Breathing Life into Higher Education w/ Experiential Storytelling

WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.879 --> 00:00:07.190 You were listening to the Higher Ed Marketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals 2 00:00:07.230 --> 00:00:11.910 in higher education. This show will tackle all sorts of questions related to student 3 00:00:11.949 --> 00:00:16.230 recruitment, don'tor relations, marketing trends, new technologies and so much more. 4 00:00:16.989 --> 00:00:20.789 If you are looking for conversations centered around where the industry is going, this 5 00:00:20.989 --> 00:00:30.739 podcast is for you. Let's get into the show. Welcome to the High 6 00:00:30.739 --> 00:00:34.740 Ed Marketer podcast. My name is troy singer and I'm here with my cohost 7 00:00:35.219 --> 00:00:41.890 Bart Taylor, and today we get to interview a wonderful Chrismatic and energenic marketer. 8 00:00:42.329 --> 00:00:46.649 His name is Phil Cook and I think Bart, you're familiar with Phil 9 00:00:46.729 --> 00:00:50.240 in the circles that you run within. Yeah, that's true. Phil was 10 00:00:50.320 --> 00:00:53.840 introduced to me through a common friend. Phil is actually going to be taking 11 00:00:53.840 --> 00:00:58.960 over as the executive director of NACKAP, which is the North American coalition of 12 00:00:58.960 --> 00:01:03.670 Christian College professionals, and the job he thanks. It's a mouth, but 13 00:01:04.069 --> 00:01:08.269 people who are familiar with knacap just call it Macap, and and so it's 14 00:01:08.310 --> 00:01:14.109 sound. He's very passionate about his role. For the past thirty years at 15 00:01:14.189 --> 00:01:19.180 Lee University and Tennessee but now he'll be making the journey northward here to Indiana 16 00:01:19.379 --> 00:01:23.140 to take the helmet at KNACKCAP and I think he has a lot of really 17 00:01:23.180 --> 00:01:27.340 good things to say that, regardless of your type of school. He references 18 00:01:27.379 --> 00:01:30.579 a lot of faith based schools. But don't don't tune him out too quickly, 19 00:01:30.620 --> 00:01:34.090 because I think you want to make sure that he has a lot to 20 00:01:34.170 --> 00:01:40.010 talk about with emotion and passion and how to articulate the benefit of higher education, 21 00:01:40.250 --> 00:01:44.049 regardless of your school type, and how important that is, through storytelling 22 00:01:44.129 --> 00:01:48.159 and through other that means so really looking forward to the conversation. So true, 23 00:01:48.200 --> 00:01:51.920 Bart. So, everyone, here is our interview of Phil Cook. 24 00:01:55.000 --> 00:01:59.400 It is my pleasure to introduce to everyone Phil Cook, the Executive Director of 25 00:01:59.480 --> 00:02:05.670 the North American Coalition for Christian the missions professionals, to the podcast. Welcome 26 00:02:05.790 --> 00:02:07.990 Phil, thank you very much for having me. I'm excited to be with 27 00:02:08.189 --> 00:02:13.629 you both and I'm excited for the conversation. Looking forward to it, as 28 00:02:13.669 --> 00:02:16.379 are we. And if you could tell everyone a little bit about yourself, 29 00:02:16.419 --> 00:02:22.219 your background in your role at Nackcap, where I'm the new guy. I'm 30 00:02:22.259 --> 00:02:24.580 brand new troy, so I'm going to beat I'm just be started when this 31 00:02:24.780 --> 00:02:28.900 is when this is launched and when everyone gets to listen to it. So 32 00:02:29.379 --> 00:02:32.050 I'm new to the executive director role, but I'm not new to NACKCAP as 33 00:02:32.129 --> 00:02:37.930 I've been a part of the membership and the Organization for many years due to 34 00:02:38.129 --> 00:02:43.409 my work, in particular in recruitment and in admissions and enrollment work at a 35 00:02:43.530 --> 00:02:47.039 member institution of NACAP for many years. So I've been a part of Lee 36 00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:53.599 University in Tennessee for twenty eight years and I've been doing admissions and professional and 37 00:02:53.759 --> 00:02:57.080 enrollment work rather for twenty five years. So I've been around the word for 38 00:02:57.120 --> 00:03:00.590 a long time, been around that cap a long time. But Man am 39 00:03:00.629 --> 00:03:05.590 I excited to be a part of the the larger conversation as we help admissions 40 00:03:05.669 --> 00:03:09.870 professionals from around the country in North America do their work better and helped serve 41 00:03:09.949 --> 00:03:14.580 our students and families as well. That's great. Well, thanks, Phil 42 00:03:14.580 --> 00:03:16.379 I think. I think for a lot of people who might be listening to 43 00:03:16.460 --> 00:03:20.819 the to the to the PODCAST, they might not be familiar with NA cappen. 44 00:03:21.419 --> 00:03:23.379 You just kind of gave a little bit of a thumbnail of it, 45 00:03:23.460 --> 00:03:27.610 you know, supporting a lot of other organizations. I mean it is the 46 00:03:28.090 --> 00:03:32.650 North American Coalition for Christian emission professionals and so so really kind of focused in 47 00:03:32.770 --> 00:03:37.530 on Christian schools. And I guess before we get into kind of the first 48 00:03:37.650 --> 00:03:39.969 topic, because I think that this first question that I want to talk about 49 00:03:40.090 --> 00:03:45.840 is just just this idea of how much higher ed can have an impact on 50 00:03:46.240 --> 00:03:50.599 individual lives and I think that one of the things I've always really respected about 51 00:03:50.599 --> 00:03:53.879 NAC happen and other organizations like it. I think that cap has a unique 52 00:03:53.919 --> 00:03:59.710 angle because of the faith aspect of it, but there are other organizations that 53 00:03:59.750 --> 00:04:03.590 are supporting education because of the student success and, ultimately, I think, 54 00:04:03.629 --> 00:04:09.870 because of the way higher impact ultimately impacts our society. Maybe you can tell 55 00:04:09.870 --> 00:04:13.419 us a little bit about that and how that relates to the new role in 56 00:04:13.500 --> 00:04:16.500 that cap. Yeah, of course. That has been around for fifty years 57 00:04:16.860 --> 00:04:19.459 and, for that for the past twenty five years. Many of our listeners 58 00:04:19.500 --> 00:04:26.089 will recognize the name Chant Thompson chansing. Chant is a legend in the industry. 