a little bit about that because I don't our pre interview you had some interesting 139 00:09:46.269 --> 00:09:50.750 things to say about that. Well, I mean literally the from what from 140 00:09:50.789 --> 00:09:54.980 what I know, Alma Mater means mother. So what more affinity, what 141 00:09:56.139 --> 00:10:00.500 more emotion is there in the right traditional family setting? Understand sometimes with parent 142 00:10:00.700 --> 00:10:03.700 kind of upbringing and rearing theirs trauma that, but in the traditional setting, 143 00:10:03.019 --> 00:10:07.169 what more affinity is there for your mother, the one who cares to the 144 00:10:07.210 --> 00:10:09.610 one who nurtures you, the one who gets you along and set you up 145 00:10:09.610 --> 00:10:13.049 for life? So so, in that eighteen to twenty two year old time 146 00:10:13.210 --> 00:10:18.049 frame it is critical for us to make those connections intellectually, cognitively, but 147 00:10:18.169 --> 00:10:22.840 also emotionally, that this is something, that place that cares about me, 148 00:10:22.240 --> 00:10:26.159 and then I in turn, when I graduate, I care about it as 149 00:10:26.200 --> 00:10:30.919 well. I spent one year, one year as a minister of youth before 150 00:10:30.919 --> 00:10:33.039 I came to that Alma matern go to work. Well, my take on 151 00:10:33.159 --> 00:10:37.429 that was as twelve, thirteen, sixteen, Seventeen, eight year old, 152 00:10:37.470 --> 00:10:39.230 you're just trying to survive, right'd get them to get through the day and 153 00:10:39.590 --> 00:10:43.389 and hopefully they listen to you. But it's the eighteen and nineteen and twenty 154 00:10:43.429 --> 00:10:46.990 and twenty one years, when you see that progress happening, when you see 155 00:10:48.070 --> 00:10:50.779 that maturity right before your eyes, that's the payoff. That's the magic of 156 00:10:50.820 --> 00:10:54.299 the college experience. Never again, in my life at least. I don't 157 00:10:54.299 --> 00:10:58.259 know about you guys, but did I have the freedom to make the decisions 158 00:10:58.299 --> 00:11:01.460 that I wanted, to make the mistakes and learn from those in the way 159 00:11:01.500 --> 00:11:07.129 that I did, but also to have success, to build confidence and set 160 00:11:07.169 --> 00:11:09.889 me up for success in life. So that eighteen two to twenty two year 161 00:11:09.889 --> 00:11:13.090 old time frame. It's critical from my perspective because we want our students, 162 00:11:13.289 --> 00:11:16.690 not capps schools, all of our schools, to have an affinity for their 163 00:11:16.730 --> 00:11:22.600 alma mater that will never go away because of the wonderful life changing, transform 164 00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:26.200 national experience they had when they were student. Yeah, that's that's really good 165 00:11:26.279 --> 00:11:30.639 and I know that. I know that lives changing experience as they've had a 166 00:11:30.679 --> 00:11:33.750 students, and I see this especially in faith based. I'm a product to 167 00:11:33.870 --> 00:11:35.669 faith based so I understand that little bit more. But I think that, 168 00:11:37.190 --> 00:11:39.470 like you, we're going back to the very beginning. I think the impact 169 00:11:39.509 --> 00:11:43.990 that highered really it gives because of that confidence. It's built because of those 170 00:11:45.309 --> 00:11:48.220 being able to have the freedom to learn from your mistakes, those different things 171 00:11:48.299 --> 00:11:52.379 of kind of molding you into the person that you are. It kind of 172 00:11:52.460 --> 00:11:56.019 impacts our society in the way that we are creating better people and I know 173 00:11:56.139 --> 00:12:01.019 that there's been some different folks that kind of have have made some comments about 174 00:12:01.019 --> 00:12:03.889 that that you mentioned earlier. Maybe we can kind of unpack that a little 175 00:12:03.889 --> 00:12:07.610 bit. Yeah, and it's a real challenge now because many of our schools 176 00:12:07.610 --> 00:12:11.289 and faith based institution, I'll talk about the one milem the modern where I've 177 00:12:11.289 --> 00:12:15.330 worked for so many years. We just have we describe ourselves as a Christ 178 00:12:15.409 --> 00:12:18.600 centered liberal arts institution with a liberal arts it's been a struggle. The Liberal 179 00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:22.759 Arts that commits Lib Rot is fading in a lot of places because families, 180 00:12:22.120 --> 00:12:28.159 rightfully so, want to see a return on the event investment. What kind 181 00:12:28.159 --> 00:12:30.509 of job my going to get from this? Feel if I choose