Being Competitive With Bold Marketing

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:06.440 The High Red Marketer podcast is sponsored by the ZEMI APP enabling colleges and universities 2 00:00:06.480 --> 00:00:12.759 to engage interested students before the even apply. You were listening to the Higher 3 00:00:12.880 --> 00:00:18.079 Ed Marketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals in higher education. This show 4 00:00:18.120 --> 00:00:22.879 will tackle all sorts of questions related to student recruitment, don'tor relations, marketing 5 00:00:22.879 --> 00:00:27.199 trends, new technologies and so much more. If you are looking for conversation 6 00:00:27.320 --> 00:00:31.760 centered around where the industry is going, this podcast is for you. Let's 7 00:00:31.800 --> 00:00:40.479 get into the show. Welcome to the High Reed Marketer podcast. I'm troy 8 00:00:40.560 --> 00:00:45.399 singer here with Bart Taylor and this week we speak with Dr Scott Feller. 9 00:00:45.439 --> 00:00:49.759 He's the president of Wabash College. It is an all men's college in the 10 00:00:49.759 --> 00:00:55.759 State of Indiana, and we talked to Dr Feller about leaning in and marketing 11 00:00:55.759 --> 00:01:00.479 your distinctives and he brings his message very boldly and very dynamically. Yeah, 12 00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:04.120 Troy, it's a great conversation. I was really excited to have Dr Feller 13 00:01:04.159 --> 00:01:08.439 on the on the podcast today. He was an introduction via Ethan Braden from 14 00:01:08.439 --> 00:01:12.079 purdue, and so Ethan really encourage me to reach out to Dr Feller. 15 00:01:12.120 --> 00:01:15.319 He had heard him talk about, you know, trying to switch the emphasis 16 00:01:15.319 --> 00:01:21.120 to outcomes as opposed to, you know, selling the academics necessarily, and 17 00:01:21.120 --> 00:01:25.159 I think that Scott does a great job of articulating that and explaining how he 18 00:01:25.239 --> 00:01:30.319 leverages those distinctives of a small private men's college into really the benefit that that 19 00:01:30.439 --> 00:01:36.959 students and families can understand. I'm excited to get into this conversation with Dr 20 00:01:37.079 --> 00:01:42.920 Scott Feller. It's our pleasure to welcome Dr Scott Feller, president of Wabash 21 00:01:42.040 --> 00:01:47.120 College, to the High Red Marketer podcast. And Scott, before we get 22 00:01:47.159 --> 00:01:51.040 into some of the uniqueness of how your marketing Wabash, if you could give 23 00:01:51.079 --> 00:01:57.280 our listeners a little bit about the college and some of the unique things about 24 00:01:57.400 --> 00:02:00.359 it if for some of them that are not familiar that they should know? 25 00:02:00.599 --> 00:02:04.159 Thank you very much. Yeah, we're very unique college. We're one of 26 00:02:04.200 --> 00:02:08.599 only three all male liberal arts colleges in the country. So we're locating Crawford 27 00:02:08.639 --> 00:02:14.520 Zool, Indiana, with a hundred percent residential campus. It consists of about 28 00:02:14.599 --> 00:02:19.120 eight hundred and fifty young men. I've been the president here for about eighteen, 29 00:02:19.280 --> 00:02:23.400 nineteen months, but I've spent this my twenty four year at Wall Bays. 30 00:02:23.520 --> 00:02:28.360 I began my career as a faculty member, served as the college is 31 00:02:28.400 --> 00:02:32.240 chief academic officer and July of two thousand and twenty I moved over to the 32 00:02:32.240 --> 00:02:37.000 president's room. Thank you, Scott. And one of the things that sticks 33 00:02:37.039 --> 00:02:40.319 out to me as we speak to you and reading about the college is that 34 00:02:40.400 --> 00:02:47.639 the college is unapologetically a residential Liberal Arts College for men in Indiana. That 35 00:02:47.800 --> 00:02:52.919 very much right. We're we have a unique mission. We know it. 36 00:02:53.319 --> 00:02:58.280 Every student, Faculty and staff member knows our mission. We're very committed to 37 00:02:58.319 --> 00:03:02.000 it. We know it's not for everyone, but we think that for many 38 00:03:02.080 --> 00:03:08.080 young men it's a really excellent option and and we're very committed to you know, 39 00:03:08.159 --> 00:03:15.599 traditional liberal arts. The education here is both timeless in terms of based 40 00:03:15.719 --> 00:03:22.319 on a liberal arts curriculum that emphasizes clear written in oral communication, critical thinking, 41 00:03:22.319 --> 00:03:27.199 moral reasoning the ability to work with others, but it's also timely in 42 00:03:27.240 --> 00:03:32.319 that it's very much focused on sending young men from Wabash college out into the 43 00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:37.360 world. Thank you. I think some would even say that some of your 44 00:03:37.400 --> 00:03:40.919 marketing and how you compare yourself to the others could be bold so if we 45 00:03:40.960 --> 00:03:46.639 can start out our conversation by how wabash leads with the great outcomes. Yeah, 46 00:03:46.719 --> 00:03:53.280 we've probably been about three or four years in a model where we really 47 00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:59.800 lead with outcomes. I think traditionally small liberal arts colleges we tend to lead 48 00:03:59.840 --> 00:04:03.080 with what we are, not what we get done. Everyone says they're a 49 00:04:03.240 --> 00:04:08.360 unique small community and they're right, but at the end of the day I 50 00:04:08.360 --> 00:04:14.240 think students and their families want to know what is going to be my experience 51 00:04:14.560 --> 00:04:19.920 through an after Wabash College. So we talked a lot about graduation rates. 