59 00:04:26.610 --> 00:04:30.129 After a long term tenure at Huntington University in Indiana, he stepped into 60 00:04:30.129 --> 00:04:34.290 the roles the first and only full time director and for twenty five years he 61 00:04:34.370 --> 00:04:40.199 has served with distinction and built the foundation upon which all of us stand and 62 00:04:40.279 --> 00:04:45.720 work today. But they are we're working to have admissions professionals and specifically faith 63 00:04:45.759 --> 00:04:49.680 based schools, for our organization to help change students lives and to transform their 64 00:04:49.720 --> 00:04:55.189 lives. So higher education does that. Education does that. So how can 65 00:04:55.230 --> 00:04:58.029 I have a better life? Will Education can do that. How can I 66 00:04:58.110 --> 00:05:00.670 be a better member of society? How can I get ahead in advance in 67 00:05:00.949 --> 00:05:04.430 my career? Saw An article, I think it was the chronicle of higher 68 00:05:04.430 --> 00:05:09.819 head this week that was profiling earning potential on income. Those data are still 69 00:05:09.819 --> 00:05:14.579 out there that show students who get a four year degree will make more money 70 00:05:15.019 --> 00:05:17.620 over the course of their careers, in lifetime. So NACKAPP and schools like 71 00:05:17.740 --> 00:05:21.889 us want to help students find the right fit school where they can get the 72 00:05:21.970 --> 00:05:27.290 education with excellence to prepare them for their career, but also find the right 73 00:05:27.449 --> 00:05:31.050 fit where their holistic development is fully in play. So that means emotionally, 74 00:05:31.449 --> 00:05:35.120 that means and a places the NACAPP, that means spiritually, because we are 75 00:05:35.199 --> 00:05:40.560 faith based institution. So that's the larger task before us as we work to 76 00:05:40.639 --> 00:05:44.800 help Christian education around North America and, in particular, as you makes the 77 00:05:44.800 --> 00:05:47.480 question, par specifically at higher institutions. That's what we seek to do and 78 00:05:47.560 --> 00:05:50.149 we'll can teen you to do as we get started and cranked up in my 79 00:05:50.230 --> 00:05:54.110 role there. That's great and I think that one of the one of the 80 00:05:54.149 --> 00:05:58.230 things that I I anticipate is going to happen over the next several years, 81 00:05:58.430 --> 00:06:00.149 and I think it's going to accelerate because of the pandemic, is this idea 82 00:06:00.230 --> 00:06:04.019 that I think a lot of families are starting to look at higher head especially 83 00:06:04.060 --> 00:06:09.019 with with the way that costs have kind of increased over the past several years. 84 00:06:09.060 --> 00:06:12.540 And you know, it's it costs more for a higher degree than it 85 00:06:12.620 --> 00:06:15.060 did in other areas of our society. But I guess, I guess I'm 86 00:06:15.100 --> 00:06:20.009 thinking that as higher ed marketers, we're going to need to start articulating these 87 00:06:20.209 --> 00:06:24.769 extra benefits that higher ed brings to someone's life, because I think that right 88 00:06:24.769 --> 00:06:26.850 now, I mean there's a lot of families that are looking at it and 89 00:06:26.889 --> 00:06:30.730 saying, okay, you know what my son or daughter did online for their 90 00:06:30.970 --> 00:06:35.279 junior year of high school, do I really need to invest in a traditional 91 00:06:35.399 --> 00:06:40.240 four year degree? Can I just rack it up with, you know, 92 00:06:40.319 --> 00:06:44.000 ape credits and and can I just, you know, do a gap year 93 00:06:44.040 --> 00:06:46.759 to get them a little bit of experience out in the world and then just 94 00:06:46.879 --> 00:06:49.790 do online classes or whatever to just kind of, you know, wrap it 95 00:06:49.870 --> 00:06:55.269 up? Tell me how how you see marketers really trying to help help us 96 00:06:55.310 --> 00:07:00.189 articulate that benefit, because I think it is a critical benefit that, honestly, 97 00:07:00.230 --> 00:07:02.100 I don't want to see US lose. I agree with you that the 98 00:07:02.180 --> 00:07:06.060 challenge has been great. In my role, in my work at one institution 99 00:07:06.180 --> 00:07:11.699 for many years we've had to make the argument every day, one on one. 100 00:07:11.939 --> 00:07:14.379 Macro of course we have to do that and get the messaging out, 101 00:07:14.660 --> 00:07:16.850 but the critical piece from my person spect it becomes this is a people to 102 00:07:16.930 --> 00:07:23.649 people, business people select institutions or people are donors might give money because of 103 00:07:23.689 --> 00:07:27.810 the persons and the people with whom they're interacting. So the challenge is even 104 00:07:27.850 --> 00:07:30.480 greater now, as you said, because of the pandemic. Our challenge is 105 00:07:31.279 --> 00:07:34.639 the business model can't be sustained if we just look at it through an online 106 00:07:34.680 --> 00:07:39.079 or zoom delivery. We can't compete with the public's we can't compete with the 107 00:07:39.160 --> 00:07:42.240 two years and we can't compete with it on price alone. So what we 108 00:07:42.399 --> 00:07:46.269 have to do is make the argument that this is more than a commodity. 109 00:07:46.629 --> 00:07:50.350 We're not just buying a can of beings, we're not just buying we're not 110 00:07:50.509 --> 00:07:54.949 buying a car, we're not buying a cell phone. With that, that 111 00:07:55.230 --> 00:07:58.980 what this is about. There's so much more to this experience, because when 112 00:07:58.980 --> 00:08:03.100 you choose a college university, you are literally choosing a universe that you're going 113 00:08:03.220 --> 00:08:07.540 to insert yourself and immerse yourself. So what kind of person do you want 114 00:08:07.579 --> 00:08:09.220 to be whenever you come out of that school for four years later? So 115 00:08:09.459 --> 00:08:13.410 it matters the kind of faculty that stand in front of you or even make 116 00:08:13.490 --> 00:08:16.250 zoom in from zoom with you. What kind of person, what kind of 117 00:08:16.250 --> 00:08:20.250 values is that person have? Do they align with the values that we have 118 00:08:20.370 --> 00:08:24.810 as a family and, in our case, with NACAP as families of faith? 119 00:08:24.209 --> 00:08:28.480 So what is that worth? Is it worth a sacrifice? We think 120 00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:31.679 it is. Is it worth a little bit of student loan and deadness? 