to come 182 00:12:30.590 --> 00:12:33.750 to your school, what will it cost me to go in there and what 183 00:12:33.870 --> 00:12:35.870 will I be able to make when I get out of here? And I 184 00:12:35.990 --> 00:12:39.230 get all of that, because the growth in many department programs is in the 185 00:12:39.309 --> 00:12:43.149 professional areas business, communication, education, nursing, medical, all those are 186 00:12:43.190 --> 00:12:48.059 where the money is. However, I also believe that there's that the commitment 187 00:12:48.139 --> 00:12:52.100 to being a better critical thinker, the commitment to being a better person that 188 00:12:52.419 --> 00:12:54.940 when I'm in those jobs are I'm making money. We want people to be 189 00:12:56.019 --> 00:13:01.570 leaders who have integrity and have values that transcend what's out there in the world. 190 00:13:01.570 --> 00:13:03.809 So the fact is and we need that. We need that it in 191 00:13:03.850 --> 00:13:07.730 a time of our lives. Our Society needs that, our government in our 192 00:13:07.769 --> 00:13:09.850 country needs it right. So, yeah, the the better person, the 193 00:13:09.929 --> 00:13:13.720 critical thinker that's going to be a that has a moral base that solid and 194 00:13:13.759 --> 00:13:16.279 again, for us it flows from our faith. So yes, we think 195 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:20.840 we can prepare you for a career where you can make some money, but 196 00:13:20.960 --> 00:13:24.519 yes, we also think we can help you to be a more well rounded 197 00:13:24.720 --> 00:13:28.110 person, a critical thinkers. Then when you're with your employer, they think 198 00:13:28.190 --> 00:13:31.590 highly of you. When you're with your family or your civic duties or your 199 00:13:31.629 --> 00:13:35.509 or your faith based institutions, that you're going to thrive as well. That's 200 00:13:35.549 --> 00:13:37.750 the challenge for us and I don't know if you can tell, but I'm 201 00:13:37.750 --> 00:13:41.059 excited about the challenge that we have in our institutions to be able to bring 202 00:13:41.100 --> 00:13:43.860 that the bet bring out the past right now. Yeah, I can tell 203 00:13:45.059 --> 00:13:48.740 that's great and I do love your passionate about this and try that. Maybe 204 00:13:48.779 --> 00:13:50.980 that kind of leads us into the next question about how do we how do 205 00:13:52.019 --> 00:13:54.769 we get more into in the passion and emotion? It most certainly does, 206 00:13:54.970 --> 00:14:01.049 and our previous conversation with bill, he told us that because of his success 207 00:14:01.370 --> 00:14:07.570 that he's seen in this career and at Lee University, one of those things 208 00:14:07.610 --> 00:14:13.720 is bringing passion and bringing emotion and selling that as part of how you market 209 00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:18.879 the university. And still could you let us know how you feel others could 210 00:14:18.879 --> 00:14:24.200 do that as well. Yeah, the there's no doubt that, especially in 211 00:14:24.279 --> 00:14:28.710 universities, we are part of the academy. We are to be thinkers. 212 00:14:28.750 --> 00:14:33.990 We are to prepare students to think and critically reflect then to be more intelligent 213 00:14:33.029 --> 00:14:35.990 in that regard, to more intellectual. On the other hand, I think 214 00:14:37.389 --> 00:14:39.379 the people with whom I've worked that I've really found success is yeah, I 215 00:14:39.419 --> 00:14:43.419 remember what they said and I remember what they've taught me men. I remember 216 00:14:43.460 --> 00:14:46.419 how they made me feel when I'm around them. Do I leave this person's 217 00:14:46.460 --> 00:14:50.820 presence feeling more encouraged? Do I feel better about myself. So from my 218 00:14:52.019 --> 00:14:56.009 perspective it's the it's the I heard somebody describe at one time as you've got 219 00:14:56.049 --> 00:14:58.330 the stake and you've got the sizzle of the stake. Right, so that's 220 00:14:58.370 --> 00:15:01.610 the stake to the stake got to be good. It's got a taste good, 221 00:15:01.970 --> 00:15:03.370 but man, that sizzle, that that beginning of it. That's the 222 00:15:03.490 --> 00:15:09.039 the intensity and the passion of it that we've got to bring and students, 223 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:11.759 Gen Z I'm not even sure at the night I should know this what the 224 00:15:11.799 --> 00:15:13.240 next generation is going to be. I said Alpha, that's right, you 225 00:15:13.320 --> 00:15:18.480 told me that last time, or Alpha Zup. But I'll tell you what, 226 00:15:18.600 --> 00:15:22.590 as a Gen Xtra, myself real, recognized as real. So I 227 00:15:22.629 --> 00:15:26.309 don't want emotion just for emotions sake. It's got to be put from a 228 00:15:26.350 --> 00:15:30.230 place of authenticity and it's got to be a place that speaks truth. When 229 00:15:30.309 --> 00:15:33.909 you do that and you have the intellectual commitment to train people the right way 230 00:15:35.230 --> 00:15:39.419 and you bring with it an energy, my opinion it's a recipe for success 231 00:15:39.620 --> 00:15:43.779 that will impact our students to have better lives and to be more successful. 