52 00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:25.839 Young men are not graduating from college at great rates, so we're very proud. 53 00:04:25.839 --> 00:04:30.639 We think our focus on young men and their success gives us an advantage 54 00:04:30.759 --> 00:04:36.240 there. We also know that families are concerned about the return on their investment. 55 00:04:36.480 --> 00:04:43.360 Wabash is quite an affordable option for families, but we're still asking people 56 00:04:43.399 --> 00:04:47.160 to invest their time and their money. So we're very proud. We lead 57 00:04:47.160 --> 00:04:51.720 with the fact that ninety eight to a hundred percent of our graduates are settled 58 00:04:51.879 --> 00:04:59.800 in their first destination a couple of months passed graduation. We lead with our 59 00:04:59.800 --> 00:05:03.800 position in national rankings. We end up at the top of some very good 60 00:05:03.839 --> 00:05:10.319 lists. One that were particularly proud of is that we have the number one 61 00:05:10.439 --> 00:05:14.639 alumni network in the country as part of the secret and how we get these 62 00:05:14.720 --> 00:05:20.680 guys placed in internships and jobs. We also have some really enviable numbers from, 63 00:05:20.680 --> 00:05:26.000 for example, pay scale on the salary data ten years out, salary 64 00:05:26.079 --> 00:05:31.279 data, big career where we're among the top liberal arts colleges in the Midwest. 65 00:05:31.439 --> 00:05:36.240 So student can come to Wallbash, student can get a liberal arts education 66 00:05:36.279 --> 00:05:43.480 and the student can set themselves up for a lifetime of both satisfaction and professional 67 00:05:43.560 --> 00:05:46.040 success. As far as we're concerned, that's great. And I really like 68 00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:50.040 this idea of outcomes because, I mean, I've been in high red marketing 69 00:05:50.040 --> 00:05:54.560 for number of years and you know consistently over at least the less last five 70 00:05:54.639 --> 00:05:58.519 or ten years that whenever you look at the surveys from parents or even just 71 00:05:58.600 --> 00:06:01.480 from from students them solves, they always want to know that return on the 72 00:06:01.519 --> 00:06:04.439 investment. What what is it going to be for the outcome? And I 73 00:06:04.480 --> 00:06:08.959 know that we've talked with Jeff Fanter, used to be the executive vice president, 74 00:06:08.959 --> 00:06:13.000 and I've I've at Ivy Tech here in Indiana, the community college network 75 00:06:13.040 --> 00:06:15.160 he was really pushing outcomes because their data was showing the same thing that a 76 00:06:15.240 --> 00:06:19.839 lot of high school students and even nontraditional adults who are likely to go to 77 00:06:20.040 --> 00:06:25.959 community colleges looking for that outcome data and actually are. We were introduced through 78 00:06:25.959 --> 00:06:29.639 Ethan Braden, a friend of ours from Purdue University that that has been on 79 00:06:29.680 --> 00:06:31.600 the podcast a couple times, and he said, you know, you really 80 00:06:31.639 --> 00:06:35.800 need to talk to to Scott at wabash because they're doing some really great things 81 00:06:35.800 --> 00:06:40.439 with outcomes, and I'm just always fascinated with that because I do think you've 82 00:06:40.480 --> 00:06:45.120 got something there. Is that people want to understand where they're where they're going 83 00:06:45.120 --> 00:06:49.040 to be after this investment, and I think that colleges, especially traditional liberal 84 00:06:49.160 --> 00:06:56.240 arts colleges like wabash. Is Been Easy for us as academics to emphasize learning 85 00:06:56.240 --> 00:07:01.639 for the sake of learning, right the the many benefits that accrue from studying 86 00:07:02.079 --> 00:07:06.079 the liberal arts. But you know, we actually have to make sure that 87 00:07:06.279 --> 00:07:10.839 those of us who are not true believers, those of us who are not 88 00:07:10.920 --> 00:07:17.920 from the inside, we've got to translate this into the objective measures of success 89 00:07:17.959 --> 00:07:24.240 of a college. So we are we think that learned we think a lifelong 90 00:07:24.319 --> 00:07:29.560 love of learning is something that we impart in every student. But I guess 91 00:07:29.560 --> 00:07:32.439 at the end the day we don't maybe lead with that right we lead with 92 00:07:32.560 --> 00:07:40.319 things like graduation rate, first destination rate, salaries, awards that our students 93 00:07:40.480 --> 00:07:44.360 went. Yeah, I think that's interesting because I've also seen a lot of 94 00:07:44.360 --> 00:07:46.600 schools that are making a little bit of a pivot to you know, it's 95 00:07:46.600 --> 00:07:49.680 called kind of story branding, in the idea that you make the student the 96 00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:53.879 hero of the story. Traditionally, I think a lot of time schools try 97 00:07:53.920 --> 00:07:56.519 to make themselves the hero, to say hey, look at us, look 98 00:07:56.519 --> 00:07:59.480 at what we've done, look at our accolades or rankings, and not that 99 00:07:59.480 --> 00:08:01.480 you're doing that at any way. You were actually making this the student, 100 00:08:01.519 --> 00:08:05.560 the hero, by telling them what they can expect out of their out of 101 00:08:05.600 --> 00:08:11.199 their experience. That's exactly right. On Friday I spoke to about a hundred 102 00:08:11.199 --> 00:08:16.160 perspective students at a visit day we had there, and my message to them 103 00:08:16.279 --> 00:08:22.759 was to talk to Babash students, current students, so that they could understand 104 00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:26.000 the trajectory they could be on next year, because we do. We want 105 00:08:26.040 --> 00:08:31.840 the students to imagine themselves as a successful wabash student and that, at the 106 00:08:31.919 --> 00:08:35.159 end of the day, is very important us. We're very proud that we 107 00:08:35.200 --> 00:08:41.799 meet each student where he is and and so the student story is the important 108 00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:46.000 story. The student outcome is the most important story. That's great. Thank 109 00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:52.399 you. Along with outcomes, you also have the philosophy about embracing comparison and 110 00:08:52.440 --> 00:08:56.600 would like to know if you could share that philosophy with our listeners. Yeah, 111 00:08:56.080 --> 00:09:00.440 we've decided we're going to be pretty bold and put this stuff out there. 112 00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:05.519 I think there are it's a crowded market residential liberal arts colleges in the 113 00:09:05.559 --> 00:09:11.679 Midwest where we're located, and we've got to distinguish ourselves from others. So 114 00:09:11.759 --> 00:09:20.360 we emphasize often are are placing rankings, you know, most accessible faculty, 115 00:09:20.399 --> 00:09:26.240 top career center, best athletic facilities, a lot of metrics like that where 116 00:09:26.279 --> 00:09:33.559 you can see wabash ranked among the top colleges in the nation. So and 117 00:09:33.559 --> 00:09:37.320 when we look at something like we look at pay scale and we look at 118 00:09:37.360 --> 00:09:43.879 those salary data, they are incredible on their own, but I think what's 119 00:09:43.960 --> 00:09:48.720 really incredible is to look and see the neighborhood of other colleges that were with. 120 00:09:50.279 --> 00:09:54.720 It's the top colleges in the country and, quite frankly, those colleges 121 00:09:54.759 --> 00:10:00.039 they roll a lot more students who had a pretty good head start in life. 122 00:10:00.279 --> 00:10:05.480 We continue to draw students, lot of pilgrim recipients, lot of first 123 00:10:05.519 --> 00:10:11.279 generation college students. So the fact that our value ad is really high and 124 00:10:11.320 --> 00:10:15.559 we're not afraid to put that up and compare it with another college. We're 125 00:10:15.559 --> 00:10:20.559 also very transparent. All our retention data, all our graduation rate data, 126 00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:26.840 everything about student of factory ratios, you name it. We put pages and 127 00:10:26.879 --> 00:10:31.240 pages of that out there and that we share with people because we're quite friendly. 128 00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:35.279 Were pretty proud and you should be, and I think that that's I 129 00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:39.600 think that would be a good note for our listeners. There's always something that 130 00:10:39.639 --> 00:10:43.360 you can share that's distinctive about your school. You know, we've talked to 131 00:10:43.480 --> 00:10:46.399 here wabashes, a small men's Liberal Arts College, and you can say, 132 00:10:46.480 --> 00:10:50.120 well, you know, they're special because there are men's only. Well, 133 00:10:50.240 --> 00:10:52.320 yes, they are, but that also adds a general that as as some 134 00:10:52.399 --> 00:10:56.360 challenges because you just cut your market place and half. So I think that 135 00:10:56.399 --> 00:11:00.480 one of the things, though, that I'm kind of thinking through. Scott 136 00:11:00.519 --> 00:11:01.720 that you've talked about. That I just want to kind of emphasize a little 137 00:11:01.759 --> 00:11:05.720 bit is this whole nature of really kind of leaning into who you are and 138 00:11:05.759 --> 00:11:09.000 then making the most of it and then you know and then being bold about 139 00:11:09.039 --> 00:11:11.320 that. I mean, I love the fact that you might be the Best 140 00:11:11.320 --> 00:11:15.840 College in America. You kind of claim that and I think that takes some 141 00:11:15.840 --> 00:11:18.080 some hood spot to do that. But I think you also have some things 142 00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:22.600 that you can vary articulately put out there and say this is why we think 143 00:11:22.639 --> 00:11:24.679 so and this is the data that supports it, and I think that I 144 00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:28.200 would really challenge a lot of schools to look at your data and find where 145 00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:33.399 are those places that set you apart from everyone else and try to stop being 146 00:11:33.480 --> 00:11:35.559 the me too in your marketing and start trying to be a little bit more 147 00:11:35.559 --> 00:11:39.320 of this is who we are, and I think you're going to find more 148 00:11:39.320 --> 00:11:41.919 mission fit students because they want to, they're drawn to the places that they 149 00:11:41.960 --> 00:11:46.879 want to be. Yes, certainly we are looking for the mission fit students. 