121 00:08:31.960 --> 00:08:37.240 We think it is, and is it worth extracurricular programs or classes that make 122 00:08:37.320 --> 00:08:41.080 the difference to be have someone become a better person? So you know, 123 00:08:41.120 --> 00:08:43.909 I'm excited about the challenge. It's a bigger challenge, in my opinion, 124 00:08:43.149 --> 00:08:46.870 then it's been since I've been in this industry. We have to make the 125 00:08:46.029 --> 00:08:52.710 argument intelligently, cogently and impassioned that choosing a four year school and a faith 126 00:08:52.750 --> 00:08:56.179 based institution is the right choice for our family. Yeah, yeah, that's 127 00:08:56.220 --> 00:09:00.460 great and I agree with you. I think that that those years a formative 128 00:09:00.460 --> 00:09:03.740 years between eighteen and twenty two. I think that all of us who have 129 00:09:03.860 --> 00:09:09.899 experienced that traditional higher end experience know how formative that is, how how that 130 00:09:09.049 --> 00:09:13.850 universe has shaped us in different ways and I think that sometimes that also kind 131 00:09:13.889 --> 00:09:18.330 of sets us on a course. And again, this is another reason why 132 00:09:18.330 --> 00:09:22.570 I think it's so important for high end marketers to understand the ability to articulate 133 00:09:22.769 --> 00:09:28.080 the benefit of that universe, if you will, because ultimately ten, fifteen, 134 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:31.240 twenty years down the road, those alumni are going to turn around and 135 00:09:31.279 --> 00:09:35.360 give back to the university and help other students kind of have that experience help 136 00:09:35.399 --> 00:09:39.190 other students, help shape them, and I guess that's maybe one of the 137 00:09:39.230 --> 00:09:43.750 reasons why there's so much loyalty and maybe a tunament to Alma maters and talk 138 00:09:43.909 --> 00:09:46.269 a little bit about that because I don't our pre interview you had some interesting 139 00:09:46.269 --> 00:09:50.750 things to say about that. Well, I mean literally the from what from 140 00:09:50.789 --> 00:09:54.980 what I know, Alma Mater means mother. So what more affinity, what 141 00:09:56.139 --> 00:10:00.500 more emotion is there in the right traditional family setting? Understand sometimes with parent 142 00:10:00.700 --> 00:10:03.700 kind of upbringing and rearing theirs trauma that, but in the traditional setting, 143 00:10:03.019 --> 00:10:07.169 what more affinity is there for your mother, the one who cares to the 144 00:10:07.210 --> 00:10:09.610 one who nurtures you, the one who gets you along and set you up 145 00:10:09.610 --> 00:10:13.049 for life? So so, in that eighteen to twenty two year old time 146 00:10:13.210 --> 00:10:18.049 frame it is critical for us to make those connections intellectually, cognitively, but 147 00:10:18.169 --> 00:10:22.840 also emotionally, that this is something, that place that cares about me, 148 00:10:22.240 --> 00:10:26.159 and then I in turn, when I graduate, I care about it as 149 00:10:26.200 --> 00:10:30.919 well. I spent one year, one year as a minister of youth before 150 00:10:30.919 --> 00:10:33.039 I came to that Alma matern go to work. Well, my take on 151 00:10:33.159 --> 00:10:37.429 that was as twelve, thirteen, sixteen, Seventeen, eight year old, 152 00:10:37.470 --> 00:10:39.230 you're just trying to survive, right'd get them to get through the day and 153 00:10:39.590 --> 00:10:43.389 and hopefully they listen to you. But it's the eighteen and nineteen and twenty 154 00:10:43.429 --> 00:10:46.990 and twenty one years, when you see that progress happening, when you see 155 00:10:48.070 --> 00:10:50.779 that maturity right before your eyes, that's the payoff. That's the magic of 156 00:10:50.820 --> 00:10:54.299 the college experience. Never again, in my life at least. I don't 157 00:10:54.299 --> 00:10:58.259 know about you guys, but did I have the freedom to make the decisions 158 00:10:58.299 --> 00:11:01.460 that I wanted, to make the mistakes and learn from those in the way 159 00:11:01.500 --> 00:11:07.129 that I did, but also to have success, to build confidence and set 160 00:11:07.169 --> 00:11:09.889 me up for success in life. So that eighteen two to twenty two year 161 00:11:09.889 --> 00:11:13.090 old time frame. It's critical from my perspective because we want our students, 162 00:11:13.289 --> 00:11:16.690 not capps schools, all of our schools, to have an affinity for their 163 00:11:16.730 --> 00:11:22.600 alma mater that will never go away because of the wonderful life changing, transform 164 00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:26.200 national experience they had when they were student. Yeah, that's that's really good 165 00:11:26.279 --> 00:11:30.639 and I know that. I know that lives changing experience as they've had a 166 00:11:30.679 --> 00:11:33.750 students, and I see this especially in faith based. I'm a product to 167 00:11:33.870 --> 00:11:35.669 faith based so I understand that little bit more. But I think that, 168 00:11:37.190 --> 00:11:39.470 like you, we're going back to the very beginning. I think the impact 169 00:11:39.509 --> 00:11:43.990 that highered really it gives because of that confidence. It's built because of those 170 00:11:45.309 --> 00:11:48.220 being able to have the freedom to learn from your mistakes, those different things 171 00:11:48.299 --> 00:11:52.379 of kind of molding you into the person that you are. It kind of 172 00:11:52.460 --> 00:11:56.019 impacts our society in the way that we are creating better people and I know 173 00:11:56.139 --> 00:12:01.019 that there's been some different folks that kind of have have made some comments about 174 00:12:01.019 --> 00:12:03.889 that that you mentioned earlier. Maybe we can kind of unpack that a little 175 00:12:03.889 --> 00:12:07.610 bit. Yeah, and it's a real challenge now because many of our schools 176 00:12:07.610 --> 00:12:11.289 and faith based institution, I'll talk about the one milem the modern where I've 177 00:12:11.289 --> 00:12:15.330 worked for so many years. We just have we describe ourselves as a Christ 178 00:12:15.409 --> 00:12:18.600 centered liberal arts institution with a liberal arts it's been a struggle. The Liberal 179 00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:22.759 Arts that commits Lib Rot is fading in a lot of places because families, 180 00:12:22.120 --> 00:12:28.159 rightfully so, want to see a return on the event investment. What kind 181 00:12:28.159 --> 00:12:30.509 of job my going to get from this? Feel if I choose to come 182 00:12:30.590 --> 00:12:33.750 to your school, what will it cost me to go in there and what 183 00:12:33.870 --> 00:12:35.870 will I be able to make when I get out of here? And I 184 00:12:35.990 --> 00:12:39.230 get all of that, because the growth in many department programs is in the 185 00:12:39.309 --> 00:12:43.149 professional areas business, communication, education, nursing, medical, all those are 186 00:12:43.190 --> 00:12:48.059 where the money is. However, I also believe that there's that the commitment 187 00:12:48.139 --> 00:12:52.100 to being a better critical thinker, the commitment to being a better person that 188 00:12:52.419 --> 00:12:54.940 when I'm in those jobs are I'm making money. We want people to be 189 00:12:56.019 --> 00:13:01.570 leaders who have integrity and have values that transcend what's out there in the world. 