232 00:15:43.779 --> 00:15:46.139 That's what we want to bring to all of schools and high I think all. 233 00:15:46.139 --> 00:15:50.009 Hired can do it, public schools can do it. I'm finishing my 234 00:15:50.090 --> 00:15:52.370 PhD at the University of Tennessee, at Knoxville. There is an emotional connection 235 00:15:52.409 --> 00:15:58.210 I have at this research one university. That's huge. But in my program 236 00:15:58.769 --> 00:16:02.970 with my oh whore, their emotional connections to the professors and the others in 237 00:16:03.009 --> 00:16:04.679 the program that mirrors this. So I think it could be done at all 238 00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:08.080 levels, but of course I think it could be done at faith based institutions 239 00:16:08.159 --> 00:16:12.200 quite well. Yeah, and I think that's really important that you kind of 240 00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:15.679 mentioned that and I we actually did a blog post this past week or two 241 00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:21.509 about storytelling and I think that too many times, I think sometimes as marketers 242 00:16:21.590 --> 00:16:26.190 and as I think we're guilty as higher ed institutions, were quick to kind 243 00:16:26.190 --> 00:16:30.549 of roll out the the outcomes, roll out the numbers, roll out the 244 00:16:30.950 --> 00:16:36.460 cost per credit hour and we lose the opportunity to really tell stories where I 245 00:16:36.580 --> 00:16:38.899 think that's where the gold mine of emotion lies, is within stories. I 246 00:16:38.980 --> 00:16:42.980 mean, and we've got a guess coming up in a couple weeks who's the 247 00:16:44.139 --> 00:16:48.289 chief storyteller at University of Notre Dame and he and I were talking on the 248 00:16:48.409 --> 00:16:49.690 on the pre podcast either. They just kind of give a little bit of 249 00:16:49.730 --> 00:16:53.330 a teaser for the for that podcast, but maybe you can kind of respond 250 00:16:53.370 --> 00:16:56.850 a little bit to fill is the idea that storytelling. It's been used for 251 00:16:57.009 --> 00:17:00.840 eons. If you want to look at you know the way thinkers throughout time. 252 00:17:02.200 --> 00:17:06.359 Jesus used storytelling, it through his parables. Storytelling is a very powerful 253 00:17:06.839 --> 00:17:10.960 way for people to not only in take content, but to and take it, 254 00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:14.759 not only the content as well as the emotion that then sears it into 255 00:17:14.799 --> 00:17:17.509 their memory, and I think that's what you kind of alluded to while ago, 256 00:17:17.630 --> 00:17:21.710 is when people are leaving something, they're going to know how they felt 257 00:17:21.710 --> 00:17:25.589 about something more than necessarily being able to recite the facts of that. So 258 00:17:25.630 --> 00:17:29.029 tell us a little bit about that and how you've you'd size that and how 259 00:17:29.069 --> 00:17:33.380 you encourage others to. I'm walking across campus to find a place to do 260 00:17:33.500 --> 00:17:37.019 this podcast and make it hopefully perfect for you guys and for our listeners, 261 00:17:37.420 --> 00:17:41.420 and on the way out the door our admissions team saw me packing my office 262 00:17:42.140 --> 00:17:45.690 and I stopped and took about. It ended up being on a thirty minute 263 00:17:45.730 --> 00:17:48.730 so I didn't want to boss my my president to know, but I've told 264 00:17:48.769 --> 00:17:53.210 some stories. I told some stories about my experience. At one point in 265 00:17:53.289 --> 00:17:56.329 residential life I cut my teeth and higher it and red life, which my 266 00:17:56.450 --> 00:18:00.319 guys their tons of stories there, if the walls could talk, and residence 267 00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:02.880 halls around the country right, right, and even on our campus. But 268 00:18:02.920 --> 00:18:07.400 I told a powerful store that was the most, single most galvanizing professional event 269 00:18:07.480 --> 00:18:11.079 in my life was a fire in a men's Residence Hall Twenty Five Years Ago 270 00:18:11.079 --> 00:18:15.470 when I twenty eight years ago and I started working here. That story, 271 00:18:15.549 --> 00:18:18.910 as I'm telling it, of the twelve admissions, young profession in their room. 272 00:18:18.430 --> 00:18:22.750 They were, to use an over to use an overused phrase, they 273 00:18:22.829 --> 00:18:26.710 were leaning in and listening to every word. They weren't born but they knew. 274 00:18:26.750 --> 00:18:30.019 There's something powerful about that story, the challenges in it and the successes, 275 00:18:30.619 --> 00:18:36.140 and everybody, in my opinion, wants to someone to hear their story. 