150 00:11:46.919 --> 00:11:48.519 You know, Bart, when you say we, when we describe ourselves 151 00:11:48.559 --> 00:11:52.200 as Liberal Arts College for men, now we lose a lot more than half 152 00:11:52.200 --> 00:11:56.360 of the market with that state backly. Yeah, all right, we definitely 153 00:11:56.399 --> 00:12:01.919 lose sixty percent at least of the Liberal Arts College market. And then the 154 00:12:01.919 --> 00:12:05.000 fact is that a single sex college is not whatever the experience. Everyone is 155 00:12:05.039 --> 00:12:11.080 looking for. So we're going after a particular student who is driven, who 156 00:12:11.159 --> 00:12:16.440 wants to get somewhere, and so that's why I think our comparative approach to 157 00:12:16.519 --> 00:12:22.159 marketing fins so well with who we are. We're also very competitive here. 158 00:12:22.200 --> 00:12:26.840 So we're celebrating on this campus last week. Are Wrestling team play second in 159 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:31.039 the nation and division three and our basketball team played the final four. This 160 00:12:31.080 --> 00:12:37.120 place is competitive. That's part of in our DNA. So what we tell 161 00:12:37.240 --> 00:12:41.600 students is we're going to compare with others. We tell students you're going to 162 00:12:41.679 --> 00:12:45.559 learn more, you're going to earn more, you're going to lead more and 163 00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:50.320 you're going to play more. And so that's our that's our promise to students 164 00:12:50.360 --> 00:12:52.080 and, as you say, we work. We work hard to back it 165 00:12:52.200 --> 00:12:56.799 up. Yeah, well, being a alumni of Anderson University, I can 166 00:12:56.879 --> 00:13:00.879 attest to the competitiveness because we always played wabash in in football. I was 167 00:13:00.919 --> 00:13:03.960 not on the team, but I was in the stands cheering during those games. 168 00:13:03.960 --> 00:13:09.600 So that was that's exciting. Scott. A conversation that I've had the 169 00:13:09.639 --> 00:13:15.759 privilege of being privy to that Bart has with schools is for liberal arts colleges 170 00:13:15.919 --> 00:13:22.000 to really realize who the real competition is, and it might not necessarily be 171 00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:26.360 the other liberal arts colleges around you. Well, like to know your thoughts 172 00:13:26.360 --> 00:13:31.720 about that and your approach to the school saying who you consider is your competition. 173 00:13:33.399 --> 00:13:35.600 Yeah, try, you're exactly right. You know, we we have 174 00:13:35.639 --> 00:13:41.759 some crossover with the Paul and early for example, but that is dwarfed by 175 00:13:41.840 --> 00:13:50.320 our crossover applications with Purdue University and Indiana University. The competition is about drawing 176 00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:56.000 students to private residential colleges away from, you know, let's say, the 177 00:13:56.759 --> 00:14:03.639 familiar names, the the large are one flagships in their state. In Indiana 178 00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:11.120 that happens to be particularly tough competition because in Purdue University in Indiana University we 179 00:14:11.159 --> 00:14:15.840 really are competing against two very strong flagships and we know it. But when 180 00:14:15.919 --> 00:14:18.960 we go out of state, when we go to Texas again, we're not 181 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:24.759 necessarily competing with a Texas Liberal Arts College. Were more likely competing with the 182 00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:33.759 University of Texas at Austin were competing with, you know, university Texas southwest. 183 00:14:33.879 --> 00:14:37.480 So that for us is we know that's where we lose the students. 184 00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:43.759 We have to differentiate the college experience here. We think that we're in a 185 00:14:43.799 --> 00:14:48.840 great position to differentiate that, but we also know we have to work really 186 00:14:48.879 --> 00:14:54.000 hard to get people's attention perdue and I you have such great built in ways 187 00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:58.679 to grab a student's attention. You know, if I could be on ESPN 188 00:14:58.759 --> 00:15:03.639 game a day, everyone's blow, I think I'd feel pretty good about our 189 00:15:03.720 --> 00:15:07.799 jets is with seventy year old young men. But that's all the way the 190 00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:11.600 worlds. That's right and I think I think you're so right in that because, 191 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:15.399 I mean, I've often told a lot of my clients who are small 192 00:15:15.440 --> 00:15:18.120 faith based institutions here in Indiana. I know you can drive up interstate sixty 193 00:15:18.200 --> 00:15:22.399 nine and hit five or six schools that maybe appear to be similar. They're 194 00:15:22.480 --> 00:15:26.720 very different, but I've often told them that you're not competing a guest one 195 00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:28.919 another. You might cross APP with each other, but at the end of 196 00:15:28.919 --> 00:15:31.799 the day you're competing against, you know, the the state schools, and 197 00:15:31.879 --> 00:15:35.039 sometimes you're even a competing against life itself. More and more students are looking 198 00:15:35.039 --> 00:15:41.600 