190 00:13:01.570 --> 00:13:03.809 So the fact is and we need that. We need that it in 191 00:13:03.850 --> 00:13:07.730 a time of our lives. Our Society needs that, our government in our 192 00:13:07.769 --> 00:13:09.850 country needs it right. So, yeah, the the better person, the 193 00:13:09.929 --> 00:13:13.720 critical thinker that's going to be a that has a moral base that solid and 194 00:13:13.759 --> 00:13:16.279 again, for us it flows from our faith. So yes, we think 195 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:20.840 we can prepare you for a career where you can make some money, but 196 00:13:20.960 --> 00:13:24.519 yes, we also think we can help you to be a more well rounded 197 00:13:24.720 --> 00:13:28.110 person, a critical thinkers. Then when you're with your employer, they think 198 00:13:28.190 --> 00:13:31.590 highly of you. When you're with your family or your civic duties or your 199 00:13:31.629 --> 00:13:35.509 or your faith based institutions, that you're going to thrive as well. That's 200 00:13:35.549 --> 00:13:37.750 the challenge for us and I don't know if you can tell, but I'm 201 00:13:37.750 --> 00:13:41.059 excited about the challenge that we have in our institutions to be able to bring 202 00:13:41.100 --> 00:13:43.860 that the bet bring out the past right now. Yeah, I can tell 203 00:13:45.059 --> 00:13:48.740 that's great and I do love your passionate about this and try that. Maybe 204 00:13:48.779 --> 00:13:50.980 that kind of leads us into the next question about how do we how do 205 00:13:52.019 --> 00:13:54.769 we get more into in the passion and emotion? It most certainly does, 206 00:13:54.970 --> 00:14:01.049 and our previous conversation with bill, he told us that because of his success 207 00:14:01.370 --> 00:14:07.570 that he's seen in this career and at Lee University, one of those things 208 00:14:07.610 --> 00:14:13.720 is bringing passion and bringing emotion and selling that as part of how you market 209 00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:18.879 the university. And still could you let us know how you feel others could 210 00:14:18.879 --> 00:14:24.200 do that as well. Yeah, the there's no doubt that, especially in 211 00:14:24.279 --> 00:14:28.710 universities, we are part of the academy. We are to be thinkers. 212 00:14:28.750 --> 00:14:33.990 We are to prepare students to think and critically reflect then to be more intelligent 213 00:14:33.029 --> 00:14:35.990 in that regard, to more intellectual. On the other hand, I think 214 00:14:37.389 --> 00:14:39.379 the people with whom I've worked that I've really found success is yeah, I 215 00:14:39.419 --> 00:14:43.419 remember what they said and I remember what they've taught me men. I remember 216 00:14:43.460 --> 00:14:46.419 how they made me feel when I'm around them. Do I leave this person's 217 00:14:46.460 --> 00:14:50.820 presence feeling more encouraged? Do I feel better about myself. So from my 218 00:14:52.019 --> 00:14:56.009 perspective it's the it's the I heard somebody describe at one time as you've got 219 00:14:56.049 --> 00:14:58.330 the stake and you've got the sizzle of the stake. Right, so that's 220 00:14:58.370 --> 00:15:01.610 the stake to the stake got to be good. It's got a taste good, 221 00:15:01.970 --> 00:15:03.370 but man, that sizzle, that that beginning of it. That's the 222 00:15:03.490 --> 00:15:09.039 the intensity and the passion of it that we've got to bring and students, 223 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:11.759 Gen Z I'm not even sure at the night I should know this what the 224 00:15:11.799 --> 00:15:13.240 next generation is going to be. I said Alpha, that's right, you 225 00:15:13.320 --> 00:15:18.480 told me that last time, or Alpha Zup. But I'll tell you what, 226 00:15:18.600 --> 00:15:22.590 as a Gen Xtra, myself real, recognized as real. So I 227 00:15:22.629 --> 00:15:26.309 don't want emotion just for emotions sake. It's got to be put from a 228 00:15:26.350 --> 00:15:30.230 place of authenticity and it's got to be a place that speaks truth. When 229 00:15:30.309 --> 00:15:33.909 you do that and you have the intellectual commitment to train people the right way 230 00:15:35.230 --> 00:15:39.419 and you bring with it an energy, my opinion it's a recipe for success 231 00:15:39.620 --> 00:15:43.779 that will impact our students to have better lives and to be more successful. 232 00:15:43.779 --> 00:15:46.139 That's what we want to bring to all of schools and high I think all. 233 00:15:46.139 --> 00:15:50.009 Hired can do it, public schools can do it. I'm finishing my 234 00:15:50.090 --> 00:15:52.370 PhD at the University of Tennessee, at Knoxville. There is an emotional connection 235 00:15:52.409 --> 00:15:58.210 I have at this research one university. That's huge. But in my program 236 00:15:58.769 --> 00:16:02.970 with my oh whore, their emotional connections to the professors and the others in 237 00:16:03.009 --> 00:16:04.679 the program that mirrors this. So I think it could be done at all 238 00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:08.080 levels, but of course I think it could be done at faith based institutions 239 00:16:08.159 --> 00:16:12.200 quite well. Yeah, and I think that's really important that you kind of 240 00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:15.679 mentioned that and I we actually did a blog post this past week or two 241 00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:21.509 about storytelling and I think that too many times, I think sometimes as marketers 242 00:16:21.590 --> 00:16:26.190 and as I think we're guilty as higher ed institutions, were quick to kind 243 00:16:26.190 --> 00:16:30.549 of roll out the the outcomes, roll out the numbers, roll out the 244 00:16:30.950 --> 00:16:36.460 cost per credit hour and we lose the opportunity to really tell stories where I 245 00:16:36.580 --> 00:16:38.899 think that's where the gold mine of emotion lies, is within stories. I 246 00:16:38.980 --> 00:16:42.980 mean, and we've got a guess coming up in a couple weeks who's the 247 00:16:44.139 --> 00:16:48.289 chief storyteller at University of Notre Dame and he and I were talking on the 248 00:16:48.409 --> 00:16:49.690 on the pre podcast either. They just kind of give a little bit of 249 00:16:49.730 --> 00:16:53.330 a teaser for the for that podcast, but maybe you can kind of respond 250 00:16:53.370 --> 00:16:56.850 a little bit to fill is the idea that storytelling. It's been used for 251 00:16:57.009 --> 00:17:00.840 eons. If you want to look at you know the way thinkers throughout time. 252 00:17:02.200 --> 00:17:06.359 Jesus used storytelling, it through his parables. Storytelling is a very powerful 253 00:17:06.839 --> 00:17:10.960 way for people to not only in take content, but to and take it, 254 00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:14.759 not only the content as well as the emotion that then sears it into 255 00:17:14.799 --> 00:17:17.509 their memory, and I think that's what you kind of alluded to while ago, 256 00:17:17.630 --> 00:17:21.710 is when people are leaving something, they're going to know how they felt 257 00:17:21.710 --> 00:17:25.589 about something more than necessarily being able to recite the facts of that. So 258 00:17:25.630 --> 00:17:29.029 tell us a little bit about that and how you've you'd size that and how 259 00:17:29.069 --> 00:17:33.380 you encourage others to. I'm walking across campus to find a place to do 260 00:17:33.500 --> 00:17:37.019 this podcast and make it hopefully perfect for you guys and for our listeners, 261 00:17:37.420 --> 00:17:41.420 and on the way out the door our admissions team saw me packing my office 262 00:17:42.140 --> 00:17:45.690 and I stopped and took about. It ended up being on a thirty minute 263 00:17:45.730 --> 00:17:48.730 so I didn't want to boss my my president to know, but I've told 264 00:17:48.769 --> 00:17:53.210 some stories. I told some stories about my experience. At one point in 265 00:17:53.289 --> 00:17:56.329 residential life I cut my teeth and higher it and red life, which my 266 00:17:56.450 --> 00:18:00.319 guys their tons of stories there, if the walls could talk, and residence 267 00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:02.880 halls around the country right, right, and even on our campus. But 268 00:18:02.920 --> 00:18:07.400 I told a powerful store that was the most, single most galvanizing professional event 269 00:18:07.480 --> 00:18:11.079 in my life was a fire in a men's Residence Hall Twenty Five Years Ago 270 00:18:11.079 --> 00:18:15.470 when I twenty eight years ago and I started working here. That story, 271 00:18:15.549 --> 00:18:18.910 as I'm telling it, of the twelve admissions, young profession in their room. 272 00:18:18.430 --> 00:18:22.750 They were, to use an over to use an overused phrase, they 273 00:18:22.829 --> 00:18:26.710 were leaning in and listening to every word. They weren't born but they knew. 274 00:18:26.750 --> 00:18:30.019 There's something powerful about that story, the challenges in it and the successes, 275 00:18:30.619 --> 00:18:36.140 and everybody, in my opinion, wants to someone to hear their story. 276 00:18:36.859 --> 00:18:40.059 So when I get to tell my story, one I hope that you'll 277 00:18:40.099 --> 00:18:41.970 take it and be and be gracious with it right and and a firm me 278 00:18:42.089 --> 00:18:45.369 in the story, but listen to it and and then when you tell your 279 00:18:45.410 --> 00:18:51.049 story, professor or administrator, can I see myself in you and what you've 280 00:18:51.089 --> 00:18:53.410 done so, I think on our campus and hopefully what I continue to do 281 00:18:53.569 --> 00:18:57.480 is when perspective students go to visit a school, can they see themselves? 282 00:18:57.640 --> 00:19:02.799 They're based on the store that's being told in a macro marketing way or in 283 00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:06.359 a one on one way? So it tour guide, pictures on a website, 284 00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:10.069 a phone call, it text message? Does this student represent me? 285 00:19:10.470 --> 00:19:14.069 And as my story similar to hers, I think I can see myself there. 286 00:19:14.069 --> 00:19:17.349 Yet. So the power of story, in my opinion, is not 287 00:19:17.509 --> 00:19:19.029 the whole ball game, but man, you can make a taste that. 288 00:19:19.069 --> 00:19:22.990 It's the most important thing. Yeah, I love that film. I love 289 00:19:22.029 --> 00:19:25.660 the fact that you pointed out, you know, the different ways that you 290 00:19:25.740 --> 00:19:27.660 can get that, because I do think that everybody, every perspective student, 291 00:19:27.700 --> 00:19:33.819 wants to be able to experience and see themselves in in the place where they're 292 00:19:33.819 --> 00:19:37.859 going. Then you're looking at that's why every school I've ever talked to said, 293 00:19:37.859 --> 00:19:38.690 boy, if we can just get them on campus for campus tour, 294 00:19:38.809 --> 00:19:42.529 we can really get them here. Well, that's because they're experiencing and seeing 295 00:19:42.569 --> 00:19:48.849 themselves in the place because it's physical. But I often tell my my clients 296 00:19:48.930 --> 00:19:52.609 that, hey, we're getting ready to do your website, and one of 297 00:19:52.650 --> 00:19:55.680 my biggest complaints is the websites that I see where there's just, you know, 298 00:19:55.799 --> 00:19:57.680 empty libraries or there's, you know, here's the shot, beauty shot 299 00:19:57.759 --> 00:20:02.319 of the of the building that no one is walking around, no one's in, 300 00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:06.559 because they taking these shots in summer and nobody's on campus and for whatever 301 00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:11.309 reason. But my arguments is that, you students can't see cannot see themselves 302 00:20:11.349 --> 00:20:14.950 in that unless they see another student, another human in that. And all 303 00:20:15.029 --> 00:20:18.029 the more important to make sure that our photography, are videos, are are 304 00:20:18.549 --> 00:20:22.940 stories that we tell, the engagement that we give, are all inviting someone 305 00:20:23.019 --> 00:20:26.819 to participate and be a part of it. I me yet I'd rather see 306 00:20:26.900 --> 00:20:30.500 thirty pictures on the website of just people