276 00:18:36.859 --> 00:18:40.059 So when I get to tell my story, one I hope that you'll 277 00:18:40.099 --> 00:18:41.970 take it and be and be gracious with it right and and a firm me 278 00:18:42.089 --> 00:18:45.369 in the story, but listen to it and and then when you tell your 279 00:18:45.410 --> 00:18:51.049 story, professor or administrator, can I see myself in you and what you've 280 00:18:51.089 --> 00:18:53.410 done so, I think on our campus and hopefully what I continue to do 281 00:18:53.569 --> 00:18:57.480 is when perspective students go to visit a school, can they see themselves? 282 00:18:57.640 --> 00:19:02.799 They're based on the store that's being told in a macro marketing way or in 283 00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:06.359 a one on one way? So it tour guide, pictures on a website, 284 00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:10.069 a phone call, it text message? Does this student represent me? 285 00:19:10.470 --> 00:19:14.069 And as my story similar to hers, I think I can see myself there. 286 00:19:14.069 --> 00:19:17.349 Yet. So the power of story, in my opinion, is not 287 00:19:17.509 --> 00:19:19.029 the whole ball game, but man, you can make a taste that. 288 00:19:19.069 --> 00:19:22.990 It's the most important thing. Yeah, I love that film. I love 289 00:19:22.029 --> 00:19:25.660 the fact that you pointed out, you know, the different ways that you 290 00:19:25.740 --> 00:19:27.660 can get that, because I do think that everybody, every perspective student, 291 00:19:27.700 --> 00:19:33.819 wants to be able to experience and see themselves in in the place where they're 292 00:19:33.819 --> 00:19:37.859 going. Then you're looking at that's why every school I've ever talked to said, 293 00:19:37.859 --> 00:19:38.690 boy, if we can just get them on campus for campus tour, 294 00:19:38.809 --> 00:19:42.529 we can really get them here. Well, that's because they're experiencing and seeing 295 00:19:42.569 --> 00:19:48.849 themselves in the place because it's physical. But I often tell my my clients 296 00:19:48.930 --> 00:19:52.609 that, hey, we're getting ready to do your website, and one of 297 00:19:52.650 --> 00:19:55.680 my biggest complaints is the websites that I see where there's just, you know, 298 00:19:55.799 --> 00:19:57.680 empty libraries or there's, you know, here's the shot, beauty shot 299 00:19:57.759 --> 00:20:02.319 of the of the building that no one is walking around, no one's in, 300 00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:06.559 because they taking these shots in summer and nobody's on campus and for whatever 301 00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:11.309 reason. But my arguments is that, you students can't see cannot see themselves 302 00:20:11.349 --> 00:20:14.950 in that unless they see another student, another human in that. And all 303 00:20:15.029 --> 00:20:18.029 the more important to make sure that our photography, are videos, are are 304 00:20:18.549 --> 00:20:22.940 stories that we tell, the engagement that we give, are all inviting someone 305 00:20:23.019 --> 00:20:26.819 to participate and be a part of it. I me yet I'd rather see 306 00:20:26.900 --> 00:20:30.500 thirty pictures on the website of just people standing in line and in the coffee 307 00:20:30.539 --> 00:20:33.619 shop or or, you know, just candid shots. You know, kind 308 00:20:33.619 --> 00:20:37.650 of call them journalistic shots. Were just, you know, capturing real life, 309 00:20:37.730 --> 00:20:41.690 because that's when we can really start to picture ourselves and see ourselves in 310 00:20:41.890 --> 00:20:45.809 in the story. And so I love the fact that you'd mentioned that and 311 00:20:45.890 --> 00:20:48.849 I love the fact to that again, most students, you know, ninety 312 00:20:48.849 --> 00:20:52.200 percent of them who finish a campus too, are going to end up at 313 00:20:52.279 --> 00:20:56.920 that school and I know that was a big case for for my kids when 314 00:20:56.920 --> 00:20:59.720 they when they're shopping for college, and it's what I hear a lot of 315 00:20:59.799 --> 00:21:03.160 places and I think that being able to tell that story and have that experience 316 00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:06.589 is so, so critical. It's alusive. Now, Bart I got to 317 00:21:06.589 --> 00:21:08.789 say that the whole pandemic and Covid is made this more difficult. From me, 318 00:21:10.190 --> 00:21:11.470 I'm a bit of an old guard guy in that, in that room. 319 00:21:11.509 --> 00:21:14.390 But then when you say, yes, we got to get him be 320 00:21:14.470 --> 00:21:15.750 campus, well, what do you do when you can't get him be campus? 