at gap years. More and more students and families are considering other creative ways 199 00:15:41.960 --> 00:15:45.200 of looking at it because, I mean, you know, let's be honest, 200 00:15:45.480 --> 00:15:50.200 even though schools make it affordable for students, the public, many times, 201 00:15:50.279 --> 00:15:58.120 especially Firstgen students and pell grant recipient family households don't quite understand how everything 202 00:15:58.159 --> 00:16:02.200 works, with with discount rates, with with scholarships, with financial aid, 203 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:04.720 with grants, and so I think that part of it is recognizing who the 204 00:16:04.759 --> 00:16:10.799 true competition is and many times that's just life itself and and what I would 205 00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:15.440 consider a little bit of just Nativity with with some of the families that they 206 00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:18.879 just don't understand and they think I could never afford a private college because that 207 00:16:18.919 --> 00:16:22.759 sounds elite and expensive. I'm going to have to go either to a public 208 00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:26.759 school or to a community college. How do you address those types of questions? 209 00:16:26.799 --> 00:16:30.960 You know what I talked with the family. I trying to share with 210 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:34.840 them that we offer an elite education without any elitism. Right. We want 211 00:16:34.919 --> 00:16:40.440 to bring everybody to the table. So we've worked really hard at a couple 212 00:16:40.440 --> 00:16:44.879 of things. Transparency and financial aid is one of the ways that we go 213 00:16:44.919 --> 00:16:49.519 about we're very straightforward. With an Indiana student WHO's a pell grant recipient, 214 00:16:49.600 --> 00:16:55.200 for example, of He's been receiving free introduced lunch. He's going to receive 215 00:16:55.240 --> 00:16:57.679 pell grant, he's going to receive a grant from the State of Indiana and 216 00:16:57.720 --> 00:17:03.480 Wabash is going to write off the rest of the tuition with scholarship. So 217 00:17:03.639 --> 00:17:07.200 we say that from day one you're admitted to Wabash College, tuition is covered, 218 00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:11.319 and so that's been a big part of our messaging, as well as 219 00:17:11.319 --> 00:17:18.119 emphasizing our net price calculator or people can find out what the cost it is 220 00:17:18.119 --> 00:17:22.400 is going to be. I don't know what the answer is in terms of 221 00:17:22.400 --> 00:17:29.640 a sticker price versus the net price and the depth counting I feel that are. 222 00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:33.839 I guess I like our net price because it reflects how much we spend 223 00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:37.319 on students. Yeah, and that's not true in every college, but if 224 00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:42.160 you take our college's budgets, around forty five million dollars and you divided it 225 00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:48.839 by eight hundred eight under fifty students, you get our staker price. Now. 226 00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:52.440 Now the fact is that our students are paying a fraction of that because 227 00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:59.079 of philanthropy. You know that our students are typically, if they have any 228 00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:02.640 kind of financial lead, they're not really going to pay much more here than 229 00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:06.680 they would to go to produce or I you, because the this college runs 230 00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:11.680 on philanthropy. But admittedly it took me a long time to explain that in 231 00:18:11.720 --> 00:18:18.519 this podcast. It's not a sound bite, it's it involves developing a relationship 232 00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:22.079 with a family and and trying to explain it. So I wish there was 233 00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:30.440 a slogan that would help people see through the fog of scholarship and pricing. 234 00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:34.680 But on the other hand I want people to know this is an elite education. 235 00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:41.160 Somebody is going to spend more than Fiftyzero on your education at Wabash. 236 00:18:41.319 --> 00:18:45.480 Around two thirds of that is going to come for our alumni and friends in 237 00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:51.279 philanthropy, either the accumulated philanthropy of our endowment or hand you will give it 238 00:18:51.400 --> 00:18:56.079 right. So that's the tricky one. How do I explain to people this 239 00:18:56.119 --> 00:19:00.680 college is different? We're going to invest in you like no one else and 240 00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:04.000 and someone that you don't know is going to slap down two dollars for every 241 00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:07.359 one dollar that you and your family bring to the table. I love that 242 00:19:07.480 --> 00:19:10.880 right there at the very end. I think that's great and I think also 243 