standing in line and in the coffee 307 00:20:30.539 --> 00:20:33.619 shop or or, you know, just candid shots. You know, kind 308 00:20:33.619 --> 00:20:37.650 of call them journalistic shots. Were just, you know, capturing real life, 309 00:20:37.730 --> 00:20:41.690 because that's when we can really start to picture ourselves and see ourselves in 310 00:20:41.890 --> 00:20:45.809 in the story. And so I love the fact that you'd mentioned that and 311 00:20:45.890 --> 00:20:48.849 I love the fact to that again, most students, you know, ninety 312 00:20:48.849 --> 00:20:52.200 percent of them who finish a campus too, are going to end up at 313 00:20:52.279 --> 00:20:56.920 that school and I know that was a big case for for my kids when 314 00:20:56.920 --> 00:20:59.720 they when they're shopping for college, and it's what I hear a lot of 315 00:20:59.799 --> 00:21:03.160 places and I think that being able to tell that story and have that experience 316 00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:06.589 is so, so critical. It's alusive. Now, Bart I got to 317 00:21:06.589 --> 00:21:08.789 say that the whole pandemic and Covid is made this more difficult. From me, 318 00:21:10.190 --> 00:21:11.470 I'm a bit of an old guard guy in that, in that room. 319 00:21:11.509 --> 00:21:14.390 But then when you say, yes, we got to get him be 320 00:21:14.470 --> 00:21:15.750 campus, well, what do you do when you can't get him be campus? 321 00:21:17.230 --> 00:21:21.059 How many how many technology pieces, can you do it? Obviously we 322 00:21:21.140 --> 00:21:22.380 have to do that. We have to be Nimble enough to do that. 323 00:21:22.859 --> 00:21:26.099 But I do believe that one of the keeping the main thing, the main 324 00:21:26.220 --> 00:21:30.180 thing idea is, as we come out of the pandemic, one of the 325 00:21:30.220 --> 00:21:34.130 things about NCB that we do our college fairs and so our office in particular, 326 00:21:34.410 --> 00:21:37.289 we are eager to get back on the road and meet people and see 327 00:21:37.289 --> 00:21:41.490 them facetoface so they then can come to campus. So it's a difficult challenge, 328 00:21:41.529 --> 00:21:45.009 more difficult than ever, but I think that one to one facetoface connection 329 00:21:45.130 --> 00:21:48.680 to hear stories and to do on campus is it's the best case scenario. 330 00:21:49.160 --> 00:21:52.720 That's great. That's great. And just kind of transitioning into this next thing 331 00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:55.640 that we want to talk about, you know, before we kind of end 332 00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:59.240 our conversation here today, is this idea that you kind of alluded to, 333 00:21:59.279 --> 00:22:02.069 the fact that KNACKCAPP runs a lot of college fairs or so there's a lot 334 00:22:02.069 --> 00:22:04.670 of one to one in those college fairs and and to me, I think 335 00:22:04.789 --> 00:22:07.470 that you know a lot of what we talked about here today is the emotion, 336 00:22:07.630 --> 00:22:11.710 the passion storytelling. You know, how do you want to make sure 337 00:22:11.750 --> 00:22:15.710 that as you bring kind of new breath into into NACKHAPP, and again chant 338 00:22:15.740 --> 00:22:18.619 has done a awesome, wonderful job. I mean he has set the table 339 00:22:18.220 --> 00:22:22.019 for the next phase. But as you bring that next phase of how do 340 00:22:22.059 --> 00:22:25.980 you see yourself kind of bringing that passion? I mean you are a passionate 341 00:22:26.019 --> 00:22:30.809 guy, but bringing that into NACKAP and helping all the member schools start to 342 00:22:30.849 --> 00:22:37.089 understand how they can be more successful in utilizing these stories and utilizing these emotional 343 00:22:37.130 --> 00:22:42.170 experiences and utilizing these facetoface engagements through things like college fairs. Well, it's 344 00:22:42.769 --> 00:22:47.680 first just to one more time reiterate the fact that I'm a following someone who's 345 00:22:47.720 --> 00:22:52.400 done something so well as daunting the idea of it is is and, to 346 00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:55.799 be totally human, obviously it's a little bit intimidating. So I'm who I 347 00:22:55.920 --> 00:22:57.319 am and what I've done, and so we're going to bring that same kind 348 00:22:57.319 --> 00:23:00.990 of energy that came think came of energy, the same kind of excellence, 349 00:23:02.269 --> 00:23:03.470 and then we have to execute and do what we said we're going to do 350 00:23:03.549 --> 00:23:06.670 well. Those are my three e's that I work on all the time. 351 00:23:06.990 --> 00:23:10.670 Energy and enthusiasm, excellence and it were going to execute what we set out, 352 00:23:10.710 --> 00:23:12.099 the plan that we do. So that that that's on my mind and 353 00:23:12.220 --> 00:23:17.980 to build upon the foundation that chant has has set before us. But what 354 00:23:18.140 --> 00:23:22.859 I hope will happen is the schools that are doing this well we'll just continue 355 00:23:22.900 --> 00:23:25.980 to learn from and prefer the other thing about this is that we have a 356 00:23:26.059 --> 00:23:30.690 real strong collegial professional respect for one another. So we get together. That's 357 00:23:30.730 --> 00:23:33.289 part of it professional out it's a big part of this too. So those 358 00:23:33.329 --> 00:23:36.329 that are doing it well will continue to energize those that might be kind of 359 00:23:36.410 --> 00:23:40.410 wrestling and struggling a very real challenge for us in this industry, in the 360 00:23:40.450 --> 00:23:45.680 enrollment industry, is the departure of leaders from the industry overall. Not every 361 00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:48.680 week, but almost every week I get another announcement of her another enrollment position. 