321 00:21:17.230 --> 00:21:21.059 How many how many technology pieces, can you do it? Obviously we 322 00:21:21.140 --> 00:21:22.380 have to do that. We have to be Nimble enough to do that. 323 00:21:22.859 --> 00:21:26.099 But I do believe that one of the keeping the main thing, the main 324 00:21:26.220 --> 00:21:30.180 thing idea is, as we come out of the pandemic, one of the 325 00:21:30.220 --> 00:21:34.130 things about NCB that we do our college fairs and so our office in particular, 326 00:21:34.410 --> 00:21:37.289 we are eager to get back on the road and meet people and see 327 00:21:37.289 --> 00:21:41.490 them facetoface so they then can come to campus. So it's a difficult challenge, 328 00:21:41.529 --> 00:21:45.009 more difficult than ever, but I think that one to one facetoface connection 329 00:21:45.130 --> 00:21:48.680 to hear stories and to do on campus is it's the best case scenario. 330 00:21:49.160 --> 00:21:52.720 That's great. That's great. And just kind of transitioning into this next thing 331 00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:55.640 that we want to talk about, you know, before we kind of end 332 00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:59.240 our conversation here today, is this idea that you kind of alluded to, 333 00:21:59.279 --> 00:22:02.069 the fact that KNACKCAPP runs a lot of college fairs or so there's a lot 334 00:22:02.069 --> 00:22:04.670 of one to one in those college fairs and and to me, I think 335 00:22:04.789 --> 00:22:07.470 that you know a lot of what we talked about here today is the emotion, 336 00:22:07.630 --> 00:22:11.710 the passion storytelling. You know, how do you want to make sure 337 00:22:11.750 --> 00:22:15.710 that as you bring kind of new breath into into NACKHAPP, and again chant 338 00:22:15.740 --> 00:22:18.619 has done a awesome, wonderful job. I mean he has set the table 339 00:22:18.220 --> 00:22:22.019 for the next phase. But as you bring that next phase of how do 340 00:22:22.059 --> 00:22:25.980 you see yourself kind of bringing that passion? I mean you are a passionate 341 00:22:26.019 --> 00:22:30.809 guy, but bringing that into NACKAP and helping all the member schools start to 342 00:22:30.849 --> 00:22:37.089 understand how they can be more successful in utilizing these stories and utilizing these emotional 343 00:22:37.130 --> 00:22:42.170 experiences and utilizing these facetoface engagements through things like college fairs. Well, it's 344 00:22:42.769 --> 00:22:47.680 first just to one more time reiterate the fact that I'm a following someone who's 345 00:22:47.720 --> 00:22:52.400 done something so well as daunting the idea of it is is and, to 346 00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:55.799 be totally human, obviously it's a little bit intimidating. So I'm who I 347 00:22:55.920 --> 00:22:57.319 am and what I've done, and so we're going to bring that same kind 348 00:22:57.319 --> 00:23:00.990 of energy that came think came of energy, the same kind of excellence, 349 00:23:02.269 --> 00:23:03.470 and then we have to execute and do what we said we're going to do 350 00:23:03.549 --> 00:23:06.670 well. Those are my three e's that I work on all the time. 351 00:23:06.990 --> 00:23:10.670 Energy and enthusiasm, excellence and it were going to execute what we set out, 352 00:23:10.710 --> 00:23:12.099 the plan that we do. So that that that's on my mind and 353 00:23:12.220 --> 00:23:17.980 to build upon the foundation that chant has has set before us. But what 354 00:23:18.140 --> 00:23:22.859 I hope will happen is the schools that are doing this well we'll just continue 355 00:23:22.900 --> 00:23:25.980 to learn from and prefer the other thing about this is that we have a 356 00:23:26.059 --> 00:23:30.690 real strong collegial professional respect for one another. So we get together. That's 357 00:23:30.730 --> 00:23:33.289 part of it professional out it's a big part of this too. So those 358 00:23:33.329 --> 00:23:36.329 that are doing it well will continue to energize those that might be kind of 359 00:23:36.410 --> 00:23:40.410 wrestling and struggling a very real challenge for us in this industry, in the 360 00:23:40.450 --> 00:23:45.680 enrollment industry, is the departure of leaders from the industry overall. Not every 361 00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:48.680 week, but almost every week I get another announcement of her another enrollment position. 