00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:14.440 just it plays in so well to your alumni. I mean you talked about 244 00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:18.920 that earlier, how that alumni network and and the job placement in the in 245 00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:22.839 the you know, the you know after the outcomes with things. I mean 246 00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:26.759 you've got alumni that are engaged with your students even before they even set foot 247 00:19:26.839 --> 00:19:29.759 on campus because of of all of this, and I think that's just a 248 00:19:29.759 --> 00:19:33.319 one full story. A few years ago, at the breakfast before graduation, 249 00:19:33.400 --> 00:19:37.920 I address the students and I asked the students to stand if a Wabash, 250 00:19:37.960 --> 00:19:42.000 a lamb, had been part of their process to get to Wallbash. Every 251 00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:48.000 single student who wasn't an international student stood up at that breakfast. That's great. 252 00:19:48.039 --> 00:19:52.799 That's that's really great. We talked a lot about it on the show. 253 00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:57.200 Schools are really struggling today to make the same ads been work. Cepms 254 00:19:57.200 --> 00:20:02.440 are up eighty nine percent you over year. On facebook and Instagram, our 255 00:20:02.440 --> 00:20:06.920 college clients are no longer looking for rented audiences. They're looking for an owned 256 00:20:06.920 --> 00:20:11.400 community where they can engage students even before they apply. This is why Zeemi 257 00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:15.880 has become so crucial for our clients. With over one million students, close 258 00:20:15.960 --> 00:20:19.960 to tenzero five star ratings, consistently ranked as one of the top social laps 259 00:20:19.960 --> 00:20:23.880 and recently one of apples hot APPs of the week, there is simply isn't 260 00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:27.400 anything out there like it, and we have seen it all. Zeemi not 261 00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:32.680 only provides the best space for student engagement, but the most unique in action 262 00:20:32.720 --> 00:20:37.079 will data for their one hundred and sixty college and university partners. We know 263 00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:41.279 firsthand from our clients that Zee me is a must have strategy for Gen Z. 264 00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:48.880 Check them out now at colleges dot Zee mecom. That's colleges dot Zee 265 00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:56.240 m eecom. And yes, tell them Barton Troy sent you. Scott. 266 00:20:56.279 --> 00:21:00.839 Being a all men's college, would like to know if you've heard heard of 267 00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:06.160 the where are the men or where the men are and, if you have, 268 00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:11.799 with the shortage of men going and participating in higher education, how you 269 00:21:11.839 --> 00:21:15.599 are responding as a college or how you address that. Would like to hear 270 00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:19.039 your thoughts and approaches to that. You can't be the president of Walbash College 271 00:21:19.160 --> 00:21:25.960 without having people send you every editorial and news story about where are the men. 272 00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:30.880 So I wish I wasn't quite so familiar with that literature and I think 273 00:21:30.920 --> 00:21:37.400 I'd say two things. First is often when we disaggregate the data on men's 274 00:21:37.480 --> 00:21:41.640 college attendance, what we see is that there is a substantial part of that 275 00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:48.759 loss that's happening in community colleges, for example, and is not directly relevant 276 00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:55.039 to Wabash College. But even in the private residential college sphere, on most 277 00:21:55.119 --> 00:22:02.400 campuses women outnumber men. So our response to it is again to double down 278 00:22:02.440 --> 00:22:07.079 on who we are where a college for men. Everybody here is focused on 279 00:22:07.160 --> 00:22:15.039 young men's success and getting them to a graduation and getting them to a job. 280 00:22:15.160 --> 00:22:21.119 So what we can offer is perhaps an antidote to the observation that young 281 00:22:21.160 --> 00:22:26.000 men are not thriving in higher education. Then come to Walbash college and this 282 00:22:26.119 --> 00:22:30.279 is the one place that that's completely committed to you on been thriving. If 283 00:22:30.359 --> 00:22:34.039 you women don't thrive at Wabash, you know there is no future for Wabash 284 00:22:34.079 --> 00:22:42.680 College. We produced graduates, because graduates are who primarily funds our philanthropy. 285 00:22:44.119 --> 00:22:49.519 Like to tell the perspective students that the relationship between a student and the college 286 00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:56.480 is a little different at wabash. It's not transactional we are necessarily looking for 287 00:22:56.599 --> 00:23:02.240 your tuition check right. We're looking for you to come and have a great 288 00:23:02.279 --> 00:23:07.599 experience and a decade down the road, for you to give back Philanth philanthropically, 289 00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:12.720 for you to complete that virtuous cycle. So I'm on the hook to 290 00:23:12.839 --> 00:23:18.559 give every student a great experience and you know they we don't just cash people's 291 00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:23.880 check and and have them walk away, because we lose money on every student. 