362 00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:52.400 That's open public schools, research, one university. So there is going 363 00:23:52.519 --> 00:23:56.829 there. There's a vacuum in that regard for leadership. So, whatever it 364 00:23:56.990 --> 00:23:59.150 is, we've got to find a way to do it and what we're going 365 00:23:59.150 --> 00:24:02.190 to do is collaborate with our board and collaborate with our staff and say, 366 00:24:02.190 --> 00:24:03.789 all right, how can we do this filter bring that kind of energy and 367 00:24:03.789 --> 00:24:07.829 enthusiasm to all the campuses to ensure that we're doing it well. And here's 368 00:24:07.829 --> 00:24:11.660 what I think about in that regard. It's all about the students. It's 369 00:24:11.700 --> 00:24:15.980 all about the families. When I feel a little bit in discouraged or perhaps 370 00:24:15.700 --> 00:24:19.579 intimidated by the task, I think about students who need to hear our stories 371 00:24:19.619 --> 00:24:25.049 from our schools, students who need to have their lives changed and remember what 372 00:24:25.210 --> 00:24:27.329 my life was like by that changing. Then I'm invigorated to the task and 373 00:24:27.410 --> 00:24:30.170 ready to accept the challenge. That's how that's how we'll approach it. That's 374 00:24:30.170 --> 00:24:33.769 how we hope we will execute our plans moving forward. That's great. That's 375 00:24:33.809 --> 00:24:37.490 great. And before we kind of get into the last thing, I just 376 00:24:37.490 --> 00:24:38.599 kind of want to put a plug out for a KNACKAP because I know that 377 00:24:38.680 --> 00:24:42.200 I've worked with knackhapt for several years. We've worked on several website it's and 378 00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:47.079 and different aspects of that through your chance leadership. But I also know that 379 00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:51.920 one of the things that drives NACKAP is membership and we might have some people 380 00:24:52.039 --> 00:24:55.470 on the call that are a faith based school that might be interested in learning 381 00:24:55.789 --> 00:24:59.390 more about how they can gain more professional development, how they can join a 382 00:25:00.029 --> 00:25:03.470 group of like minded individuals for that. Just give you a couple of minutes 383 00:25:03.549 --> 00:25:06.869 just to say how might they get involved? Yep, well, thank you 384 00:25:06.910 --> 00:25:08.740 for doing that. Whenever the announcement went out a couple months ago about my 385 00:25:10.220 --> 00:25:12.859 appointment as the new executive director, I got two emails. We got multiple 386 00:25:12.859 --> 00:25:17.579 emails, but to right away one was from a lea lum who is a 387 00:25:17.819 --> 00:25:22.009 high school guidance counselor to faith based school and she said to me couple things. 388 00:25:22.769 --> 00:25:25.049 To Fail, congratulations, I'm so excited you're going to get to do 389 00:25:25.130 --> 00:25:30.450 this. But to NACKAP has been the single best professional development instrument in my 390 00:25:30.569 --> 00:25:33.410 life as a guidance counselor so. There's a K through twelve education, faith 391 00:25:33.410 --> 00:25:37.440 based part of this that we definitely want to make sure we emphasize. So 392 00:25:37.480 --> 00:25:40.920 if they're out there and they're you're working at a faith based institution and you're 393 00:25:40.920 --> 00:25:42.200 in the K through twelve, industry, yeah, we want you to be 394 00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:47.079 a part of NACAP because it is about the professional developments. My first and 395 00:25:47.160 --> 00:25:49.000 the second was the second was from another vp for enrollment who said the same 396 00:25:49.029 --> 00:25:52.630 thing. Look, I went to a KNACKCAP conference many years ago. I 397 00:25:52.789 --> 00:25:56.589 met people to this day who are the ones that I commisserate with and learned 398 00:25:56.670 --> 00:26:00.710 from. My first experience with NACKAP was the national conference and when I went 399 00:26:00.950 --> 00:26:04.339 I actually thought, wow, there are people like me crazy enough to do 400 00:26:04.579 --> 00:26:08.220 this, and they do it because because, again, faith based, they 401 00:26:08.299 --> 00:26:12.099 love the wile word and they love their institutions and they love we done so 402 00:26:12.180 --> 00:26:17.140 that was such an invigorating thing for me. So clearly that CAAP DOT ORG 403 00:26:17.180 --> 00:26:19.130 gives the way to get plugged in and connected. would be eager to have 404 00:26:19.250 --> 00:26:22.769 to grow the membership. Absolutely. We're eager to grow the professional develop in 405 00:26:22.809 --> 00:26:26.450 the national conference that we that we do and the ongoing professional elements that we 406 00:26:26.490 --> 00:26:30.569 do. We're eager for anyone to come join us because we believe it's a 407 00:26:30.650 --> 00:26:33.039 bargain and you're going to you're going to experience to get much more out of 408 00:26:33.079 --> 00:26:34.519 it than you then you could have ever thought. Yeah, it is. 409 00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:38.160 It is truly a bargain, especially for institutions, but even even for individuals. 410 00:26:38.440 --> 00:26:41.799 A I'm an associate member just to kind of again transparency on that that. 411 00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:45.400 You know I do a lot of a lot of work in the faith 412 00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:48.950 based higher at institutions and so I've joined that cap as an associate just to 413 00:26:49.029 --> 00:26:52.670 be able to be able to understand and and take advantage of some of those 414 00:26:52.710 --> 00:26:56.589 resources as well. So try. I know you've got a couple questions you 415 00:26:56.670 --> 00:26:59.990 want to kind of finalize with us. Sure, just one last one, 416 00:27:00.190 --> 00:27:03.900 Phil. You've done such a great job of giving us the big ideas and 417 00:27:03.019 --> 00:27:07.539 you do it so passionately, but if there would be a quick bullet or 418 00:27:07.539 --> 00:27:12.220 a nugget that you would share that an individual could implement that you feel would 419 00:27:12.259 --> 00:27:17.369 be beneficial, or something that's currently working for you that they could benefit from, 420 00:27:17.809 --> 00:27:22.450 what would you share with them. I think I'll just continue the thought 421 00:27:22.809 --> 00:27:26.250 of this fire on our campus that we had. What I learned from that 422 00:27:26.410 --> 00:27:32.039 experience as a young professional was the details matter, that every little detail of 423 00:27:32.079 --> 00:27:34.559 our jobs, preparing for a PODCAST, getting the call sheet ahead of time. 424 00:27:34.599 --> 00:27:38.920 So I'm prepared to talk about it. I was a server when I 425 00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:42.279 was a student and I worked at little mom and pop shop. My training 426 00:27:42.519 --> 00:27:45.829 was here's the notebook and here's the man you go take an order, who's 427 00:27:45.869 --> 00:27:49.910 terrible. Was Crazy. I graduated, went to graduate school, worked at 428 00:27:49.910 --> 00:27:55.589 at more professional place and they did Sorough detailed training and one of their core 429 00:27:55.710 --> 00:28:00.619 tenants was a TD. The other was keep your head on a swivel. 