362 00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:52.400 That's open public schools, research, one university. So there is going 363 00:23:52.519 --> 00:23:56.829 there. There's a vacuum in that regard for leadership. So, whatever it 364 00:23:56.990 --> 00:23:59.150 is, we've got to find a way to do it and what we're going 365 00:23:59.150 --> 00:24:02.190 to do is collaborate with our board and collaborate with our staff and say, 366 00:24:02.190 --> 00:24:03.789 all right, how can we do this filter bring that kind of energy and 367 00:24:03.789 --> 00:24:07.829 enthusiasm to all the campuses to ensure that we're doing it well. And here's 368 00:24:07.829 --> 00:24:11.660 what I think about in that regard. It's all about the students. It's 369 00:24:11.700 --> 00:24:15.980 all about the families. When I feel a little bit in discouraged or perhaps 370 00:24:15.700 --> 00:24:19.579 intimidated by the task, I think about students who need to hear our stories 371 00:24:19.619 --> 00:24:25.049 from our schools, students who need to have their lives changed and remember what 372 00:24:25.210 --> 00:24:27.329 my life was like by that changing. Then I'm invigorated to the task and 373 00:24:27.410 --> 00:24:30.170 ready to accept the challenge. That's how that's how we'll approach it. That's 374 00:24:30.170 --> 00:24:33.769 how we hope we will execute our plans moving forward. That's great. That's 375 00:24:33.809 --> 00:24:37.490 great. And before we kind of get into the last thing, I just 376 00:24:37.490 --> 00:24:38.599 kind of want to put a plug out for a KNACKAP because I know that 377 00:24:38.680 --> 00:24:42.200 I've worked with knackhapt for several years. We've worked on several website it's and 378 00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:47.079 and different aspects of that through your chance leadership. But I also know that 379 00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:51.920 one of the things that drives NACKAP is membership and we might have some people 380 00:24:52.039 --> 00:24:55.470 on the call that are a faith based school that might be interested in learning 381 00:24:55.789 --> 00:24:59.390 more about how they can gain more professional development, how they can join a 382 00:25:00.029 --> 00:25:03.470 group of like minded individuals for that. Just give you a couple of minutes 383 00:25:03.549 --> 00:25:06.869 just to say how might they get involved? Yep, well, thank you 384 00:25:06.910 --> 00:25:08.740 for doing that. Whenever the announcement went out a couple months ago about my 385 00:25:10.220 --> 00:25:12.859 appointment as the new executive director, I got two emails. We got multiple 386 00:25:12.859 --> 00:25:17.579 emails, but to right away one was from a lea lum who is a 387 00:25:17.819 --> 00:25:22.009 high school guidance counselor to faith based school and she said to me couple things. 388 00:25:22.769 --> 00:25:25.049 To Fail, congratulations, I'm so excited you're going to get to do 389 00:25:25.130 --> 00:25:30.450 this. But to NACKAP has been the single best professional development instrument in my 390 00:25:30.569 --> 00:25:33.410 life as a guidance counselor so. There's a K through twelve education, faith 391 00:25:33.410 --> 00:25:37.440 based part of this that we definitely want to make sure we emphasize. So 392 00:25:37.480 --> 00:25:40.920 if they're out there and they're you're working at a faith based institution and you're 393 00:25:40.920 --> 00:25:42.200 in the K through twelve, industry, yeah, we want you to be 394 00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:47.079 a part of NACAP because it is about the professional developments. My first and 395 00:25:47.160 --> 00:25:49.000 the second was the second was from another vp for enrollment who said the same 396 00:25:49.029 --> 00:25:52.630 thing. Look, I went to a KNACKCAP conference many years ago. I 397 00:25:52.789 --> 00:25:56.589 met people to this day who are the ones that I commisserate with and learned 398 00:25:56.670 --> 00:26:00.710 from. My first experience with NACKAP was the national conference and when I went 399 00:26:00.950 --> 00:26:04.339 I actually thought, wow, there are people like me crazy enough to do 400 00:26:04.579 --> 00:26:08.220 