292 00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:29.920 We've got to produce graduates, because the payoff for Wabash college it's not 293 00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:33.680 the tuition that comes in in the fall, it's the philanthropy that comes in. 294 00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:37.400 Your wrath. Great. That's very good and I think that that's so 295 00:23:37.480 --> 00:23:41.599 important that even there, I think a lot of other schools could learn from 296 00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:48.000 that because I think that it is important to create that experience. Not only 297 00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:52.000 will that produce retention, because I mean, I think a lot of schools 298 00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:55.759 fall into the trap of, and Nate Simpson from the gates foundation made a 299 00:23:55.759 --> 00:23:59.400 comment on one of the podcasts, that we work so hard to recruit them 300 00:23:59.400 --> 00:24:02.759 and then we when we hand them off to student life, we just hope 301 00:24:02.799 --> 00:24:06.279 they do well and we don't do much beyond that. And especially at risk 302 00:24:06.319 --> 00:24:10.039 groups like first Gen and pel grant recipients. I think that we need to 303 00:24:10.039 --> 00:24:12.440 do a little extra work and I'm so encouraged to hear the work that Wabash 304 00:24:12.519 --> 00:24:15.759 is doing, not only because it's the right thing to do and it helps 305 00:24:15.799 --> 00:24:18.720 with three tension, but also it's going to it's going to build that legacy 306 00:24:18.799 --> 00:24:22.000 for the future. I mean you're talking about, you know, generation Alpha, 307 00:24:22.119 --> 00:24:26.079 the kids that are under eleven years old, are going to benefit from 308 00:24:26.319 --> 00:24:30.559 the senior that's in in Wabash right now that in another six seven years might 309 00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:34.359 start giving to the annual fund that's going to impact that generation Alpha student, 310 00:24:34.440 --> 00:24:38.200 and so I really love the way that that works at Wabash. Yeah, 311 00:24:38.440 --> 00:24:44.440 we're trying to be very intentional about that cycle. So my Luve's time meeting 312 00:24:44.559 --> 00:24:51.119 today was with a foundation that provides US substantial financial aid for Indiana students and 313 00:24:51.160 --> 00:24:55.480 we had twenty nine of our students there who are recipients of these awards to 314 00:24:55.480 --> 00:25:00.880 meet the folks that run this foundation, and that was as much we obviously 315 00:25:00.920 --> 00:25:04.680 we wanted the foundation to see the results of their philanthropy. But when I 316 00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:11.200 address the students, I asked them to for them to reflect on how philanthropy 317 00:25:11.319 --> 00:25:17.640 is affecting them so that down the road they'll understand. Okay, yeah, 318 00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:19.480 well, I stu did a lot for me. I'm going to find a 319 00:25:19.519 --> 00:25:23.720 way to support Wallbash. God, that's Great. That's very good. We 320 00:25:23.799 --> 00:25:30.119 wind every episode of the podcast up with a question to our guests and it's 321 00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:34.880 if they have something, an idea, anything that they would like to share 322 00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:40.559 that could be impactful for our listeners soon after, maybe even immediately. Do 323 00:25:40.599 --> 00:25:42.279 you have something that you can share as we pose that question to you, 324 00:25:42.359 --> 00:25:47.359 Scott, I do. I'm going to I'm going to use something and bartment 325 00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:51.279 reference to it at the very beginning. I think the message is you've got 326 00:25:51.319 --> 00:25:55.079 to be bold. Okay, I think the most college leaders, and I 327 00:25:55.119 --> 00:25:59.400 count myself among them, you know, come up through the academy, where 328 00:25:59.440 --> 00:26:04.720 we tend to getting it right tends to take precedence over getting the work done 329 00:26:04.839 --> 00:26:11.400 quickly, right and making an impact. I think also academics, you know, 330 00:26:11.519 --> 00:26:15.759 we also always often assume our work stands on its own, but the 331 00:26:15.759 --> 00:26:21.799 fact is, students and families want to know what makes you great right. 332 00:26:22.119 --> 00:26:26.920 They don't want to have to figure out how is wabash different from de Paul 333 00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:33.000 or how is wabash different from perdue? So I think be bold, differentiate. 