430 00:28:00.940 --> 00:28:03.099 Okay, but the ATD is at a tension to detail. When you go 431 00:28:03.299 --> 00:28:07.059 to a table, you prebus, you get little piece. So the details 432 00:28:07.220 --> 00:28:11.019 matter. Yes, the big picture of the dream of what we're talking about 433 00:28:11.339 --> 00:28:15.049 is hopefully encouraging and invigorating to us all, but the way to get to 434 00:28:15.210 --> 00:28:18.690 that dream and be successful it's all about the details, the details that make 435 00:28:18.809 --> 00:28:22.369 things excellent. That's the encourage my offer to an individual, to an organization 436 00:28:22.490 --> 00:28:26.009 would say, all right, what can I be doing today? That is 437 00:28:26.130 --> 00:28:30.799 detailed and down in the in the in the dirt. Now, me personally, 438 00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:33.240 sometimes I need help and say okay, so come here, let's work 439 00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:34.880 on the details. I hear your big vision talk and get over here. 440 00:28:36.039 --> 00:28:37.440 So it's about finding the right people to help you do that. So for 441 00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:41.190 me, attention to detail, making sure that what we're doing is going to 442 00:28:41.309 --> 00:28:45.309 bring us about success and results. Love it. Thank you for sharing that. 443 00:28:45.509 --> 00:28:49.109 Bill. I'm sure that for people who may not be familiar with you 444 00:28:49.150 --> 00:28:52.710 or Knack Cap, you've earned some fans today. So if anyone would like 445 00:28:52.869 --> 00:28:56.740 to get in touch with you, what would the best way for them to 446 00:28:56.819 --> 00:29:00.660 do that be? Well, interesting because I'm in transition. So for three 447 00:29:00.700 --> 00:29:03.500 more days it's a certain email address, but but I would. I'm that's 448 00:29:03.500 --> 00:29:04.740 not, though, what I'm gonna do. I'm going to give you my 449 00:29:04.859 --> 00:29:07.059 Gmail address. If that's okay, will that be? But that be a 450 00:29:07.140 --> 00:29:14.890 serve. Yeah, fill fill Cook Philcoka, one one at gmailcom. As 451 00:29:14.930 --> 00:29:17.890 we get into that camp. I'll assume those duties here and in a few 452 00:29:17.930 --> 00:29:19.609 weeks and I'm ready to go and eager. We have a wonderful staff. 453 00:29:19.650 --> 00:29:23.049 They're not just chant but a season professional staff that are ready to go. 454 00:29:23.089 --> 00:29:26.440 Got An email from the mess I think Phil Indian is ready for you that 455 00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:30.519 I'm ready to so we're getting up there. But Phil Cook One and one 456 00:29:30.640 --> 00:29:33.079 at GMAILCOM and then, of course, all of the MACAPP staff are eager 457 00:29:33.160 --> 00:29:37.880 to serve anyone out there who's interests may be piqued by the work and the 458 00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:41.829 good work that we're doing together. Thank you, Phil. It's been a 459 00:29:41.869 --> 00:29:45.710 pleasure getting to know you during this process and I look forward to getting to 460 00:29:45.789 --> 00:29:49.390 know you even better. Bart. Do you have any parting thoughts before we 461 00:29:49.509 --> 00:29:55.460 end the podcast episode? Yeah, I just want to kind of reiterate several 462 00:29:55.539 --> 00:29:57.779 things that feel said. I mean, I think the attention to details is 463 00:29:57.779 --> 00:30:02.539 something that's it's a huge, huge part because, I mean, if we're 464 00:30:02.539 --> 00:30:04.700 going to tell stories, if we're going to communicate our passion, we have 465 00:30:04.819 --> 00:30:08.970 to do it with some thought and some planning and some details. I mean 466 00:30:10.009 --> 00:30:11.609 we can't just, you know, tell a story that doesn't have any details, 467 00:30:11.690 --> 00:30:15.569 and so I think that that's an important thing. And then I just 468 00:30:15.650 --> 00:30:18.690 kind of keep going back to the fact that we have got to, as 469 00:30:18.769 --> 00:30:23.440 professional high ed marketers, really start to articulate the benefit of what our experience 470 00:30:23.640 --> 00:30:26.680 is all about. I mean, especially if you're a school that's really focused 471 00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:30.839 on traditional Undergrad you've got to be able to tell that story. You've got 472 00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:33.759 to be able to tell that benefit, because the assumption that that's just the 473 00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:37.390 path is eroding, and so we've got to be a little bit more creative 474 00:30:37.549 --> 00:30:42.950 in Stud and telling those stories and in articulating that huge, huge benefit that 475 00:30:44.470 --> 00:30:49.019 very few other places can one individual have such a life change in a short 476 00:30:49.099 --> 00:30:55.099 four years outside of a higher education experience, and so I think it's important 477 00:30:55.140 --> 00:30:57.819 for us to communicate that, articulate it well and tell those stories very well. 478 00:30:59.539 --> 00:31:03.539 Thank you, Bart. Well said. As we end the PODCAST, 479 00:31:03.660 --> 00:31:07.809 we want to remind everyone that too great companies come together to make this happen. 480 00:31:07.329 --> 00:31:11.410 The Higher Ed Marketer podcast is sponsored by Barts Company, Kaylis solutions and 481 00:31:11.569 --> 00:31:17.529 education marketing and branding agency, and by Think, patented, a marketing, 482 00:31:17.569 --> 00:31:22.839 execution, printing and mailing provider of Higher Ed Solutions. On behalf of Bart 483 00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:29.680 Taylor, I'm troy singer. Thank you for joining us. You've been listening 484 00:31:29.720 --> 00:31:33.470 to the Higher Ed Marketer. To ensure that you never miss an episode, 485 00:31:33.710 --> 00:31:37.269 subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you're listening with apple 486 00:31:37.309 --> 00:31:41.390 PODCASTS, we'd love for you to leave a quick rating of the show. 487 00:31:41.430 --> 00:31:45.470 Simply tap the number of stars you think the podcast deserves. Until next time, 488 -->