this, and they do it because because, again, faith based, they 401 00:26:08.299 --> 00:26:12.099 love the wile word and they love their institutions and they love we done so 402 00:26:12.180 --> 00:26:17.140 that was such an invigorating thing for me. So clearly that CAAP DOT ORG 403 00:26:17.180 --> 00:26:19.130 gives the way to get plugged in and connected. would be eager to have 404 00:26:19.250 --> 00:26:22.769 to grow the membership. Absolutely. We're eager to grow the professional develop in 405 00:26:22.809 --> 00:26:26.450 the national conference that we that we do and the ongoing professional elements that we 406 00:26:26.490 --> 00:26:30.569 do. We're eager for anyone to come join us because we believe it's a 407 00:26:30.650 --> 00:26:33.039 bargain and you're going to you're going to experience to get much more out of 408 00:26:33.079 --> 00:26:34.519 it than you then you could have ever thought. Yeah, it is. 409 00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:38.160 It is truly a bargain, especially for institutions, but even even for individuals. 410 00:26:38.440 --> 00:26:41.799 A I'm an associate member just to kind of again transparency on that that. 411 00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:45.400 You know I do a lot of a lot of work in the faith 412 00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:48.950 based higher at institutions and so I've joined that cap as an associate just to 413 00:26:49.029 --> 00:26:52.670 be able to be able to understand and and take advantage of some of those 414 00:26:52.710 --> 00:26:56.589 resources as well. So try. I know you've got a couple questions you 415 00:26:56.670 --> 00:26:59.990 want to kind of finalize with us. Sure, just one last one, 416 00:27:00.190 --> 00:27:03.900 Phil. You've done such a great job of giving us the big ideas and 417 00:27:03.019 --> 00:27:07.539 you do it so passionately, but if there would be a quick bullet or 418 00:27:07.539 --> 00:27:12.220 a nugget that you would share that an individual could implement that you feel would 419 00:27:12.259 --> 00:27:17.369 be beneficial, or something that's currently working for you that they could benefit from, 420 00:27:17.809 --> 00:27:22.450 what would you share with them. I think I'll just continue the thought 421 00:27:22.809 --> 00:27:26.250 of this fire on our campus that we had. What I learned from that 422 00:27:26.410 --> 00:27:32.039 experience as a young professional was the details matter, that every little detail of 423 00:27:32.079 --> 00:27:34.559 our jobs, preparing for a PODCAST, getting the call sheet ahead of time. 424 00:27:34.599 --> 00:27:38.920 So I'm prepared to talk about it. I was a server when I 425 00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:42.279 was a student and I worked at little mom and pop shop. My training 426 00:27:42.519 --> 00:27:45.829 was here's the notebook and here's the man you go take an order, who's 427 00:27:45.869 --> 00:27:49.910 terrible. Was Crazy. I graduated, went to graduate school, worked at 428 00:27:49.910 --> 00:27:55.589 at more professional place and they did Sorough detailed training and one of their core 429 00:27:55.710 --> 00:28:00.619 tenants was a TD. The other was keep your head on a swivel. 430 00:28:00.940 --> 00:28:03.099 Okay, but the ATD is at a tension to detail. When you go 431 00:28:03.299 --> 00:28:07.059 to a table, you prebus, you get little piece. So the details 432 00:28:07.220 --> 00:28:11.019 matter. Yes, the big picture of the dream of what we're talking about 433 00:28:11.339 --> 00:28:15.049 is hopefully encouraging and invigorating to us all, but the way to get to 434 00:28:15.210 --> 00:28:18.690 that dream and be successful it's all about the details, the details that make 435 00:28:18.809 --> 00:28:22.369 things excellent. That's the encourage my offer to an individual, to an organization 436 00:28:22.490 --> 00:28:26.009 would say, all right, what can I be doing today? That is 437 00:28:26.130 --> 00:28:30.799 detailed and down in the in the in the dirt. Now, me personally, 438 00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:33.240 sometimes I need help and say okay, so come here, let's work 439 00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:34.880 on the details. I hear your big vision talk and get over here. 440 00:28:36.039 --> 00:28:37.440 So it's about finding the right people to help you do that. So for 441 00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:41.190 me, attention to detail, making sure that what we're doing is going to 442 00:28:41.309 --> 00:28:45.309 bring us about success and results. Love it. Thank you for sharing that. 443 00:28:45.509 --> 