334 00:26:33.039 --> 00:26:37.880 These are the things that your families need to hear so that they can 335 00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:44.160 understand. Don't expect them to figure out what the outcome is a great liberal 336 00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:48.880 artification. tellent to thank you, Scott. Well said. How would one 337 00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:52.880 get in touch with you if, after listening to the PODCAST, they would 338 00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:56.960 like to reach out? Oh, the easiest way as email me and president 339 00:26:56.039 --> 00:27:00.240 at Wabash doted. You go to the wabash email noll or what they slip 340 00:27:00.279 --> 00:27:03.720 page, you can find my phone number, but President at wall based, 341 00:27:03.759 --> 00:27:07.480 I need to use a great way to reach out. Thank you, Scott. 342 00:27:07.559 --> 00:27:10.920 Thank you for your time and thank you for the wisdom that you were 343 00:27:11.079 --> 00:27:15.279 so generous with today. Bart, any last comments or thoughts from you? 344 00:27:15.839 --> 00:27:19.119 Yeah, I just want to kind of pull back and kind of you highlight 345 00:27:19.160 --> 00:27:22.640 a couple things at Scott said that I think is really important for audience to 346 00:27:22.759 --> 00:27:26.480 walk away with. And I really love the fact that Wabash has done such 347 00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:30.279 a great job of leaning into the distinctiveness that they bring to the market place 348 00:27:30.279 --> 00:27:32.880 and I think that every school can do that. You don't have to. 349 00:27:33.039 --> 00:27:37.039 You don't have to have a special everybody has a special element. You have 350 00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:38.759 to discover that, figure that out and be able to start promoting that, 351 00:27:38.839 --> 00:27:41.720 and so I would really encourage you to do that. Once you understand what 352 00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:45.240 that distinctiveness is, be bold in that. You know, don't don't hide 353 00:27:45.279 --> 00:27:49.559 it, don't don't apologize for it. Lead with it and lead well with 354 00:27:49.599 --> 00:27:52.559 it, because I think that that's going to allow you to start comparing yourselves 355 00:27:52.599 --> 00:27:57.599 and contrasting yourself to other options and it's also going to give you that value 356 00:27:57.640 --> 00:28:00.200 add that, you know, somebody looks at and says, I think I 357 00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:04.319 need that, and I think I would also really applaud wabash and Scott on 358 00:28:04.359 --> 00:28:08.279 this legacy building that they do from day one, even at even in the 359 00:28:08.519 --> 00:28:11.720 you know, as he mentioned, he had the prospective students on campus recently 360 00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:15.160 and had them stand up on those who were influenced by alumni, and a 361 00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:18.640 lot of them were doing that. Don't take your alumni for granted if your 362 00:28:18.680 --> 00:28:22.480 marketing doesn't include your alumni and you're not talking with them and you're not building 363 00:28:22.519 --> 00:28:26.799 a relationship with them, and all they hear from you as the annual gift, 364 00:28:26.799 --> 00:28:29.880 you know, bell go off in November. Be Sure you're doing more 365 00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:33.880 more with your alumni. Make it friend building rather than fundraising. It's a 366 00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:36.960 friend friend raising, I think it's what they call it, rather than fundraising. 367 00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:38.880 You have to do both. And so you know, a smaller school 368 00:28:38.920 --> 00:28:44.640 like wabash that you have, you know, not as big alumni network, 369 00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:48.559 but even if you're alumni network is really big. I'm sure Wabash is living 370 00:28:48.559 --> 00:28:52.680 in alumni network is in the T s. If you have more than that 371 00:28:52.759 --> 00:28:56.519 or if you have less, it's something that's worth doing and something to kind 372 00:28:56.559 --> 00:28:59.599 of take to your marketing team and figure out ways that you can kind of 373 00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:03.440 stay in front of that to build those legacies of not only enrollment but philanthropy 374 00:29:03.559 --> 00:29:07.079 going forward. So thank you, Scott. This was a great conversation and 375 00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:12.200 thank you, Bart for bringing us to a very powerful but soft landing. 376 00:29:12.279 --> 00:29:18.160 The hired Marker podcast is sponsored by Kaylor solutions and education marketing and branding agency 377 00:29:18.680 --> 00:29:25.559 and by thing patented, a Marketing Execution Company specializing and bringing customization, in 378 00:29:25.720 --> 00:29:30.400 personalization, to your outreach. On behalf of Bart Taylor, the cohost, 379 00:29:30.440 --> 00:29:37.400 I'm troy singer. Thank you for joining us. You've been listening to the 380 00:29:37.519 --> 00:29:41.880 higher at marketer. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to 381 00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:47.640 the show in your favorite podcast player. If you're listening with apple PODCASTS, 382 00:29:47.680 --> 00:29:51.200 we'd love for you to leave a quick rating of the show. Simply tap 383 00:29:51.240 --> 00:29:53.960 the number of stars you think the podcast deserves. Until next time,