00:28:49.109 Bill. I'm sure that for people who may not be familiar with you 444 00:28:49.150 --> 00:28:52.710 or Knack Cap, you've earned some fans today. So if anyone would like 445 00:28:52.869 --> 00:28:56.740 to get in touch with you, what would the best way for them to 446 00:28:56.819 --> 00:29:00.660 do that be? Well, interesting because I'm in transition. So for three 447 00:29:00.700 --> 00:29:03.500 more days it's a certain email address, but but I would. I'm that's 448 00:29:03.500 --> 00:29:04.740 not, though, what I'm gonna do. I'm going to give you my 449 00:29:04.859 --> 00:29:07.059 Gmail address. If that's okay, will that be? But that be a 450 00:29:07.140 --> 00:29:14.890 serve. Yeah, fill fill Cook Philcoka, one one at gmailcom. As 451 00:29:14.930 --> 00:29:17.890 we get into that camp. I'll assume those duties here and in a few 452 00:29:17.930 --> 00:29:19.609 weeks and I'm ready to go and eager. We have a wonderful staff. 453 00:29:19.650 --> 00:29:23.049 They're not just chant but a season professional staff that are ready to go. 454 00:29:23.089 --> 00:29:26.440 Got An email from the mess I think Phil Indian is ready for you that 455 00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:30.519 I'm ready to so we're getting up there. But Phil Cook One and one 456 00:29:30.640 --> 00:29:33.079 at GMAILCOM and then, of course, all of the MACAPP staff are eager 457 00:29:33.160 --> 00:29:37.880 to serve anyone out there who's interests may be piqued by the work and the 458 00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:41.829 good work that we're doing together. Thank you, Phil. It's been a 459 00:29:41.869 --> 00:29:45.710 pleasure getting to know you during this process and I look forward to getting to 460 00:29:45.789 --> 00:29:49.390 know you even better. Bart. Do you have any parting thoughts before we 461 00:29:49.509 --> 00:29:55.460 end the podcast episode? Yeah, I just want to kind of reiterate several 462 00:29:55.539 --> 00:29:57.779 things that feel said. I mean, I think the attention to details is 463 00:29:57.779 --> 00:30:02.539 something that's it's a huge, huge part because, I mean, if we're 464 00:30:02.539 --> 00:30:04.700 going to tell stories, if we're going to communicate our passion, we have 465 00:30:04.819 --> 00:30:08.970 to do it with some thought and some planning and some details. I mean 466 00:30:10.009 --> 00:30:11.609 we can't just, you know, tell a story that doesn't have any details, 467 00:30:11.690 --> 00:30:15.569 and so I think that that's an important thing. And then I just 468 00:30:15.650 --> 00:30:18.690 kind of keep going back to the fact that we have got to, as 469 00:30:18.769 --> 00:30:23.440 professional high ed marketers, really start to articulate the benefit of what our experience 470 00:30:23.640 --> 00:30:26.680 is all about. I mean, especially if you're a school that's really focused 471 00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:30.839 on traditional Undergrad you've got to be able to tell that story. You've got 472 00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:33.759 to be able to tell that benefit, because the assumption that that's just the 473 00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:37.390 path is eroding, and so we've got to be a little bit more creative 474 00:30:37.549 --> 00:30:42.950 in Stud and telling those stories and in articulating that huge, huge benefit that 475 00:30:44.470 --> 00:30:49.019 very few other places can one individual have such a life change in a short 476 00:30:49.099 --> 00:30:55.099 four years outside of a higher education experience, and so I think it's important 477 00:30:55.140 --> 00:30:57.819 for us to communicate that, articulate it well and tell those stories very well. 478 00:30:59.539 --> 00:31:03.539 Thank you, Bart. Well said. As we end the PODCAST, 479 00:31:03.660 --> 00:31:07.809 we want to remind everyone that too great companies come together to make this happen. 480 00:31:07.329 --> 00:31:11.410 The Higher Ed Marketer podcast is sponsored by Barts Company, Kaylis solutions and 481 00:31:11.569 --> 00:31:17.529 education marketing and branding agency, and by Think, patented, a marketing, 482 00:31:17.569 --> 00:31:22.839 execution, printing and mailing provider of Higher Ed Solutions. On behalf of Bart 483 00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:29.680 Taylor, I'm troy singer. Thank you for joining us. You've been listening 484 00:31:29.720 --> 00:31:33.470 to the Higher Ed Marketer. To ensure that you never miss an episode, 485 00:31:33.710 --> 00:31:37.269 subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. 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